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Thread: A new way to travel: Waldram's Stutter Warp

  1. #1

    A new way to travel: Waldram's Stutter Warp

    The 'Give remote grid access to all profs' thread on the Next Patch forum died for me when Lilnymph drove the point home to me that asking for more of the same, only now for everyone, was a very easy and totally not original thing to do, and while I disagreed that giving Grid to the masses was that big a deal, I do dislike copycatting and unoriginality, and had to agree with her that coming up with something else would be much much better.

    In the end of that thread I took it upon me, and indeed encouraged others, to think of some NEW kind of travel thingy.
    Which was very hard, because in RL there is only one way of travelling, and in AO there are only 2.

    In RL, as in AO, travel consists of going places through normal space, and so if you want to go from point A to point Z, you HAVE to go through all the other letters in order to get there. Taking a train, plane, car or just hoofing it, they are all just variables in speed.

    In AO we run everywhere, and even our planes and cars are only just a modifier to our basic Run Speed, so that if you are a fast runner your plane goes faster too, which looks absolutely absurd once you write it down, but I find AO gets easier to play if you disconnect your logical processes (but try to retain your common sense). The bottom line of this is that any improvement for any prof in the way of normal space travel in AO would boil, once you remove the trivia, down to a simple Run Buff.

    This is a problem for someone trying to come up with a new transportation mode. It's a problem because Run Buffs are a Fixer speciality, and so there might be some objections from them.

    Not that it really matters, because a Run Buff for other profs would just be more copycatting, and in fact even less original than the public grid evac idea, and so for me it's a complete and utterly forbidden no-go area.

    This brings us over to the OTHER way of travelling, available ONLY to the blessed inhabitants of Rubi-Ka, which is the shortcut. We have 2 short cuts, Grid or Whompah, both of which means that we don't have to go through all those tedious 24 other letters of the alphabet (3 more if you're Scandinavian, and the Chinese are of course a completely different matter). The Whompahs are a completely fixed, no travel needed at all between A and Z kind of short cut, and the Grid requires a bit of movement, but not very much compared to the actual, normal space distance travelled (although if you decided to go from Old Athens to West Athens by Grid you might find that just running there would have been faster, especially since there is only one zoning involved in running there).

    So, to sum up what everyone already know, each individual Whompah has one or two fixed destinations, with NO travel needed for same, and each individual Grid Term is, in potentia, connected to all other Grid Terms, with SOME travel needed for your destination.

    And if I can't give (the word give here used in the extreme circumstance that my idea would actually be used) another prof a Run Buff, then I would have to give them a short cut.

    Giving another prof their very own kind of Whompah structure I did not even consider...

    The Grid (or something Grid like) is completely out of course, and although I did have (I think) a kick-ass idea for MP transportation, I deemed that one to at least vaguely resemble the Grid, at least to hostile eyes (and I do believe that at least some of the eyes that saw it would be hostile), and so I have canned that one for now.

    Which bring us to the finale of this extremely long, tedious and pompous post: My idea for a new way of travelling, and this one is for Engineers. I don't think anyone will argue that Engies don't deserve SOMETHING, and this one could be considered some kind of consolation prize at least, seeing as the whole pathing thing seems to be taking some time.

    So with no further painful drawing out of time, here is my idea:

    Waldram's Stutter Warp

    The Engineer forms a miniature warp gate anomaly around himself and his pet, and by manipulating the anomaly uses this to 'jump' relatively short distances within his LoS. The effect of this is that the Engineer can travel 1 (one) map square at a time in the direction he chooses. Some care should be taken while using the stutter warp, as trying to zone while using it might result in a crossdimensional superstring conflict, with catastrophic results for the Engineer.

    Requirements:

    Nano Cost: 50
    Cast: 1 sec
    Recharge: 1 sec
    NCU: 1
    QL: 50
    Prof: Engineer
    Lvl: 50
    MM 230
    MC 230
    TS 230
    Not in combat
    If used while changing zones, 10% chance of big spectacular explosion, and a swift return to Reclaim





    Ok, first of all, the numbers on display here are all taken pretty much out of thin air, and are of course debatable. I put a lvl req (which I consider to be evil) because FC seems to like them very much, and I'm trying to package it a bit here. Ditto the zoning penalty.

    Points I'd very much like to have people debate in addition to numbers, reqs and penalty:

    1: Is there even any point? Would it result in an actual increase in travel speed?
    1a: If there is a point, would the travel speed gained be WAY TOO much?
    1b: If there is a point, should it be implemented, and how hard would that be?
    2: Should it be part of a line of nanos, so that the uber Nobel engineers could warp 2, 3, 4, 5 map squares at a time?
    3: Is it unfair to give the Engies this? Meaning, will it detract from some other prof?

    And this concludes todays presentation...
    Reverend Revelator Ramagano, Proud Something of Alpha Omega

    Alpha Omega: Fighting For Your Future, Today

    No, I'm not back.

    How embarrassing, after all these years it turns out I CAN'T spell **ncom with an F and a U, talk about egg on my face eh?

  2. #2
    Just finished reading ya post, and I must say it is one of the most original posts Ive seen here, and pretty well thought out.

    Now I do have to question Its usefulness, how fast could an Engineer actually travel with this? They already have a warp nano to pull people to them, so in effect why couldnt they use that warp in other applications. While the idea might not totally fly with FC (or maybe never know with them). Wouldnt it be more effective if say an Engineer could use this on their pet to warp their pet to places within their LOS (even if they made it a uber rare nano like GA, or NS). I would think this would be of use to a engie, specially in light of pet pathing, and the fact that a engies prime weapon is its bot, so why couldnt they warp their bot to places within their LOS.

    I hope some engies post into this topic, instead of 2 advs talking about it for them

    Jagdtyger
    Vampiira

  3. #3
    Sounds good to me, although, with your current reqs, maybe too easy for low levels and/or too fast cast/recharge.
    Stercoral.

    Circle G Inc. - Your safety is our business.
    http://nattguiden.no/circle-g/

  4. #4
    Originally posted by JagdTyger

    Wouldnt it be more effective if say an Engineer could use this on their pet to warp their pet to places within their LOS (even if they made it a uber rare nano like GA, or NS). I would think this would be of use to a engie, specially in light of pet pathing, and the fact that a engies prime weapon is its bot, so why couldnt they warp their bot to places within their LOS.

    Well, I set out to make a travel accessory, because I knew that if I brought combat (in whatever form) into this I would basically open a whole can of whoopbehind on myself. This is for travel only, which is why I slapped the "Must not be in combat" req on it (and I forgot to also give it a "Must be outdoors" req, because I think this would be a really bad idea to use indoors), although I think (but am not sure) that people wouldn't really mind if an Engie could stutter warp away BEFORE they got aggro in a tower battle, if he/she/it should decide to make a beeline for the hills.

    But if they could zap around at will on the battlefield and in the arena, I believe there would be a great outcry of "NO WAY!!!!"

    Also, because both the Engie AND the pet (which should probably be in /Follow or /Behind mode for it to work) gets stutter warped at the same time, this would actually fix the pathing for travel at least. Although once again I must say that I have no idea how, for example, flying around in a Yalm would affect pathing, maybe it's just pathing in combat and indoors generally that bites?

    The quest idea is btw a GREAT idea, obviously there is nothing wrong with the Engies working a bit at getting it, and you could have a lot of fun making them find 'special' carbon rocks, making them run their pet through an insane maze to pick up the ID, getting a Jensen OE 'customized' by the mad ghost of Stephen Hawking, blah blah blah.

    Not that I'm saying that it would be wrong to let them just buy it at the cornershop, but a proper quest thing with puzzles and epic journeying and stuff might actually a fun thing.

    As you say Jagd, this is obviously something that Engies themselves need to look into and discuss, they would both have better reason and indeed knowledge to do it. I just did it as an intellectual challenge to myself, to see if I COULD come up with something a least slightly original and new on the subject.

    Oh, and I also maybe managed to find a (again slightly) original way to give Sols an actual Run Buff, but that one too will have to wait for a different posting.
    Reverend Revelator Ramagano, Proud Something of Alpha Omega

    Alpha Omega: Fighting For Your Future, Today

    No, I'm not back.

    How embarrassing, after all these years it turns out I CAN'T spell **ncom with an F and a U, talk about egg on my face eh?

  5. #5
    Originally posted by Stercoral
    Sounds good to me, although, with your current reqs, maybe too easy for low levels and/or too fast cast/recharge.
    Yeah, the numbers were almost literally taken out of thin air, I bet all the reqs would have to be tweaked quite a bit before you could even think of testing it out.

    I set the cast/recharge at 1/1 because 1 map grid every 2 secs should be pretty fast, but I haven't tested out how fast I cross a map square myself, so I need to check that and get back to you on it.
    Reverend Revelator Ramagano, Proud Something of Alpha Omega

    Alpha Omega: Fighting For Your Future, Today

    No, I'm not back.

    How embarrassing, after all these years it turns out I CAN'T spell **ncom with an F and a U, talk about egg on my face eh?

  6. #6
    Bump?
    Reverend Revelator Ramagano, Proud Something of Alpha Omega

    Alpha Omega: Fighting For Your Future, Today

    No, I'm not back.

    How embarrassing, after all these years it turns out I CAN'T spell **ncom with an F and a U, talk about egg on my face eh?

  7. #7

    Been playing Giants recently?

    I see what you are saying, and your discussion is excellent. I envisioned what you are saying is akin to the sea nymph movement in Giants, which was utterly amazing to play. I think this is a great idea, for both engies, who need something cool, and for MA - who would benefit from it as the Nymph did in Giants.

    I see two main problems. both of them are old boring debates I would rather referrence than bring up for yet another endless rehashing of old threads.

    Point 1 is that we are an RPG rather than a FPS. It seeems that many people have taken this arguement to a panacea of all woes and great excuse. It seems that some people feel that the numbers game is more important than the viceral feel, and so in this case if someone were to warp, and the dice had already been roled in the transaction, the effect would still hit. you can see this when buffing someone running away from you, the buff will still take place, even if at the end of the cast, the target is out of range. My conclusion to this part of the argument, is that some people enjoy playing the game while in altered states of consiousness, and anything approaching FPS behavior would cause them to spill their beer, and not beable to play.

    Point 2. AO doesnt do a good job of distances. Lets face it, there are rubber band warps, black doors, pet pathing issues, mobs stuck on chairs, ranges are not an important factor for most items, there is no height or distance advantage, mobs on the horizon that are attacked appear immediately at the attacker and so on. The visual and distance range does not factor deeply into gameplay. If distance / range / height were to be fixed, then this would be amazing way to play. for example, an engie would run into the main room, get everyone to aggro, then warp to a place of safety. this would provide enough time for the rest of the team to get their alpha strikes and nukes off, and the croud of mobs would be decimated, meanwhile engie continues to pop off his pistols at the survivors.

    My feeling is that if distance mechanics were reexamined, and the drunken inflexible rpg flamers were silenced (or just stoned further), then this would provide a strong addition to the game.

    (on the point of zones, I would rather see them get rid of zones all together, with one large continous gameplay area. If the code could be elevated to a yet unavailable level the only thing i could see us loosing with zones is the ability to soft reboot your character by zoning)

    Ani
    PLEASE, give use a simple YES or no answer as to whether or not the CoH chests can be opened

  8. #8
    Excellent Idea.

    This is a truly innovative idea, and it's quite in tone for engineers.
    And please, make it a quest! No more claw-camping!
    *bump*
    Maimgara - Supreme Creator, The Renaissance - RK2
    [Thedeacon]: As for the "high level n00b" part....Hey, I don't care if they level up....puts them in pvp range quicker.

  9. #9
    What if, in massPvP, you rush into a hotspot and got snared/rooted, then the person who did that to you died. You'd no longer be in combat, but you'd obviously be in danger very soon. You could use this nano to instantly get out of the combat area where as everyone else would have to try to break the snare/root before they were attacked by the next person. Maybe that's a good thing.

    Also, this nano should have an "outdoor only" req on it. First, I'm sure it'd be a nightmare with people warping themselves into mission walls. Second, it looks like one of the new dungeons will disable runbuffs, but this nano would effectively act in the same way (I'm guessing the point of the anti-runbuff dungeon is so you can't blitz to the end).

  10. #10

    Outdoor only yes

    Yes, I realized that I'd forgotten the outdoor only req.

    As for battlefield use, if you got aggro (or the bot has aggro) then you can't stutter warp away. If you DON'T have aggro, I personally believe you should be allowed to stutter away from it if you should so choose.

    Given that, I think that snares wouldn't stop you from stuttering away, because all snare does is reduce your Run Speed, and the stutter warp is independent of Run Speed. You'd still HAVE the snare when you got away.

    Root is slightly different I think, and a bit of knotty one. It depends on how the RP mechanics IMO, because if what a Root does EXACTLY would determnine whether or not an Engie could stutter away or not.

    If a Root is meant to physically root you to a SPOT, then trying to stutter should probably not only be impossible, it should maybe have the same penalty as trying to zone while stuttering.

    If a Root is meant to just lock up all your muscles so that you simply can't move at all, then I figure you could stutter away at will, and bring your Root with you.

    That being said, I figure the first alternative is the right one, because while rooted you can still fight, cast nanos and turn around. So it obviously doesn't lock your muscles, or at least not all muscles. Gonna have to actually read the description on the root nanos to find out. Might be that some you can stutter, some you can't.

    Oh, and the cast/recharge time needs to be higher, with 2000+ Run Speed I can cross a map square in 4 sec, and so for a lvl 50 Engie to do it in 2 sec might be a bit over the top. Change it to 4/4 or so and it is still quite a boost.
    Reverend Revelator Ramagano, Proud Something of Alpha Omega

    Alpha Omega: Fighting For Your Future, Today

    No, I'm not back.

    How embarrassing, after all these years it turns out I CAN'T spell **ncom with an F and a U, talk about egg on my face eh?

  11. #11

    Indoors too...

    I would suggest that it might play a use indoors. Right now there are some pretty big rooms, and from what i hear, that number of large rooms will be increasing. With a bit of adaption, and maybe warp 2 ledges put into some of the big room, engies could feel the love they have missed. For example, most first large rooms could have a new ledge or pillar stuck into them, with a bit of luck and practice, the engie could get to the place of safty, and pick off the 3 - 4 mobs in the room using height advantage. This would more than compensate for some of engies comparative weaknesses. Also, in team play its value would be balanced by the aggro getting turned on other characters. As it would have to be restricted to line of site warps, you would not have the problem of warping into solid objects.

    Just a few thoughts.

    Ani.
    PLEASE, give use a simple YES or no answer as to whether or not the CoH chests can be opened

  12. #12
    I like better an idea where the engineer sets up some sort of a homing beacon that they canwarp themself to as they please. Might piss off the NTs tough
    ?

  13. #13
    Originally posted by Zicoz
    I like better an idea where the engineer sets up some sort of a homing beacon that they canwarp themself to as they please. Might piss off the NTs tough

    That one's been suggested a number of time by various people in the engi forum and no one ever seems to bite.... I don't know why; I like it too.


    As for the stutter thing: It sounds like it might be useful. But I'm not up on the game machanics, how big are the map squares?

    DO I have to recast every time I want to move like this or do I just turn it on and take big map-square sized steps till I turn it off?

    I like the idea of giving engi something new and good but this seems too hard to code in a lot of ways. Of course if Funcom can over come pet pathing problems they should be able to do this. But like Animosity said this game's really bad with distances and elevations
    ===============================
    I like this game `cause my Avatar kinda looks like me....

  14. #14
    Originally posted by OneChrisN



    That one's been suggested a number of time by various people in the engi forum and no one ever seems to bite.... I don't know why; I like it too.


    As for the stutter thing: It sounds like it might be useful. But I'm not up on the game machanics, how big are the map squares?

    DO I have to recast every time I want to move like this or do I just turn it on and take big map-square sized steps till I turn it off?

    I like the idea of giving engi something new and good but this seems too hard to code in a lot of ways. Of course if Funcom can over come pet pathing problems they should be able to do this. But like Animosity said this game's really bad with distances and elevations
    I envisioned that you'd have to spam the hotkey for the nano everytime you wanted to move, instead of turning it on and off, for 2 reasons:

    1: This way the cast/recharge time regulates the speed, plus nano cost (which I have probably set ridiculously low) will determine how costly it is, in casting terms.

    2. If you could turn it on and off, and press the arrow key (or, heaven help you, auto-run) it would be very hard to control.


    Heheh, it should be really easy to code, because all they have to do is reverse the new travel toy that EVERYONE is currently enjoying on Rubi-Ka, and that is the rubberbanding.

    If they can make it happen backwards, surely they can run it forwards too?

    And the reverse beacon warp does make a lot of sense, must really bite for you engies to have an excellent travel tool that is only ever of any use to OTHER people.
    Reverend Revelator Ramagano, Proud Something of Alpha Omega

    Alpha Omega: Fighting For Your Future, Today

    No, I'm not back.

    How embarrassing, after all these years it turns out I CAN'T spell **ncom with an F and a U, talk about egg on my face eh?

  15. #15
    Originally posted by Revelator

    And the reverse beacon warp does make a lot of sense, must really bite for you engies to have an excellent travel tool that is only ever of any use to OTHER people.
    Yeah, FC gave us that because everone was complaning about not being usefull in teams. Now we'er taxies with retarded robot pets.
    Nothing like sending the weakest guy in first so he can pull the real fighters in more conveniently.

    But I had another idea while typing. I don't think it fits here persay. This thread's about travel not so much about engis. My Idea's for engis and not so much about travel
    ===============================
    I like this game `cause my Avatar kinda looks like me....

  16. #16
    Originally posted by Zicoz
    I like better an idea where the engineer sets up some sort of a homing beacon that they canwarp themself to as they please. Might piss off the NTs tough
    A homing beacon involves such a huge number of possible exploits that no sane company would just hand it to anyone. End of story.
    Spewing truth from every orifice.
    Fixanox - Member of Eternal Fury.
    Cronoco

  17. #17
    I like this idea. I have a yalm, I use the grid, whompahs and all of that, and while travel in this game is not as big an issue as in other games, It would be nice if traveling could be quicker, so I could worry more about leveling and getting to where I'm going rather than having to worry about wether I'm going to fall asleep at the keyboard.

    Ditto with the beacon thing. To exploitable.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "Even if your minds confused,
    then this is what you need to do,
    you need to get that mixed up feeling upside in from out of you" -Mr. Bones

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