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Thread: Nerf GA Nerf Fixer Nerf Manex

  1. #81
    Up until recently, Fixer was the single hardest prof in the game to play. These poor guys waited for =some= kind of luv for so long, that personaly I cannot bring myself to say anything bad about em.

    I do think that the fixer luv went a wee bit overboard, to the point that it seems like theres more fixers around then anything else, but thats the breaks. It =is= a fine example of just how well FC can fix a profession when they put thier minds to it.

    I would =never= advocate nerfing or dumbing-down a profession, if only for the sole reason that getting good stuff out of FC is like pullng teeth. And beware, if you cry nerf long and hard enough, it may well be you who gets whacked with the nerf bat. Id much rather see fixes then nerfs any day.

    And crying that X prof needs nerfing cuz you got owned once is not only counterproductive, its selfish and childish. If you arent ready and willing to get your arse handed to you, then dont put yourself in a situation when this can happen. You cant head into a tower fight and expect to come through it unscathed. Nor can you walk into the arena without accepting that your opponent might smash you like a bug.
    ++++++++++++++++++
    Swing
    199 Solitus Engeneer
    Omni-Tek, TestLive
    "It used to be that brave heroes would go out into the darkness and slay monsters. Now that we've banished the darkness, we've discovered we're all monsters."
    __________________
    ++++++++++++++++++

  2. #82

    Some of us have acquired nerf immunity

    Originally posted by Tekhead

    And beware, if you cry nerf long and hard enough, it may well be you who gets whacked with the nerf bat.


    I agree with all your points Tek, except this one. Some profs are pretty much immune from nerfing of any kind, I can't think of a single thing that FC could do to Crats for example, not so they'd notice anyway.

    I agree that calling nerf is indeed childish and immature, but the problem is that VERY often when an under-privileged prof asks for something for themselves, the blessed ones see that as a nerf too. After all, if pets became reliable and powerful weapons, the pet classes wouldn't get owned so much in PvP anymore, and so the peeps who rule the battlefield now would cry out that they have in fact been indirectly nerfed.

    Anti-smurf nuke is a very good example of this, NTs were given something good, only the Fixers (quite naturally) didn't quite see it that way. Sols were given the CH shutdown, bet the Docs weren't too happy about that either

    Check out the 'Grid evac for the great unwashed masses' thread, the Fixers were in fact calling that suggestion a nerf call, even though it would have NO impact on their gameplay in any way.
    Even so, I backed away from my pro-grid-for-all stance, because I agreed with Lilnymph that original solutions are much better.

    Which is what I believe FC thinks too, hence they didn't nerf GA at all, they just made it so that any high lvl NT can take a smurf out of play with a minimum of effort.
    Reverend Revelator Ramagano, Proud Something of Alpha Omega

    Alpha Omega: Fighting For Your Future, Today

    No, I'm not back.

    How embarrassing, after all these years it turns out I CAN'T spell **ncom with an F and a U, talk about egg on my face eh?

  3. #83
    ok, i didnt had the "time" to read all posts but here is my reply for what i read the moust:


    -Manex is the flavor of the month for every none melee prof.
    -GA is NEAR GODMODE in PvM.
    -GA in PvP is good to around 50% profs. and it stil depends on equipment. A smurf can kill a engi, MA, crat, kinda easy, but he can also get owned by enf, soldiers, docs, traders, *cough*nt crap *cough*, etc....

    Funcom as said TONS of times "GA is working as we want it to work".

    Stop the lamme "nerf the world" shouting. From my experience in AO, there is always a easy way around to beat a objective. Learn to play.

    Want something to nerf? look at the Enforcers! They have more AR then a Soldier and that is just evil.

    In the mean time i´ll be doing some math and calc. on the ablity of me (smurf) IPR smg+burst and equip a QB....... *grin*

    And has some1 said (cant remember name and 2lazy to go check):
    NERF OXYGEN! IT´S TOO MUTCH OVERRATED!
    Our problems start when we don't die young

    Ront - RK2 Enforcer wielding EoT

    Taus Fixer on RK2 - 12.7 Fixer (on perma - vacation)

  4. #84

    Re: Some of us have acquired nerf immunity

    Originally posted by Revelator

    "Check out the 'Grid evac for the great unwashed masses' thread, the Fixers were in fact calling that suggestion a nerf call, even though it would have NO impact on their gameplay in any way."

