Are healing pets changing the tide of PvP? Or did i dream that dieing enforcer?

[Mysticalgimp]

I will not flame the MPs I would like to say that MP healing pets are very good healers. In PvP.

Funcom has capped PvP damage to 40%. So your doing 40% of the damage you did before 13.0

MP pets can heal for more than 40% health before you can hit for 40% of someones health. The minute 1 damage point is hit on the target the MP pet starts bobbing up and down like a fishing hook and spits out heals left and right.

I would understand the balance if PvP damage wasn't capped.. if you dont do more damage than the pet can heal for then your going to die. Thats understandable. But now that PvP damage is capped its actually impossible to do more damage than the MP pet can heal for.

Ive seen MPs with Rookie titles taking out Enforcers. Ive seen an MP take on a group of 6 people with the heal pet. Its like an unstopable force of madness.

Ok.. lets say the pet heals about 48% of the MPs HP (thier HP is relatively low due to dark blue body development).. thats 8% more than what is possible in PvP damage. I am not saying that you will be lucky enough to actually hit an MP for 40% damage.. the 40% Damage is an exageration applying as to if a lvl 165 Soldier were to burst a lvl 75 Crat.. it wouldn't be insta kill.. it would be 40% of health per shot because thats the maximum.

Now if you were equal level im saying you could probably score... hmm.. counting and calculating the MPs AC... 18% damage on them. So now your doing 18% damage with the occasional crit of 35%.. while the MP pet is constantly healing for 48%. Do you see were im going with this?

Ive only seen an MP die twice after 13.0.. and in both cases it was either a gank or the heal pet was killed off (Which is also very hard to do since as you know PETS as MOBS have high HP and with the PvP cap in place its not as easy as a regular mob).

So MPs have a distinct advantage upon them that puts them right under Soldiers. Any good soldier can beat an MP or any other proffesion they are the kings of PvP.

[_______________Hiero]

Generally MP's healing pets do not have much HP. Only the low level MP's with High level pets do okay in this manner. But the gap between healing pets is quite large so you soon out level your pet...and it can be quite a wait until the next pet.

Killing the healing pet is surely not so hard. Sure MP's are tough, but if a good profession... Enf, soldier higher lvl engineer can take out the healing pet...the MP is pretty much stuffed.

Two reasons usullay the MP don't raise Evade. If they do raise this skill it is dark blue so it isn't much use. MP's attack is pretty lousy, but sure the pets more than make up for this.

At any rate. Before making comparisons wait until all the other professions are re-balanced and brought into line with MP's. MP's may look good now...but when FC are done...so will most the other classes.

[_______Spookymonster]

Your argument really shouldn't be 'nerf healing pets', but rather 'nerf PvP healing'. This is a far more common complaint, and somewhat justified. With the right tactics, our healing pets are fairly easy to neutralize. However, Docs aren't dependent on pets for their healing. Nerf pets, and you've addressed half your problem; nerf PvP healing, and you've got a more rounded solution (albeit not necessarily a good one ).

[____________Rollback]

Originally posted by Hiero
Two reasons usullay the MP don't raise Evade. If they do raise this skill it is dark blue so it isn't much use. MP's attack is pretty lousy, but sure the pets more than make up for this.

Are you sure all MP's Evade Skills are dark blue ?

[_______Spookymonster]

Rollback,

There is the skill called Evade, and then there are the group of skills referred to as the 'evade skills'. Hiero is referring to the Evade skill (a single skill), which is dark blue.

[____________Shepherd]

Originally posted by Spookymonster
There is the skill called Evade, and then there are the group of skills referred to as the 'evade skills'. Hiero is referring to the Evade skill (a single skill), which is dark blue.

The Evade skill and the Dodge skill are *light* blue for metaphysicists. Metas have the fifth best evasion skills in the game. (MAs, Enforcers, Adventurers, Agents, then Metas.) Plus they have nanos and summoned items that increase their evasion skills, AC, and hit points. Funcom intended Metas to be the Tankmages of AO, and they can be very hard to kill.
To balance that out, Metas do very poor damage by themselves. Want a hint for PvP versus a meta? Root the combat pet. If you take the combat pet out of the picture you've defanged the metaphysicist -- you may not be able to kill him, but he won't be able to kill you.

