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Thread: Aimed Shot Recycle Time is Insane

  1. #1

    Aimed Shot Recycle Time is Insane

    Been doing a lot of research on choosing a PvP weapon. Then I learned how Aimed Shot recycles:

    Recharge Time x 40 - Aimed Shot Skill x 3 / 100

    Take a Caterwaul with a 1.1s recharge and 1100 Aimed Shot skill (achievable with Agents with Green AS or Ithaca users with Shining AS clusters.)

    That is 44 sec - 33 sec for an 11 second recharge. An Ithaca would take 16 seconds longer. Now couple that with the fact that Aimed Shot is armor piercing, crittable, the long range on almost all AS capable weapons, and subject the hit to multiples (1100 AS almost guarantees a 2x+ multiple) and we know why AS is the must have special in PvP.

    The only comparable non AS weapon I can think of is a MCS with its Burst which can get down to 8 seconds but the weapon is so short ranged, non crittable, and subject to Chemical AC that it doesn't come close to Aimed Shot.

    Aimed Shot in PvM isn't overpowered since you (usually) can only land one per mob. But in PvP it rules. No wonder Agents are unhappy to see almost every class using Rifles.

    I don't like nerfing anything but to bring Burst, Flingshot and Full Auto up means reducing the recycle times or increasing their damage. Then the game is all specials which automatically hit (maybe not Full Auto), refresh at a rate regardless of agg/def setting, and then who cares about Offensive rating except to calculate the damage. Dark Blue skills will be meaningless.

    I think high Aimed Shot skill gives too many benefits to the user. Not only do you get faster refresh but also higher chances of a 2x, 3x up to 5x bonus.

    My suggestion is either:

    1) that Aimed Shot not give multiples in PvP. Keep the crittability, keep the fast refresh rate but lose the multiples.
    2) Keep the current state but double PvP refresh time.

    Right now I don't see any good reasons why I would keep my SMG and not go Ithaca or Caterwaul. I'd rather not go cookie-cutter but there's isn't an alternative (not even Manex, Kick Pistol or PoP).

    P.S. I think this only became apparent after 14.6 "fixed" recharge time. Before only IP spent counted and I guess it affected specials refresh. Now with all Ability dribble down, implants and items affecting your AS, Burst, Flingshot skills and being used in the recycle calculation FC has totally changed the PvP landscape.
    Last edited by Autocrat/Seraph; Jan 13th, 2003 at 21:52:53.
    Autocratt Atrox Bureaucrat 200
    Current PvP Armor Setup
    Seraphfirst Nanomage MP 175 Current Fire Reflect Armor Setup (67%)

    Suggestions for Revising the Bureaucrat Profession
    1) Charming our own Droids
    2) A fear, and area snare as good as the enforcer's and fixer's
    3) New super short mez nanos and mez nano init changes for PvP
    4) The nuke changes
    5) Highly increased range on speech nanos

  2. #2
    Oh sshh, another one that got killed in pvp and think that nerfing something will make you live next time.

    Why wont ppl like you go away, go ruin another game bloody nerfmongers...
    Hermy
    Shadelore
    Retired.

  3. #3
    Originally posted by Hermy
    Oh sshh, another one that got killed in pvp and think that nerfing something will make you live next time.

    Why wont ppl like you go away, go ruin another game bloody nerfmongers...
    Wow, what a totally ignorant reply from a 12 year old.

    Nerfmonger I am not. Let's go back to pre 14.6 recycle time and see how things were when Caterwauls recycled every 26 seconds, MCS every 18 seconds, and Scopes debuffs did not affect recharge.
    Autocratt Atrox Bureaucrat 200
    Current PvP Armor Setup
    Seraphfirst Nanomage MP 175 Current Fire Reflect Armor Setup (67%)

    Suggestions for Revising the Bureaucrat Profession
    1) Charming our own Droids
    2) A fear, and area snare as good as the enforcer's and fixer's
    3) New super short mez nanos and mez nano init changes for PvP
    4) The nuke changes
    5) Highly increased range on speech nanos

  4. #4

  5. #5
    Originally posted by arsiine
    Your eqn is wrong.
    I took it from several sources in the Agent Forums. Seems about right in practice.
    Maybe we should just double all specials recycle time.
    Autocratt Atrox Bureaucrat 200
    Current PvP Armor Setup
    Seraphfirst Nanomage MP 175 Current Fire Reflect Armor Setup (67%)

    Suggestions for Revising the Bureaucrat Profession
    1) Charming our own Droids
    2) A fear, and area snare as good as the enforcer's and fixer's
    3) New super short mez nanos and mez nano init changes for PvP
    4) The nuke changes
    5) Highly increased range on speech nanos

  6. #6
    Umm..use a rifle then if it's SOOOOo great.
    -Finalizer Vixentrox-
    Former President and Founder,
    -Whisper's Edge-
    Former Member of the Atlantean CoT Clerical Staff

    Socializer 73% Killer 53% Explorer 53% Achiever 20%

    Kissysuzuki -
    WTB small enough brain and lack of imagination to be able to sit and solo hecklers for 5 days straight.

  7. #7
    Originally posted by Vixentrox
    Umm..use a rifle then if it's SOOOOo great.
    That was my point. Thanks.
    Autocratt Atrox Bureaucrat 200
    Current PvP Armor Setup
    Seraphfirst Nanomage MP 175 Current Fire Reflect Armor Setup (67%)

    Suggestions for Revising the Bureaucrat Profession
    1) Charming our own Droids
    2) A fear, and area snare as good as the enforcer's and fixer's
    3) New super short mez nanos and mez nano init changes for PvP
    4) The nuke changes
    5) Highly increased range on speech nanos

  8. #8

    Re: Aimed Shot Recycle Time is Insane

    Originally posted by Autocrat/Seraph
    Been doing a lot of research on choosing a PvP weapon. Then I learned how Aimed Shot recycles:

    Recharge Time x 40 - Aimed Shot Skill x 3 / 100

    Take a Caterwaul with a 1.1s recharge and 1100 Aimed Shot skill (achievable with Agents with Green AS or Ithaca users with Shining AS clusters.)

    That is 44 sec - 33 sec for an 11 second recharge. An Ithaca would take 16 seconds longer. Now couple that with the fact that Aimed Shot is armor piercing, crittable, the long range on almost all AS capable weapons, and subject the hit to multiples (1100 AS almost guarantees a 2x+ multiple) and we know why AS is the must have special in PvP.

    The only comparable non AS weapon I can think of is a MCS with its Burst which can get down to 8 seconds but the weapon is so short ranged, non crittable, and subject to Chemical AC that it doesn't come close to Aimed Shot.

    Aimed Shot in PvM isn't overpowered since you (usually) can only land one per mob. But in PvP it rules. No wonder Agents are unhappy to see almost every class using Rifles.

    I don't like nerfing anything but to bring Burst, Flingshot and Full Auto up means reducing the recycle times or increasing their damage. Then the game is all specials which automatically hit (maybe not Full Auto), refresh at a rate regardless of agg/def setting, and then who cares about Offensive rating except to calculate the damage. Dark Blue skills will be meaningless.

    I think high Aimed Shot skill gives too many benefits to the user. Not only do you get faster refresh but also higher chances of a 2x, 3x up to 5x bonus.

    My suggestion is either:

    1) that Aimed Shot not give multiples in PvP. Keep the crittability, keep the fast refresh rate but lose the multiples.
    2) Keep the current state but double PvP refresh time.

    Right now I don't see any good reasons why I would keep my SMG and not go Ithaca or Caterwaul. I'd rather not go cookie-cutter but there's isn't an alternative (not even Manex, Kick Pistol or PoP).

    P.S. I think this only became apparent after 14.6 "fixed" recharge time. Before only IP spent counted and I guess it affected specials refresh. Now with all Ability dribble down, implants and items affecting your AS, Burst, Flingshot skills and being used in the recycle calculation FC has totally changed the PvP landscape.
    I laugh at you. I really do. And your kind, the nerfers. You say you have been doing research? What did you do, level up a agent to what? Level 150, 160?
    No? Then you do not know what you are talking about. At all.
    Just this weekend I was at a tower battle in CAV, where I hit someone for UBER AS damage, 846 points! Then someone else for 642 points of AS! Or last week 'you did 0 points AS damage' on a Fixer.
    Against a person that is prepared, AS can be reduced to a pin prick. Or, nothing at all.
    Uber damage was done pre 12.6. Today it is a joke when people can have 12k+ health and you hit them for 300-800 points of AS damage.
    Grupurt Division 9 [RSGE] Ret.
    Second Nanomage Agent To Hit Lvl 200 on RK1

    RK1

  9. #9
    This is the reason why Im going to spend IP into AS hehe Instead of wanting something to be nerfed, you should use it at your advantage. Use an AS gun and make them bleed!

  10. #10
    's one of the hurdles soldiers need to clear at high levels is finding enough ip to pump aimedshot and heavy weapons (for the soldiers aimedshotgun). At that point we get a bit better.

    's also the reason doctors kick so much ass in pvp, they have this simple special which at the top end does 3-4 k hits every time. Aimedshot is uber and I quite enjoy using it in pvp myself .


    Aimeshot is a skill that reaps massive dividends for only a little ip outlay.
    Sredniaka Sherrmanaka Posthasteaka Thanatopsysaka Vashtareliusaka Nnerroaka Alexxander

    "Quidquid latine dictum, sit altum viditur"

    Sredni Vashtar went forth,
    His thoughts were red thoughts and his teeth were white.
    His enemies called for peace, but he brought them death.
    Sredni Vashtar the Beautiful.
    by HH Munro

  11. #11
    aimed shot doesnt need a nerf, some guns do. I'm a soldier with 800 AS skill who AS's everyone for 40% of thier hp almost every time, i dont want it nerfed.

    but i can also get nearly 1k self buffed rifle and 800 Aimed shot to equip a caterwaul and do 40% as every 15 seconds or so... kinda gay.

    adjust the speed of this special on the select few guns that are overpowered.. the only gun i can think of atm that is even remotly overpowered with AS is caterwaul in pvp.

    caterwaul dmg against me. 3k,miss,miss,100,50,miss,miss,4k, miss, 50, 160, miss,miss, 3.2k, miss... . .. .......... .. .. .4k.

    something is wrong with this pic when someone can AS u for those massive numbers every 15 seconds.

    i think what peopls problem is, is that it is recycling wayyyy to fast... but only on a few select weapons in a few select cases.

    im not supporting any kind of AS nerf just interjecting my opinion on the matter.
    Legion

    || 220 || || Soldier || || Obligatory Equipment listing ||


    If you are going through hell, keep going.
    -
    Sir Winston Churchill

  12. #12
    The funny thing is that rifle and AS are pretty much mutually exclusive for implants. However shotgun and as aren't. So those traders can implant AS while agents and other rifle users can't.

    Fair? Not really. Makes sense that traders can get higher AS skill than agents? Not really. Is FC going to re-order the implant locations? All signs point to no.

    Trader with TTS and AS/Shottie implants can probably get higher AS than an agent who implants Rifle instead of AS.

  13. #13
    True, Aimed Shot is a nasty special in PvP. Easily the best and why I will be going back to ithaca pretty soon. Luckily the weapons with Aimed Shot are not devestating on their own merit except coming from an agent who relies on it so much its fine or a soldier who again, is masters of weaponry.

    I dig what you mean though, recycle time is super fast.

  14. #14
    (1.10 x 40 = 44) - (966 * 3/100 = 28.98) = 15.02. Why does my AS recharge in 21-22 seconds. The eqn is wrong.

  15. #15
    Originally posted by Silvs
    The funny thing is that rifle and AS are pretty much mutually exclusive for implants. However shotgun and as aren't. So those traders can implant AS while agents and other rifle users can't.

    Fair? Not really. Makes sense that traders can get higher AS skill than agents? Not really. Is FC going to re-order the implant locations? All signs point to no.

    Trader with TTS and AS/Shottie implants can probably get higher AS than an agent who implants Rifle instead of AS.
    Not exactly true. At level 200 an Agent's base AS skill is 600 vs. 540 for a Soldier, vs. 480 for a Trader and 420 for Dark Blue classes. So even with imps some other classes can get close too but not exceed Agents.

    Well, getting Aimed Shotted every 11 seconds is as Nothinman said just doesn't seem right. Not sure you can adjust some weapons, well I guess you can increase the recharge on AS to 1.5+ but I still think doubling recharge on all specials should be investigated.
    Autocratt Atrox Bureaucrat 200
    Current PvP Armor Setup
    Seraphfirst Nanomage MP 175 Current Fire Reflect Armor Setup (67%)

    Suggestions for Revising the Bureaucrat Profession
    1) Charming our own Droids
    2) A fear, and area snare as good as the enforcer's and fixer's
    3) New super short mez nanos and mez nano init changes for PvP
    4) The nuke changes
    5) Highly increased range on speech nanos

  16. #16
    Hmm when I think about it.. a Special like AS which is such a devastating attack it shouldnt recycle too quickly.. o_O? But since 70% of this board is populated with AS user, I think Im gonna shut up

  17. #17

    What took so long

    Well the no. 1 best beyond belief special is aimed shot without a dobt. But if you actually think anyone that uses it to win in pvp is really going to agree with your facts you will be wasting your breath. For the others that read it you will be preaching to the chior. No matter ill just run from agents in fp enforcer doing as specials for 3k evey 10 or so sec.
    "We run for Radaman we run from the store clerk with his bull@#$% gun, i feel like im on a fu****** trackteam." 2pac-Juice

  18. #18
    Make it 11 or 15sec or 30sec nothing compared to our 2.5min FA recycle. Also don't forget you hit capped at full def or full agg it doesn't matter but a FA on full def is worthless. Also FA empties our gun and it goes into a reload mode after we do a FA.

    To make a AS equal to a FA then you have AS 3 times.

    First lower recycle of AS down to 2-3mins
    Second lower the chance of a capped AS if your target has a lower aggdef setting.
    Third go into a reload mode after you did a AS.

    Hey to make it clear I don't call for any of those nerfs - but I just want to point out that AS is 10 times more powerful as a FA is. Not to forget pvm as well. Seeing agents doing 20-30 AS in a bs mission when my soldier is happy to do 3-4 AS cause the long recycle time.

    What should we do? Nerfing the AS? I say no but then fix FA. Make it 10 times more powerfull to make it equal to AS. Which means increase the damage cap to 100k. Well stupid too or?

    I don't know how to fix it. Maybe implement the concelment-perception check in pvp too. So that you cannot AS when u aren't concelt. Which gives the agent the abilitie he wants. To sneak to stay hidden to do a 40% capped AS on his target and then with a few more normal shots he kills his target.

    But to see anyone doing AS ... AS .... AS .... all the time in pvp is unbalanced. I'm also was thinking of using a AS weapon as a soldier. Well I can survice 1 min with tms so no problem and in that time I would have 4 * 40% cap AS - Hmmm a free ticket for me to kill everyone! in pvp.
    You do it cause you have to do it - but you don't do it cause you want to do it.

  19. #19
    Originally posted by Whitesand
    Second lower the chance of a capped AS if your target has a lower aggdef setting.
    Third go into a reload mode after you did a AS.

    Hey to make it clear I don't call for any of those nerfs - but I just want to point out that AS is 10 times more powerful as a FA is. Not to forget pvm as well. Seeing agents doing 20-30 AS in a bs mission when my soldier is happy to do 3-4 AS cause the long recycle time.

