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Thread: Refocusing the Community work

  1. #41

    Thumbs down BUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!!!!!!!!!!!!

    So instead of one forum to check out what's going on I will have to check out way

    I'd also like to add that posting an official link to a site with pop up commercial is leaving a very foul taste in my mouth.
    All the ducks are swimming in the water

  2. #42
    I'm not sure I like this idea. Right now there's one central location where ideas, issues, and discussions can start. If this gets spread out to external boards, FC can simply ignore more of the player base than they do now. I don't post or read any of the "suggested" boards, and really don't want to start.

    What CZ is really saying is that we spread out to external boards and then FC can wash their hands of at least pretending to read our posts. Are they planning on hiring extra people to go scour the external boards to answer questions, etc? Face it, I've rarely seen ANY of the real player concerns brought to FC by the professionals. Why should I think they're going to start now? At least I'm fooled into believing someone actually reads my ideas and considers them when I post to the official forums. I guess you're just taking away the illusion..

    I visit 2 sites regularly. Agentsector's forums and the official ones. I basically get the majority of information I need from those. Now you're asking me to visit 4 or 5+ sites for that same information.

    Also, external sites have NO way of preventing posts from non-players like you do here. Have you forgotten what it was like before you implemented this policy?? The forums became unusable as people quit the game and came here to do nothing but rant and troll the board..

    IMHO, this is just a bad idea in the making and will just worsen the AO community..
    Last edited by Hodaka; Jan 20th, 2003 at 16:33:23.

  3. #43
    ps. damn my typing.
    NT's are Gods. No really we are. What are you lot laughing at???

    Level 220 Clan NT. Proud member of JVC

    My equipment

  4. #44
    Personally I think its a bad move, but thats mainly because I lose one of my main ways of keeping me from going mad at work

    one thing I would ask is have you thought about keeping the other forums open for a while, but just not working on them? Possibly leaving it to the professionals to spot good ideas extra and pass them on to you? I understand you probably dont want unmoderated forums, but would it be possible to try it and see if they work without degenerating into swearing and flame fests?


    Lilnymph - Clan Fixer - RK1
    lilnymph wrote on November 21st, 2003 08:01:01:
    You may take our postcount threads, but you will never take our FREEDOM!!!!!
    Originally posted by Cz
    The post count is mine! All mine! Mwahahahah!

    40.476190476190474% of me is a huge nerd! How about you?
    Style over Substance

  5. #45
    I agree with FC they should remove some of the forums, and try to get on top of the ones they can.

    A lot of the complaints on the forum is about FC lack of comunication. So if they have less to read, maybe they have more time to write?

    Keep us informed with links to were we can get the different info though!
    I want to be a campaign!!
    Tarilliux MP fun,fun,fun (should have been a crat with a name like this )
    Hexar ::::Nanotech::::
    Imothar Engie (For once on the recieving end of MP buffs)

    And a few other lowbies can't for the life of me remember their names

  6. #46

    Anarchy Online Vault

    I completely understand Cz's point and am supporting it fully. Not just because I run a fan site, but because I run several sets of the VN Message boards.

    Finding volunteers to staff, dealing with moderator issues, dealing with poster issues, in addition to content duties, is a bear.

    The fan sites are better equipped to do this.

    Now, as for having to check 4 sites, that is hardly the truth. Find one of us you like (AO Stratics, AO Basher, AO Vault, or another smaller one) that posts news daily. We cross-report on each other, so when one gets something from a developer or has an interesting post, we link to that on our main page.

    On the Vault Network Boards - I have added some boards to allow for anyone who wants to, to move. Here is our current set-up:

    General forum:
    Developers forum: (This is a brand new board and the developers will have a presence there)
    FAQ board:
    Role-playing forum:
    Storyline forum:
    Suggestions forum:
    Atlantean trade forum:
    Rimor trade forum:
    Off-topic forum: Anarchy Lounge

    One last thing. We currently have a weekly developer Q&A with Funcom. If you have a question you would like directly answered, email it to me at:

    Last edited by Rosethorn; Jan 20th, 2003 at 16:48:48.
    Zachary Sawyer was born at 11:09 AM on September 17, 2002
    Industry Relations Coordinator -
    Visit AO Warcry -

  7. #47
    This is a very bad move in terms of customer relations.

    A significant portion of the AO subscriber base is already frustrated and unhappy because of inattention - or at least perceived inattention - to their concerns. This is especially true for active, long-term players.

    Many of these long-time subscribers have a severe lack of trust and confidence in Funcom because of the continuingly and famously poor quality control and repeated and massive changes to basic game mechanics and features.

    Often Funcom communicates things to players - via these boards, or even via articles - that are totally wrong, contradictions of previous statements, or completely out of synch with the actual game as we experience it.