As for the healing pet...yeah, it's good, but it dies very easily and is not nearly as useful as you think it is. Your analysis is flawed, since an opponent will get 3-5 attacks in during the time it takes the pet to heal once. So I don't see how it's overpowered...if the pet is healing 48% (mine does more like 10%), you only have to do 10% per hit to beat him down. It's no worse than doctors, who are now the true kings of PvP.

[blu789]

Dodge and evade are blue, duck explosion is dark blue.

At low levels, twinked MPs are brutally tough. But if the rookie meta-p you are refering to is the level 30 rookie Omni MP who fights in Tir arena, uh, he'd own anyone. It's not because he's a meta-p - it's because he's twinked to high heaven. He is twinked beyond belief. His hammer, implants, and AC would put most level 40 and 50 enforcers to shame.

Not a good example.

Once metas hit level 36, they get their best possible healing pet for 21-25 levels. They get one more combat pet between level 36 and 53, assuming your twinked to the max.

At low levels, meta-Ps are tough. They start to lose their steam for a bit in levels 45-55.

Tim

[________________Miir]

Ive seen an MP take on a group of 6 people with the heal pet

No offence, but it must have been a group of morons.
Root combat pet, root meta, kill heal pet, kill meta.


Professions who cant root will have a harder time against a meta.

as you know PETS as MOBS have high HP and with the PvP cap in place its not as easy as a regular mob

Heal pets have miniscule AC.
Heal pets have a fraction of the HP as a combat pet.
Heal pets have zero attack skills.

MP pets can heal for more than 40% health before you can hit for 40% of someones health. The minute 1 damage point is hit on the target the MP pet starts bobbing up and down like a fishing hook and spits out heals left and right.

I have been using Restite for the past 25 levels.
It heals a maximum of 480 every 18-20 seconds.
480 is roughly 20% of my HP.

If you are my level and you can't do 480 damage every 20 seconds, you suck.

Metas have the fifth best evasion skills in the game. (MAs, Enforcers, Adventurers, Agents, then Metas.)

Soldiers and Fixers have nearly identical evade skills a metas.
Metas lie right in the middle of all professions on evation skills.
The also lie dead last in offensive skills.



------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm getting tired of these people whining about how godly metas are. The current crop of twink metas are pretty powerful up to around level 40-45. I can't argue that, but their power slowly decreases as they get higher in level.

In PvP (not duels and arena) metas are actually very mediocre.

They have no instant attacks.
The pets do steady, consistent damage.
They are easily neutralised by smart players.

If I am in a PvP zone and see Attacked by, my best course of action is to stick the heal pet on me and start casting QW. Getting bursted for 800-900 and Full Auto for 1k puts me in a very unfavorable position.

Skirmishes in the arena with lowbie twink metas are not an accurate way to judge PvP balance.

[____________Shepherd]

Soldiers and Fixers have nearly identical evade skills a metas.
Metas lie right in the middle of all professions on evation skills.
The also lie dead last in offensive skills.

Whoops, I transposed Agents and Fixers -- Fixers are better than a meta, Agents are worse. Agents and Soldiers have two dark blue evasion skills. The only thing that makes Soldiers good tanks is their green body development and their mirror shields. I know we disagree on this, Miir, but I maintain that Metas are better tanks than 2/3rds of the other professions.

We completely agree on offensive skills -- MPs are dead last for firepower.

[______________Dareus]

Also, as an MP PvE, I have no reason to raise evades.

My pets tank for me. If I were to PvP, I think I'd get wiped alot faster then my pet could heal.

[Miriandel]

I'm level 109 nano-breed (so the less health).
I have 125 life implants and 120 board.
My healing peta heals 16-18% of my hitpoints every... dunno... 6 or 10 seconds ?

Where did you pick that 48+ percent ?

Not a flame, but it looks like you got your ass handed to you by better player than you and blame the game.

I don't know if you're mystical, but you're gimped, that's for sure



P.S.: ok, ok, it's nearly X-Mas, let's be kind: please don't post on other professions boards unless you really know what you're talking about.
False assumptions are bad for everyone, and enforcer is the last class to have to complain about, isn't it ?

