Page 4 of 8 FirstFirst 12345678 LastLast
Results 61 to 80 of 153

Thread: Remove the mechanics for complete IPR and burn the disks the code is on!

  1. #61
    and what about people who make mistakes with theyre char? i recently tried to make my adv playable again, but due to my awful IP distribution
    it wasn't possible with just IPR, why not offer a complete reset point once every 3-6 months or so, offer it for a month, then remove till the next time, this way people wouldnt just be able to reset theyre chars every time a patch came out to make them 'uber' , or alternatively give 1 full reset per char, with no way of earning more

    and as for thinking turbine (i havent played a verant game for ages so i cant comment on them) would laugh at full resets.... ac2's skill system lets you retrain ANY skill whenever you want, you just need to gain the same amount of xp as you put into the skill... took me about 1 1/2 lvls to completly change my melee defender into a bow ranger, thats hardly slower than once every 6 months....

  2. #62
    Originally posted by Zio
    and what about people who make mistakes with theyre char? i recently tried to make my adv playable again, but due to my awful IP distribution
    it wasn't possible with just IPR, why not offer a complete reset point once every 3-6 months or so, offer it for a month, then remove till the next time, this way people wouldnt just be able to reset theyre chars every time a patch came out to make them 'uber' , or alternatively give 1 full reset per char, with no way of earning more

    and as for thinking turbine (i havent played a verant game for ages so i cant comment on them) would laugh at full resets.... ac2's skill system lets you retrain ANY skill whenever you want, you just need to gain the same amount of xp as you put into the skill... took me about 1 1/2 lvls to completly change my melee defender into a bow ranger, thats hardly slower than once every 6 months....
    Okay, you had invested 1 1/2 levels into your meleed defender. What happens when you've invested 15 levels? That's the catch is it?

    I don't know how much XP you can invest in a skill in AC2. But as you said you have to have the same amount of XP as you put into the skill. So if you've put 5 levels worth into a skill, you have to accumulate 5 levels worth before you can retrain that skill correct? 1 1/2 levels is how much game time? And what level are you in comparison to the top end?
    History admires the wise, but it elevates the brave. - Edmund Morris

    The first faults are theirs that commit them, the second theirs that permit them. - Unknown

    Did you ever get the feeling that the world had an abundance of idiots? And that God had arranged for you to meet every single one of them before you died? - Kuroshio

  3. #63
    i mean it took 1 1/2 lvls to change my defender....
    and you can spend as much xp as you have on skills, it just gets more expensive fairly quicker, and i was 19 when changing, lvl caps at 50, so vaguely mid lvled, took about 3 hours, would of taken more, but i completed a vault which game me 3/4 a lvl worth of xp. if you were to put a whole 5 lvls into one skill, then yes it would take about 3 (maybe, im guessing) to reset it as the higher lvl, the more xp per lvl, i'd explain in more detail but these arent ac2 forums

  4. #64
    they give you 15 IPR to play with... If you make a mistake I guess you can use one of "funcom's mistakes" to fix it.. everyone does... It is trendy.

    being given 15 IPR's is such a big gift I am still astounded by it

    give em an inch and they take a mile is my menatlity for most Pro-IPR people.
    I am Dnastyone Official Broom pusher for The Professionals
    Painmage my newest funnest guy
    PHEAR ME RK1 Yazule IMMMM BACK

    I would have to say that this is an typicall example of how an flame should not look like. You need to think things through and calm down before you try to write an flame... Im sorry but I would rate this flame with an 1. Aggression is to high, grammar and cursing isnt to well planned... Maybe he has an point somewhere in there but I dont even want to find it. - Centurion3

    ROFLOL

  5. #65
    ok, basically people are saying they want to experiment with different styles of gameplay, and that is fine really. I would now like to experiment with playing my fixer with GA3, can I have it for free now please? no? How about a full free set of CDS suitable for my level so I can experiment playing with that? How about a free EQB so I can make an enforcer and experiment with that? NS 1 and 2 so I can make up a NT and experiment with that?

    Anyone who doesn't see the connection between this and what you are asking for, please think for a while about it before you flame me.

    hugs

    lilnymph
    Lilnymph - Clan Fixer - RK1
    lilnymph wrote on November 21st, 2003 08:01:01:
    You may take our postcount threads, but you will never take our FREEDOM!!!!!
    Originally posted by Cz
    The post count is mine! All mine! Mwahahahah!

