hate list

[_____________OmniEnf]

The main change in the 13.0 patch is that doc team heals now cause aggro. This usually leads to dead docs. However, I find that this is mostly due to bad habits by the tanks.

I play a mid level enforcer, and I've found that I can control who the mobs target by using aggression enhancers (use a high ql one, I suggest something at least ql100). In extreme cases, Mongo Slam or other taunt nanos provide emergency backup.

Very often, when in a group with other tanks, I seldom see any indication of taunting (no blue aggro message floating up from the mob). Considering that the aggression enhancer has a recycle time of 3 seconds, it means that most tanks just don't taunt.

Instead the common tactic is to beat on the mob while the mob is beating on the doc. Hoping that the damage dealt will pull it off the doc. That tactic unfortunately no longer works.

So all I can suggest is if you play a doc and get into a team in which the tanks don't taunt, that you quickly leave before you get killed by an aggroing mob.

[Letah]

I think you have a valid point there, but not many people are as good as you say.

Also this does not solve the 'aggro on sight' while we didnt do anything yet. I cant wander aroun in mutie camp alone without getting aggrod by them, thats the weird thing.

Please also check a parallel thread made by me a while ago:
http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...=&threadid=288

[Megabio]

Also, those long lasting HoTs that buff HP (ex: Collosul health).. They cause aggroes as well.

Also. One of the biggest issues is that any heal, no matter (Tested and proven) how big/small, the MOB will aggro depending on the volume.

A doc can cast Close Wounds and be aggroed, and then he can cast Improved Health (the doc's opening nano) and get aggroed just the same.

THAT I bleieve, is a problem.
~Chris

[________Transcendent]

Originally posted by dfield
point 1: perfect mob AI would go after the healers first and use the mob's most powerful attacks on them all at once.

This is EXACTLY what happens in PvP (doc is highest up on every pvper's kill list, especially in mass pvp.)

It's also what happens in PvM when fighting a doc mob and say, an enf or soldier mob. Kill the doc first if you want tokill both mobs.

point 2: having the mob go after the doc so harshly makes grouping with a doc very tough and nearly pointless. While it makes good sense to kill the healer first, PvM is already hard enough. You don't need to make it harder.

Well.. perfect mob AI you say. Let me specify... what you ment to say was "if animals had human intelligence". See.. now that sentence makes perfect sense. But the thing is, not all creatures are equaly bright. And there is no real reason for them to attack the one that heals, as healing would be, for most instinct driven organisms, an unknown fenomena. What would be logical would be to attack the one percived as the biggest physical threath, which is how normal animals behave.

What they could have done was to say some of the mobs had mutated and then change the hate list of some mobs of the chosen type. And as they from a darwinistic point of view would have a better chance of survival, the ones with healer on the hatelist could start to appear more and more often. Could have made a nice little additional plotline

[Enkal]

As a NT I mostly get aggro and I usually pull aggro from the docs.
The biggest problem I've seen is that ppl aren't interested in crowd control, they go for the first mob they see and are confident that the doc will save them.

In a good team you root/calm a few, and work on a single mob at a time. Then heal up and attack another of the calmed ones and the nt should keep an eye out for the other calms and refresh as necessary.

If the doc in the group can't shake aggro, tell the nt in the group to calm it or anyone with a root to root it, problem solved!

Use the full extent of your nano lines to be effective. I've just recently started using my blind nano line. They are great.

On a side note: I've never been asked to be in so many teams as now. NT's are good now, sometimes as vital as a doc in a team.

So whoever say that nts are gimped, try using all your nano skills and not only MC!


// Enlil

[______________Jaakka]

Originally posted by OmniEnf
The main change in the 13.0 patch is that doc team heals now cause aggro. This usually leads to dead docs. However, I find that this is mostly due to bad habits by the tanks.

I play a mid level enforcer, and I've found that I can control who the mobs target by using aggression enhancers (use a high ql one, I suggest something at least ql100). In extreme cases, Mongo Slam or other taunt nanos provide emergency backup.

Very often, when in a group with other tanks, I seldom see any indication of taunting (no blue aggro message floating up from the mob). Considering that the aggression enhancer has a recycle time of 3 seconds, it means that most tanks just don't taunt.

Instead the common tactic is to beat on the mob while the mob is beating on the doc. Hoping that the damage dealt will pull it off the doc. That tactic unfortunately no longer works.

So all I can suggest is if you play a doc and get into a team in which the tanks don't taunt, that you quickly leave before you get killed by an aggroing mob.

This is really a good point. It often seems as the "tanks" in a group just build their characters to deal/take damage in ingle player mode. If you want to be a tank, you´ll have to get aggression enhancers (ever wondered just WHY enforcers have gren psychology skill?) and taunt nanos (both regular and Mongo), all of these add up on aggro (I believe so, one high level enforcer who really seemed to know his business told me so).
Make sure it´s a competent tank in your group the next time, not just some "hammers hit hard"-guy playing the enforcer.

On the other hand, the latest patch has really pushed aggro over the limit, not just for docs in groups. I died four (4!) times today trying to get to mission caves in Galway County. Their surroundings were hoarded by either Mantezes or Scorpiods/Bloodcreepers. Once i got aggroed by five (5!) mobs at the same time while trying to enter Galway Private Trove (most of whom I thought were a safe distance away...), now how´s that for aggro?

[______________Sielar]

There are several mezmerize lines in game. However, mez in AO does not work exactly like mez in EQ, so a lot of people think of it as worthless. In fact, it does work better than the EQ mez, with a trade-off.

When you mez a mob, it might get off 1 or two more attacks, but it will stop attacking if and only if you stop attacking it. As long as you do not attack the mob, it will not attack you.

