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Thread: Aimed Shot Recycle Time is Insane

  1. #61
    He use a x-3 with 50s aimedshot recharge and about 30% higher base dmg. Anyways 2700 avg sounds higher than I get with x-3 so I think that number is a bit exxagarated because I have a significant amount of crap shots too.

    Regardless, if you pick a caterwaul you do not do much dmg at all between aimedshots, but if you ditch your non aimedshot damage this is the only way agents can do dmg without beeing on full aggro (or maybe 50% in mimic enf with rage).

    I'll agree with you on this, its a bit annoying for agents that docs and NTs with ithaca has higher aimedshot skill than rifle wielding agents or similar skill with rifle in addition to their heals and nukes, and the biggest reason for that is the +300 from VE and ELLTS. We have suggested solutions to this but havent been heard. What this thread is gonna accomplish if anything is just a general AS nerf. Specials do much of the dmg in PvP now if specials are nerfed the nerf calls will move back to healing again and you just have a never ending cycle of nerfs.

    If this trend continue, sometime in the middle of 2003 PvP in ao will just be ppl running around shooting and debuffing each other but only those without healing will ever die.
    Last edited by Myga; Jan 15th, 2003 at 13:21:27.

  2. #62
    Originally posted by Snublefot
    Tiggy: They could perhaps nerf agents just a little, cause they make such funny noises when that happens
    Hmm i think i liked your other statment alot better

    but here is a pre nerf "Eeep" just for you.

    Tiggy

  3. #63
    "So no, AS is not all agents got, they also have roots. So the argument falls."

    Yea, um okay. We do have roots. But, who else has roots? Like almost every other class that can cast a nano? NTs, Fixers, Traders, Crats... I mean really. Saying we shouldn't be able to do damage (because AS really is a large portion of the damage output for Agents, especially when attacking someone with high evades) just because we have the ability to root someone is insane.

  4. #64
    Originally posted by Myga


    Seriously if anything is unbalanced its not aimedshot, its heals.

    YES!! This is why healing classes HATE AS so much. It is really all that stands in their way to totally dominating mass pvp. Heals are overpowered. Drains are overpowered, Roots and Snares are overpowered, all the offensive nanos are overpowered in that they land way too easily. As a rooting class, I can't believe how easy it is to root someone, effectively freezing them in place so they can't move?!? and the root often doesn't break for 3-5 hits?!? FC's "solution" is to give us nanos that cut the time on the root?!? Got news for you FC, in mass PvP, drain = run away, deinit =run away, blind = run away, 40% AS hitting you = run away... ROOT = ALMOST INSTANT DEATH. This is MUCH more devastating than a 40% AS, yet no one deals with this issue, they all go straight for AS.
    Last edited by Jutlina; Jan 15th, 2003 at 17:10:14.

  5. #65
    If anyone from FC is reading this, just want to clue you in on a few generalities:

    1) People are getting fed up in mass pvp spending 80% of their combat time rooted, snared, blinded, drained, debuffed. The overpower of these spells in PvP is making NW PvP NOT FUN for anyone.

    2) People are getting fed up with having to be tied to the game 24/7 to derive benefits from the NW expansion. Being tied to a game to derive PAID FOR BENEFITS from that game is NOT FUN for anyone who can't spend 15 hours a day playing the game. The planning within huge orgs necessary to play NW begins to resemble the WORK that we seek to escape by playing your GAME. The people who are in the game 15 hours a day will be leaving en masse soon anyway so why are you continually catering to them? Is my $10 not as green as theirs?

    3) People are getting fed up trying to acquire the new items patched into the game when getting such requires 3 teams of people to kill placeholders until the loot mob spawns with a 1/3 drop rate. You may think that you can get away with this because Everquest does; you aren't Everquest, you can't. It's NOT FUN.

    4) People are getting fed up with new nerfs coming patch after patch while basic problems like RUBBER BANDING in missions go unattended. It is NOT FUN to be nerfed patch after patch.

    5) You have competition coming from many different directions sooner than you would like. That competition may come from good or bad products which are or are not a rewarding experience for the player. Who knows? But as you tell people patch after patch, "Yes the purpose of the game is to get good, but you are getting a little too good," people will consider and choose those alternatives. You have had your time of being "special," and of being the best alternative; time's almost up.

    Perhaps instead of spending programming resources on the nerf stick for the next few patches you should spend some resources on making sure that the people who are playing your game are having FUN, FUNCOM.

  6. #66

    Snublefot wrote:

    Quoted my "normal" AS being 2700 and then:

    "Would be pretty close to 40% of a nonessence, non-forcer/atrox toon."