    40.476190476190474% of me is a huge nerd! How about you?
    Style over Substance

  6. #66
    I still don't get a lot of these arguments.

    If people don't want to use a complete IPR, then they don't have to. I know my characters wouldn't bother. And I don't even care if they ever offer another complete IPR, because none of my characters really need it.

    But it still seems petty and childish to try and keep complete IPRs away from people who would really like to fix an old character, or try a completely new style with an existing character.

    Nerfs happen all the time (without complete IPRs).

    Cookie cutter characters happen all the time (without IPRs).

    If everyone wants to switch to one hot weapon, they can do it with a couple of the existing single-skill IPR points. If you have a roleplaying "Identity", it should have more to do with how you roleplay than how you dress or which weapon you use.

    Even the argument about the poor, struggling tradeskillers doesn't make much sense. Most tradeskills aren't worth the time and IP until you reach a high skill. So all of the tradeskillers I know just ignore them until they are >150 and then max a few green skills all at once. I have a hard time believing that there are a lot of high level non-tradeskiller engineers and traders lurking about just waiting for an IPR so that they will finally be able to raise a couple green tradeskills.

    Oh well. Like I said, I don't need a complete IPR and don't particularly care if they ever have another. But it wouldn't harshen my mellow if they let people have them. I guess all the nanomage enforcers would start acting and looking just like me, cause I am Dead Sexy!

  7. #67
    Originally posted by Curmudgeon
    I still don't get a lot of these arguments.

    If people don't want to use a complete IPR, then they don't have to. I know my characters wouldn't bother. And I don't even care if they ever offer another complete IPR, because none of my characters really need it.

    But it still seems petty and childish to try and keep complete IPRs away from people who would really like to fix an old character, or try a completely new style with an existing character.

    Nerfs happen all the time (without complete IPRs).

    Cookie cutter characters happen all the time (without IPRs).

    If everyone wants to switch to one hot weapon, they can do it with a couple of the existing single-skill IPR points. If you have a roleplaying "Identity", it should have more to do with how you roleplay than how you dress or which weapon you use.

    Even the argument about the poor, struggling tradeskillers doesn't make much sense. Most tradeskills aren't worth the time and IP until you reach a high skill. So all of the tradeskillers I know just ignore them until they are >150 and then max a few green skills all at once. I have a hard time believing that there are a lot of high level non-tradeskiller engineers and traders lurking about just waiting for an IPR so that they will finally be able to raise a couple green tradeskills.

    Oh well. Like I said, I don't need a complete IPR and don't particularly care if they ever have another. But it wouldn't harshen my mellow if they let people have them. I guess all the nanomage enforcers would start acting and looking just like me, cause I am Dead Sexy!
    Nobody needs to completly reset their characters. The original one was done because of the sum changes made from release to skills and, most importantly, the lost IP to bugs in the system The bugs in the IP system are long gone. Since then, Funcom has learned how to rebalance skills without people losing points (see the changes made to Atroxi and Nanomages). And personally I suspect when the Shadowlands comes, Funcom already has plans to allow people to take advantage of the skill specialization without needing extra IPR. There are no reason left in the game for a complete one.

    Read the thread and the threads demanding a more IPR. You say if a person wants to switch to one hot weapon they can use single reset points. The people posting have used there single reset points up. Now they need more to keep switching to the hot weapon on the week. And everyone arguing for reset points with me hasn't addressed any of the comments I've made on what happens when too many people start using the current uber weapon of the week (nerfs).

    Also if you read the threads about reset points and someone mentions the Notum Wars as the reason for needing one, the primary reasons given are they hadn't planned on using tradeskills and now want to. Or they never planned on PvP and now want to tweak their characters to PvP (like it's impossible to participate in mass PvP with a normal character). They damn sure aren't demanding them to reset enough skills to put into Vehicle Air for the Stilleto

    This thread isn't about experimentation. It isn't about repairing old characters, What it's about is people wanting to be able to switch to the "Weapon/Armor/Skill of the Week" every week. If people honestly wanted to experiment with a new style of gameplay, why has there not been a single suggestions to temporarily allow that experimentation? They can't think of one? No. Because they want to obtain and keep it. Until the next time another weapon or skill set floats to the top of the "Cool Pool". So they can switch again and keep those advantages as well.
    History admires the wise, but it elevates the brave. - Edmund Morris

    The first faults are theirs that commit them, the second theirs that permit them. - Unknown

    Did you ever get the feeling that the world had an abundance of idiots? And that God had arranged for you to meet every single one of them before you died? - Kuroshio

  8. #68
    Originally posted by Curmudgeon

    Nerfs happen all the time (without complete IPRs).

