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Thread: MP LOVE THREAD (Dont Let this Die Out)

  1. #21
    The most important thing like Bio said is probably the lack of defensive ability. If those pets are such a personal manifestation of the caster, why not have a line of nanos that allows the attack pet to absorb some damage done to the MP. It could either be a short duration nano similar to the TMS or NS, or a longer duration like RRFE. At later levels give MP's something similar to Slayerdroid Transference, to turn them into a big demon. Personally, the idea of an engineer turning themselves into a bot sounds hokey, it seems like something much more suited for a metaphysicist.

    Or just make the heal pets heal more. I guess that would be simpler, just not as cool ^_^
    Isisnorfret RK1 - Main

  2. #22
    I like the suggestion of some sort of short term nano (like nullity and TMS) that redirects damage to the attack pet.

    The stronger heal pet - while it would help a lot in PvM - wouldn't really solve the major defensive issue in PvP which is that the world and his brother can calm/root/snare/charm/scare the heal pets making us extremely vulnerable.

    X
    Xtremtech: MetaPhysicist currently resident on Test. (209 + 21 AI Levels).

    Various other test MPs of differing levels and builds available.

  3. #23
    True Xtrem, that really needs to be addressed as well. I'd like to see the psychology checks on fear/charm nanos, and the nano resist checks on roots, apply to the pet owner. That would give the MP a way to protect herself, without totally negating the usefulness of those nanos against pets in PvP.
    Isisnorfret RK1 - Main

  4. #24
    Sandrix,

    Just for balance it's important to note that in particular the Psychic checks on the scares/charms are a bit broken right now... we have to assume that they get 'fixed' in some way so that they represent more useful tools for the than they are right now.

    Still your point about having some kind of defence is an excellent one. Much of the frustration that pet owners feel is due to the fact that they have no control over how weak/strong their pets are in these regards. We often see suggestions that pets should inherit nano-resist or other skills levels from their owner. We also see requests for pet buffs to improve their characteristics and so on. All of these are an expression of the desire that the pet owner has some kind of defensive steps they can take to reduce the risks of their pets being disabled.

    I think all pet owners would happily invest skills, nano or whatever it would take in order to be able to at the very least improve their pets' ability to resist the nanos that disable them.

    X
    Xtremtech: MetaPhysicist currently resident on Test. (209 + 21 AI Levels).

    Various other test MPs of differing levels and builds available.

  5. #25
    b00mp
    Archelan, Ancarim Iron Legion

    Vandreren (Adventurer) - Arctech (Engineer) - Egori (Fixer) - Sherringham (Bureaucrat) - Kurtwood (Trader)

  6. #26
    yea, it isn't good that we are defenseless without our pets. Low HP makes us in dire need of the healer all the time.
    Same with quite few other professions. And you ain't anymore defenseless then NTs are all the time...they don't have pets to start with. At least you got a heal pet to give some additional coverage. You also got nukes/abilty to wear a weapon that does additional damage. You got pretty nice nanos to cover debuffing area...all you really miss are roots/clams/snares.

    But I must say that some improvements, or even some new stuff for us (Mp's) would be welcome. We haven't had any "love" in a long while now...
    There are still professions that are in more dire need of attention. However, I agree that MPs should not left in the corner either.

  7. #27
    And you ain't anymore defenseless then NTs are all the time
    Ummm... NTs have nullity, layers, AC buffs with HP buff, roots, calms with big init debuffs, blinds, stuns with dmg and shorter recharge, better evades buff, nanoskills debuffs etc. Crats have roots, mezzes with big init debuffs, snares, AoE versions of the crowd control stuff, demotivational speeches, stuns, big DMS buffs in the motivational speeches etc. Docs have massive init/dmg debuffs and great heals. Engis have AC buffs, Reflect AC buffs, Specials shields, AoE Blinds, AoE snares round bot, AC reducing auras etc.

    Which profession did you think has a worse defence against weapons users?

    MPs have.... ummm.... a damage init debuff that removes 37 dmg plus a bit off weapons inits, a short duration stun that kills our ability to nuke/debuff because of its massive recharge and a small evades buff. Oh - and in theory we have the creation weapons that give a tiny buff to AC plus a bit of DMS or HP... but we have to sacrifice our real weapon to use them and they do so little damage (melee at that lol) that they really aren't an option in PvP. We have a Psychosis pet of course that has no effect in PvP and just doesn't work in PvM (and never has worked according to FC).

