Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 43

Thread: Nerfing of the QB

  1. #21
    Originally posted by THEDEACON!
    Bah, it's not very overpowering, nowhere near what I expected. A good init debuff works wonders.

    MAs can do bbcs or shen and debuff inits like 500 or 550. Um, true MAs still suck ass in pvp, but imagine this:

    (ignoring the obvious doctor debuff references)

    An MP with crap health, say around 4k and no weapon other than fists has a damned good chance of beating an eqb enforcer. The max damage you can do to him would be 1600. a first aid stim and a single pet heal will have him back at full health.

    Then he does bbcs or shen....-550 or 500 to melee init respectively.

    Then he does Wrath Abatement for another -261 init and -37 to damage (yeah that damage debuff part does suck, but every little bit helps). the key is to survive the first ten seconds when an enforcer has rage and flurry running. And that's actually mostly luck

    But that's a healthy init debuff, especially considering the need to go full aggro to hit at all with the queen blade, opening up for debuffs. With a gigantic glaring weakness such as that, I'd hardly call that overpowering at all. The same goes with Manex. I don't care how much damage it does in theory or pvm, you're not going past that 40% cap in pvp. I see GA fixers wielding a manex in pvp and shake my head. It's great in certain situations, but the old adage "the best offense is a good defense" holds true in spades.

    It actually behooves a physically weak profession such as MP to rip out the shining life and go with a shining nanopool, because with an enforcer fighting on full aggro, every nuke is going to land, every regular shot is going to land, pet hits are going to land, nanoskills and init debuffs are going to land as soon as rage runs out.

    Bottom line is, queen blade is not overpowering. You gain alot offensively but you lose so much defensive skills that it really negates any claims of being overpowered. I think it's fine the way it is.

    OMG! You always play so silly, I dont think I ever realized how damn smart you are with game mechanics...

    I always thought quite highly of you D, but I have a new found respect!

    great post, explains well enough...

    The people complaining about enforcers pwning expect to hit q and specials alone to be competitive...

    enforcers have rage, mongo, challenger, layers, FoB, specials, stims, and enf tank going on all the time to be competitive (ok you all can add your items too now)

    Deacon roxor in his boxor (oh, and stay away from my big smelly atrox feet)
    I am Dnastyone Official Broom pusher for The Professionals
    Painmage my newest funnest guy
    PHEAR ME RK1 Yazule IMMMM BACK

    I would have to say that this is an typicall example of how an flame should not look like. You need to think things through and calm down before you try to write an flame... Im sorry but I would rate this flame with an 1. Aggression is to high, grammar and cursing isnt to well planned... Maybe he has an point somewhere in there but I dont even want to find it. - Centurion3

    ROFLOL

  2. #22
    I know I have no right to say anything about the EQB/QB of PvP, as I niether posses one nore do I PvP, but I will state my humble opinion on this subject, becuase I dont feel Im wrong . .

    First of all as far as I can see it would seem that something DOES have to be done about the EQB. I have seen more then one enforcer on the boards themselves saying it is abit overpowered. So the weapon does need to be "FIXED". Fine. What I DONT think is right however is putting a hard cap on the weapons speed. Not at all.

    Melee Init is a GREEN SKILL for Enforcers. We specialize and train this skill every level BECUASE of the benifits of the skill. What you will do FC, if you put a hard cap on the speed of the EQB, is basically penalize those who have invested thier time and IP in a skill that was MENT to bring down the speed of the weapon in the first place!

    Unsatisfactory. Should you choose to put a hard cap on the EQB then I would feel it not only FAIR, but BALANCING as well for you to take the top end, best damage dealing weapon of ALL classes and put a hard cap on the speed thier weapons can get to. Unfair you say to do this? Then why would it be fair to do it to an Enforcer weapon?

    Raising the attack/recharge of the weapon would seem like the only logical solution, yet IMHO, your still doing the same thing anyway. You are penalizing those that spent time, effort, and IP into raising Init to get that weapon as fast as it can swing.

    I dont see any possible solution that would actually seem FAIR. Like I said, it does seem that something needs to be done, but I think the best course of action would have been . . . . .

    If Funcom never made the weapon the way it is in the first place.

    Thats about all I have to say on the subject. Like I said, I dont have much right to say anything based on actual use and or PvP with the EQB, but I am intitled to my opinion.