    And you think I am shooting those in PvP areas? In my dreams perhaps heh.

    Everyone in Pvp area is buffed to the brim or they are nj00bs or just plain stupid

    Normal bare bones is profession buffs + essence + rrfe. Usually people also have doc health buff and fixer hot + speed, not to forget high lvl enf screen and prolly some other buffs too.

    If you said that to bring out the fact that yes, AS is usually not hitting anywhere near 40% then your point illustrates it yes.

    It would be 40% of someone running naked in PvP field but how many of those you see there?

    Zarch and da chars including friendly Agent Daquis

    PS.

    Yes, I am friendly even to my victims heh

  7. #67
    Originally posted by Sanskrit


    YES!! This is why healing classes HATE AS so much. It is really all that stands in their way to totally dominating mass pvp. Heals are overpowered. Drains are overpowered, Roots and Snares are overpowered, all the offensive nanos are overpowered in that they land way too easily. As a rooting class, I can't believe how easy it is to root someone, effectively freezing them in place so they can't move?!? and the root often doesn't break for 3-5 hits?!? FC's "solution" is to give us nanos that cut the time on the root?!? Got news for you FC, in mass PvP, drain = run away, deinit =run away, blind = run away, 40% AS hitting you = run away... ROOT = ALMOST INSTANT DEATH. This is MUCH more devastating than a 40% AS, yet no one deals with this issue, they all go straight for AS.
    Actually all the doctors I've seen pvp'ing depend on aimedshot to deal ALL their damage. Kinda doubt if they'd want aimedshot nerfed , the doctors probably love AS.
    Sredniaka Sherrmanaka Posthasteaka Thanatopsysaka Vashtareliusaka Nnerroaka Alexxander

    "Quidquid latine dictum, sit altum viditur"

    Sredni Vashtar went forth,
    His thoughts were red thoughts and his teeth were white.
    His enemies called for peace, but he brought them death.
    Sredni Vashtar the Beautiful.
    by HH Munro

  8. #68
    Originally posted by Sredni


    Actually all the doctors I've seen pvp'ing depend on aimedshot to deal ALL their damage. Kinda doubt if they'd want aimedshot nerfed , the doctors probably love AS.
    Point taken.

  9. #69
    Actually all the doctors I've seen pvp'ing depend on aimedshot to deal ALL their damage. Kinda doubt if they'd want aimedshot nerfed , the doctors probably love AS.
    Bleh. Give them a scalpel that can be dualwielded. And adds 2K to nano init and halfs recharge on nanos. Then increase the recharge on CH. And give them better DoTs (again with double attack time that you need the 2K booster to use...). Increase the class defining abilities.

  10. #70

    Talking

    Oh sshh, another one that got killed in pvp and think that nerfing something will make you live next time.

    Why wont ppl like you go away, go ruin another game bloody nerfmongers...

    _________________________________________

    Just wanted to bump this post by Hermy at the beggining of the thread, your on the right track sista =0p
    Yashanda lvl 200 omni doc

    Tarheel lvl 112 Agent
    Knightdale lvl 109 Trader
    Pookypoo lvl 107 enf

  11. #71
    people call nerf cause some aspect is ruingin "their" game for them, this game isnt just for docs traders and enfs : )

    this is a blatant exageration but what if there was a nano that instantly killed docs and soldiers had it, just instantly killled you, whould yhou call nerf? and become the "bloody nerfmonger" that you so hate?

    liek i said we all play this game and we all pay our fee.. its not "your" game its everyones.

    :P
    Legion

    || 220 || || Soldier || || Obligatory Equipment listing ||


    If you are going through hell, keep going.
    -
    Sir Winston Churchill

  12. #72
    Originally posted by Sredni


    Actually all the doctors I've seen pvp'ing depend on aimedshot to deal ALL their damage. Kinda doubt if they'd want aimedshot nerfed , the doctors probably love AS.
    this is sadly, for the most part true.
    Legion

    || 220 || || Soldier || || Obligatory Equipment listing ||


    If you are going through hell, keep going.
    -
    Sir Winston Churchill

  13. #73
    I'm only going to say one thing from the perspective of a up and coming Agent alt of mine. Yes, AS is a powerful special. Should every profession be able to use it to it's fullest potential, no. Should it be nerfed, no. Why? Think about it, rifles with AS where designed to be agent weapons. What's an agent good at? Being an assassin, a sniper, a devistating dmg dealer in the shortest ammount of time. Is that really the case with agents? No. People cried nerf so much that agents can't do what the are ment to do. Heck, My main character is a lvl 151 NT. I have absolutely no fear of agents. And NT's (nanomage bread anyway) have about the lowest health out there. They should easily be able to take my head off with a single shot. But as it stands now, because of all the nerf cries, they can't.

    Anyway, I've said more then I intended to already. My vote: Leave AS alone, give agents better rifles with more powerful AS shots. Make them agent only if need be, but agents need some pvp lovin.

    -Vertego

  14. #74
    Okay, guys, this is what I've gathered.

    (PLease read this, I think it makes a lot of sense to implement.)

    The argument is that AS is okay, damage wise, but it's recycles
    are too fast as they are. Well, you know what? I have a simple
    solution for you, that involves changing what stats effect cycling
    time. This is to keep agents masters of it, as it's supposed to be:

    Now, for AS recycle time, it should rely mostly on the conceal skill.
    Agents can get over 600 more than any other class in conceal, at
    high end. 400, if you count their team buff, and 200 if an adv uses
    PoG with that, as well. However, most of the time, conceal is
    triple implanted on agents, so it's a viable option. Think about it:

    Want fast AS recycling to be an agent only trait, as it should be?
    Stop making AS skill determine it, and have it rely on conceal. NO
    one has more conceal skill than a high end agent. On top of that,
    lower the modifer effect the AS skill has on AS damage, make it
    account for maybe 50%, and have the other 50% rely on conceal.
    Much like recycle times, to balance it more towards the AS master,
    and not the "What can I use in PvP, on top of what I already have" type...

    (Maybe even have recycle rely on more conceal than anything..)

    After all, it is an Agents mastery and other's secondary option. It's
    all an agent has, whereas, it's only an alternate source for others.

    That way Agents; supposed masters of concealment and
    AimedShot will be such. And, it's a viable request, considering
    AimedShot is *supposed* to be a conealment reliant special. This
    is the best way to do it, without chaining AS to conceal in PvP and
    potentially screwing every other class over in PvP who uses it.

    On top of ALL of this, agents should NOT have to choose
    between rifle and AS, the base agent's ONLY weapon skills,
    when implanting. The best locations for AimedShot, changed:

    Note: Must remain in the same cluster to prevent exploits.

    Shining: R-hand
    Bright: Eye
    Faded: R-Wrist

    The only conflict I can see is with one's eye, where it goes
    against Psy Mod or Sense Imp, which is a sacrifice one must make
    if they want a faster recycle. Seems like a decent change to me...


    High Conceal Skill+High AimedShot skill=Fast Recharge. (Agent)
    Mediocre Conceal at best+Good AS skill = Slower AS recharge.

    Bottom line:

    1)Shift clustering *within* implants so agents can triple implant AS.
    2)Make conceal a bigger factor in AS recharge AND damage.

    I think it's as simple as that.

    It'll slow others w/lower conceal, and cap agents, as it should be.

    PS: Agents also need a high end combination buff, like Frenzy of
    Shells (I think.), the equivalent of Sniper's Bliss, just higher level.
    I could cast Ua and TTS at 130. Agents need a Level 175 nano
    that adds a good 140 to rifle and another 165 to aimedshot.

    Right now, it's 70 levels with the same buff, much like sniper's
    bliss to UA. I think it's only fair. All other have high end buffs that
    combine an attack skill and a special into one nano, condensing
    the NCU cost to make room for other third party high end buffs.

    All of those compiled, I'd say this'd be pretty well off.

  15. #75
    Originally posted by Morthoseth
    Okay, guys, this is what I've gathered.

    (PLease read this, I think it makes a lot of sense to implement.)

    The argument is that AS is okay, damage wise, but it's recycles
    are too fast as they are. Well, you know what? I have a simple
    solution for you, that involves changing what stats effect cycling
    time. This is to keep agents masters of it, as it's supposed to be:

    Now, for AS recycle time, it should rely mostly on the conceal skill.
    Agents can get over 600 more than any other class in conceal, at
    high end. 400, if you count their team buff, and 200 if an adv uses
    PoG with that, as well. However, most of the time, conceal is
    triple implanted on agents, so it's a viable option. Think about it:

    Want fast AS recycling to be an agent only trait, as it should be?
    Stop making AS skill determine it, and have it rely on conceal. NO
    one has more conceal skill than a high end agent. On top of that,
    lower the modifer effect the AS skill has on AS damage, make it
    account for maybe 50%, and have the other 50% rely on conceal.
    Much like recycle times, to balance it more towards the AS master,
    and not the "What can I use in PvP, on top of what I already have" type...

    (Maybe even have recycle rely on more conceal than anything..)

    After all, it is an Agents mastery and other's secondary option. It's
    all an agent has, whereas, it's only an alternate source for others.

    That way Agents; supposed masters of concealment and
    AimedShot will be such. And, it's a viable request, considering
    AimedShot is *supposed* to be a conealment reliant special. This
    is the best way to do it, without chaining AS to conceal in PvP and
    potentially screwing every other class over in PvP who uses it.

    On top of ALL of this, agents should NOT have to choose
    between rifle and AS, the base agent's ONLY weapon skills,
    when implanting. The best locations for AimedShot, changed:

    Note: Must remain in the same cluster to prevent exploits.

    Shining: R-hand
    Bright: Eye
    Faded: R-Wrist

    The only conflict I can see is with one's eye, where it goes
    against Psy Mod or Sense Imp, which is a sacrifice one must make
    if they want a faster recycle. Seems like a decent change to me...


    High Conceal Skill+High AimedShot skill=Fast Recharge. (Agent)
    Mediocre Conceal at best+Good AS skill = Slower AS recharge.

    Bottom line:

    1)Shift clustering *within* implants so agents can triple implant AS.
    2)Make conceal a bigger factor in AS recharge AND damage.

    I think it's as simple as that.

    It'll slow others w/lower conceal, and cap agents, as it should be.

    PS: Agents also need a high end combination buff, like Frenzy of
    Shells (I think.), the equivalent of Sniper's Bliss, just higher level.
    I could cast Ua and TTS at 130. Agents need a Level 175 nano
    that adds a good 140 to rifle and another 165 to aimedshot.

    Right now, it's 70 levels with the same buff, much like sniper's
    bliss to UA. I think it's only fair. All other have high end buffs that
    combine an attack skill and a special into one nano, condensing
    the NCU cost to make room for other third party high end buffs.

    All of those compiled, I'd say this'd be pretty well off.
    Link to conceal? No way. Things are screwy enough as it is now with conceal.
    Better way maybe: Sniper's Bliss, Unexpected Attack, Take The Shot, and the Soldiers rifle nanos - self only.
    At title levels add x-xxx amount to aimed shot for agents only.
    Like Title 2 would be +25, then +50, 100, and so forth.
    Grupurt Division 9 [RSGE] Ret.
    Second Nanomage Agent To Hit Lvl 200 on RK1

    RK1

  16. #76
    Originally posted by Nothinman


    this is sadly, for the most part true.
    Regarding AS as a docs only for of damage in PvP. Should Docs
    rally for FC to make doc DoT's more devestating and quicker, if
    they cannot apparently use that as an adequete weapon on top
    of amazing healing, instead of worrying about a skill that's not
    native to them? IMO, and mine alone I'd think, nano classes
    should NOT have to rely on weapons to do their job well...

    But it's the way the game is, since those classes can weild
    weapons. That had to be factored in, as well, sadly. That's just
    how things are in a purely "skill based" game, though isn't it?

    Then again, if a doc asked for offensive nano power, we all know
    what would come up from other profession whiners. Heals.

    BTW, my above option for change doesn't hurt the Profs that
    might actually use the AS skill, badly. Sol's and Adv's. Both have
    blue skill in AS and Conceal both, or better, making it somewhat
    their skill, as well. No one else has a native weapon that uses AS,
    and cost affordable skills to invest in AS. (Yes, traders have shotguns
    that use AS/Fling, but those skills are optional and were not,
    obviously, considered in their design, made apparent by IP cost.

    Aside from Adv's/Agents/Sol's, no one else was even designed to
    use AS, so the change technically shouldn't even bother anyone else.)

  17. #77
    Originally posted by Grupert


    Link to conceal? No way. Things are screwy enough as it is now with conceal.
    Better way maybe: Sniper's Bliss, Unexpected Attack, Take The Shot, and the Soldiers rifle nanos - self only.
    At title levels add x-xxx amount to aimed shot for agents only.
    Like Title 2 would be +25, then +50, 100, and so forth.
    As a number that is a factor. We're not talking about LOS bugs
    and awareness problems. Just numbers that are inherently
    benefical as AS cycle factors, for agents. Just numbers. Now..

    Aside from our fear of linking conceal to AS (Which I did not suggest.)
    would you think of it? I'm not saying link conceal to AS's, where
    you'd need it to FIRE an AS, just have it (A modifer that agents
    can get MUCH higher than anyone else!) a part of the numbers game.

