Half the damage of all specials *and* half the recyle time of all specials
Same damage done over time, but less damage done instant. Discuss.
Half the damage of all specials *and* half the recyle time of all specials
Same damage done over time, but less damage done instant. Discuss.
Higest PvP aimedshot i have landed is 4.8k with my ithica. Was against an enf i seem to remeber. Seen a fair few 3k+ aimed shots too. Selfbuffed aimed shot is around 850
Remember "Jakeaway" Brigges
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Returned from the grave and back in business.....
Dumb. Move on to something else you want to nerf.Originally posted by Snublefot
Half the damage of all specials *and* half the recyle time of all specials
Same damage done over time, but less damage done instant. Discuss.
Grupurt Division 9 [RSGE] Ret.
Second Nanomage Agent To Hit Lvl 200 on RK1
RK1
Excellent point. Had lots of opportunities over the last several days for tower PvP. As a Cat using agent, I noticed that my AS varied between 0 (sloughing field), about 15% of the time, and 3800, which happened about 10 % of the time and only on people with HUGE hp. Most averaged 1500-1800 with suprisingly many 350s (the "well-buffed") in there. I got second AS's in on 2 people, and the only reason for that was that those people were being chain rooted by other players and weren't going anywhere anytime soon. But think about this, three people shooting at someone who is chain rooted long enough for me to have a second AS?? As you say, damage is nerfed ENOUGH ALREADY.Originally posted by Stromm
Also for a world of pvp where RRFE/ess/hot is almost an innate feature on everyone, there is abseloutley no room for whining. Damage is nerfed to the fullest extent by buffs, it is your choice to spend the time and go get them, if you do not, you will get creamed faster than anyone else.
The unfun thing in tower PvP is that offensive nanos, lag and CC are gumming up the battles. If damage weren't so nerfed, there might just be 1) fewer people on the battlefield and more at reclaim at any given time, thus reducing lag and CC 2) the big offensive nano classes (doctor, trader, NT, fixer and crat) might think twice about making themselves a target, 3) doctors might be forced to do more healing instead of handing out UBT, W&R, SNG and ASs from a well-nigh invulnerable position, and 4) people might have to come up with better gameplay than "mmm I have 9000 hp! Me tab-shoot-tab-shoot-tab-shoot-shoot. Me not die for long time!"
I mean think about it, FC, think of any squad based tactics game out there. Think about the careful planning and movement that people must do in those games to succeed and then think about what chaos goes on in your average tower battle. Players will be as lazy as you let them and nerfing damage further makes players more lazy.
Doesn't really surprise me, they gain more than they lose when AS is nerfed in relation to their primary specials.Originally posted by Stromm
Its also quite amazing to see soldiers are asking for weapon nerfs in this thread. I never thought i'd see the day.
OK here is the only thing in your post I find a little annoying, but generally agree with your point about doctors and their attempts to get kills. Just how do you propose to define "stealing someone's kills" in mass PvP? Perhaps you were making a joke, otherwise it makes no sense.Originally posted by Stromm
Now, if doctors stopped concentrating on stealing people's kills with AS's and HEALED PEOPLE IN BATTLES like they're supposed to, this wouldnt be such a problem.
I never get healed in mass PvP... never... by anyone, doctor, lawyer, indian chief. Why is this? For the moment I'm chalking it up to inexperience on the part of all. Once people begin to treat teams in mass pvp with the organization they apply to missions this should improve. The difference between a mass pvp battlefield and a mission is that there is no map that the simple "all lefts" or "all rights" can be applied to. PvP teams will require a very strong squad leader but this will happen if NW doesn't implode the whole game and bankrupt FC first.
Yes, and how quickly people forget the crit nerf that just took place. With TTS and an 8% VE I NEVER crit anymore.Originally posted by Stromm
Finally, ranged weapons gets an improvement and people start shouting nerf right away after such a long period of people whining about healing being 'overpowered.'