    Merry Part and Blessed Be,
    ~P~
    Quik
    Quiksilva - Omni Enforcer ( hey its a job )

    Misterbungle - Rerolled 2HE Omni Enforcer . . . . . " It's not funny my @ss is on fire! "

    Why are both of my ONLY two characters Enforcers? Simple, it doesnt matter what weapon/armor/style you go for, Enforcers are a very simple and much needed class in game. You simple hit things. ALOT >

    " We have no great war, no great desprssion. Our great war is a spiritual war, our depression, is our lives. " ~ Tyler Durden, Fight Club

  3. #23
    Originally posted by Yazule



    OMG! You always play so silly, I dont think I ever realized how damn smart you are with game mechanics...

    I always thought quite highly of you D, but I have a new found respect!

    great post, explains well enough...

    The people complaining about enforcers pwning expect to hit q and specials alone to be competitive...

    enforcers have rage, mongo, challenger, layers, FoB, specials, stims, and enf tank going on all the time to be competitive (ok you all can add your items too now)

    Deacon roxor in his boxor (oh, and stay away from my big smelly atrox feet)

    Wow thanks man!

    I like to suprise folks with a quick serious post every now and then and I've been browsing the enforcer forums more and more since I rolled my litle solitus enforcer.

    A couple of questions I had about flurry of blows. Because it adds to AMS, would I be correct in saying that it lowers defensive even more? Isn't it sort of like turning your aggro bar past full agg? Does this negate the nano resist of rage?

    See, I'm so extremely intrigues by all this because I had my first attempted gank by a queen blade enforcer last night in broken shores while checking on the dude that drops the ncu pants. I was blitzing missions and playing around with a few different implant schemes, in an attempt to get my nanopool as close to 10,000 as possible (I didn't even come close btw hehehe).

    I see this blue dot coming towards me, most likely to also check out the spawn, so I start running just to get out of his way, hoping to reach 75% without having to get into my plane.

    Two seconds later, I get the "you are being attacked by...." message. Since I was hoping for the poet guy to pop, I already had the attack and mezz pet (mezz pet does inturrupt pvp attacks) on guard mode and so they started flying right over before I could even see my attacker. I buff the pet with the attack rating and damage buff and move up the hill a little bit (my guild's towers were extremely close, so I was going to make a mad dash for 100% zone if I was in trouble hehe)

    This dude (I reeeeeaaaally wish I had his name) comes right at me like a bullet. I had no freaking clue enforcers could move THAT fast. Before I could do anything, he hit me....for 1612 damage.

    Belamorte is a funny beast. They nerfed the heals from the pet in such a way that it no longer heals for maximum damage, but anywhere from 400 to 836 or so. it healed me for something like around 800 and a ql150 first aid stim healed me for right around 700ish.

    First thing I did was stun him, which has almost never worked on a ragin enforcer, so imagine my surprise when it stuck. I start hightailing it out of there when I saw what weapon he had, hoping to outlast the crucial period when flurry and rage is running.

    He catches up to me within 4 seconds (hey, im a metagimp. we dont move too quick hehe)...and then the mezz pet stops his attack

    So I hit him with my crummy -267 init debuff, nuke him for -100 nanoskills and about 400ish damage. By this time I'm at full health again of course. He brawls for 500(ish?) and does a regular hit for 1612 again. Pet heals 600 immediately. So before anything else can happen I hit him with dominate biomet, mat met and mat cre and another nuke. I get hit again (these hits are really coming at me slow, I was totally surprised).

    So I rebuff my lame attack pet (our 'uber' pet buff lasts all of 22 seconds') and he busts out with a brawl and a hit, bringing me lower than half hp. then the mezz pet 'calms' him or whatever it does, giving me enough time to use a first aid stim and stun him. From what I'm told, when the mezz pet does it's thing, it stops your attack in such a way that you have to press 'Q' again to re-initiate attack.

    He's fumbling for a lower challenger or rage and I'm playfully nuking and bursting him and stunning when things get rough. Needless to say I was suprised as hell and doubt I could repeat it, but I won by a good healthy margin. Why? Because the queen blade hits SLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW and because my 40% hp was so low. So basically I was taking low amounts of damage with so much space in between each attack that I was given enough time to heal a good chunk of it. So for me, the key was not having the most hp, but rather having the least. Heh, I would have loved to have duel fixer HOTs on me though...

