Do we want to trade kiting for un-nerf patch?

[Guer]

Posted by Silirrion :

Improving all aspects is unlikely to be possible given the toolset you do already have. Whether you like it or loathe it, many other players see your ability to kite as a very powerful ability so future changes do have to bear in mind the overall power of your profession, maybe any future changes may be very narrowly applicable to the 200+ or 210+ range as an example, or maybe rework something on the aoe to tone down the kiting ability to make way for some other enhancements (would you mind losing the ability to kite as it is now in exchange for a more flexible toolset?)



So our ability to kite it's been seen as a "powerfull" ability , so i am asking the nt comunity excluding farming toons ... would u trade "ability to kite " ?

I would do it in a blink of the eye , as ability to kite doesn't mean erasing AOE's from our toolset , just maybe "toning" it down like maybe put a attack time cap (1.5-2 s) and decrease recharge time ,resulting maybe even higher dps or new AOE nukes , AOE during aliens raids wouldn't be disturbed.

Also with caps, kiting might be still posible but maybe a lot more perilous.

[Delerium]

then i'd better be called "lovechild" by docs and advs for the rest of my days afterwards.

[Mastablasta]

I only ever kite spirits... Would kind of suck to lose the ability to get novictum fast, but I would survive. However I do NOT at ALL feel that one rather insignificant ability that OTHER players view as powerful simply because they have no idea needs to be removed from the NT Toolset in order for FC to JUSTIFY a LONG OVERDUE FIX To people that play MARTIAL ARTIST, DOCTOR, ADVENTURER, SOLDIER, ENFORCER, META-PHYSICIST, ENGINEER, FIXER, KEEPER, SHADE. Just to name a FEW.

This whole thing seems like it's run like an african state in revolt... where has reason gone? I don't know. Maybe if someone who knew would post here and tell us. Then at least I'd know that.

[Satenia]

I fail to see how our long overdue balance fix can be bound to the misinformation and ignorance that has recently spread through these forums when it comes to our AoE nanoline.

Poor zone design and imbalanced XP gain from a single mob should not be any kind of justification to cry nerf on us.

Looking at the poor performance of our profession, I do not feel like we are in a position where we have to let go of our very few remaining advantages in order to get some long overdue fixes.

So nope, there is no need to trade-in anything ... at least not as long as the professions with the strongest defenses also have the best damage at their disposal.

[Avarael]

Well, it's slightly comforting to realise that this has outraged a Professional just as much as me.

To make sure I understand correctly: Because other professions see us as being more powerful in one particular situation (mass mob kiting), FC have cold feet about updating a toolset that has, for the most part, seen little or no improvement seen SL's release - indeed in some cases, precious little (and on occasion have been made worse) since the original AO release?

Never mind that we've made suggestion after suggestion on the boards, few if any of which have ever recieved serious dev feedback. Never mind that we're able to dredge up threads that are months or even years old and the concerns in those threads are still present today. Never mind that, as the people who actually play the class, we might know better than those who see NTs rule one particular situation and decide we must be uber without actually trying to take one to anything like 200.

No, apparently they're the experts and we aren't.

[Portulis]

Player perception is important.........look at where crats were at introduction of SL and look at now......:P


However, I don't see where NT toolset needs a nerf, geez, lol.

[Shadehawk]

To be honest, I've started to loose faith in there every being an NT luuuve patch! I think I'm going to change my name to Ben Dover, cause I'm not gonna stop playing and thus I guess I'll just have to take whatever's coming my way from the powers-that-be...

[Mastablasta]

Crats need some kind of serious love too, but it's like crat and NT have become completely obsolete professions. Noone wants a 220 crat..what's he good for? Won't be teaming to increase xp, has no buffs that are really worth having him in team for, one aura works outside team just fine and they don't really deal any DMG on RK...

[Rahmorak]

I don't mind losing Elysium hecklers to be honest but that is the only thing and it had better come with some mountains of love. Anything else and I would be seriously upset.

[Satenia]

I don't mind losing Elysium hecklers to be honest but that is the only thing and it had better come with some mountains of love. Anything else and I would be seriously upset.

That's a whole diffrent matter though.

NTs or not, elysium brinks/hecklers need a redesign and I'll be the first one to support that, but NOT on the cost of our AoE nanoline.

There have been plenty of suggestions on how to adjust the mobs / loot tables in order to end the kiting and ingot farming (done by all kind of professions). No need to look at this as a NT related issue.

[Rahmorak]

NTs or not, elysium brinks/hecklers need a redesign and I'll be the first one to support that, but NOT on the cost of our AoE nanoline.

Exactly.

[zectlmagica]

AoE in elly isnt that good if only consider farming ignots... I can kill almost as fast with my Adv as with my NT.......

[Rahmorak]

AoE in elly isnt that good if only consider farming ignots... I can kill almost as fast with my Adv as with my NT.......