    There is a psychological difference between an official forum and a fansite forum that will increase dissatisfaction with communications.

    Finally, directing the community to fansites will serve to splinter the community among the fansites, and to increase their operating costs as their bandwidth useage increases.
    Taren "Jynne" Suitt, Level 216/16 Eternalist
    Knight of Unity of the Rose - Check out our AO Tools!
    The Doctor Guide to: Notum Wars Martial Arts Perks! Nano Controller Units
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    Visit the Roses and check out the shops in our City, NE of ICC at 4500x1500 in Andromeda!

    Iron Law of Exploits: If it can be exploited, it will be exploited. However a rule is exploitable, the exploits become the rule.

  8. #48
    Noer, heh, yup. I saw "No.." and just thought "Noer". Edited. (Sorry, Noxz. )

    Kopo, no, you're not mentally deficient. You basically show some of the issue by your questions, which shows that there are unknowns to you players which you can't take into account when reading news like this. And I can't hand them out.

    Constantly addressing all - or even most - issues seen on any forum is simply not possible. The devs have lots to do, and if I were to bug them constantly with all the issues NW would have been out maybe next Christmas, if we were lucky. I already bug them a lot (the benefit of sitting close to them), and I see a lot better results from regular Q&A sessions with them, with the weekly questions from fan sites and the Professionals.

    Ravegrrl, if we could add a tag to the link to avoid pop-ups, I would. It's still a major site, even with the (unfortunate, to many) pop-up.

    Hodaka, you are claiming I say different things than I do in fact say. It's not very constructive. It's actually very bad form. I don't do it to you, so please don't do it to me.

    We're not going to hire extra people to read external bulletin boards. We will however get the help of volunteers for it. Some of which are currently occupied with e.g. moderating this bulletin board.

    And if you expect us to read everything you post on these forums, then yes, we're taking away an illusion.

    lilnymph, good input, but you're right about us not wanting unmoderated forums. If we could live with that, we probably wouldn't need to do any changes in the first place.

  9. #49
    Jynne, the "significant portion" should hopefully enjoy the increased time spent on working on their concerns, instead of moderating the bulletin board. This again will hopefully build trust and confidence.

    Yes, a fan site forum is a lot less official than this bulletin board, which is why I doubt we will post a lot of important official information there. That will probably be on the sites' main page, in the Community Corner, and - of course - on the official AO site.

    I don't know how high costs the fan sites have, but of the three I listed in the article, two belong to big networks, and the third is located on our servers, so I hope they all can take some extra load.

  10. #50
    for me this kinda kills the community relations.. I have always loved to just have to visit one msg board for all my needs.. but since your closing down the sections I frequent most I guess im gonna get out of touch with the community.. I cant stand the idea of havingto check 3+ different boards with their sections just to stay uptodate on whats going on..

    your starting to alienate those who dont play everyday for hours. I would by no means know what I know today about the game if it wasnt for the board. I hardly have the time to camp bosses and other things that take lots of time to complete. and by that I hardly have the time to get heavily involved in guilds and such (as that takes alot of time aswell), making this a solo game for me. I might aswell go back and play Syndicate Wars instead cause that game is atleast a bit more solo friendly then this game.
    having to check 3+ different boards to see if people have made new discoveries, new npcs and so on.. not gonna happend for my part, I might aswell just cancel (I doubt im gonna do it though).
    Wander around with no new knowledge about the game more then the things I pickup along while playing my few hours the days I play.. kinda puts me back into the stone age, so much for the information age.

    Only way to compansate for this loss is in my opinion a better way of communicating ingame, like ingame bulletin boards, but that kinda puts you back in the same position.

    ohwell I guess im gonna see what the new changes does before puting my final judgement on this case, but it sure doesnt look to bright.
    Last edited by Lumin; Jan 20th, 2003 at 17:14:48.
    Operation impending doom 2 seems to have started with patch 15.6.5
    12.6 first contact, 14.6 second attempt, 16.6 Invasion of the gabber bots ?
    Old and bitter player, currently playing: Justincase GA4 wearing phix0r
    Originally posted by Cz
    I already saw this thread, but refrained from answering due to the pleasant show of confidence from Lumin.
    Sing a song for FunCom

  11. #51
    Originally posted by Cz
    Hodaka, you are claiming I say different things than I do in fact say. It's not very constructive. It's actually very bad form. I don't do it to you, so please don't do it to me.

    We're not going to hire extra people to read external bulletin boards. We will however get the help of volunteers for it. Some of which are currently occupied with e.g. moderating this bulletin board.

    And if you expect us to read everything you post on these forums, then yes, we're taking away an illusion.

    Well, I think if you'd read what I said it was:

    Are they planning on hiring extra people to go scour the external boards to answer questions, etc?