    So that leaves us with the Heal Pet... which in PvP can be calmed/rooted/snared/mezzed/scared/initdebuffed by just about every single other profession in the game - except the soldier I think. Everybody else can take it out of action more or less. Once the heal pet is out of action in PvP we have no heal, no AC buffs, No reflect buffs, No HP buff, no emergency nullity/evac, no decent init debuff, no root, no calm, no snare, no blind, no DMS buff, No crit reduction aura, no specials shield.... nothing.

    Oh and did I mention we have the worst weapons skills in the game?

    That's the issue being highlighted here. If you'd like to suggest a profession that has less defences against weapons users - please do.

    X
    Last edited by XtremTech; Jan 8th, 2003 at 13:53:06.
    Xtremtech: MetaPhysicist currently resident on Test. (209 + 21 AI Levels).

    Various other test MPs of differing levels and builds available.

  8. #28
    Originally posted by XtremTech

    Ummm... NTs have nullity, layers, AC buffs with HP buff, roots, calms with big init debuffs, blinds, stuns with dmg and shorter recharge, better evades buff, nanoskills debuffs etc. Crats have roots, mezzes with big init debuffs, snares, AoE versions of the crowd control stuff, demotivational speeches, stuns, big DMS buffs in the motivational speeches etc. Docs have massive init/dmg debuffs and great heals. Engis have AC buffs, Reflect AC buffs, Specials shields, AoE Blinds, AoE snares round bot, AC reducing auras etc.

    Which profession did you think has a worse defence against weapons users?

    MPs have.... ummm.... a damage init debuff that removes 37 dmg plus a bit off weapons inits, a short duration stun that kills our ability to nuke/debuff because of its massive recharge and a small evades buff. Oh - and in theory we have the creation weapons that give a tiny buff to AC plus a bit of DMS or HP... but we have to sacrifice our real weapon to use them and they do so little damage (melee at that lol) that they really aren't an option in PvP. We have a Psychosis pet of course that has no effect in PvP and just doesn't work in PvM (and never has worked according to FC).

    So that leaves us with the Heal Pet... which in PvP can be calmed/rooted/snared/mezzed/scared/initdebuffed by just about every single other profession in the game - except the soldier I think. Everybody else can take it out of action more or less. Once the heal pet is out of action in PvP we have no heal, no AC buffs, No reflect buffs, No HP buff, no emergency nullity/evac, no decent init debuff, no root, no calm, no snare, no blind, no DMS buff, No crit reduction aura, no specials shield.... nothing.

    Oh and did I mention we have the worst weapons skills in the game?

    That's the issue being highlighted here. If you'd like to suggest a profession that has less defences against weapons users - please do.

    X
    w00t..
    X Flamed some one.. haha Flame Flame!

    And i just know this guys gonna come back and say "well, one debuff and we cant nullity/root/use layers etc.."

    Well, the following professions can take that away..
    • MP's
      Traders
      Docs to some extent..


    The following professions can take away our heal pet..
    • Agent
      Crat
      Enforcer
      Adventurer
      Martial Artist
      Trader
      Doctor (Unstable init debuff on heal pet makes it heal like every 30 seconds lol)
      Nano Tech
      Fixer
      Other MP's (NSD makes it go OE and stop healing)


    Now who has it worse in the defence department lol
    Last edited by Alpherah!; Jan 8th, 2003 at 16:19:52.

  9. #29
    I wouldn't call it a flame... maybe an assertive correction of a misapprehension.

    North: It wasn't meant in any nasty way, really.

    X
    Xtremtech: MetaPhysicist currently resident on Test. (209 + 21 AI Levels).

    Various other test MPs of differing levels and builds available.

  10. #30
    You got love already. There are still 4 others in line. Wait your turn
    Bill "Rudeboyz" Clinton Nobel Prize Winning Engineer, Crusader for Duct Tape and Reclaim Inspector General of Rubi-Ka Gear

    Freshman Bob "Spookyrudy" Dole Buff Dispenser, Sexy Atrox, Master of The Atrox Monkey Love Arts

  11. #31
    Crawl under your bridge, troll.

    Edit: and welcome to my ignore list. I'm sick of your bs.

  12. #32
    When did MP's get love??
    We got a fix, allowing us both pets at once
    And creation weapons/Animas, which are useless.

    MP's have recieved no profession specific love, just what was left of the "pet love"

  13. #33
    Bump....MA's have a chance against MPs in pvp...thus they obviously need help. Also, mps/engis need pathing problems fixed.......funcom obviously doesn't get the people couldn't give a flying **** about some item having the correct graphic....we want to have a reason to log on. wake up funcom. or more people will leave the game and you'll find yourself chapter 11 when SWG and others come out...........