    Lol , yes Revelator we came into the streets by the thousans opposing this, just because a handfull of selfish individuals complained you start making silly genaralisatins, maybe if you read a bit closer you would have noticed this fixers post in support of others having a grid option.
    But maybe you just like to read between the lines.
    Alantria 203 Fixer Squad commander/Recruiter of Eternal Fury

  5. #85

    Re: Re: Some of us have acquired nerf immunity

    Originally posted by Alantria
    Originally posted by Revelator

    "Check out the 'Grid evac for the great unwashed masses' thread, the Fixers were in fact calling that suggestion a nerf call, even though it would have NO impact on their gameplay in any way."

    Lol , yes Revelator we came into the streets by the thousans opposing this, just because a handfull of selfish individuals complained you start making silly genaralisatins, maybe if you read a bit closer you would have noticed this fixers post in support of others having a grid option.
    But maybe you just like to read between the lines.
    Hmmmm... well, you sorta kinda got me on that, as there WAS indeed Fixers who supported it in the thread. 3 to be specific, Ilythia, Rubirango and yourself Alantria. However, by my count (which I do urge people to check, it was danged hard because not everyone proudly announce their profs in their sig) 12 other fixers did voice their opposition in no uncertain terms.

    I think that in the English language 12 people are more than a handful, but even if not (it's not my 1st language), the fixer nay-sayers was outgunning the yay-sayers 4:1. I'm also willing to bet that if someone brought this up in the Fixers forum, the nay ratio would be the same or higher.

    The ironic thing being of course I myself no longer support 'all-prof-gridding' because Lilnymph (a fixer) actually convinced me that it would be better to come up with something better and more original than the old-school grid. The issue for me is dead and gone.

    I was using that thread as an example of suggestions for things that do not remove playability for anyone, do not threaten you in either PvP or PvM, and one prof still would do best of ALL the profs, still gets called a 'nerf'.

    If you can't call nerfs (and I think you shouldn't), and if you can't suggest new things and fixes (which I think we should) without that being called a nerf, what are we left with?

    That was the point of my post, I see that it came across badly, for which I apologize. I hope I have clarified a little bit, and if not I will try harder next time.
    Reverend Revelator Ramagano, Proud Something of Alpha Omega

    Alpha Omega: Fighting For Your Future, Today

    No, I'm not back.

    How embarrassing, after all these years it turns out I CAN'T spell **ncom with an F and a U, talk about egg on my face eh?

  6. #86
    Originally posted by Dropcid


    Premium Mausser Particle Streamer
    7-342 (250)

    Exquisite Mausser Chemical Streamer
    1-400 (350)

    Manex Catastrophe December
    1-750 (100)

    Are these the base weapons you are basing your figures on? How did it become:


    I realize SMG skill raises the damage, but specifically, how did the manex become more crit reliant than the MCS? Am I missing something?

    -D
    First off, people have a tendancy to call weapons with high crits "crit reliant." This is not accurate. If the majority of damage is dealt via normal hits, the weapon simply has good crits in addition to good damage. "Crit reliance" is a ratio of normal damage vs. crit damage.

    How did it become:
    Mausser Chemical Streamer
    Estimated Damage Range: 4-1050 (2362)

    Manex Catastrophe December
    Estimated Damage Range: 4-2362 (2738)

    You ask?

    Simple... Calculated crit is NOT just the value inside the parentesis when you look at your weapon's stats... It is Max + Crit.

    1-1000(0) vs 1-1(500)

    The 1-1000(0) weapon will have bigger critical hits than the 1-1(500) weapon.

    (Of course, the 1-1(500) weapon is more crit-reliant...)

    The Manex gets crit values of 750 + 100 = 850, while the MCS gets 400 + 350 = 750.

    The argument of Hi/Low AC vs. Fast/Slow weapons is a varying one... It really depends on where in the range you end up. Basically, if your target's AC is high enough to take your low hits down to minimum very often then slow/hard is better. Otherwise, it really doesn't make much difference. It is really very situational.

    But, the MCS does not get its damage just from attacking fast.. It gets its large damage due to quick Burst refresh. And, as everyone knows, since specials are the lifeblood of PvP...the MCS is a better PvP weapon. Also, considering that Bursts are unable to be avoided, the MCS is probably more "reliable" on its damage than a Manex.

