duel home defenders....anygood?

[lovepills]

ok im getting ips to spend now at last!
started spending for the ithica..but there are just loads of peeps with those and i was wondering if duel home defenders could be as good?...and what lvl do they go to. it would be nice to be different, but im not going to if it means haveing a lesser set up.
anyone tryed this?..im starting to see how much fun the doc really gets once u get past the weponless stage...its a sweet reward for a very tough time docs have in there lower lvls

[Jynne]

Single home defender is great. It's an incredibly good weapon.

Dual defenders is bad... the multi wield requirements are very high and prevent you from using one in your off hand over ql 120 or so, with maxed and implanted multi range at level 200. You end up doing less damage because your off hand gun is too weak, than if you were single wielding.

You could possibly dual one with something else... such as an old Freedom Arms 3927 pistol... and get pretty good results, however.

[lovepills]

thanks for anwser!..

[Doctordustin]

Whoa Jynne.. I understood nothing of what you said. I'm a total weapons newb... would you mind breaking that one down for me...


Thanks love!

[Jynne]

Dual wielding is incredibly complicated. I'll give you the simple explanation.

Weapons have a certain minimum requirement in multi-wield skill to be able to dual wield. At least one of the two weapons you wield with multi-wield, needs to meet that requirement.

In most cases the QL of the weapon you multiwield is limited not by your weapon skill for equipping one of those weapons, but by your ability to meet its multi wield requirement. This is especially true for ranged weapons, because ranged weapons multiranged requirements increase dramatically as the QL of the weapon goes up. And for professions that have dark blue multi-ranged skills, which almost all do, it becomes impossible to wield a high QL gun in the second hand.

This is important because dual wielding increases the number of attacks you make overall by 33%, but half the attacks you make come from each weapon. So if your secondary weapon is too weak, it saps harder-hitting attacks away from your main weapon and you do less damage than if you were only using one weapon.

Finally... the old FA pistols are good because they have low multi requirements. But they also require pistol, ranged energy, and flingshot... they would be horrible IP sinks for a doctor to raise in addition to shotgun and multi wield. If you want to spend that many IP, you'd be better off using a different, heavier weapon type entirely.

[BigBubba]

The only way to duel weild shottys is to be atrox and use a home defender and a Kick pistol .... well if you want to have two 200ql guns on .... Even then it was a pain to get 2 200s on... You would have to wait untill level 195+ too do. I didnt get my 2 200s on untill I was 200 .




Eunucha 200 Trox Doc
Neutered 100ish Trox Adv

[Portulis]

Home Defenders are slow......

With the HD you can dual a Missile Raid and I'm guessing with Notum Wars a doc could get a 190+ Raid on the left hand.

I'm not endorsing that by any means, as the current multirange spec and function is borked.

Reasonable combination is Home Defender and Custom Desert Reet (custom desert reets do nice base damage), or One Hander.
One Handers require burst and fling and look like a level 180+ gun for docs.

[Doctordustin]

Ok, thanks... That makes perfect sense. I really appreciate the explanation...

Right now I'm wielding a ql123 X-3, and a little frustrated because of my still low attack rating... 373 seems poor, and my damage pretty much sucks compared to everyone else in my teams... But thats the price you pay, i suppose, for being a good healer...

Multiwield will be something for the high lvl game, but I'm glad i understand it better now...

[Jynne]

Have you maxed your rifle skill and triple implanted rifle? If you're in title 4 you should be able to get in ql 200 implants, and that will be +205 to your rifle skill (thus making your attack rating higher).

[Fueler]

Go get the HUD: Enhanced Target Acquisition from the boss in Foremans office adds 1 to crit and 180+ to ranged init. it helps if you wanna get closer to that 1/1 ratio which is really neat. Im wielding Assassins FDA Caterwaul right now, but thats just for the fast AS recycle when i PvP. Hoped this helped.

Regards, Hyjal

[patoliver]

I think its *really* really* funny how you get to meet the same people over and over at and about the same lvl!

Lovepill and I are two 110-120 Omni Docs on RK2 who are sharing the same trials and tribulations. Always meet up for a natter etc etc etc


Funny story - Last Saturday night (GMT night - Lovepill is on GMT+1 I think) we were in Trade just chatting (hidden in a corner as its a well known fact that if u sit still as a doc in trade you get asked :-
A) To Team
B) For IC
C) For +80 treatment if you're anywhere over lvl 50!
D) +35 treatment when u explain thats the best that you can do and they realise that its enough

We were both pretty drunk lol So I started shouting
'Drunk doc in Trade, Free IC & Treatment Buffs - Get em whilst you can - /tell lovepill!'

Dont think she like me any more

Pat
(aka HPlease)
--------------

[lovepills]

hey WOOT at lvl 113 with some major twinking ,begging for buffs
i got a ql 90 home defender on*snicker*
...and this is the good part its NOT oe!
sigh.. well at least i can do alvins part one at last..nice crits it does though..but im far from being able to pvp yet,but thats to be expected

[Doctordustin]

Jynne, right now I'm not maxing my rifle and do not have it triple implanted... Atm I'm using ql125 implants from the beginning of tl4 and am waiting a bit to upgrade.

Right now I'm doing a major ip dump into pm\si for +80, I only need one more lvl, maybe two then I'm there... I had neglected those skills so very long that i was gimped, no decent dots or init debuffs... SO, once im through with that I'll re max my rifle and then start looking at some new implants. To be honest, I'm a little intimidated by the ql200 imps... A lot of work to find and equip. But I know the buffs will be major, just haven't quite worked out how i want to do them, not even sure what i want in them yet... However, I do have a lovely ql200 X3 in my inventory that i can't wait to use...

Any ideas?