Additionally, the mob will forget that you ever attacked it. Yes, that's right, a memory wipe. And it's memory will not be restored unless you attack it again.

Even more, I've seen normally aggressive mobs become completely unaggressive. For example, I could mez a rolloerrat and when the mez wears off, the rat will just wander off and forget I'm even there.

The trade-off, while the mez is in effect, the mob will follow the last player it was attacking. This gives the illusion that the mob is still attacking. Panicky players will attack such mezzed mobs and break the mez spell.

How to use mez --

1. Focus your teams attacks on one mob by using assist. Any mavericks in the group will ruin the effect. Beware of Agents and MAs that think they will save the tank some damage by taking a mob.

2. Whoever is on crowd control should focus on getting the add on mobs mezzed.

3. If a mob aggros on the team doc, mez it and wipe the hate list. This will only work if the doc stops attacking.

4. Don't panic. The AO mez lines are designed to trick you into panicking. If you panic, you will end up breaking the mez.

[_____________Garnock]

I use project calm the very same way. I had to explain to my team multiple times to not attack the mob after I calm it.


Once people understand the way another class works/plays, they all reap the rewards of it. As it stands, I just don't mess with my calm while in a group. Most of them just want to keep shooting until it's dead, and that is the quickest way in the world to get your doc dead.

Most of the time, a bit more caution and planning makes for much more xp than brainless bashing. (No offense to those Atrox out there )


Garnock

[Cosmik]

Originally posted by Zephora
I tried healing last night and the very instant I clicked "team heal" I was aggroed by every mob in the 60m vicinity. The rest of the group tried very hard to pull them off - we even had another doctor in the group, poor thing cast a target heal on me to help and then BAM, both docs are now the tanks while the team tries in vain to kill the mobs before they kill the docs. I was rolling on the floor laughing at the sheer over-exagguration of this "hate list" thingy. I mean c'mon, the ONLY TWO getting attacked were both docs?! Silly, so silly. I could be wrong here, this could all be a case of massive group bad luck hysteria, but the docs sure seem to be getting a raw deal here. Of course, to be fair, so are a lot of other classes.

------
Zeph
www.aorealms.com

Right now, at this exact point in time, I can say we are looking into the hate list and the effect it has on Doctors. Now, I did notice quite a few players welcoming the changes. That's great. I love to hear that. But I also noticed there were some problems Doctors had, especially with team heals. The designers might consider adjusting the system so this "I'll just cast team heal and save my team...oh MY..NO NO NO!! GET EM OFF ME!!!" effect is changed. As I said, it's something to look into, and we've been gathering information on what's been going on. I'll keep you guys updated as to what happens.

As for those that liked the changes, I'm glad. Puts some more skill and strategy into the game, yes?

[____________Greystar]

Originally posted by Cosmik

As for those that liked the changes, I'm glad. Puts some more skill and strategy into the game, yes?

I sure like it, now that the damage is taken into account like it should be, my fixer who always deals the lowest damage in the group rarely if ever gets aggroed anymore, really easy now for me

[Megabio]

Originally posted by Cosmik


As for those that liked the changes, I'm glad. Puts some more skill and strategy into the game, yes?

Speak for yourself and your level 43 Crat... Level 43 isn't what one would called able to judge high level gameplay..
~Chris

[______________Nianna]

As a Trader, the new aggro on team heals makes it much harder and deadlier to heal, but its still possible if the spawn isn't terribly higher in level than my team because I have defensive mechanisms (area root, distract) to deal with monsters coming after me. I can only imagine what it must like for Doctors now. They have no defensive mechanisms, so when 3 monsters come at them I have a feeling they just die. That's not fun. I can't imagine wanting to play a Doctor under such circumstances.

[Cosmik]

Originally posted by Megabio

Speak for yourself and your level 43 Crat... Level 43 isn't what one would called able to judge high level gameplay..
~Chris

Sorry? My level 43 Crat? I don't have a level 43 Crat.

[______________Lictor]

Originally posted by Nianna
As a Trader, the new aggro on team heals makes it much harder and deadlier to heal, but its still possible if the spawn isn't terribly higher in level than my team because I have defensive mechanisms (area root, distract) to deal with monsters coming after me. I can only imagine what it must like for Doctors now. They have no defensive mechanisms, so when 3 monsters come at them I have a feeling they just die. That's not fun. I can't imagine wanting to play a Doctor under such circumstances.

Well, that's why a team is not a tank+a doc+random damage dealers... The tank should have the best aggro enhancer. You have to add a good puller to that (ie, the team is *far* from the spawn points, and the puller brings MOBs one by one). You also have to add crowd control (Traders, Crats). Like, how long does it take to a couple of Traders to mezz/root the 3 MOBs coming after the doc?

[Megabio]

Originally posted by Cosmik


Sorry? My level 43 Crat? I don't have a level 43 Crat.

But you said in a post that you had everything from a level 9 doctor to a level 43 crat.. or is that what the entire PR group has? /me shudders
~Chris

[__________WGMelchior]

Having an AI that goes after the healer first would be all fine, if it weren't for some small facts.

1. Mobs can run through players. This prevents us to actually bodyguard the healer.

2. Mobs can shoot through players. This prevents us to block off shots (Essentially the same as 1.).

3. Mobs always know everything about players. You can't disguise a doc, even if she/he doesn't do anything that reveals their profession.

4. Mobs never panic. If they would, they might go after that big enforcer pounding at them. I wouldn't try to run past 5 people who are trying to kill me just to get to their healer.


And, since you group to kill mobs a bit stronger than each individual, agressors aren't going to do *that* much.