    Simply, the Manex is a tool for a job... It's good when the fights are short and spaced-out... It's good if you need to get a large chunk of damage in quickly (outdamaging camp spawns or for PvP titles, etc...) and don't care about damage over 30s. But, for any battle over around 24s, the MCS is probably going to come out ahead.

    It is the "favor of the month" and people like the high numbers it rolls...makes them feel like they're really putting in loads of damage. It's probably also better at getting and holding aggro given FC's "hate" logic tends to "favor" big hits.

    But, all weapons have cycles... People think they're uber at first, then they fade off into forgetfulness unless they really ARE. (EQB or PoP, for example... lol) Many of the role-playing weapons are forgotten, dispite their heavy damage output... Realistically, though... the Div 9 and MCS (two very underestimated weapons nowadays) are both in the top-5 ranged weapons for damage over time.

    -Jayde
    Last edited by Jayde; Jan 16th, 2003 at 23:46:31.

  7. #87
    And the Man speaks..thank you Jayde
    General Hershel "Kasimir" Jurik

    President of Division 9 R.S.G.E

    Fixer
    RK-1

    Braumiester of the Pagan Bartenders, wielder of dual SSo8s

    Stealer of hearts, creds, and anything not nailed down!

  8. #88
    And would it be too much to ask for a smg/mg that actually LOOKS and SOUNDS decent? I hate the boring thud thud thudthudthud sound of the manex. MCS is better sounding, but no projectile animation!

    C'mon I want something that sounds like those miniguns soldiers use, with bright red streams leaping from barrel to target.
    "What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul." -- to Billy Madison

  9. #89
    Originally posted by Losobal
    And would it be too much to ask for a smg/mg that actually LOOKS and SOUNDS decent? I hate the boring thud thud thudthudthud sound of the manex. MCS is better sounding, but no projectile animation!

    C'mon I want something that sounds like those miniguns soldiers use, with bright red streams leaping from barrel to target.
    Automatic Grinners and Sleekmaster's are pretty cool =). Nice guns at low levels too, dunno how they hold up later on, but IMO they beat out the manex till you get enough ranged init to overcome the Manex's very poor attack/recycle. Didn't play with the sleekmaster too much though since it required ranged energy and I didn't wanna train that as it may not be too useful later on down the road.

  10. #90
    Originally posted by Revelator
    How stupid of FC to nerf something that is really no good at all!
    How they must be slapping their heads, and thinking how stupid they were for nerfing the wrong weapon! But then again they will probably think that it doesn't matter anyway, seeing as it's really a crap weapon that the Fixers don't like anyhow.
    Usually I don't post before I've read the whole thread (did see you get pwned by Jayde tho ), but if this is sarcasm in your post, then I have 2 words for you: Freedom Arms.

    /G13
    pirates. with lasers.
    Are you having an argument on the internet, again?

    Gene13 - on a space odyssey since 2001
    XXX - N

    Some day your ship will come in, but you will be at the airport.

  11. #91
    Originally posted by Gene13

    Usually I don't post before I've read the whole thread (did see you get pwned by Jayde tho ), but if this is sarcasm in your post, then I have 2 words for you: Freedom Arms.

    /G13
    Hehe! Yeah, had to retract and retreat in a hurry there...

    Freedom Arms was unfortunately before my time, n00b that I am, but I seem to dimly remember (from other discussions) that it was, justifiably, considered to be so ridiculously owerpowered that even the people using it were embarrassed about it.

    That being said, I dueled a GAIII Manex fixer yesterday, and his opening burst DID take out half my HP, and I feel quite proud that I managed to land 2 non-special hits on him, one of them a 1k crit even, before he hammered me to the ground with ease.

    The fact that he could have done that better with an MCS is relatively irrelevant to me, as all that means is that Fixers have 2 really good weapons readily at hand, and all I have that can measure up in the Pistol department is the PoP. Of course, I don't actually HAVE the PoP, but I know it's in game, and maybe, if I'm lucky, very lucky indeed, I might one sweet day own it.

    Gonna be a while though...
    Reverend Revelator Ramagano, Proud Something of Alpha Omega

    Alpha Omega: Fighting For Your Future, Today

    No, I'm not back.

    How embarrassing, after all these years it turns out I CAN'T spell **ncom with an F and a U, talk about egg on my face eh?