    Again, I fail to see where the qeen blade is overpowered. It's EXTREMELY powerful, but as long as a weakness is there (small half lucked based weakness at time), I can't call it overpowering. Same goes with GA fixers. If I can debuff them out of their GA all so easily (even easier when they are holding a manex at full aggro) I can't call it overpowered.

    Rage and flurry just doesn't last long enough. Cap out the speed at 2/2 and the thing loses alot of appeal for folks that worked their asses off to get high melee init, even if only for a few seconds. Anything that forces you to lose nearly all of your defensive skills to make it worthwhile cannot be that overpowered. The only and I do mean the only change that I would ever consider to be worthwhile, MIGHT be to lower the minimum damage on the thing. But since the damage inflicted on me is limited to that 40% cap, I shrug my shoulders and remain indifferent. Some opponents, such as me, are better dealth with by quick smaller blows, which was why I always used to get torn to shreds by an MA, whereas some opponents, the ones with loads of hp need big slow strikes to take them out. It would have been alot nicer for enforcers to have both options.

    If I put on duel fixer HOTs and stick the heal pet on me and then go into a series of debuffs to init and nanoskills I might actually win a good fair portion of the time. Last night was half a fluke, half luck and the other half was that he was not expecting an MP to put up any kind of fight.

    If this had been mass pvp, I would have died hella quick, as there's too much action going on to keep a clear presence of mind. But in mass pvp, an enforcer can rage, flurry, but then what? Who rules mass pvp? NTs do. Good for them too, I like NTs!

    So where is the queen blade overpowered? Missions? Well here's the thing. PVM in this game is little more than an inconvenience until you reach level 200. You might as well hand out level 200 titles to everyone by the end of the first month. I don't really care if a mission MOB dies in one second.

    So I ask again, where's the QB overpowered? Duels? Sure, half the classes out there get owned in seconds with a queen blade, but also half the classes out there have some form of extreme init debuff in the form of an MA attack, doc debuff, calms (which now debuff), smaller MP init debuff....

    Do init debuffs stack? there's a good question. If folks actually used a bit more strategy instead of running wild, a combo of a crat, doc, maybe even an MA and MP could take out a whole pack of QB enforcers with init debuffs. I'd have to check which nano strains the different init debuffs used though, to see which ones stacked....

    I'm also finding that rage doesn't break everything instantly 100% of the time like I always thought it did. I suppose maybe in theory if an engi got mochams and used his highest pets buffs with the area snare, it *might* catch hold of the enforcer and the enforcer would enver reach the engi. Engi pets have a badass attack rating while fully buffed...

    And besides, aren't melee weapons supposed to hit *alot* harder than ranged to make up for the fact that you have to sit on top of your opponent to get any damage in?

    I didn't understand the Queen Blade before and hopped on the 'nerf it' bandwagon myself at first, but I see now why Funcom made it the way it is. Nerfing it will be a shame, but it looks like it's set in stone.

    It's a pity that folks complain about something before they even understand what it is that they're complaining about. All they do is screw themselves over. Same again goes with grid armor. "It's overpowered" I hear people say over and over again. To me, the nano dependency of GA is a glaring weakness. I can turn ga off so my enforcer buddy can wack the tar out of them while my nukes cut right through.

    These days a good lvl200 engi scares the living crap out of me as much as a qb enforcer does. I can't burst him, I can't get away from his uber critting double hitting pet and I can't stun his pet either.

    Hehehe there, I rambled long enough But yah, y'all have at least one player out there that kinda sorta understands where you are coming from
    Nanomage: The OTHER other white meat

  4. #24
    Oh btw, that dude was hitting me with the regular queen blade (he was yellow to me at lvl 177, so it's impossible that he had the enhanced version). I have zero experience with the eqb, so I can't say one way or another on that. Figured I'd clarify that :P
    Nanomage: The OTHER other white meat

  5. #25
    FOB buffs crit for a few seconds, very short.

    it also moves your agg setting higher. if you are already at full, then FOB takes you beyond where you could normally go. the downside is that the penalties to evades also go where they normally wouldn't. this is the balance.

  6. #26
    people whining from what they perceive is one of THE biggest problems around. the grass is greener on the other side and all that.

