Making buffs smaller

[_______________Hypos]

Recently, the idea came out about making a version of the nano skills buffs that had a smaller NCU footprint but was self-only.

After letting it rattle around in my head for a while (lots of rattling room there), I think we should also ask for a version that is smaller footprint and can be cast on anyone, but only has a 10 min duration. The advantage is that others will like it better than the existing buffs because of size - but they'll have to have the MP around to keep it going.

Yes, it could be a pain to keep refreshing buffs on multiple team mates and I don't see it as being popular in mass PvP. But it should give a little bump to the desireability of MPs in team xp missions/hunting.

[Dudicas]

It's called a wrangle

[Alpherah]

Be gone uneducated troll! Back to the pits of trolldome..
And should thou refuse to return to where ones self once came, well, Thedeacon will sort you out like only he knows how

[edit] Crap.. just realised my pc's been turned on for 42 hours lol eeek time to give it a rest (been downloading movies over night and stuff..)

[Dudicas]

Originally posted by p0is0n
[B]Be gone uneducated troll! Back to the pits of trolldome..
And should thou refuse to return to where ones self once came, well, Thedeacon will sort you out like only he knows how

You obviously have no clue who I am. Do yourself a favor and look up who organised and ran the metacons for the first six months of the game.

[Alpherah]

sorry, but "its called a wrangle" is a trollish answer imo.

And i couldnt care less who you are, im entitled to my opinion.

I suggest we leave this here.

[Xtremtech]

H,

Sorry I missed this one. It's been kinda busy round here recently.

I mentioned this in another thread but I'm very worried about the tendency we have right now to try to force people to team with us by only making our buffs available when we are around. I'm going to quote from that other thread:

The aura nanoskill buff solution is one I do understand - but it's a fix to the wrong problem. Many MPs find it hard to get teams at the moment because people know the issues with pet pathing. Fix pet pathing reasonably well so that our pets contribute the damage they can - and we'll be wanted in teams again. It's that simple.

Trying to force people to team with us through making the buffs AoE - won't necessarily work anyway. People would still know that our pets would slow them down or not be there to contribute their damage and as a result they still wouldn't team with us - they'd just make do with the next best set of nanos.

As Dudicas, somewhat brusquely, points out - the traders essentially have the all nanoskills, short term buff (which also includes all weapons skills...) and yet you won't find many teams running a constant wrangle. The long term nature of our nanoskills buffs, and our ability to precisely match the required skills buff to within 5 points is what makes the MP buffs so good. If we sacrifice that - then we sacrifice the utility of the buffs themselves and that is something we certainly don't want.

Let's not try to fix our teaming by nerfing our own strong points. Let's focus on improving our weak points so that we are sought after again in teams.

X

[_______________Hypos]

... ... ...
In a glaring streak of generosity, I deleted several paragraphs of text as I realized that you had to already know all of it. Here's what I have left:

I'm not saying to change the existing buffs. As long as the current buffs stay as they are, I can't see this as a nerf.

Just add versions with smaller NCU footprints. People will want it for that reason alone. The fact that they need to have the MP around because of the shorter duration is just a nice bonus for MPs. Does it guarantee you a team? No. It's just a little extra bump.

Current nano :BioMet Mastery, 12 NCU, 2700s duration, +50 BioMet
Added nano: Compressed BioMet Mastery, 6 NCU, 600s duration, +50 BioMet

Let the person to be buffed tell you which one he wants (just like he does now). If he's in your team, he'll ask for the compressed version. If not, he'll ask for the normal version. The team will be better off if the MP is in the team because they'll have the MP buffs and have more room left for other buffs. If the MP is not in the team, then it's back to the current status quo.

[Hamini]

mps are already such buff machines as is...do you really want to have your whole team asking you for mini mochams every 10 minutes, instead of asking for real mochams once every 60 minutes?

id much rather see some good fixes to pet pathing..

[talornin]

Originally posted by Hypos
Recently, the idea came out about making a version of the nano skills buffs that had a smaller NCU footprint but was self-only.

After letting it rattle around in my head for a while (lots of rattling room there), I think we should also ask for a version that is smaller footprint and can be cast on anyone, but only has a 10 min duration. The advantage is that others will like it better than the existing buffs because of size - but they'll have to have the MP around to keep it going.

Yes, it could be a pain to keep refreshing buffs on multiple team mates and I don't see it as being popular in mass PvP. But it should give a little bump to the desireability of MPs in team xp missions/hunting.

If they make these low ncu buffs not self only I will 100% sure quit my MP. I havent thought this thru, but my initial feeling about it is horror. I cant imagine...oh...no! God NO!

[_______________Hypos]

ok, ok, I'm sorry. ok.

[Toxinator]

Originally posted by Dudicas


You obviously have no clue who I am. Do yourself a favor and look up who organised and ran the metacons for the first six months of the game.