[_______Spookymonster]

My appologies; I knew one of our evades was dark blue. I made a poor guess as to which one .

[____________Rollback]

Originally posted by Spookymonster
My appologies; I knew one of our evades was dark blue. I made a poor guess as to which one .

No problem I frequently raise a bit my Evade and Dodge skills for avoiding too much critics. I do that because precisely theses skills are not dark blue. But against a Trader with a Shotgun or an Enforcer with a Chair, do not bet on me

[engelstein]

If the enforcer is hitting you with a *chair* and expecting to win, then you shouldn't have too much trouble wiping him. Course, you gotta look out for the beams.

[____________Rollback]

Originally posted by Engelstein
If the enforcer is hitting you with a *chair* and expecting to win, then you shouldn't have too much trouble wiping him. Course, you gotta look out for the beams.

Yes ! The Atrox Enforcer attacks you with a chair, you laugh at him even if you know that the Defense Skill for that is Duck Explosion and he can make critics. Then he changes his weapon for a Edgeless Beam... You stop laughing

[________________Cern]

An MP beat my enforcer! Pity ;(. I'll let you in on a secret --

Back in the days before metas got love - metas were hard to play. Even harder to Pvp! In fact only 2 clan MP and no omni MP that I know of ever got the coveted title of freshman. Vivelafrance was one (cancelled), I was the other. Both of us earned freshman around lvl 40-45. The sweet spot for metas, pre pre patch. Guess how we earned it?

Killing Enforcers. Yep. Didn't have a heal pet either. I routinly took on twinked enforcers 10 levels about me and won. Ask Obitus or Leviathoness on game if you want proof. Why do MP's kill enforcers?

Well, really this system of pvp is just a big game of Rock/Paper/Scissors. Class 'a' can beat class 'b' but class 'a' cannot beat class 'c' while class 'b' easily beats class 'c'.

Believe it or not, MP's coupled with thier pet do as much damage over time as ANY class. Even an enforcer. Thing is MP damage is slow and constant. Most MP's dont have blazing specials that hit for uber damage. It's just a constant ticking of hp coming from the MP on a regular basis. Let an MP live long enough and he WILL beat you, heal pet or not.

Classes that deal fast uber damage and then thier damage backs way off are the bane of MP's. However if the mP can survive the specials he has a fighting chance.

Enforcers, dont be upset that an MP beats you. After all you can beat classes he cannot.

There is no one class that is better than anyone else and routinly owns everyone in pvp. Well, possibly traders.

Rookie Harlan "Cern" Lawrence
Lvl 132 MP
Rubi - Ka 1

[Mysticalgimp]

Originally posted by Miir


No offence, but it must have been a group of morons.
Root combat pet, root meta, kill heal pet, kill meta.


Professions who cant root will have a harder time against a meta.




Heal pets have miniscule AC.
Heal pets have a fraction of the HP as a combat pet.
Heal pets have zero attack skills.


[/b]

I have been using Restite for the past 25 levels.
It heals a maximum of 480 every 18-20 seconds.
480 is roughly 20% of my HP.

If you are my level and you can't do 480 damage every 20 seconds, you suck.




Soldiers and Fixers have nearly identical evade skills a metas.
Metas lie right in the middle of all professions on evation skills.
The also lie dead last in offensive skills.



------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm getting tired of these people whining about how godly metas are. The current crop of twink metas are pretty powerful up to around level 40-45. I can't argue that, but their power slowly decreases as they get higher in level.

In PvP (not duels and arena) metas are actually very mediocre.

They have no instant attacks.
The pets do steady, consistent damage.
They are easily neutralised by smart players.

If I am in a PvP zone and see Attacked by, my best course of action is to stick the heal pet on me and start casting QW. Getting bursted for 800-900 and Full Auto for 1k puts me in a very unfavorable position.

Skirmishes in the arena with lowbie twink metas are not an accurate way to judge PvP balance. [/B]

"I have been using Restite for the past 25 levels.
It heals a maximum of 480 every 18-20 seconds.
480 is roughly 20% of my HP." I have had a heal pet placed on me and it healed WAY more than 18-20 seconds.. infact I can time it for you if you wish. It was more like 3-8.