    ACCOUNT STATUS
    Cancelled
    This account was cancelled at:
    2002-12-14 12:42:18
    (29 days, 4hrs, 6 mins playtime)
    It will remain playable until : 2003-03-13 19:54:56

    Rookie Kaoshin 121 MA
    RK1 Red Tigers
    We can't stop here! This is reet country.... Well... poor bastard will see them soon enough....
    WWW.RAGE-DRIVEN-PACIFISTS.NET and www.red-tigers.com for good ma info.

  14. #34
    Rudeboyz = troll.
    Just ignore him.

  15. #35
    BTW last time MPs got "love" is a year ago is with the patch 12.8 that gave Animas (which got completely useless with Evocations, that doesn't stack with Animas), Teachings/Infuses and some fixes like being control 3 pets at the same time or so.
    Other than this "uberness" patch, at Patch 13.0 MPs got their crappy creations weapons.
    In 13.4, waaaaay overpowered Mezz pets were introduced. Lastly, we got Evocations that adds to pet AMS that are worst of 3 pets proffessions, LASTS FOR 22 SECONDS, doesn't stack with animas, while Engi/Crat ones last 30 mins and pet only snare/root reducers, NO self ones.

    No offense, but I see mostly NTs complain about this love patch which MPs didn't got any. I will use this just for example, during the same time they got Warps, AC/HP Buffs, NULLITY, NP Buff, New nukes like Candycane, Resonance blast, Pest, Fixer killers and good self snare/root reducers.

    With the Engis getting good AMS/DMS/Resist buffs, snare aura for pets and special resist nanos, MPs are the worst class now. I am not saying they don't need anything but this is the fact.

  16. #36
    Ummm... NTs have nullity, layers, AC buffs with HP buff, roots, calms with big init debuffs, blinds, stuns with dmg and shorter recharge, better evades buff, nanoskills debuffs etc. Crats have roots, mezzes with big init debuffs, snares, AoE versions of the crowd control stuff, demotivational speeches, stuns, big DMS buffs in the motivational speeches etc. Docs have massive init/dmg debuffs and great heals. Engis have AC buffs, Reflect AC buffs, Specials shields, AoE Blinds, AoE snares round bot, AC reducing auras etc.

    Which profession did you think has a worse defence against weapons users?

    MPs have.... ummm.... a damage init debuff that removes 37 dmg plus a bit off weapons inits, a short duration stun that kills our ability to nuke/debuff because of its massive recharge and a small evades buff. Oh - and in theory we have the creation weapons that give a tiny buff to AC plus a bit of DMS or HP... but we have to sacrifice our real weapon to use them and they do so little damage (melee at that lol) that they really aren't an option in PvP. We have a Psychosis pet of course that has no effect in PvP and just doesn't work in PvM (and never has worked according to FC).

    So that leaves us with the Heal Pet... which in PvP can be calmed/rooted/snared/mezzed/scared/initdebuffed by just about every single other profession in the game - except the soldier I think. Everybody else can take it out of action more or less. Once the heal pet is out of action in PvP we have no heal, no AC buffs, No reflect buffs, No HP buff, no emergency nullity/evac, no decent init debuff, no root, no calm, no snare, no blind, no DMS buff, No crit reduction aura, no specials shield.... nothing.

    Oh and did I mention we have the worst weapons skills in the game?

    That's the issue being highlighted here. If you'd like to suggest a profession that has less defences against weapons users - please do
    I don't say that playing MPs is a walk in a park, but it ain't so for crats/NTs either.

    Well you have nanoshutdown to begin with along with dominates. MQ that debuffs nanoskills etc. Well if you manage to land a nanoshutdown on someone...can you tell me exactly how that person is going to root/layer/calm/...umm use any of his/her nanos. That is pretty powerful nano you have there to begin with. Albeit it does have a high resist factor, but if you get it off...before that you can land few dominate's/MQs and your opponent has its skill severed quite harsly.

    And you DO not have worse weapon skills in the game. Example, you get to max weapon skills higher then NTs and docs (especially AR/FA). Hardly the worst weapon skills in the game when you get 50ish higher attack rating with decent PvP weapons.

    I dont say MPs are great PvP profession,but don't think they were ment to be. You are a team support profession and excellent soloing profession.

    Like I said, would be nice to see some new higher level stuff on MPs, but at lower levels you are pretty darn good of atm.

  17. #37

    Merge

    How about merge nanos.. that merge you with your different pets?

    If you merge with the attack pet, you'd recieve increased HP, armor, and enhanced physical damage/init. Merge with heal pet, recieve increased HP, a quick self HoT, and an occasional team heal (team HoT?). Merge with Mez pet and you put out an AoE init and run debuff.