  7. #27
    Originally posted by THEDEACON!
    Bah, it's not very overpowering, nowhere near what I expected. A good init debuff works wonders.

    MAs can do bbcs or shen and debuff inits like 500 or 550. Um, true MAs still suck ass in pvp, but imagine this:

    (ignoring the obvious doctor debuff references)

    An MP with crap health, say around 4k and no weapon other than fists has a damned good chance of beating an eqb enforcer. The max damage you can do to him would be 1600. a first aid stim and a single pet heal will have him back at full health.

    Then he does bbcs or shen....-550 or 500 to melee init respectively.

    Then he does Wrath Abatement for another -261 init and -37 to damage (yeah that damage debuff part does suck, but every little bit helps). the key is to survive the first ten seconds when an enforcer has rage and flurry running. And that's actually mostly luck

    But that's a healthy init debuff, especially considering the need to go full aggro to hit at all with the queen blade, opening up for debuffs. With a gigantic glaring weakness such as that, I'd hardly call that overpowering at all. The same goes with Manex. I don't care how much damage it does in theory or pvm, you're not going past that 40% cap in pvp. I see GA fixers wielding a manex in pvp and shake my head. It's great in certain situations, but the old adage "the best offense is a good defense" holds true in spades.

    It actually behooves a physically weak profession such as MP to rip out the shining life and go with a shining nanopool, because with an enforcer fighting on full aggro, every nuke is going to land, every regular shot is going to land, pet hits are going to land, nanoskills and init debuffs are going to land as soon as rage runs out.

    Bottom line is, queen blade is not overpowering. You gain alot offensively but you lose so much defensive skills that it really negates any claims of being overpowered. I think it's fine the way it is.
    this is an example of a reasonable well thought out post!
    and he is very correct
    the QB is an all out offense wep, i could fare better with my faster weps against many profs
    since i can either sit at lower deff settings to avoid damage and debuffs etc.
    or if i DO get my inits debuffed i can go full agg and hit rage/FoB and still be hitting at max speed
    the disadvantages are still present
    the fact that enfs are brutal killing machines in a straight up slug-fest rather implies that you should avoid getting into one with an enf...that is a very simple concept
    attacking an enf head on is like running headfirst at a brickwall.
    so don't do it and then whine when u get a bump on ur noggin
    The bird of paradise alights only upon the hand that does not grasp

    The original Goddess of Stabbitty Death

  8. #28
    yeah Dea,

    FoB is "kinda" like going past full agg, you will get crit on more... not SURE about the resist thing, but I "think" it lowers resist too, but not as much as rage increases it. Either you got lucky or he didnt have nanoresist maxed.

    as for the speed thing, with a fixer buff and rage running an enforcer is about the fastest player in the game if he has run speed maxed and implanted (this is important vs ranged people).

    You need to go to the pvp boards and tell that story Deacon! We need some "non enforcer" support of NOT being nerfed!

    oh, another reason you can land your debuffs/nukes on him is he is probably trying to run full aggro to be "fast"... people dont realize sometimes how POWERFULL full D is in pvp .
    I am Dnastyone Official Broom pusher for The Professionals
    Painmage my newest funnest guy
    PHEAR ME RK1 Yazule IMMMM BACK

    I would have to say that this is an typicall example of how an flame should not look like. You need to think things through and calm down before you try to write an flame... Im sorry but I would rate this flame with an 1. Aggression is to high, grammar and cursing isnt to well planned... Maybe he has an point somewhere in there but I dont even want to find it. - Centurion3

    ROFLOL

  9. #29
    Well I just got my QB last night and equiped. Went with a kill team to "The One" and have to say that I am not as impressed as I thought I would be. Running on full def, the QB is almost painfully slow. At 161 I have over 900 in Melee Init without Rage and FoB and near 1700+ with.

    This is a full agg weapon....as said above an offensive weapon. And people that fight Enforcers that know their ***** can easily defeat one.

    I have talked with a few QB users, and most run full agg. Even with our HP we can be sitting ducks for debuffs and roots when full agg....not to mention running FoB.

    That is one of the things I loved about the Longmoon......I could sit on full def with Rage and swing full speed. I could get 3 or 4 hits between a QB swing on full def.