This is dangerous. They would nerf AS for all under the guise of doing the above and would make it so that no one has as high a chance of a good AS as they do now regardless of AR.Originally posted by Stromm
To reserve aimed shot for the prominent professions with it, they should change the way it works and make AS skill a 'supporting skill' rather than a determining one, which is what weapon skill and AS skill both are right now.
Just leave AS be. FC, spend resources on making PvP workable, not more unneeded nerfs. People are dying TOO SLOWLY in tower PvP. Doing anything to AS would exacerbate this problem.
I'm a 161 soldier
i usually use aql200 Nova, Flashpoint and Supernova
i have poor AS skill since i have only one Shining cluster for it and my 7% VE for a total of 500+ (havent put a single IP in)
i dont tower battle much though i like it very much
my highest AS in these battles was 3K i think
but more important: in PvP, AS is far more constant than FA.
and i'm surprised to swap between Nova and Supernova only in Pvp because of this.
FA is not reliable enough nowadays...
and AS refresh faster...
i believe when I put enough IP in AS it will rock very bad (can reach 1k with also a 8% VE and some IP)
c ya on the field!
To be...or not to be
Question...answer
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How is that a nerf? Your not constructive at all...Dumb. Move on to something else you want to nerf.
Your the one that is non-constructive by calling for a nerf. As said many times before, AS is fine, and if anything, due to the fact that folks are now getting HPs close to 14k, it should be abit more powerful IMHO.Originally posted by Snublefot
How is that a nerf? Your not constructive at all...
Change AS and you screw the agents. Period. No two ways about it, and we are sick and tired of all the nerfs we have had going back to the first nerf 2 weeks into the game.
So scram! And leave us agents the hell alone!
Grupurt Division 9 [RSGE] Ret.
Second Nanomage Agent To Hit Lvl 200 on RK1
RK1
You Grupert, is an ignorant fool.Your the one that is non-constructive by calling for a nerf. As said many times before, AS is fine, and if anything, due to the fact that folks are now getting HPs close to 14k, it should be abit more powerful IMHO.
Change AS and you screw the agents. Period. No two ways about it, and we are sick and tired of all the nerfs we have had going back to the first nerf 2 weeks into the game.
So scram! And leave us agents the hell alone!
How is 1k damage every 10s instead of 2K damage every 20s a nerf??? It would give you the same damage output, it would camouflage your damage output and that would keep YOU safe from any nerfcalls.
You refuse to argue, and use insults instead. People like you deserve a nerfbat the sice of a superior beam stuck up where the sun dont shine!
"How is 1k damage every 10s instead of 2K damage every 20s a nerf??? It would give you the same damage output, it would camouflage your damage output and that would keep YOU safe from any nerfcalls."
That would be BAD nerf.
Not all play their Agents like soldiers who stand there and duke it out till otherone drops.
I take AS + 3-4 shots and then I am already running if target isn't dead. Nerf the AS to half and I can as well start throwing rocks at them.
What good would it do me for AS to refresh again while I am running away? Nothing. So for me example your scenario would be bad nerf since as stated above, I am not standing there 30s shooting someone.
If I do I am VERY dead.
Zarch and da chars including Agent Daquis lvl 183
PS.
Every shot past 5th I take there is cumulative chance of 5% being dead. I take 20 shots in NW tower battles and I can bet that I am dead long before I reach that 20th shot.
Last edited by Zarch; Jan 21st, 2003 at 21:12:28.
Let's extrapolate. Would you rather be hit once for 20,000 points of damage or be hit 20,000 times, once each second, for one point of damage? Same damage output, right? You have to sustain 20,000 points of damage either way, right? What's the difference? Time to overcome the effects of the damage is the difference. In the one hit scenario you are dead, no chance to manage the damage by healing, being healed, stim, HOT, running away and hiding, whatever. You are just dead. In the multiple hit scenario you have tons of time to overcome the nature of the damage. The smoother curve is easier to deal with than the peaking curve. Is any of this sinking in?Originally posted by Snublefot
How is 1k damage every 10s instead of 2K damage every 20s a nerf??? It would give you the same damage output, it would camouflage your damage output and that would keep YOU safe from any nerfcalls.