    Perhaps if you merge with your pet you'd get increased bonuses from using creation items, such as enhanced defense from shields or larger poison DoTs from weapons that occur much more frequently. Its true that the MP hasn't really changed or gotten much love and really need some. They are a hard class to play in missions.... Merges would solve the pathing problem somewhat (by reducing the number of pets to keep behind you).

  18. #38
    And you DO not have worse weapon skills in the game. Example, you get to max weapon skills higher then NTs and docs (especially AR/FA).
    North. The MP is the only class in the game that has all dark blue weapons skills - certainly according to this table.

    NT's have light blue pistols and higher maxing ranged init.

    Crats have light blue pistol and phys init (and of course the AMS buffs that effectively give them a much better attack rating).

    MPs pistol maxes at the same as light blue but it costs us more IP and we lack the light blue init skill of the crat (ours all max much lower) and the higher maxing ranged init of the NT - init being a key element in weapons damage delivery.

    When comparing dark blue weapons skills - yes MPs max higher than an NT on AR, but then NTs max higher than MPs on Shotgun... the range of skills maxes on the skills is pretty much balanced between the MP and the NT with the key element in favour of the NT being their higher maxing Ranged Init.

    MPs do have the worst weapons skills in the game overall. The NTs are a close second to us but we do have the worst weapons skills in the game.
    Well you have nanoshutdown to begin with along with dominates. MQ that debuffs nanoskills etc. Well if you manage to land a nanoshutdown on someone...
    Yup, which is why in the above discussion we were talking about defences against weapons users. Since in the reality of the game every PvPer is a weapons user, it's usually the weapons that kill us.

    The above discussion was pointing out that - although we have some defences against hostile nanos cast in combat (and GA), we have no defences against weapons users at all really. The attack pet cannot tank for us in PvP, because players simply ignore it or root/snare/charm.. etc it. The NT and the Crat who stand in front of the weapons user have something to defend themselves with - the MP doesn't.

    Looking at it from another perspective - the Crat, NT and Doc all have some defence against both nanoskills and weapons. Their init debuffs all affect both weapons inits and nano init, crats who have a breakable -2100 to nano init also have nano draining AoE debuffs, NTs have nukes with nanoskills debuffs and green nanoresist of course. The MPs can defend against nanoskills... but they have no real defences against weapons skills.

    That's all we're pointing out here. We'd like some kind of real defence against weapons users because we have none except the heal pet - which can be effectively disabled by almost all of the professions.

    X
    Xtremtech: MetaPhysicist currently resident on Test. (209 + 21 AI Levels).

    Various other test MPs of differing levels and builds available.

  19. #39

    Post observations

    Originally posted by Chrysaor
    No offense, but I see mostly NTs complain about this love patch which MPs didn't got any. I will use this just for example, during the same time they got Warps, AC/HP Buffs, NULLITY, NP Buff, New nukes like Candycane, Resonance blast, Pest, Fixer killers and good self snare/root reducers.
    I agree that the duration of your Pets buffs suck and your pets should be feared a lot more than they are now. And you def need more high level content and pet pathing is a major issue.

    In truth most NTs will agree you need some loving for the higher level ranges.

    That aside though, there is a definite misconception about the NT nanos you list.

    Warp Nanos are quite cool although I only use it about once a week as not many people are willing to wait 140 secs for a warp to Tir/West Athen. Fold is a bit better but at level 130 I can't use them.

    AC/HP buffs. Virtually no NTs use them. why? they use up waaaay too much NCU for marginal benefits.

    NP Buff. OK, I like it but not many NTs do. Still, thanks for that one although it takes a lot of hours and luck to find a buff that is poorer than your shop bought one.

    Nullity. VERY few NTs have this and NS1 is not that good. I love NS2 but the vast majority of NTs dont have it so you can't judge a whole proff based on that. Still, as you say it was some loving and we appreciate it.

    Candycane. Probably far fewer NTs have and can use this than Nullity. Also not that good from what I can gather.

    Resonance blast. Apparently awesome but I could count on one hand the number of people with this.

    Corruption of the pest. Also limited to a few people.

    Fixer killers. Wasnt asked for and was more GA fix than NT luv as we could already do OK against Fixers.

    Self Snare/Root reducers. never used one, I just use the kits and are hard to get hold of.

    What I am trying to say is, yes NTs _do_ have some nice Nano's but very few NTs benefit from them and without the above (i.e. for the vast majority of NTs) we could definietly dow ith more.

    Regards,
    Rahmorak
    Last edited by Rahmorak; Jan 9th, 2003 at 14:11:26.

  20. #40
    Make an atrox use a manex and forget your pets

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