"Heal pets have miniscule AC.
Heal pets have a fraction of the HP as a combat pet.
Heal pets have zero attack skills."
Miniscule AC? AC? ROFL! They are heal pets.. why do they need ac? Zero attack skills because again... they are heal pets... The pet is hard to kill in PvP with capped damage.

"In PvP (not duels and arena) metas are actually very mediocre.

They have no instant attacks.
The pets do steady, consistent damage.
They are easily neutralised by smart players."
So untrue. ive seen metas take out enforcer 10 lvls above them that have Rookie titles. Steady adn consistent? More like UBER. Easily Neutralised by smart players? So your calling 89% Of AO morons?


"No offence, but it must have been a group of morons.
Root combat pet, root meta, kill heal pet, kill meta."
And if the MP has good nano resist he will resist the root. Also.. MPs can root too.

"Skirmishes in the arena with lowbie twink metas are not an accurate way to judge PvP balance" From lowbies twinking to huge lvl 200 Duels. PvP is PvP and must be balanced both ways.

"I'm getting tired of these people whining about how godly metas are. The current crop of twink metas are pretty powerful up to around level 40-45. I can't argue that, but their power slowly decreases as they get higher in level."
I dont think theres anything power decreasing about being able to summon demons.. heal pets.. weapons... have a pet to damage for you.. get roots... get nukes.. and then on top of that a load crapful of pet buffs with nano and damage reductions offensive nanos.

Also.. as to how 'godly' mps are.. Check out this:http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...?threadid=3974

[___________Satherial]

I wish my pet healed every 3-8 seconds

I'd say it's something around 10 seconds.

[________________Miir]

have had a heal pet placed on me and it healed WAY more than 18-20 seconds.. infact I can time it for you if you wish. It was more like 3-8.

My mistake, it's roughly every 15 seconds.

Miniscule AC? AC? ROFL! They are heal pets.. why do they need ac? Zero attack skills because again... they are heal pets... The pet is hard to kill in PvP with capped damage.

You're complaining that heal pets are hard to kill?
Are you a little bit slow?

So untrue. ive seen metas take out enforcer 10 lvls above them that have Rookie titles. Steady adn consistent? More like UBER. Easily Neutralised by smart players? So your calling 89% Of AO morons?

What does a title mean?
I could get Rookie on any one of my characters in about 30 minutes if I felt compelled to do it.

Enforcers are one of the professions that metas are very powerful against. They have no means to neutralise any of thje metas advantages.

Do you honestly believe that 89% of AO players even partake in PvP? If so, I think you belong in that 89th percentile.

And if the MP has good nano resist he will resist the root. Also.. MPs can root too.

Metas can root?
Yes, you definately belong in the aforementioned 89%.

I dont think theres anything power decreasing about being able to summon demons.. heal pets.. weapons... have a pet to damage for you.. get roots... get nukes.. and then on top of that a load crapful of pet buffs with nano and damage reductions offensive nanos.

Demons? They are just the same old combat pets with different appearance. I think after 130 levels, we deserve a different looking pet.... don't you?

Heal pets?
Okay, I was level 65 before metas had a heal pet that actually worked. At level 101, I am just a few levels away from getting my final heal pet. They are awesome and I'm glad they are finally working properly.

Weapons are decent. The stat bonuses aren't half bad. Most metas rarely even melee with them. Their damage output is negligiable.

There are 3 lines of pet buffs. Chant, Instill and Anima.
Since this thread is about PvP, I must mention that pets cannot be buffed in PvP zones.

METAS CANNOT ROOT

Meta nukes are on par with Doctor nukes.

The debuff, damage reduction nanos are all but useless at higher levels. I have never actually bought one. I have 3 uploaded. All of which have been found in mission chests.



I bet you are an Enforcer who got schooled by a green meta.

[________Dealingdeath]

Leave the MPs alone ....they finally go their well deserved love.

No more nerfs ever!!!

NERF THE WHINERS - STOP NERF MADNESS