[Jynne]

Originally posted by Doctordustin
Jynne, right now I'm not maxing my rifle and do not have it triple implanted... Atm I'm using ql125 implants from the beginning of tl4 and am waiting a bit to upgrade.

Right now I'm doing a major ip dump into pm\si for +80, I only need one more lvl, maybe two then I'm there... I had neglected those skills so very long that i was gimped, no decent dots or init debuffs... SO, once im through with that I'll re max my rifle and then start looking at some new implants. To be honest, I'm a little intimidated by the ql200 imps... A lot of work to find and equip. But I know the buffs will be major, just haven't quite worked out how i want to do them, not even sure what i want in them yet... However, I do have a lovely ql200 X3 in my inventory that i can't wait to use...

Any ideas?

I'd triple implant it with 125s then, if you are concerned about your damage output.

If you're under title 5 I wouldn't even bother with SI or MC (+80 and DoTs). If you don't do signficant amounts of PvP, don't bother with PM either. I couldn't self-cast superior first aid until after level 155 and I never felt a lack for it. I didn't upgrade my DoTs from level 110, until after level 170 - and it never hurt me a bit.

For your implants... I put in my first full set of ql 200s at level 129, though I could have gotten them in as many as 10 levels earlier with a lot more work. If you want to do it the lazy way, keep a faded treatment cluster in your ql 200 right hand implant, this will let you get in a ql 200 eye and head without going to extremes for treatment skill. I think your treatment, unbuffed and unimplanted, needs to be around 560-580 or so in order to fit in a full set of 200s.

A few hints... get a biomech cloak and a biomech helmet, and get the highest ql treatment and pharmacy library you can equip by using temporary complit implants too. In fact when you're going to upgrade to 200s the first time, it's a good chance to upgrade your NCUs and maps with ql 150-180 temporary implants.

[Portulis]

A few interesting points here.

1. If you are a doc, below title level 5 nobody cares what kind of damage you do as long as you heal well. CH the tank a few times and he'll think you are swell, even if your 75% OE rifle is going miss miss miss.

2. Nanoskills for docs. BM/MM/TS always raise. MC>PM>SI. Don't get hung up at title level 4 about doing SFA. I could cast it in the 130/140 range but then again I have a nanomage doc. There are tons of 150+ docs running around these days, most all of them can cast SFA, and prior to title level 5 you won't be doing much implant swapping, so you don't really need it. During title level 4 raise your SI high enough to use instinctive control but you can leave that alone for a bit.

3. Think about what your weapon is for. What good is a 125 X3 in a 180 team mission? Are Caterwaul docs currently "owning" on the battlefield? At title level 4 you are trying to do better heals and lusting to do complete heal. What weapon skills can help you do that? You don't want to raise one weapon skill just to IPR it later, you only get 15 IPR. Should a title level 4 doc use an Ithica? No. If you are a shotgun doc at title level 4, use a Krutt, you can get up to 18 intelligence points with one, worth up to 4 or 5 nanoskill bonus. If you have a QL 50ish pepper pistol, you can implant that, get extreme predudice, and a wrangle, and equip 10-14 extra biomet. Hardly any IP needed to get that pepper pistol on at title level 4 if you have a shining small arms pistol implant. Later on down the road when you can self equip your shotguns that pistol skill will come in handy-use a Jess to get that Morphing memory in for example. Also remember when you are using rifle you are giving up 2!! nanoresistance clusters, which means you are that more likely to be deprived and plundered on the battlefield.

[Jynne]

Morelian is very wise in the ways of weapons.

However... I have to say that while a lot of doctors like nanoresist... I don't. Not enough to implant it over rifle or AS, if I was using a rifle or an ithaca.

The reason is pretty simple... NR is luck. Unless you can get it up to the 1300-1500 range like an enforcer, you can't rely on it very much at all. From my experience, 900 NR is just as useful as 1000 NR, or 800 NR. If you get targeted by a trader for divest... divest will almost always land. In a mass battle I doubt he'll even bother trying to plunder - if you were targeted for a specific takedown then you'll be dead without being plundered, or if the trader is just trying to debuff a lot of people, he's not going to use plunder on any of them since it's 190% resist. Other debuffs are the same - either you're being targeted and it doesn't matter, or they're tab-debuffing and moving on, and you can virus scan it.

But 1000 AS is better than 900 AS, and 800 rifle is better than 700 rifle. Etcetera.

Still... make your own decisions based on your own experience

[Darkbane]

My docs don't use them, but I've an NT dualling them (its nice extra damage, but as the ql's are under her level not good to rely on as your main damage source) and a 'crat who uses a single one (may dual a pistol of some sort later on if she ever gets to higher level). Dualling them as a main damage source? No. Even one is very nice though.

[___________Chlamydia]

As a Dual tellus Soldier I can say that Dual wielding only becomes really a treat when you can do a 200/150 split or better.

This will never ever happen on a HD, the MR reqs are super high and there is no such thing as a buff for MR, not even the +20.

Should a title level 4 doc use an Ithica? No.

lol. okay.....

And whats this I hear about not being able to cast SFA at 130/140? Im solitus and was able to self cast it at 111. and I wasnt gimping anything cept NR, which I have since maxed. *shrug* difrent strokes.

As far as the X-3 / Riffle thing. I could proly reset Shotty (12 point skill) and Fling (16 point skill) and have enough to max riffle (20! point skill. highest posible). But why? The HD is cheaper to put on, hits almost as hard with better crits, and is .2/.1 slower... Just ont bother trying to multi-wield them

[_______________Hypos]

Off topic here, but I think our previous concept of when certain nanos can be cast has to be thrown out the window. With org and tower buffs docs will be self casting nanos at earlier levels than any of us old timers ever thought possible.

It's a new world.

[___________Chlamydia]

well I get no bonuses from my guild towers