    FC needs to make a statement to the whiners out there that want the QB nerfed because they feel a QB Enforcer is overpowered, meaning they want to be able to defeat one over 75% of the time. FC needs to state, that yes the QB is a powerfull weapon and a Raging/FoB QB Enforcers can be dangerous....but can be defeated with some tactics.

    It all comes down to all classes wanting to be able to defeat all other classes 75% of the time. It's not logical.
    Hemicrusher

    My Current Armor Setup Nail Armor Baby!

    Stupidity Should Be Painful

    LVL 200 Clan Enforcer - General of Lost Chapter

  10. #30
    That's what it's always been about .. whiners! If so many peopl whine .. then FC will nerf. They lose more people over nerfs then the will ever cause of whiners threatening to leave.

    Does anyone remember the first pvp kings?? They were agents .. why? Cause they could do one shot kills .. but the Whiners whines sooo much .. that was forever changed ....

    keeping whining you skilless fuktards .. you'll just make so noone can kill anything unless using a spoon!

  11. #31
    actually solja was #1 at live, then after the MK nerf and removal of Uber weapons it was agent

    just clear that up

    MK was god at live


    OMG 2hb SPOON! *thinks of Gummi*
    I am Dnastyone Official Broom pusher for The Professionals
    Painmage my newest funnest guy
    PHEAR ME RK1 Yazule IMMMM BACK

    I would have to say that this is an typicall example of how an flame should not look like. You need to think things through and calm down before you try to write an flame... Im sorry but I would rate this flame with an 1. Aggression is to high, grammar and cursing isnt to well planned... Maybe he has an point somewhere in there but I dont even want to find it. - Centurion3

    ROFLOL

  12. #32
    Originally posted by Thyrra
    people whining from what they perceive is one of THE biggest problems around. the grass is greener on the other side and all that.

    Hear! Hear! I completely agree with this. Nerf Jealousy! And nanomages. Wierd noseless beings, they are, with eyes that glow as though they were cars! Nerf them too.





    (Disclaimer: Totally kidding about Nanomages. Some really do have noses.)
    BigGreen
    Advisor of Rising Phoenix
    www.risingphoenix.org

    current setup

  13. #33
    I have a nose. A kissable one too.
    Nanomage: The OTHER other white meat

  14. #34
    haha you are actually right about the Soldier thing .. the only real reason they were nerfed at that point was because people figured out earlyt that they could kill insane mobs very early my using mk .. people exploited that and some people were over 100 while most others were at like 30ish



    The good ol days of outdoor hunting!

  15. #35
    Originally posted by THEDEACON!
    I have a nose. A kissable one too.
    *kisses the nose just once*
    now stop talking bout noses

    ppl who do massive nerf calls need to consider the big picture
    and when patches are being made they (unfortunately) need to take whiners into account and consider whether or not any 1 item might draw undue attention
    The bird of paradise alights only upon the hand that does not grasp

    The original Goddess of Stabbitty Death

  16. #36
    Originally posted by Nieth

    *kisses the nose just once*
    now stop talking bout noses
    What size shoe do you wear baby? I think I love you, so what am I so afraid of? I'm afraid that I'm not sure of, a love that is so pure....
    Nanomage: The OTHER other white meat

  17. #37
    Originally posted by THEDEACON!
    Bah, it's not very overpowering, nowhere near what I expected. A good init debuff works wonders.

    MAs can do bbcs or shen and debuff inits like 500 or 550. Um, true MAs still suck ass in pvp, but imagine this:

    (ignoring the obvious doctor debuff references)

    An MP with crap health, say around 4k and no weapon other than fists has a damned good chance of beating an eqb enforcer. The max damage you can do to him would be 1600. a first aid stim and a single pet heal will have him back at full health.

    Then he does bbcs or shen....-550 or 500 to melee init respectively.

    Then he does Wrath Abatement for another -261 init and -37 to damage (yeah that damage debuff part does suck, but every little bit helps). the key is to survive the first ten seconds when an enforcer has rage and flurry running. And that's actually mostly luck

    But that's a healthy init debuff, especially considering the need to go full aggro to hit at all with the queen blade, opening up for debuffs. With a gigantic glaring weakness such as that, I'd hardly call that overpowering at all. The same goes with Manex. I don't care how much damage it does in theory or pvm, you're not going past that 40% cap in pvp. I see GA fixers wielding a manex in pvp and shake my head. It's great in certain situations, but the old adage "the best offense is a good defense" holds true in spades.