Yep but because of the griefing it causes and the percieved uberness of it (e.g. Sill's post askign about what we wanted from NTs refers to our powerful AoE ability) it is seen as being something amazing when it isnt. Just one more reason to lose Ely kiting via mob/game world changes.

[BiG]

I think sir missed the point... Its AoE kiteing not kiteing, allmost every prof needs to "kite" at one time or another nt is the only one that can AoE kite but if you have ever played an nt pased 200 you know you can only kite ely> and spirits THATS ABOUT IT
imo thats not that big of a "powerful ability" and as in most cases the "other players" are wrong and just generalizing a relatively small aspect of NT life into the main one.

[sternrav0r]

AOE's are not over powered. We true NT's know this.

And to be completely honest Sil is just another player made into Communtiy manager. Please keep that into perspective. He is not a Dev. What he presives as a powerful ability is the vocal minority speaking. Also it derives as a result of no one wanting NT's in there team.

Lets say your typical team setup does allow an NT in. Whats the first thing they usually request? Thats right... "dont use your AOE's!" Why? Well it can draw adds, aggro management gets harder as can get the team wiped out. We'll thats a double edged sword there friends. Our top end DD's have HUGE Taunt modifiers. We take aggro from tank, we go "Squish". No one likes a profession that dies all the time in there team. It slows things down. In the end we bring nothing to the Team.

SO! That being the case we get left out of the good teams and are left to our own devices. Hmmm I know, I'll go kite some stuff with AOE's. But wait!!! The VERY same players that deny us teams start to complain... "OMGz!! He can kill 10+ mobs by running in circles, nerf him!!" All the while not noticing that an Engy with his Bot can kill just as my of the same mob in the same or less amount of time.
Yes my friends, we can not win for loosing. There you have it the ultimate double standard.

"No you can't join my team your too squishy, and dont let me catch you kiting either or I'll get PvP flagged and grief you."
^^^ I know extreme analogy, but mostly true to the state of the current situation ingame.

[Phinger]

Xenia sums it up.

AOE is powerful....what a crock of &^%*&. Its useless in PVP from the good old early days on NW....nerfed thru all the damage shields reflects etc in game. and in PVM is only good if you either have the speed or the mobs are slow and dont hit hard can u effectively kite in any position.

For me farming ingots its way easier to nuke with IU, I kill just as fast, I dont get flagged by some idiot looking to gank a NT, and I can easily wander from dead mob to dead mob and loot.

Go play wow and see how AOEs rock there!! they actually wipe dungeons...and no damn kiting required.

Phinger

[Jaesic]

Oh... our AoE's have the "potential" to rock. We just rarely see it in practice. And since balance is based (typically) on potential, the AoE kiting option is considered a viable (and powerful) one.

But then... we've already had that conversation. So... why exactly are we saying it again? Either FC listened or they didn't. Move on to another angle.

Btw... the idea of level locks on the top AoE's doesn't do anything but force people to use lower ones. Considering most of them aren't terribly significant damage difference, you could step down several nukes and still kite Ely hecks without much more than a few more times around the circle. In order for your suggestion to have any impact, the whole line would have to be level locked.

And other than the nuisance factor, this doesn't change the profession enough one way or another to merit any sort of upgrade in our other toolsets or additional nukes in the AoE line. Also, personally, I'd rather shoot someone in the head than ask for more level locks. Level locks are bad! Level locks don't allow the toolset to evolve as skill budgets change, etc, etc. Don't even go there.

[Satenia]

"No you can't join my team your too squishy, and dont let me catch you kiting either or I'll get PvP flagged and grief you."
^^^ I know extreme analogy, but mostly true to the state of the current situation ingame.

Perfectly true though.

Placing the fastest leveling option in limited outdoor spots creates this kind of double standard, where players claim they are more entitled to level at a spot due to their numbers (a team so to speak), rather then due to the ability to handle the spot on their own (like a kiting NT). On the other hand they do not include certain professions into their team concept, which is limited to damage dumber and damage dealing professions ... not like it matters when you die, you got pool anyways.

So a NT in this example is denied team ... and in the same time denied to level solo as well at a given spot. Right, the thing we truly need are the ely leechers telling us where we are allowed to level and where we are not.

The good thing about the instanced gameplay team missions offered was (or rather is ... if anyone would still bother doing them) the advantage that you could choose to avoid elitists and players that for some reason live in the illusion that this game develops around themselfs and that the rest of the server has to bow according to that.

[Shadelore]

This have to be a joke right??! Cause some ppl farm ignots and grief lowbies in Ely, NTs are left to rot?
Well, if that is the core of the problem, place some lvl 250 superfast sniper mobs all along the Ely brink, and let them only aggro to AOE nukes, that should solve it And then fix nts!

[Maddiganed]

1st unnerf NTs, then try to resolve ely brink

Everything has been said concerning AoE... it's in our toolset since 11.0 and never been changed .. so why would it be now to unnerf NTs?