    Cookie cutter characters happen all the time (without IPRs).

    nerfs happen more often when everyone changes to flavor of the month (FA's were REMOVED from the game because EVERYONE was using them)

    Cookie cutters are more common with IPR, so you are saying that you aprove of this? If I experiment with something, get truly unique and at the same time am powerfull and "uber"... then people take their IPR's and decide to turn my uniqueness into a cookie cutter... I am mad..

    IPR are not good.


    Slow reduction in skills over time I could accept, the "instant change" is bad bad bad
    I am Dnastyone Official Broom pusher for The Professionals
    Painmage my newest funnest guy
    PHEAR ME RK1 Yazule IMMMM BACK

    I would have to say that this is an typicall example of how an flame should not look like. You need to think things through and calm down before you try to write an flame... Im sorry but I would rate this flame with an 1. Aggression is to high, grammar and cursing isnt to well planned... Maybe he has an point somewhere in there but I dont even want to find it. - Centurion3

    ROFLOL

  9. #69
    the best argument i've seen against making it too easy to change your char around to this patch's uber setup is that it more quickly leads to nerfs. gradually changing your character by earning IPR or unlearning skills more slowly leads to nerfs. so yes, lets slow the rate of nerfs if we can.

  10. #70
    Originally posted by Thyrra
    the best argument i've seen against making it too easy to change your char around to this patch's uber setup is that it more quickly leads to nerfs. gradually changing your character by earning IPR or unlearning skills more slowly leads to nerfs. so yes, lets slow the rate of nerfs if we can.
    The bad part is I can't really argue with FC's method much, no matter how much I dislike it. If a nation's economy has too much money in it, causing inflation, the govt increases taxes (aka nerfs money). If there's too much damage being done by the playerbase as a whole, what can you do but nerf it? Not introduce new stuff? That's worse, in my opinion
    History admires the wise, but it elevates the brave. - Edmund Morris

    The first faults are theirs that commit them, the second theirs that permit them. - Unknown

    Did you ever get the feeling that the world had an abundance of idiots? And that God had arranged for you to meet every single one of them before you died? - Kuroshio

  11. #71

    about turbine

    Originally posted by Zio

    and as for thinking turbine (i havent played a verant game for ages so i cant comment on them) would laugh at full resets.... ac2's skill system lets you retrain ANY skill whenever you want, you just need to gain the same amount of xp as you put into the skill... took me about 1 1/2 lvls to completly change my melee defender into a bow ranger, thats hardly slower than once every 6 months....
    they have introduced a quest for reskilling which can be done every 3 weeks that could be compared to a free ipr in ao every 3 weeks.

    if such a thing were introduced i would agree that there is no need a full time ipr.

    flat out denying a full ipr is imo pretty arrogant because not everybody who starts the game has or had the opportunity to gather info on the web - think about people who started playing before all of the current info was around who are now returning.

    as for the "inflation" argument:

    this happens in every mmorpg. it cant be helped really, the only way to prevent this is to add more variance.

    atm the trend is all for slow, hard hitting weapons with low crits because due to crit nerfs fast hitting weapons are no longer as viable an option as before. they are good for those times when you camp something and need to unload a massive alpha on it to get looting rights or in pvp but thats it.

    i wont deny that the weapon situation is better then at launch because - at least for everyday pvm - you can find a weapon that keeps you afloat in every weapon style now (well maybe not thrown or grenade launchers but you get the point - there are now electronicums, schuyler bows, x3 rifles ....) but please keep in mind that at least 70% of the weapons in aos database are complete and utter junk nobody in their right mind would consider to use.

    of course people flock to the manex and x3 right now but that has to do with the database as much as with the flavor of the month imo.
    sept 03 - the day ao was keeled by sl.

    gone now. byebye.