    I never said you were hiring new people. I was making it clear that with multiple forums, even less response would be made than is now because it would obviously take more work to scour multiple boards than it does just the official ones..

    edit: I can see how you'd read that as a question if you lost my sarcasm in the first post. Please reread with a liberal dose of sarcasm.. that was never meant as a "question"

    Also, I know it's just an illusion, I just wanted to hear you say it We're told what's going to happen, but when feedback is requested, we're usually outright ignored.. Professionals have their own agenda that rarely covers the concerns of the "majority" of players, so I doubt you'll be getting any *good* ideas from them.. as for reading everything I post, that's not what any of us expect. What we do expect is that someone will take ongoing and often brought up threads (example: implementing a reload key) and actually address those..

    I read your article multiple times, I just wish you had read my post a bit better before responding..

    btw, if FC can't afford the cheapest of salaries for simple customer relations then FC is in trouble anyway..
    Last edited by Hodaka; Jan 20th, 2003 at 17:25:18.

  12. #52

    One Suggestion

    Greetings All,

    Interesting bit of news, indeed. The reasons are certainly understandable enough, as it involves a great deal of work to run and modify an information exchange (speaking from past experience).

    One thing I might suggest though, is that Funcom continue to provide one forum for the discussion of AO-related items (ie World of Rubi-Ka), ON the "official forums".

    If nothing else, this is a token gesture of goodwill to the AO community as a whole. What it does provide though, is an outlet for those of us interested, to discuss things in the gameworld, as well as what players are doing to support it. Passing that off to fansites may seem like a good idea; and perhaps some traffic will be directed that way, but for those of us with no interest in the often-unpleasant prospect of dealing with loose moderation; externally, having an "official" forum to discuss these things in would certainly be welcome.

    Just an opinion. :-)

    - Velek
    Last edited by Velek; Jan 20th, 2003 at 17:21:33.
    Test Server
    Disciple of Leet-Fu

  13. #53
    Originally posted by Cz
    Why, thank you for the extremely constructive feedback, Kinkstaah.


    Now, did you at all read the part about resources on the team?
    Don't be lonely anymore.

    Look at your post, now back at mine. Now back to your post, now back at mine. Sadly, yours isn't mine, but if you stopped trolling and started posting legitimate comments it could look like mine. Look down, back up, where are you? You're scrolling through posts, reading the posts your posts could look like. Back at mine, it's a reply saying something you want to hear. Look again, my reply is now diamonds. Anything is possible when you think before you post.

  14. #54
    Jesus, so you nerf the thing I can do to enjoy some of Anarchy Online when I can't be in-game.

    Hope you realize that this will just put more of my time in the Eve beta BB.

    I'm starting to see a lot of similarities between FC and AO and Dynamix right before the Tribes 2 loss.

  15. #55
    I do want to make one suggestion as well. Put one "conflict" and one "ooc" board, thats it. Make a not that there will be no moderation. Or something.

  16. #56
    Oh sure, for the other websites to pay for the bandwidth.

    I'd continue complaining, but really, what is the bloody point. I'm sure you guys know the reasons why you shouldn't do this, no point in stating the bloody obvious.

    Sure, I could easily move to the other websites, but this board was made to cater to the customers. Removing them definetly shows how much you value that community.

    "No really, we care about you. Hell we even made a board for you untill we decided to dump you off to some joe shmoe."

    Yeah, we probably have no idea what the situation is like over at Funcom, but if you want sympathy, go talk to your coworkers. If I cared about your company, I'd be a shareholder. Instead, I paid for a game, and what I expect from you is enough entertainment to warrant the monthly fee. If the entertainment value drops enough, off I go. Simple as that.

    So you guys just keep on pushing... my wallet and social life will probably thank you for it someday.

    Hey look! It's a happy face! Everything is going to be alright with the world now.

    Oh wait, sad face... I know see the reality of the situation and am regaining my former pessimistic glory....

    wait, happy face! Even though this sucks, this face seems to make everything right with the universe.

    Last edited by Shiseiji; Jan 20th, 2003 at 17:27:31.

  17. #57

    cant you phase them out a few at a time rather than just removing most of them. that way you let it find its natural balance and it doesnt hit everyone so hard.
    Some can go for sure but as mentioned by others a few of these forums are important and dont get that many posts on them anyway.. such as world of removing some of teh less needed ones first you may find these forums can infact be maintained without that much work..
    Last edited by Slaggermulps; Jan 20th, 2003 at 17:31:47.
    woohoo at last!!!! i've found my MK IV
    "Make all trader drains self only." -aaronb (asmoran)

  18. #58

    Cz...a moment of your time please.

    I understand the reasoning behind what your company has decided to do here. But I need to point out some issues I see as being very pertinent.

    When Everquest first came out, Sony maintained forums for it. It gave the customers a point of contact directly with the company. Now, as your company is in the MMORPG business I'm sure your well aware of the history of EQ's official forums. But when they shut down those forums they lost alot of paying customers.

    Its a negative move, in customer relations, for a company to foist off the responsibility for open paying customer feedback to a site that has no responsibility for the concerns of the customer base using it.

    It also causes a general diaspora of the customer base to different fan sites which can cause a fragmentation of friends and guilds due to miscommunications or flat out loss of contact out of game.

    In the case of the Official Forums here, you could reduce your workload on the forums by a full THIRD by removing the Professions forums. These forums can easily be handled by fansites and in some successful cases like Agent Sector they already are.

    But as far as a central point for your community to gather...there won't be one. As many have pointed out, your customer base is worldwide. Not all sites will be effectively accessible to all players in some cases.

    As far as the immersion of the game is concerned, its an incredibly bad move as well because once again...your forcibly scattering your customer base to other sites. The -SMALL- roleplay element in AO as it is (since the only support you've shown the roleplaying community is the forum and the event calendar...since we apparently don't rate our own server [how DAoC pulls off two of them with less customers than you is beyond me]) will be shattered into little islands of players that talk regularly enough to know where each other are posting....which will completely negate any growth of the RP community in AO because there will be very little cross communication.

    And, beyond this. It completely takes any negative image control out of your hands. AO has its bugs...and without someone around to do damage control or at least officially ADDRESS such concerns....Funcom will be putting on the "big nasty RPG company" image that all the other MMORPG's out there have grown into...where feedback from its customer base is unwelcome. What will you do? Simply issue news statements from that point that say "The inforrmation on <insert website here's> forum is completely unsubstaintiated because our OFFICIAL poll indicates that X is not an issue".

    These forums are the one thing that makes AO different from every other MMORPG on the market. The storyline development...and the community focus is what brought me back to AO after a HUGELY bug ridden Open Beta (and I'd spent MONTHS salivating over AO before the Open Beta). Those things, combined with the fixes and improvements over a year and a half is what brought MY money to AO...its why I cancelled 2 EQ accounts and 2 DAoC accounts and dragged my girlfriend to this game with me.

    And now your saying that that focus is no longer a viable alternative for your company, and foisting me off on "Fan Sites" which do nothing but regurgitate official news I can get when log into the game....and spam me with pop up ads that I don't want to be bothered with.

    This is a -VERY- bad move. Sure...prune some of the forums. But Your community focus should remain. And its easy enough to do.

    Official Announcements (Obviously this should stay so theres an OFFICIAL source of news for all the Fansites to plagarize from)

    Technical Support/Bug Reporting (Without a doubt this has to stay, this game has too many bugs for it not to)

    Test Server Bugs (Needed to try to catch aforementioned bugs before they become live server issues)

    Community Forums(With the following subforums)
    Beginners Corner (Vitally important....99% of new players to Rubi-Ka find answers here. Not everyone trying your game is going to know that <insert site here> is tbe biggest news site for information on Anarchy Online)

    The World of Rubi-Ka (Important for people to be able to share experiences from in game and to discuss everything to do with everything in the game...this would be essentially a general game specific overflow forum)

    Roleplaying (mmoRpg....the R stands for ROLEPLAYING...this forum needs to stay because AO's RP player base is very fragile because theres no RP enviroment in game except for what we make on our if you chuck this forum...we want our own server....thank you.)

    Market Forums (You seem to think this is important in your article...but I'd say both of these forums are handled quite while by the in game system. You want to prune some work and waste of bandwidth, chuck both the market forums and keep the Organiztions Forums)

    Thats 8 forums Cz. Even a monkey being attacked by a pack of lions can moderate 8 forums. So I'm more than sure you could handle it.

    Please consider this further. If I wanted to play a game thats turned all responsibility for community management over to third party representatives, I'd still be playing EQ or DAoC.

  19. #59
    Cz, sorry m8 but I have to say this:

    We're all wasting our time here. Posting a link to "discuss" this was a token gesture and nothing more. It has already been decided which way this is going to go and that is set in stone. No amount of ideas or suggestions can sway a decision that's already been made and is irrevocable imho.
    NT's are Gods. No really we are. What are you lot laughing at???

    Level 220 Clan NT. Proud member of JVC

    My equipment

  20. #60
    Originally posted by Cz

    "posts on the boards get ignored"
    20000+ posts per week, 1 community person. You try.
    You sure seem to find the ones you feel should be closed by you real god damned quick.

    My god I have so much to say about this decision my head is about to explode. I think I'll try a couple asprin before I start.

    Jellobiafra General of First Order
    First Order-Cleaning clanners since 29210
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