    It actually behooves a physically weak profession such as MP to rip out the shining life and go with a shining nanopool, because with an enforcer fighting on full aggro, every nuke is going to land, every regular shot is going to land, pet hits are going to land, nanoskills and init debuffs are going to land as soon as rage runs out.

    Bottom line is, queen blade is not overpowering. You gain alot offensively but you lose so much defensive skills that it really negates any claims of being overpowered. I think it's fine the way it is.

    MY GOD DEAC.......would you go talk to that whiney little Megabio and explain this to him so he can understand? Too bad the damage is already done.......but I want him(and the other nerf-callers) to fully understand these mechanics, because they obviously don't think there's any downside to the EQB. As far as buffs go(except for skill color variations), the bottom line: Enforcers can have 350 more init(with the top Rage) than anyone else, period. With Challenger, we can have +252AR more than Adventurers. ANYONE using a QB/EQB has the opportunity to also use FoB. Rage is the only Enforcer-only init buff. So if 2K inits are possible for Enforcers(with Flurry), then 1650(or close, with Flurry) is possible for everyone else, if you make the same implant sacrifices. And with the post-1200 init changes, that +350 init is only worth 1/3.....effectively only 117 more init. Again....higher than 1200 init is possible for virtually anyone using EQB with FoB. Plant for Fast Attack to use a better FoB, ya knuckleheads. With 1200 inits(what I personally would have by removing my scope and chain-Raging), and at FULL AGGRO, the current speed drops to 1.75/2.95. That's just a hair faster than 5 seconds per swing, folks(4.7 seconds).

    AR is where Enforcers will shine with these weapons. I haven't switched over to 2hE yet, but my 1hE skill is 1070, fully buffed with Behemoth/all Boosts/1hE Expertise and our new +89 buff(the highest likely to be used). Also including the +14 from my new Smelly Butcher Gloves My 2hE skill will be slightly lower due to it being more dependant on Str(and I'll lose a Bright Str planting for 2hE). I should still have enough skill to self-equip it, though. NOW, even assuming my skill is unaffected when I switch to 2hE, my AR with Challenger will be 1322(1070 +252)......a far cry from the 1500AR that seems to be a popular figure with the people upset over this.

    EQB damage numbers from my own personal stats

    Those are good, healthy damage numbers.....but far from overpowering. And no, that's not including Flurry......as Flurry isn't *sustained* damage. And remember, that's at FULL AGGRO so roots/snares/nukes/plunders/debuffs/whatever are much more likely to land. Bah, I'm done arguing......go sic 'em Deac!!
    Nealandbob Headbasher Burninsword-RK1
    Deathfyst Tonofbricks -RK2
    Tonofbricks Nealandbob -RK Test embracing my inner Brat
    Finally back from Iraq
    Enforcers ONLY vote here!
    WoW-Pahani, Skywall/Horde and Barthilas/Horde
    "A good Enforcer dies a lot"-Deng
    "FC didn't create Enforcers, Deng did" -Tza

  18. #38
    why is everyone whining before the nerf is here? maybe it whont be that bad afterall, we cant get it enywhere near 1/1 anyways so relax alittle, and see what happens...

    [220/22/01] Desperad0 - Enforcer
    [220/20/59] Minidesp - Agent

  19. #39
    Originally posted by Thyrra
    i think they are trying to get the big slow weapons back in line with what they expected them to be rather than nerf them.

    if these weapons drop in the new high level dungeon then there is hope. link to trader whine about uber melee weapons
    W00t!!

    Does this make me an official whiner now?

    Do i get a cookie?
    --Rookie Teh "Wobble" Sux----------------------- AKA-----------------------Pirate "Ninjapirate" Dog--
    -+Legion+-
    WTB ATI T&L fix, h8 D3D.

  20. #40
    Originally posted by Desperad0
    why is everyone whining before the nerf is here? maybe it whont be that bad afterall, we cant get it enywhere near 1/1 anyways so relax alittle, and see what happens...
    maybe it is selective memory, but i can't recall a nerf FC handled well. can anybody?

    ---

    you get a cookie and some hugglez wobble.

    your research is helpful to the enf community.

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •