Purpose of the leaders channel (replies wanted please)

[______________Windie]

Sorry I have no idea where else to put this thread, so feel free to move it where appropriate.

I was reading the epic 'Fallout gets beat down' thread on ao-basher, and I came across this little tidbit which was both irritating, and maybe worth looking into.

posted by Cybermax

the Leaders channel: Just because you hear 20 idiots chatting about everything OOC in nature doesn't mean that they should get favoritism for these types of events. The real leaders hardly ever speak because they know that channel is meant for news, tactical updates when forming organizations together on a covert mission objective, and for gaining information from other leaders about certain guild structures, etc. Its not meant for someone to talk about sex dances at the such and such club. Give me a break. Why do you think most of the REAL leaders never listen to the Leaders Channel when its just filled with a bunch of kiddie OOC spam. Maybe a GM or two should focus more on aligning the leaders chat with more structured goals and/or look for better leadership assignments by having the leaders submit an online report of the organization and structure as well as their in-game intent on the storyline.

This breaks down into 3 questions:
1) What is the purpose of the Leaders channel, and should
it really be limited to just 'gaining information and politics'

2) I know theres a perception of favoritism, but what can we
do about it (seeking suggestions)

3) If the real leaders almost never talk on the channels,
then where are they when the events happen? I tend to
see the same people stepping forward to lead.

I think the overlying issue here is pretty important, so please lemme know what you think

[PezPower]

Well also, the leaders channel helps guild leaders just generally get to know each other and discuss the things that are happening overall.

If it brings the leaders a little closer, and increases guild cooperation, I think a little BSing on the channel's more than fine.

[Windguaerd]

I've seen RL insults...very little roleplaying...it's more of a BS chat channel...which brings almost no real advantage to Clan Leaders who want to use the channel to get to know other Leaders better or just roleplay...if you want to talk about Limp Bizkit, momma jokes, have no idea what roleplaying is or are too immature to have a conversation without the words DooD or wuss or nig*ah...then I don't think such person is using the channel...but abusing it, and it happens on a daily basis. Some don't listen to it unless another leader tells them there is something ACTUALLY belonging in the channel being discussed or announced.

I'd love to discuss politics in-character in the Clan Leaders channel, or military strategies, or events, or anything which can be roleplayed in any way, I want to have some fun in that channel, I want to enjoy talking to other players in that channel...but I don't...and I'm not alone.

If the BS was minimal...I'd understand...but it's not, and if any GM cared to log the channel for a few days...he'd be laughing at us...not with us...at us, for apparently being a bunch of kiddies trying to play clan leader...and I wouldn't blame them if they thought that way.

To Windie's questions:

#1 It should be limited..but how can FC enforce this?...I doubt they can, it's not like these forums which a moderator can delete an inappropiate post...

#2 Get more leaders involved, more roleplaying (if #1 was enforced I think this could be easily done).

#3 Well I can only say some shut down the channel for obvious reasons, but it's not hard to get to an event when a friend clan leader tells ya "something is up, i heard this and this in the clan leader channel"...so it's not from the channel but a third party they hear it usually...if even.

That is it for me.

Player of Windguard

[______________DASGee]

I agree that more RP'ing should go on in the Leader's channel. I do not agree with having it moderated or cancelled.

Favouritism... Maybe; the only favourites I see seem to be the people/chars that are trying to head a driving force in the world of RK. This is a good thing, do the work and reap the reward.

P.S. I use D00D in the leaders channel because it's the vernacular that I see DASGee speaking in.....

[connall]

OK - Some thoughts on the leaders channel...

1) The leaders channel should be available for whatever the leaders wish to talk to one another about IC. I am often disapointed by the amount of irrelevant OOC chatter that regularly blocks any attempt to actually post anything of relevance. When we were attempting to hold the EndGame Press conference, we ended up having to delay for an hour, as we were unable to find a clear space within the OOC garbage in which to mention it. That said, it is impossible to police the channel, we can only hope for a degree of responsibility from clan leaders. Unfortunately in certain cases it seems that this is a forlorn hope.

2) Cliques... This problem isn't ever going to go away. I have seen the same problem time and again in other organisations (mostly offline ones). Those people who put the work in, are automatically seen as having some sort of unfair advantage over the rest of the players. Now, this evidently isn't true... as anyone who wishes to may put the work in, and join the clique that way. However the perception will always remain that some are favoured and others are not. The only solution seems to be to try and include as many people as is humanly possible in stuff that is going on.

3) I have found the clan leaders channel invaluable for events and for news. Admittedly I am a bit of a plot whore, and will endeavour to make to it any event that I hear about, but I'd not hear about the events in the first place without Clan leaders chat (that may have changed now - I might have enough IC friends now that one of them would let me know what is going on - but it certainly used not to be the case). The previous leader of New Dawn used to keep the clan leaders channel switched off, and we were never involved in any events at all unless we actually got involved in the organisation of them. So in that way, I find the clan leaders channel to be exceptionally useful.

I think involvement is the key. Admittedly there will always be those who view this game as a glorified level hunt, but I think the majority of players would enjoy the roleplaying side as well, if they were given the opportunity to. Perhaps if we all endeavour to keep the OOC chat to a minimum, it might encourage more people to roleplay on the channel, and improve the quality of content for everyone. Like any community it is up to us to be self-policing.

Well that's my 2p,

John S.
IC: Isobel "Ailish" Wright.

Will roleplay for food.

[xyberviri]

First Off, It doesnt take too much to make a Guild just to monitor the Faction leader Channel (really Ticks me off with the Min 6 People) So problem 1 is :Its not a secure channel

Problem 2, Everyone is always using it for there Team/Mission Chat


Problem 3, there needs to be a OT/Clan Faction Leader OCC

THERE Also NEEDS to by <Guild Name> OCC Channel in Addition to a Faction Leader OCC channel since this happens on our own channels to.

[uni]

:: enters the room and strolls up the datapad and enters codes to start reading. After reading - begins to tap the keypad herself::

~Leader Chat Channel ..

I always have it on when planetside and logging it. I always envisioned it to be used to relay happenings around Rubi-Ka. This way if our presense is needed from across the planet - a quick call to our clan members can be made to get the word out. This for a call to arms or a call of a social event.

I like the idea of <name><guild name> to identify but if the ones that make it just to listen in on tactics during a raid, they would not speak up anyways for us to see who are. Plus space limitiations would make it impossible - can you imagine seeing something like:

(Clan Leader) BillyJoeBobBaRoo <Clan House of The Knights of the Leet Lovers> Hello Everyone

~Cliches - There will always be folks of like-minded feelings and of kindred souls. Thereby friendships / alliances will be made throughout Rubi-Ka. We have folks that are more voiceful than others in Leader Chat, so they are better known. Good or bad - does this make them a better leader - not really. Just means they are more voiceful than the ones that do not take part in the banter.

At the meetings each week of the Clan Leaders - I see many faces that I rarely (if ever) seen in Leader Chat. So hey - at least - they are listening if they are not doing the banter. So this is a good thing. For the ones that do not even monitor the channel - IMHO - this is sad to see - how can one pass out to their members of events that may be in the works.

~Language on Channel - I admit that there are days that I turn a deaf ear to the Leader Channel and there are some that I have on my /ignore listing. I do not wish to see the crap that others have already mentioned in this thread.

~Leaders - Each day we get another Clan House built in Rubi-Ka. I tend to agree that FC makes it too easy for anyone to gain access to the Leader Channel and to make guilds. I have visited other sites and how can a person of one be a Leader? I believe these type of Leaders should denied access to the Leader Channel.

http://www.anarchy-online.com/org/st...1/name/1511425
((just searched and this was first one I found))

There should be a limit set to say 20 active members (not alternates) to have access to the Leader Channel.

WOW! - I am babbling .. Windie ask I come and post my views ... hehe - Bet she is sorry now ... well, think I covered all the topics brought up here ...

Feel free to tear apart. See you all planetside. Unitsi Embar of Rising Phoenix

::Logs off the datapad, shakes her head in approval, turns and continues to the next objective::

[______________Canary]

Well, as someone who used to be a clan leader, no longer can or is currently inclined to post on Clan leaders, and yet sometimes, through various means, is still able to hear it, here is my opinion:

The thing that finally completely made me leave was twofold: One, the constant ego battles that were so patently NOT RPing (including from some of the "dedicated RPers") that would rage on the channel for HOURS. Just when you thought it was done, someone would start in with "Oh and another thing XXXX". The other thing was the belief and vibe from some of the people that "OK, I lead a guild, now I wanna lead all the leaders." The OOC stuff, for the most part (with one or two exceptions which from my monitoring haven't happened in a while) didn't bother me. I don't feel compelled to read EVERY line that scrolls past my screen.

Now as for making leaders be controlled/all in IC/etc, I tend to disagree. Some of the IC personas of a few people are just down right obnoxious, even if the person behind it isn't, and I'd rather find out what a person is really like a bit. I'm sorry, but if the first and only mesage I get from a person is "The great and powerful Duke Bojimbo Rambaso of Clan We Are SOOOO Kewl demands the presence of the assembled clans to join him in a meeting for the future of Rubi-Ka, a raid on MMD, and tea and crumpets afterwards" then I'm not going to bother to give him the time of day. There HAS to be some feeling out of people on the clan leaders.

[_________________nod]

I tend to use /ignore quite a bit on the leader channel these days. Some days it reads like the teleprompter on a bad sitcom...

Cratsworth
Bateman & Fletcher, LLC
Do It Right the First Time

[Baxie]

Hmmmm Leaders chan......

Well I know I am not the most in char type of person on the leaders chan. I happen to enjoy speaking to people in the leaders chan. about most everything.

The guy who said the "REAL" leaders switch it off well if he happens to think that cutting his guild off from the interaction of other guilds and officall events, well he must be a good leader.

I agree that an OOC and IC as seperate channels is a good idea, but most of the people that really grudge the leaders chan as bullpoop and kiddytalk are taking themselves too damn serious. There is no need to demand the leaders chan as strictly IC stuff. Its a channel to talk to people over same as all the other channels.

I see on a regular basis people who starts new guilds. (It really has become too easy to form a guild) They are all welcomed to the leaders channel and we help out with new stuff al the time.

Xyber you're right. There should be a IC/OOC both for leaders and guilds. But until then.... the people calling the leades kids, and telling momma jokes and talk about music. Get off your high horse. Its supposed to be a game. Its supposed to be fun.

To answer the questions:

1. The original concept I suppose is to be able to coordinate assaults cross guilds.

Personally I don't think it should be limited, but since so many people have a grudge against the people talking about non guild or non AO related stuff then split it up to two channels. One that could function as the current leaders chan do. and one for Announcements and Politics.

2. Favouritism? I am gonna get a lot of heat on this but IMO if you work for it you get the attention. I didn't just log in one day and get to command the forces in Sabulum. Its about Community appearance and some sort of effort.

3. Windie I seen you around the events. Just let this question slide. If you are a real leader you'd get your guild involved in the events and coordinate them with the other guilds. By shutting off leaders chat you cut off the Announcements of meetings and such by funcom.

Personnally I think that there should be a way to inform guilds of events eventhough the leader isn't online. This seems a lot more important to me.

Oh and: *knuffels Sunamun*

[sillytheclown]

Things i see leaders chat used for on Rubi 2.

1 Used to coord attacks.

2 used to pass along events.

3 used to rp, and yes we do it all the time.

4 used to make alliences

5 used to bs when board at times.

6 used to set up leaders meetings.

7 used to find group.

8 used to find items.

9 used to find directions.

10 used to discuss policy of the clans onRubi 2


well i can say in my time as a leader, i haven't seen what most you are complaining about. I am glad to be on the slow server.

Burt "Salve1" Hereda 102 doc Leader of Freedom's Edge Rubi 2

[______________Windie]

or I'm misreading you. none of those things are MY compliants, but I'm (over) sensitive to complaints of others and wanted to give them a chance to actually address their complaints (and maybe toput up or shut up.

but thanks for the feedback everyone...

[Baxie]

I think you misread me Windie.

The last answer isn't directed at anyone special.

Well maybe the guy who said: "Real leaders don't listen"

I just "Put up"

[______________Takuan]

I had access to the Leader channel when I was Guild leader of the Mutineers. I cut it off. I, as some others have said, viewed it as a means to to rally forces and discuss tactics maybe even work out problems. It proved to be a knitting circle.

I even went to a guild leader meeting and realized that at some point a few people had set themselves up as "leaders" of the clan leadership. There was a attempt at roleplaying but for the most part I left having felt that I wasted my time due to the obvious clique that had formed amongst a few of the leaders. No one listened they just put forth their own agenda.

There are some unspoken alliances and communication for events in this game but they tend to not envolve the guild leader channel as much. I know that when a pvp battle is to be fought there are a few leaders that send out some tells and the rest of us get mobilized but it's usually the same people; Snarf, Mekk, Drzand, Celestiness that get that ball rolling.

When we first hit Sebelum I, as a second in command for storm forces on site, only interacted with windie and snarf. I didn't realize that Baxie was in charge, sorry. I just remember shouting orders to send the pets in first cause it seemed disorganized.

I'm not trying to slam you guys here. I to cut the leader channel off cause it was just OOC spam. Maybe try and keep it more official sounding or more RP driven.

Not sure what Mekk does so I'm not speaking for storm but as the once guild leader for the Mutineers.

Takuan

[_______________Snarf]

The guild leader channel was much more entertaining when Lorekeep was around.

[Cogs]

Well, I have had it with leader channel. Even now, when sitting here to write this, Im having a hard time expressing in a coherent way how I feel about the gibbersih and stupid yapping that goes on there. Is the leader channel a place for juveniles to display their k3w1 d00d skills, exchange imbecile sexual jokes(if it can even be classified as a joke), etc, etc, etc....or is it to be a tool for us to use for information, roleplay and guild interaction in a game environment? For the time being, it is not the latter.
Im totally disappointed to say the least, and will most probably be off the channel from now on.

Mamasboy2
President RKFF

[Jhoanna]

Lorekeep...
ack...
hehe...
He didnt like me a single bit...

[Spoonbender]

Doesn't really bother me that much... I agree with Canary that the biggest problem by far is the ego battles... The usual OOC spam is easily ignored...

[________nyarlathotep]

i think the leaders channel has cleaned up some lately. theres still alot of useless banter, but its been a while since ive seen anyone talking about their own leetness, or kewl d00d talk. i still have to turn it off at times so i can see whats happening in my missions.

Originally posted by Takuan
I had access to the Leader channel when I was Guild leader of the Mutineers. I cut it off. I, as some others have said, viewed it as a means to to rally forces and discuss tactics maybe even work out problems. It proved to be a knitting circle.

I even went to a guild leader meeting and realized that at some point a few people had set themselves up as "leaders" of the clan leadership. There was a attempt at roleplaying but for the most part I left having felt that I wasted my time due to the obvious clique that had formed amongst a few of the leaders. No one listened they just put forth their own agenda.

Takuan

what takuan said there used to be sadly true. in fact its prolly the main reason alot of you dont like me. all the arguing and fighting i have done with those that had set themselves up as "leaders" got me a huge bad reputation, but oh well.

i think this too has come to an end finally. i see many of the former "leaders" much more willing to cooperate now. though i think some of them are gone for the most part.

[____________OnlySolo]

I've been a guild leader for months, and I only recently found out there was such a thing as a guild leader's channel. I only found out because an omni friend of mine started a guild. So please, bump if you agree:
We need a Neutral Guild Leader's Channel!!!!!