    BTW, just TTS and SB, I'd say. Aimedshot is the thing in question,
    not rifle. It's not the weapon that's unbalancing in the inproper
    hands, it's the special that's attached to it that is the problem.

  18. #78
    Originally posted by Morthoseth


    As a number that is a factor. We're not talking about LOS bugs
    and awareness problems. Just numbers that are inherently
    benefical as AS cycle factors, for agents. Just numbers. Now..

    Aside from our fear of linking conceal to AS (Which I did not suggest.)
    would you think of it? I'm not saying link conceal to AS's, where
    you'd need it to FIRE an AS, just have it (A modifer that agents
    can get MUCH higher than anyone else!) a part of the numbers game.

    BTW, just TTS and SB, I'd say. Aimedshot is the thing in question,
    not rifle. It's not the weapon that's unbalancing in the inproper
    hands, it's the special that's attached to it that is the problem.
    There is no problem with AS. Only the people that cry about it thats the problem. Many times I have done (pvp) 0 points of AS damage against someone. Or, 200 points of damage. This with 1159 rifle, 1200 AS with a 200 X-3.
    This tells me that those that caused me to do low damage know how to protect themselfs. And those that cry like spoiled 5 year olds do not know how to protect themselfs.
    Only time I would agree with linking conceal to AS would be if they returned pvp back to pre 12.6 conditions. Then you would have something.
    Grupurt Division 9 [RSGE] Ret.
    Second Nanomage Agent To Hit Lvl 200 on RK1

    RK1

  19. #79

    Please Momma hurt that bad agent man

    Woot! did a 3800 AS last night in tower pvp (on a player not a bot) against a high lvl enforcer. My highest in maybe !200! AS's taken in PvP in the last month or so. MY AS skill? 1160... My ranged init is gimped to hell but my AS is good and fast.

    Draw your own conclusions. My 40% AS % is very low in the last month and I have AS skill unattainable by many classes.

    My conclusion is that the FIRST and ONLY time this happens to someone they "come a wailin" straight to this forum.

    Imagine the "cryface" on a 2 year old...

    "MMOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMAAAAAAAAAAAAA!"

    "MMMMOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMAAAAAAAAAA!"

    "AUUUAAAAAAAAAAGGHGHGHHHHHHHGHGHGHGHGHGHHGHGHG H!"

    (Imagine the cryface getting especially contorted and pathetic)


    "HE KIIIILLLLLLLLLLLLLDDDDDDMMMMMEEEEEEMMMMMMOOOOMMMMM MMMMMAAAAAAAAAAAAAA... gonnnnna.. gonnnnnnaaa... GONNNAAA CANCELMYACCOUNTIFYOUDONTMAKEITBETTERMMOMMMMAAAAAAA AA!!"

    "It's alright dear, Momma will nerf the "bad old agent" this patch and the next patch and the next patch and the next patch and..."
    Last edited by Jutlina; Jan 17th, 2003 at 20:06:29.

  20. #80

    Re: Please Momma hurt that bad agent man

    Originally posted by Sanskrit
    Woot! did a 3800 AS last night in tower pvp (on a player not a bot) against a high lvl enforcer. My highest in maybe !200! AS's taken in PvP in the last month or so. MY AS skill? 1160... My ranged init is gimped to hell but my AS is good and fast.

    Draw your own conclusions. I'm 1/200 on 40% AS in the last month and I have AS skill unattainable by many classes.

    My conclusion is that the FIRST and ONLY time this happens to someone they "come a wailin" straight to this forum.

    Imagine the "cryface" on a 2 year old...

    "MMOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMAAAAAAAAAAAAA!"

    "MMMMOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMAAAAAAAAAA!"

    "AUUUAAAAAAAAAAGGHGHGHHHHHHHGHGHGHGHGHGHHGHGHG H!"

    (Imagine the cryface getting especially contorted and pathetic)


    "HE KIIIILLLLLLLLLLLLLDDDDDDMMMMMEEEEEEMMMMMMOOOOMMMMM MMMMMAAAAAAAAAAAAAA... gonnnnna.. gonnnnnnaaa... GONNNAAA CANCELMYACCOUNTIFYOUDONTMAKEITBETTERMMOMMMMAAAAAAA AA!!"

    "It's alright dear, Momma will nerf the "bad old agent" this patch and the next patch and the next patch and the next patch and..."
    Hehe. Sad but true.
    Grupurt Division 9 [RSGE] Ret.
    Second Nanomage Agent To Hit Lvl 200 on RK1

    RK1

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