Fist of Chronos if i remember correctly back from the "HoC days"

[Xtremtech]

H,

Oh I see.. my bad. I think I was mis-reading based on my own assumptions. Sorry.

It's not a bad idea to have a smaller footprint buff - though I do see Tal's point with the recasting. I think it would probably still end up in competition with the wrangle - which of course would simply blow it away in terms of content.

Can't see it... but interesting idea.

X

[Xtremtech]

How about just trying to get the footprint on the existing buff range reduced some? Mochams 40 NCU, Infuses 30 NCU etc... Leave the duration and everything else the same but just reduce the footprint on them a little?

I know FC usually want to see some give and take - which may be why you suggested smaller footprint so shorter duration. How about a different range of buffs with a smaller footprint that used huge amounts of nano to cast? Or maybe had a higher skill requirement? So you could have:

Mocham's Time and Space: 50 NCU, reqs PM745 SI 745, Nanocost 593

and

Mini-Mocham's TS: 40 NCU, reqs PM815 SI 815, Nanocost 723

Or something like that mebbe?

Even if it wasn't for the team, I very much like the idea of having some kind of low NCU footprint nanoskills buffs that are self-only. There's always a feeling for the MPs that we have to use up huge amounts of NCU in combat for our buffs to reach our nanos. Animas and now Evos both use vast quantities of NCU space due to the high requirements in 3 skills (BM/MC/TS). Add in overbuffing in PvP to land debuffs (PM/SI) and nukes (PM/MC) more reliably and we have to buff very high levels of PM/SI/MC/TS/BM... 5 nano skills.

Most other professions use our nanoskills buffs to buff themselves/the team/their pets and then kill them for combat and fill the space with other stuff. This gives us a disadvantage at times in that we can't fit the HP buffs, weapons skills buffs, crit buffs, AC buffs etc that other professions can squeeze in.

Having a smaller footprint range of nanoskills buffs that were self-only would allow us a little more NCU leeway to improve our defences and attack through accepting more external buffs. Would that be a good idea perhaps?

X

[talornin]

I would love to see Mochams with a smaller NCU cost. Then maybe I could pust back in a CPU upgrade or Recompiler. But they would have to be self only and have apprx the same duration as Mochams have today. What I really hated the few levels I used infuses was that they only lasted 30 mins. And trying to get a team to hold so you can drop one gazilion buffs on yourself? lmao!

[zophee]

No bad idea to have smaller footprint but one thing I feel negative is to get even a load more nanos, so I woud need another shortcut bar (I feel disorganized in the CTRL+8 window to a certain degree). I would prefer a kind of nano that could compact running mochams so they need less space or nanos that do the effect of common mocham combinations (eg. MC/TC) and take less ncu than individual mochams.

[Xtremtech]

I would prefer a kind of nano that could compact running mochams so they need less space

That's a nice idea. A nano that reduced the NCU cost of any MP buffs that were running... or even a nano that reduced the cost of any nano running in your NCU...

Keep the ideas coming guys.

X

[locomdenom]

I can't see any reason why MPs shouldn't have a self-only Mochams of same effect, duration, and nanocost, that takes ~60% of the NCU of the full Mocham's.

It should probably have slightly higher requirements (though I don't see that it would matter one way or another), and knowing FC it WILL be level-locked, probably around the 155 or 175 mark.

[Xtremtech]

and knowing FC it WILL be level-locked, probably around the 155 or 175 mark.

Yup just to stress this again. All new nanos since the agent patch (14.2 or so if memory serves) will include level restrictions irrespective of profession or purpose.

Let's keep the ideas flowing here. I like the NCU reduction nano idea - though I'm guessing it would have to be self-only or it would have to only affect MP buffs. Otherwise, we'd end up treading on the toes of the fixers.

X

[TMT]

That's a nice idea. A nano that reduced the NCU cost of any MP buffs that were running... or even a nano that reduced the cost of any nano running in your NCU...

I too would like a NCU Zip program. What about a self only MP version of the Fixer NCU buff nano?
Which gives less NCU than the Fixer version but not stackable with it. This would be easiest for FC to implement (ie add to database) I guess as a nano that actually decreases NCU need on MP only buffs would surely need new code.

How much NCU it should give I'm not sure. Is there any "rule" for which nanos MPs "must" have running all the time? I guess we are talking about a higher QL nano here for MPs that can do Mochams. Though Infuses are pretty heavy on NCU too.

At level 130 I'm filling up over 300 NCU with self buffs only. Though I guess I could cancel out the SI and PM infuses after buffing. But what I need to have running is Odins and BM, TS, MC Mochams, unless I want to spend a couple of minutes buffing each time I lose a pet.

[zophee]

I would vote for 25%-50% decrease on running MP buffs. The idea to adding ncu for easier implementation id good too.