  12. #72
    the trend has ALWAYS been on slow hard hitting weapons

    ac removes a specific amount of damage, not a % meaning that you lose X damage per hit, so the less hits you do for the same damage the better off you are.
    I am Dnastyone Official Broom pusher for The Professionals
    Painmage my newest funnest guy
    PHEAR ME RK1 Yazule IMMMM BACK

    I would have to say that this is an typicall example of how an flame should not look like. You need to think things through and calm down before you try to write an flame... Im sorry but I would rate this flame with an 1. Aggression is to high, grammar and cursing isnt to well planned... Maybe he has an point somewhere in there but I dont even want to find it. - Centurion3

    ROFLOL

  13. #73
    Originally posted by Yazule
    the trend has ALWAYS been on slow hard hitting weapons

    ac removes a specific amount of damage, not a % meaning that you lose X damage per hit, so the less hits you do for the same damage the better off you are.
    preach it!

  14. #74

    i am aware of the mechanics

    but i am not sure i understand the implication.

    are you saying that people who picked fast, crit reliant weapons back when it was a viable alternative should have known better because of the data compiled already?

    *shrug*

    anyway, what the rest of the world does is imo not of importance.

    what is of importance is that online games change - thats what patches are for.

    i salute you for your dedication of wanting to weather all nerfs and rule changes without asking for the opportunity to reskill but what is the problem if people do not share your view?

    i have yet to see an argument apart from i do not want them to and we have talked about the "mudflation" argument already.
    sept 03 - the day ao was keeled by sl.

    gone now. byebye.

  15. #75

    Re: i am aware of the mechanics

    Originally posted by Blackwing
    but i am not sure i understand the implication.

    are you saying that people who picked fast, crit reliant weapons back when it was a viable alternative should have known better because of the data compiled already?

    *shrug*

    anyway, what the rest of the world does is imo not of importance.

    what is of importance is that online games change - thats what patches are for.

    i salute you for your dedication of wanting to weather all nerfs and rule changes without asking for the opportunity to reskill but what is the problem if people do not share your view?

    i have yet to see an argument apart from i do not want them to and we have talked about the "mudflation" argument already.
    Well the first, "I do not want them", is just as valid as "I want them". Both are desires and are equally valid. So just because you don't agree doesn't mean you're right.

    The second, inflation, is a biggie that carries more weight than desire imo. Nerfs = bad. Inflation leads to nerfs. Simple logic says "Don't do things that increase the likelyhood of nerfs".

    The third, instant access to content (which you ignored), is another issue that I think overrides personal desire. After all the game is also about earning the the ability to use something new. not having it handed to you. Otherwise, why bother with loot and stuff? Why not just give everyone everything straight from character creation and say "Go kill everything. 'Kay thanx buh-bye!"?

    You can toss in the fact that nobody allows instant retraining of skill and the success they've had just for kicks. I actually do believe the reason people are so hell bent on having it done here is the hope that people are naive enough to allow it. I've seen a game where they allowed instant retraining of skills, with no cost or penalty. What happened was the players switched skillsets according to whatever raid they were getting ready to go on. Needed a mage that had uber fire damage because that's the only damage type the mob was vuln to? Wait a sec...*fiddle*...There, let's run him down. Need your armor repaired after the fight, which required the skills of a master craftsman? Hang on...*fiddle*...There, hand it over. The developers of that game learned pretty damn fast what that type of freedom did to the game and the people in it. After about 2 months, they started charging people to reset skills. Oddly enough, with a price tag attached to it, people suddenly became able to play their characters as they had developed them
    History admires the wise, but it elevates the brave. - Edmund Morris

    The first faults are theirs that commit them, the second theirs that permit them. - Unknown

    Did you ever get the feeling that the world had an abundance of idiots? And that God had arranged for you to meet every single one of them before you died? - Kuroshio

  16. #76
    not one answer to my argument? *pouts*

    I thought some of you where better at arguing than just ignoring it

    hugs

    lilnymph
    Lilnymph - Clan Fixer - RK1
    lilnymph wrote on November 21st, 2003 08:01:01:
    You may take our postcount threads, but you will never take our FREEDOM!!!!!
    Originally posted by Cz
    The post count is mine! All mine! Mwahahahah!

    40.476190476190474% of me is a huge nerd! How about you?
    Style over Substance

  17. #77
    Originally posted by lilnymph
    ok, basically people are saying they want to experiment with different styles of gameplay, and that is fine really. I would now like to experiment with playing my fixer with GA3, can I have it for free now please? no? How about a full free set of CDS suitable for my level so I can experiment playing with that? How about a free EQB so I can make an enforcer and experiment with that? NS 1 and 2 so I can make up a NT and experiment with that?