Under your nerf, no one would ever die. Stretching out (nerfing) peak damage over time allows people time to run, to heal, to never get killed. There are any number of ways to counteract damage in this game. Those ways all stop working once there are less than 0 hitpoints and that is why peaking damage is necessary to outweigh healing
Overall damage output means NOTHING in PvP. Peak damage means everything. This principle is the ONLY thing that keeps agents from being the gimpiest profession in the game. We will almost never win a damage dump, but we can easily pour out more damage in less time (every few minutes) than any other profession.
You are proposing a nerf to any class that uses specials, but more importantly, you are proposing a huge boost to healing classes that don't need one more iota of PvP love.
for someone as old as my dad, grupert hasnt said one relevant thing.
just whining like a 6 year old about the bad men talking about his AS.
you dont like it? make some valid points or stfu.
Legion
|| 220 || || Soldier || || Obligatory Equipment listing ||
If you are going through hell, keep going.
- Sir Winston Churchill
After reading your posts on this topic, you have yet to post anything that does not contradict yourself.Originally posted by Nothinman
make some valid points or stfu.
And as for the above quote, practice what you preach.
Grupurt Division 9 [RSGE] Ret.
Second Nanomage Agent To Hit Lvl 200 on RK1
RK1
regardless, i have posted facts, arguments.. experiences something almost tangible, heck anything is better then..
"Waaahh stop calling nerf on me.. waaahhhh.. your all newbs.. wahhhh.. mommmy.. waaaaahhh.."
Legion
|| 220 || || Soldier || || Obligatory Equipment listing ||
If you are going through hell, keep going.
- Sir Winston Churchill
Dude, I'm just saying splitting the mods to conceal/aimedshotOriginally posted by Grupert
There is no problem with AS. Only the people that cry about it thats the problem. Many times I have done (pvp) 0 points of AS damage against someone. Or, 200 points of damage. This with 1159 rifle, 1200 AS with a 200 X-3.
This tells me that those that caused me to do low damage know how to protect themselfs. And those that cry like spoiled 5 year olds do not know how to protect themselfs.
Only time I would agree with linking conceal to AS would be if they returned pvp back to pre 12.6 conditions. Then you would have something.
would work in our favor, who is supposed to be the masters of
AS (but aren't currently). Crap, let me explain, bro.. look...
(We're not LINKING anything. Just divesting the mods in a more
balanced mean, considering ANYONE can have more AS than an agent!)
Let's get the stats going:
A Non-Agent. Hypothetical 1400 AS.
An agent, hypothetical 1200 AS.
(Mind you, I'd like the real numbers, for a real test.)
As seen above, though an agent is a supposed master, and it IS
his sole special on his rifle, though the other profession has
higher AS. No one can doubt that an agent will have lower AS skill.)
Under the current system, it works in anyone's favor but an agent's.
Now, change the mods to conceal-50%/AS-50%.
Non-agent:
1400 AimedShot.
1400 Conceal (buffed?)
Agent:
1200 AimedShot
2000 Conceal
With the current example, the modifer #'s look like this:
Agent AimedShot skill mod - 1600
Non-agent AimedShot skill mod - 1400
See how it works in our favor, having higher conceal? I realize
the numbers aren't really accurate, but it obviously puts the ball
back into the agent's court, where it naturally should be. Okay?
We can buff concealment by 600 more than anyone else. Under
the newer 50/50 modifer rule, that's an added 300 AS skill in our favor.
If you can't see the benefit, then I don't know what can make
you understand, man. I'm not talking perception checks, here...
And I'm not talking about this just being for concealed AS's.
I'm saying CHANGE HOW THE MODIFERS WORK. (FC...)