  12. #92
    Originally posted by Revelator
    Freedom Arms was unfortunately before my time, n00b that I am, but I seem to dimly remember (from other discussions) that it was, justifiably, considered to be so ridiculously owerpowered that even the people using it were embarrassed about it.
    It wasn't/isn't really overpowered. Some lowbies got their asses crit to hell and back and started shouting Nerf!
    FC listened.

    And imo it's one of the reasons dualwielding got ****ed (<--That's you, Pistol wielding Adventurer).

    Noone got happier (OK, maybe the collectors ), just lots of people unhappy.

    /G13
    pirates. with lasers.
    Are you having an argument on the internet, again?

    Gene13 - on a space odyssey since 2001
    XXX - N

    Some day your ship will come in, but you will be at the airport.

  13. #93
    Originally posted by Gene13
    It wasn't/isn't really overpowered. Some lowbies got their asses crit to hell and back and started shouting Nerf!
    FC listened.

    And imo it's one of the reasons dualwielding got ****ed (<--That's you, Pistol wielding Adventurer).

    Noone got happier (OK, maybe the collectors ), just lots of people unhappy.

    /G13
    Ah, I see have got my facts ALL wrong in this case! Further retraction and retreating is in order then.

    An interesting historical lesson btw, and kinda heartwarming too, to learn that once upon a time in Rubi-Ka pistoleros were actually powerful enough to be (or at least perceived to be) nerfed.

    Hmmm... hope I get my hands on that PoP before it gets slammed.
    Reverend Revelator Ramagano, Proud Something of Alpha Omega

    Alpha Omega: Fighting For Your Future, Today

    No, I'm not back.

    How embarrassing, after all these years it turns out I CAN'T spell **ncom with an F and a U, talk about egg on my face eh?

  14. #94
    Originally posted by Taeru


    Automatic Grinners and Sleekmaster's are pretty cool =). Nice guns at low levels too, dunno how they hold up later on, but IMO they beat out the manex till you get enough ranged init to overcome the Manex's very poor attack/recycle. Didn't play with the sleekmaster too much though since it required ranged energy and I didn't wanna train that as it may not be too useful later on down the road.
    I liked the grinner more than anything else i have used, but in my opinion, it's completely useless at higher levels. After seeing my Manex top 6k on a burst, I'm having a hard time considering using anything else. It looks like for straight up fighting, MCS might be better, but I like to snare-n-shoot a bit too, which the manex is perfect for.

    -d
    ===============
    First Order S.S.S.C.
    ===============

  15. #95
    Freedom Arms were all uber when everyone was running around with 15% ELLTS and UVC... After the crit nerfs, they kinda lost their teeth.

    I managed to nab a QL 198 when the Pumpikins were dropping them, and it just isn't really worth using nowadays.

    -Jayde

  16. #96

    Arrow

    Simply, the Manex is a tool for a job... It's good when the fights are short and spaced-out... It's good if you need to get a large chunk of damage in quickly (outdamaging camp spawns or for PvP titles, etc...) and don't care about damage over 30s. But, for any battle over around 24s, the MCS is probably going to come out ahead.
    One interesting thing to note:

    Manex beats the living daylights out of MCS on the uber acecamp mobs for example (a 30 minute affair at least) even when you factor in all the misses on regular attacks and the guarenteed hits of bursts.

    A minute or two with each weapon on Ris Lee and its pretty amusing
    mercatura -ae f. [trade, traffic; merchandise]

    Moved off-world and found real tradeskills...along with many other things

  17. #97
    MAs used to be PvP gods, and to a degree they still are effective. but nowhere neer their previous godlike status, this endless trolling is tireing and stressfull and frankly not worth your time.

    your proff wasnt nerfed MA ,
    Other proffs were givven love to counter act your current situaiton

    happens.. will happen again. aslong as you play
    focus more on friends and the things that make you happy insted of the things that upset you about the game , that works for me.
    high spirits wont compensate for 800 rounds a minute...
    LucidTrance . imps . Gear

  18. #98

    Just an observation

    As a div9 soldier the manex has, to a great extent, caused me more irritation than almost anything else. A fixer using this weapon will take aggro faster than a full-nuking NT and hold it for a ridiculously long time. In PvP it tickles nicely and leaves unsightly blemishes, least til a minuite into the fight when TMS drops and I get severely pounded.