    Anyone who doesn't see the connection between this and what you are asking for, please think for a while about it before you flame me.

    hugs

    lilnymph
    I wasn't gonna argue with you, cause you're too darn cute.

    But since you seem to want it, here's my counter-argument. IPs are something that a character earns. By definition, resetting would mean taking from one skill and putting it into another. You'd be both losing capabilities and gaining capabilities.

    I do not see your connection between changing something I've earned, and getting free uber gear. But if I get an extra hug, I will pretend to see the connection.

  18. #78
    good counter argument. so heres my counter counter argument. If I had GA MK4, could I swap it for a full set of ql 200 CDS, so I could experiment with that?

    hugs

    lilnymph
    Lilnymph - Clan Fixer - RK1
    lilnymph wrote on November 21st, 2003 08:01:01:
    You may take our postcount threads, but you will never take our FREEDOM!!!!!
    Originally posted by Cz
    The post count is mine! All mine! Mwahahahah!

    40.476190476190474% of me is a huge nerd! How about you?
    Style over Substance

  19. #79

    Re: Re: i am aware of the mechanics

    Originally posted by Kuroshio
    Well the first, "I do not want them", is just as valid as "I want them". Both are desires and are equally valid. So just because you don't agree doesn't mean you're right.
    So just because you don't agree doesn't mean you're right either.

    Originally posted by Kuroshio
    The second, inflation, is a biggie that carries more weight than desire imo. Nerfs = bad. Inflation leads to nerfs. Simple logic says "Don't do things that increase the likelyhood of nerfs".
    I still don't agree with your argument that complete resets leads to mudflation or nerfs. Inflation does not necessarily lead to nerfs. It leads to certain weapons becoming obsolete compared to new ones, but that doesn't necessarily have anything to do with nerfs.

    Inflation is caused by games continually adding content that is better than previous content, so that they can retain customers who have already got all the best stuff in the game. Neither complete resets, nor inflation lead to nerfs.

    Nerfs are the result of poor game balance. Not just ordinary poor game balance, but game balance that is substantial enough that one weapon/nanoformula/etc significantly outshines the average.

    The only argument relating "nerfs" to "complete resets" that I can deduce is that people would jump on bandwagons a bit faster, and necessary balance corrections would come from FunCom a bit faster.

    Say for instance, if everyone could have reset some skills and jacked up Perception for crit scopes. Maybe that situation would have gotten uglier faster, and FunCom would have stepped in sooner. But something like that would have been nerfed sooner or later anyway. At least if you have the ability to reset your IPs, you could easily take your Perception back down.

    Originally posted by Kuroshio
    The third, instant access to content (which you ignored), is another issue that I think overrides personal desire. After all the game is also about earning the the ability to use something new. not having it handed to you. Otherwise, why bother with loot and stuff? Why not just give everyone everything straight from character creation and say "Go kill everything. 'Kay thanx buh-bye!"?.
    Since when does having a complete reset give you something unearned. I earned my IP, if I reset and raise some other skill then I have to pay for that by lowering another skill. Nothing is being handed out for free with a complete reset.

    Why bother with loot and stuff? Since when does changing how you spend the IP points you've earned result in free gear and experience? When you use a couple single-skill IPRs to move from 2HB to 2HE, do you get a free EQB?

    Originally posted by Kuroshio
    You can toss in the fact that nobody allows instant retraining of skill and the success they've had just for kicks. I actually do believe the reason people are so hell bent on having it done here is the hope that people are naive enough to allow it. I've seen a game where they allowed instant retraining of skills, with no cost or penalty. What happened was the players switched skillsets according to whatever raid they were getting ready to go on.
    I do agree that the situation above, of allowing unlimited and instant resets, is absolutely silly, would lead to horrible exploits/chaos, and should be avoided. But I disagree with the argument that the above example means that no complete resets should ever be allowed. If someone only got one complete reset per month, they obviously wouldn't gimp their combat skills just for one tradeskill combine.

    Oh well, I just like to argue. We'll obviously never agree on any of this.
    Last edited by Curmudgeon; Jan 10th, 2003 at 12:13:02.

  20. #80
    Originally posted by lilnymph
    good counter argument. so heres my counter counter argument. If I had GA MK4, could I swap it for a full set of ql 200 CDS, so I could experiment with that?
    Sure, as long as you hadn't uploaded the nanocrystal, you might find someone willing to make that trade.

Page 4 of 8 FirstFirst 12345678 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •