Beating a dead horse, 100+ rider vs hammer

[Lynkz]

This question is directed to solitus enforcers level 100+
(everyone else, you're beautiful, but this doesn't involve you)

I'm sure this question has been asked a million times before, but post 100 would a solitus be better off using Riders or a Hammer?
Supporting arguments, pros, cons would be appreciated.

[__________BrutalThug]

Thank you Finally one who thinks i am beautyfull

Any enforcer 100+ would be better off with 1hb.. damage wise.
Solitus or Atrox.

2 alloys or 1 alloy and a lead pipe.
Pros.
You do most damage
beat that beam wielding Trox in pvp. Most stacking buffs for overequip.
Fast attack(+bugged FoB)

Cons.
You get aggro , hmm maybe that a pro ?
expensive in IP.
Before lvl100 u dont do good... that melee init need to be high before its good.

[Arinia]

BrutalThug, why havent you spoken up earlier. Please someone elaborate on this.

There's a reason why Mike Bond uses an alloy and a rider, I'm curious why.

Some people still swear by beams/hammers at 100+ Are they all wrong?

We've had numerous threads about weapons on here. Why the hell hasn't this come up before?

Should I be switching to 1hb at 100? Is it going to carry me to 200?

[Lynkz]

Yes, please elaborate.

[Megabio]

IMO, beams versus 1h blunt are dependant upon wether or not you want to go maxing melee initives. If not, 1h blunt is probably going to be better; but if you max melee ini. then the beam will probably be your best pet. (Getting 1.5/1 with a beam is not a bad deal - being that 1/1 is cap, 1h blunt will not be as great due to the fact that they are already fast)
~Chris

[Kinkstaah]

I use a rider and an alloy because I cannot use a beam. If I got an IP reset I would probably drop one or the other, I have better places to spend that IP (Which is not worth it IMHO)

Thats why.
If I could use a support beam, I most *Certainly* would.

[Thyrra]

i was looking at your pic mike and have a question.

did using those two weapons make you cross-eyed mike? or was it getting hit on the head as many times as you've been hit by now?

[______________Obitus]

A lvl 161 Atrox Enforcer just joined my guild and untill just 2 or 3 levels ago, he was using dual Rider Executioners.... He now uses a Beam.

We had a big discussion about Riders Vs. Beam and came to the following conclusions.

Since riders are dual wield, 2 Rider hits = 1 beam hit.

He could crit for 1500-2000 per blade with the Riders.
He does crit for 3000-3800 with the Beam.

On pure theory, the Riders should be just as good or better than the beam.

Riders = 2.5/2.5
Beam = 3.5/2.5

Dual crit from Rider = 3000-4000
Crit from Beam = 3000-3800

The numbers would make the Riders look very atractive. In theory. The reality of it is that most of the time, you will not crit with both blades at the same time. You might get a single crit for 1700 and the next hit will be from 200-500. (sometimes even less) So even with a Crit, the normal hit would be 2000-2500 or so. This will be 500-1800 less than a Beam. Because we assume that the crit rate for both weapons is the same, you can count on having better average crit damage with the Beam. Beam is also much more effective in PvP since is uses the Duck skill for defense. All of this combined with not having to spend IP on Heavy Weapons and Multimelee any more and not having to build implants with these clusters makes Beam the logical choice.

I love my Riders, but I think I will finally have to give in and go the way of the Beam. Lucky for me, starting next level, I get 80k IP to spend.

[Arinia]

So Mike, given an IP reset you wouldn't go with a hammer, rather 2x alloys (as I'm guessing 2x alloys is less IP intensive than 2x riders and their heavy weapons)?

[_____________Cloudeh]

1he is ****.

I used Rider Executioners till level 100 something.
I wore ql 154 Riders.

Now I use a hammer, before I used a ql 200 hammer I used my brothers ql 134 Hammer.
I did better than the riders.



As for riders doing that much dmg I got nowhere near 1k.

Also you have to remember Brutal, being in my guild you didnt see this part......

100 ac takes off 10 point of damage was it.

Now come back after working it out
QL200

Hammer goes from 1-906
Lead Pipe 3-222

Hmmmm
I dunno.
I trust my hammer.
I have fought along many enforcers with pipes and, wood things hehe but....
When observing there overal dmg It keeps me put with my hammer.


But ..if im wrong..When I have maxed 2hb Ill be upping 1hb :P
It will only take 2 levels or so

I already have 500 or so MM i think. "THINK"
I already have some skill in 1he from using the ql 154's.

I could always go back to them
.

Im aiming to put all of them up except 2he.

Just Imagine this with maxes init and Best rage.

http://www.hackersquest.org/ao/show....=125418&item=1

SLICE.SLICE.SLICE.SLICE.SLICE.SLICE.SLICE.SLICE.SL ICE.SLICE.
hehe: )

[__________BrutalThug]

Well I have posted 1hb superiority between 600 and 1800 melee init before

its all about speed and DPS (damage per second)

One from my Guild M.O.T.H.E.R posted on our website a large potion of calculations and whatnot. Well numbers are one thing but then he went and pvp'd another guildmember same lvl , i think it was 132 at the time and 1hb clearly won..

Since i havent got permission to post all those numbers yet
ill just drop these two links...

http://home.austin.rr.com/shakti/weapeval.htm

http://home.austin.rr.com/shakti/weapeval.xls

But remember !! this game isnt about being

<b> L337 R0zz0rz ü83R KING 0f Sh1Tz</b>

Its about having fun so stick to the weapon you like

[Laeni]

Well my enforcer is not 100+ (not even close!) so obviously I'm not speaking from any authority. I tried using hammers and yes they do wonderful damage but their slowness drove me crazy! I was getting hit for 3-4 times between swings and often times my swings would miss.

And my enforcer is a solitus so beams are right out.

So if you don't use hammers and can't use beams, are there any other blunt weapons that would be better than two riders? Cause what I like about blades is that they're FAST.

[Arinia]

But remember !! this game isnt about being

<b> L337 R0zz0rz ü83R KING 0f Sh1Tz</b>

Its about having fun so stick to the weapon you like

Brutal Thug, I hear you. But dealing the most damage makes me more effective, and lets the doc stay alive. Right now the hammer works well. I would prefer to do something more unconventional, but I've come way too far in 2hb to turn back now (I THINK).

If a date for an IP reset is set, perhaps I will sink points in 1hb and try em before the reset. If they don't work as well, I'll switch back after the reset

Otherwise, I did the weapon switching thing on my advent, he got gimped as a result. I'm not going to gimp myself again, I've spent too much time on this character.

If I would have known this about 1hb/being supposedly better at high levels, perhaps I would have done it from the start I don't know. Not being able to weild a beam means that I have one less choice in the already few choices available.


Please post those numbers for us when you get permission thanks

[__________BrutalThug]

Yeah more damage = more aggro = less "remains of Swicky (or other )" = better tank hehe

1. most buffs for 1hb "yes thugs delight stack"
2. Help fixers be not so gimped , pay them to cast "back pain" (sneak attack buff)
3. Mingle with plummers (lead pipe description)
4. Use a "fury of blows" + extra attack "Fast Attack"
5. No blue heavy weapons req.
6. Some kind of uniqeness (unless you go to Broken shores, almost all the really high lvl Enforcers use 1hb)
7. Kiss two weapons goodnigth instead of just one.

all sorts of reasons to use 1hb

but 8. Never to be confused where to spend IP.. 6 skill Req's

[Arinia]

When did you switch? I was browsing through some old threads and noticed that you used to use 2hb.

Are you gimped?

How bad?

What QL weapons are you using now? What level are you now?

Can YOU compete with a 2hb enforcer of the same level even though you switched?

IP crunch: I'm beating it now. I like beating the IP crunch. Are my nanos going to suffer a lot?

I'm seriously considering dumping the hammer as I'm title capped and can self equip my 188 hammer now, especially after all these discussions, and especially after

unless you go to Broken shores, almost all the really high lvl Enforcers use 1hb

I'm sad. I thought 2hb was god.