    Despite all this the manex is not overpowered. It's outdamaged by some of the most common weapons out there (divs and X-3's at least) and the burst recharge on it is so horrific that it can hardly be called reliable. All the gun really does is turn the user into a tank due to the curret aggro system, even if it's doing less overall damage.

    A couple of sidenotes:

    Jayde, using the supernova as a comparison to the manex isn't necessarily the best call, as it shows how close the manex is in single shot damage with a much higher rate of fire:"P

    Taus....ROFLMAO! A ton of classes have potentially higher Attack Ratings than soldiers. Not only enf, but trader, agent(even without drains), adventurer, engineer(slayer x-fer!) just to name those I'm 100% certain of.
    Making RK2 less safe for everyone...

    Ours go to eleven!

  19. #99

    Smile Nerf of Fixers

    heya all...i play a mp, mps were über just the time before i left ao for about 9 months ...i still kept reading forums tho...why you want the good things to get nerfed? thats really bad ...since fc is such an unbalanced game let those who are twinked stay twinked...same goes for fixers...i started a fixer atrox last week about lvl 80 now after a lil gaming...true.. fixers are uber...true ga makes it harder for mobs/players to hit them...but dont nerf them..GA 1 costs about 70-90 M GA 2 90-120 GA 3 about 150M and GA 4 150M+++...its impossible to have that much money if you have 1 char that is 150+ even if u started a fixer and u need to fix him money for ga...if u have a nerfed char noone wants u in team....that way u cant make money...like engies...they are nerfed to the bones...now mps also...yes mps...FCs former love pet...now fixers are great...but you dont hear any of us mp lovers complaining just remake ur char abit fix like...my mp had hammer on...coz at the time hammers were great...2-3k crits mostly all the time...and now crits are at 2k seldomly 3k..
    what im trying to point out in all my BS...is ...Each patch fc nerfs a prof and makes another one better...docs had their time at 11.5 then engis at 12.x 13.x mps and 14.x fixers...so like every month they nerf and twink ...wont be long until they nerf fixers either just let the nature do its work....and its also hard for fc to decide which to nerf ...since every prof are jealous of other profs ...like mps...why dont mps have grid or warp? traders, docs, nts, fixers have it now....what should come next? Enfs with mochams? this is just my oppinion ...dont get to edgy over the whole Nerf this and nerf that ...my mp has manex now suited for a fixer ....just suit your char the same and you will find this game more fun than ever...though one thing ...MAKE BS LESS LAGGY
    Live long and prospor!

  20. #100
    To people on both sides, let me give you the skinny on the Manex, a good example of how it works.

    Last night me and some guildies got in a group. we had:

    -Me: 113 Fixer at the time (116 now!!), maxed SMG/Burst, wielding a QL 168 Manex Cat October. I have around 650 RI, so you know. That was augmented by some crat coffee, but the others were caffed up as well.
    -MA: 14-something or another, maxed skills and the best attack he can buy.
    -Soldier: 138(ish), wielding a QL200 Div9
    -Advent: 114, wearing a QL 158 x-3 (don't ask)
    -Crat: 156, not really doing damage
    -Doc: 115, just there for heals

    We did a semi-small QL 176 team mission, lasted about 1.5 hours.

    Doc was running a damage dump progeam, and the results at the end:

    Me: 380k
    MA: 470k
    Sold: 410k
    Advent: 80k
    Crat: negligible
    Doc: negligible

    No, I came darn close to tieing folks well above me in weapon QL and skill, so that says something about the power of the Manex. Is it a damn good weapon? Yes. Does it beat every other weapon in the game? ROFL. Is it always the best weapon in any circumstance? No. Fr one thing, don't use it in PvM unless you A) tone your aggdeff down to 25%, or B) have a hella good doc. I was buffed to 3.5k hp, and I NEEDED it. I was Mr. Popular.

    So no, no one is saying it's a sucky weapon. I'd be a fool to say it isn't.. However, it's not so incredibly uber it needs nerfed. On the other hand, someone oughta look at the other three profs I was grouped with, and see about fixing them so they can do a little better.
    General Hershel "Kasimir" Jurik

    President of Division 9 R.S.G.E

    Fixer
    RK-1

    Braumiester of the Pagan Bartenders, wielder of dual SSo8s

    Stealer of hearts, creds, and anything not nailed down!

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