    What should we do? Nerfing the AS? I say no but then fix FA. Make it 10 times more powerfull to make it equal to AS. Which means increase the damage cap to 100k. Well stupid too or?

    I don't know how to fix it. Maybe implement the concelment-perception check in pvp too. So that you cannot AS when u aren't concelt. Which gives the agent the abilitie he wants. To sneak to stay hidden to do a 40% capped AS on his target and then with a few more normal shots he kills his target.

    Umm... no guys.

    First of all, leave AS the HELL alone! I've played pretty much since
    release, it's been through hell and back, and it's finenow. Cats
    recycle fast, but not as damn fast as people say. And the agent
    PvM weapon, the X-3 recycles DAMN slow. (I have 970 init and
    900 AS skill, and it's slow as crap.) Agents should be able to
    AimedShot at will, because we have virtually no defenses until
    higher lv's and our rifles only have that one decent special. Okies?

    Besides, bud, being concealed won't matter. I'll just AS you, then
    shoot a bit with AC, and death's gaze you when it cycles, stun,
    reconceal, and repeat. It's really a frivolous mess when you think
    about it. I'm tired of people talking about AimedShot. However...

    AS won't hit 40% cap every time with such high HP's on peeps.
    But, let's say conceal is implemented? You know what? You better
    hike that damn damage cap up, because no other skill requires
    you to go through so much crap just to get it off, in this scenario.

    (I wonder if that actually works, hehehe... death's gaze.. can anyone confirm this?)

    If conceal somehow effected recycle time more than just the AS
    skill itself (Which almost anyone can get 1k+, trust me.), then
    agents would inherently have faster recycle time. AS IT SHOULD
    BE. Agents are master AimShotters. Damage should rely on the
    AS skill, given. But the rifle users main spec for increasing recycle
    time should be conceal, considering that's what AS is supposed
    to rely on. (Though we've all established it isn't a necessity to
    fire one.) Anyway, enough about AimedShot.. I'm just fueling fire.

    Want FA fixed? Fine, I'm all for it but don't even touch AS. Not
    that anyone cares, but if AS is slowed down anymore, you'll see
    hordes of agent middle fingers in the air. It's all we have going
    or us, and everyone knows it, so it's best to just make it a skill
    agents will excell at, but other profs have to work on to get it
    going at a decent speed. (ie, investing and buffing concealment..)

  20. #20
    No Agent uses an X-3 in PvM unless it happens to be a Unique with tons of health. Don't try and smokescreen this, Agent PvM is Caterwaul, Alsaqri or Zastaba.

    11 sec recharge on a devastating special is too slow? Gimme a break. Up to 5x multiples, armor piercing, crittable plus your own crit nanos, a 120 pt rifle buff with 130 specials buff.

    Face it FC, you had no clue what you unleashed when you fixed recharge in 14.6, clueless that it would affect specials recycling.

    I still say we double ALL specials recycling rates in PvP only. It gives about the same specials refresh as before 14.6 fix in PvP. That way people with High AMS (which is damn hard to get) will have the advantage over time. Aren't you agents going to be just as pissed when caster classes (like an ole crat) triple implant AS, stack on a QL 250 VE, get TTS for 1200+ AS skill and spit out an AS every 10 seconds with a Caterwaul for a 2-3x multiple? Because right now that is the way to go.

    REPEAT, double ALL specials recycling time in PvP only.
    Autocratt Atrox Bureaucrat 200
    Current PvP Armor Setup
    Seraphfirst Nanomage MP 175 Current Fire Reflect Armor Setup (67%)

    Suggestions for Revising the Bureaucrat Profession
    1) Charming our own Droids
    2) A fear, and area snare as good as the enforcer's and fixer's
    3) New super short mez nanos and mez nano init changes for PvP
    4) The nuke changes
    5) Highly increased range on speech nanos

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