[__________BrutalThug]

I havent switched and probably wont i like my beam
I am 32% gimped (maxed psychology, i want a ql200 aggro enhancer jealousy augmented)
And i still have no nukes !!!?!?! Cosmik ?? can we please get a reply ?

I just dont like to see the newbie advice be like :

Go 2hb its the best

when it isnt the only viable way to go.

I had a Stun baton wielder before this char and he was seriuosly gimped in the nano part. But the people in my guild that use 1hb dont seem to be behind in buffs. Actually i had one buff "Immolation shield" on me before i got it, but i went straight for the "BrutalThug" buff and he probably wasnt.

[Kinkstaah]

LOL, dunno what server you are playing on BT.

90%+ Of enforcers are beamers at high levels. Dont worry.
Native staves as you get high - Do fall behind. Why I hear you ask? Because of their multi requirements being absolutely through the roof.

I'll let you know right now, I cannot get the agro off a beam user 40 levels below me in a mission. Can't be done. It just doesn't happen.

Now, If you could use *two* 1hb staves. Then yes. I would say it's a viable choice, and it would probably be my one. But it's not possible. And having a gimp offhand weapon, well.. will.. gimp you.

Something worth noting also, is that a rider warblade, does pretty much identical damage to a beam user if you never crit. Now, if they make crit buffs MA only as is rumoured, it may become a far more viable weapon as it is a little quicker, and also harder hitting.

Also a Blade of Mourning - Has nice high min damage and a built in 2he buff at higher levels. Also quick, has fast attack also.

There are really a lot of options out there. But people DO want teh best. And the best, without question, is the Support beam.

[Arinia]

I moved the discussion to it's own thread.

http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...?threadid=9118

I did some calculations too. Don't shoot me for starting another thread, but we really haven't had much 1hb vs 2hb discussion yet (with real numbers).

[__________BrutalThug]

hehehe well i dont pretend to be 100% sure that 1hb is "the best" at high lvl play.. ive heard it and trust the dude saying it
which then again makes me 100% procent sure but dont go about and trust me.

1hb PVP

He duelled a Enforcer with a beam his lvl 132 and won clearly..
they have the same buffs and probably the same armor dunno really. this is PVP and evades matter so if the other enf hadnt raised duck the outcome would have been different but ppl pvp'ing at higher lvl get to know those Shotties and beams fairly quick and start raising evade to avoid crits.

crits:

u start with a 2% (99% sure)
then u get extra % chances of crits dependent on attackers ATK rating and the attackeds evade...
So raising duck means less crits and therefore base damage , DPS is important.

And with no crits beams are not <That> good compared to 1hb weapons(using weapon analyser go see link in other post here)
DPS:

alloy: 555.87
lead pipe : 312.76 combined with alloy = 868.73 (Dont trust this number to much, ive heard about 1.33 slowdown on multi wield)
beam: 478.27
hammer: 458.03

All numbers are with 600 melee Init.
Make of these numbers what u like.. maybe the weapon analyser is wrong.

These numbers dont include Crits.
Dual wielding will raise ur ATK rating therefore also the chance of crits!

BUT..

1800 meelee init
hammer 1376.37 DPS
beam 836.97 DPS

get that bugged FOB

1hb PVM

well the numbers with DPS is the same. But now there is also mob AC to look at. this is when 1hb gets worse since they have a lower damage per hit. And i have no info on this as of yet.
Getting aggro from a beam user is hard since the MOb hate list doesnt count on actual damage done, but who hits for most <one> time. Just do a "fearsome shout" or what they are called or gimp like me and raise Psychology.

<<90% are beamers>>

go look around on 140+ ppl and see what weapon they carry. It might be me who only see those (european time zone) but they use Alloys to get better ATK rating or so they say


Well i guess u are playing on RK2 and the only high lvl enforcer is Dna. :P

[__________BrutalThug]

grrr i write SOOOO slow :P

Well i would be more than happy to have my numbers not to be true, since i actually use a beam hehe

I just dont like to advice a newcomer to the game that 2hb is >The< best if it isnt