Discussion: Aimshot & Sneak Attack modifications. Post your thoughts

[agentgimpy]

Originally posted by Odian102
AgentGimpy

the following is a good point:
"With the 40% cap even a reduced AS should still hit the cap, so what would be the difference? "

Well, this post started out as a discusion. what your opinion. I would like to here it. From what I can tell its raise the 40% cap on hidden AS. I think that is a good idea. It should be a heavy hit. What is your view on the damage cap on a non-hidden AS. If we are going to raise the bar on a hidden AS. then we should lower the bar on a non-hidden AS.

No, then you would have to lower the bar on ALL non-hidden specials, to be fair. I get what your suggesting, it's just that if someone didn't want to play the Agent(or whatever AS class) in the slow, deliberate sniper way, then this lowering of the other cap would be un-fair to them. We all know that when a change is made that it seems everyone(those posting) wants, up pops the other half of the folks that are unhappy with the new changes, seems they were happy enough not to be visiting the boards, and un-aware there was a new change comming.

Also, why should a non-hidden FA/burst/fling be any different from a non-hidden aimed shot, other than the fact that the AS had a higher cap? Problem here is some AS guns have fling as a special as well, so after you hit your 70% aimed you would still have a 40% special left on your bar anyhow, hence my point that you would have to lower all other specials.(or at least those that reside on guns with AS)

Before 12.6 the one shot kill existed, it was alot of fun while it lasted, you pulled the trigger and in the distance saw the other players arms flail in the air as they dropped to the ground. Mind you although this only happened once in every 10 attempts it was no fun for the target, these are real people with a set amount of game play time on their hands, so to be sent to reclaim in that fashion made for un-happy customers. That nerf was justified.

However, there are risks in this game, people should be aware of that, just because the risk comes from a player controled character should make no difference. You don't take your lvl30 toon for a run around Mort....you know you'll die, yet people will go into a PvP area for a mission and will complain about getting killed by another player, even thought there are red con Mobs all araound in that zone.

My point from the last 2 paragraphs...?..

There should be snipers on the battle field. People should be caucious, and mindfull that they are in danger of getting hit really hard, and suddenly. It should be as an accepted fact as sandworms were to me while hunting scooplets, suddenly they are there....suddenly I am dead.

Once again any AS changes for PvP(because this IS just about PvP..right?) should include the following;

1. AS guns should have a concealment requirement on them, a hefty one, perhaps even a Sense rquirement too, along with the usual rifle and AS reqs.

2. Hidden AS should have a the highest damage cap in the game (60-70%). and perhaps a timer on how long you need to be in sneak before you can pull it off..for PvP only. Agents are in need of a role in NW's.


I know my mind has wandered on this, but many of these issues are very much connected to each other.

[______________Hodaka]

Originally posted by AgentGimpy

Once again any AS changes for PvP(because this IS just about PvP..right?) should include the following;

1. AS guns should have a concealment requirement on them, a hefty one, perhaps even a Sense rquirement too, along with the usual rifle and AS reqs.

2. Hidden AS should have a the highest damage cap in the game (60-70%). and perhaps a timer on how long you need to be in sneak before you can pull it off..for PvP only. Agents are in need of a role in NW's.


I know my mind has wandered on this, but many of these issues are very much connected to each other.

I agree with number 1, only in that it would keep Agents kings of AS unless people put IP into both concealment and AS. Less people would be doing it. However, I believe the concealment shouldn't be a requirement for shooting the rifle normally, only for equipping it. Concealment should only IMHO add a bonus to AS and raise the dmg cap when used in PVP (i.e. your #2 is similar to what I was saying)..

[agentgimpy]

Originally posted by Hodaka


I agree with number 1, only in that it would keep Agents kings of AS unless people put IP into both concealment and AS. Less people would be doing it. However, I believe the concealment shouldn't be a requirement for shooting the rifle normally, only for equipping it. Concealment should only IMHO add a bonus to AS and raise the dmg cap when used in PVP (i.e. your #2 is similar to what I was saying)..

Absolutly, I read your previous post after I posted mine, and thought to myself. "why did I bother posting at all?" You made it far more clear than I did. I dont want to see class only weapons, if I want to raise dark blue skills to use a weapon that should be doable, no matter what my porffesion or weapon of choice.

Concealment as a multiplier, not a requirement for AS is the best idea to come out of this thread. If you want good damage out of your aimed shot, raise your concealment. Of course, you should have a bsae amount of concealment to equipe the rifle.

[______________Hodaka]

hehe, that's ok.. while you were posting yours, I was continuing to tumble out thoughts and edit my post.. I finally decided I'd just better quit while the post was still coherent

[_____________Makarov]

Well if we was 100% sure that FC would not mess something when they would change AS then conceal as damage modifier for AS sounds like great idea. That could be so called Concealed AS. Wich Agents could use as starter. And it would be only fair to raise its max damage cap to 60%.
But then unconcealed AS would be needed to be tunned down to umm i dont know maybe something like 75% to do max possible non crit damage and 25% to do a crit? That way AS would still be supperior to fling shot but not near as deadly as true concealed AS.

Ohh well flame away if needed.

[______________Insida]

The problem I see with AS its that its used by proffession that are supposed to have a ****y attack rating and suck at weapon like doctor, Trader, NT, Crat and Engi. So with weapon who use AS, they can do some good damage...

[___________Reaperman]

Funcom had better not DARE make aimshot conceal related in pvp , or theres going to be some unhappy techtronica using soldiers out ther ^^ .

[Morthoseth]

Originally posted by AgentGimpy


Absolutly, I read your previous post after I posted mine, and thought to myself. "why did I bother posting at all?" You made it far more clear than I did. I dont want to see class only weapons, if I want to raise dark blue skills to use a weapon that should be doable, no matter what my porffesion or weapon of choice.

Concealment as a multiplier, not a requirement for AS is the best idea to come out of this thread. If you want good damage out of your aimed shot, raise your concealment. Of course, you should have a bsae amount of concealment to equipe the rifle.

Okay, time for me to actually address this.

I agree whole heartedly, conceal as a modifer for AS's in PvM AND
PvP. Most anyone can get off an AS in PvM without conceal, same
apply to PvP. If, somehow, your conceal skill acted like a modifer
and added to your aimedshot *IF CONCEALED*, then that
sounds like the best route to me, as well. Not lessen AS damage,
but increase it's output with high conceal, therefore making
Agents masters of it since they have higher conceal, but still have
it accessable to the rest of the community. THAT is the best idea, yet.

However, no conceal = no special cap damage over 40%.

But, then you have the modifer number to consider. Agents can
get twice the conceal than what they have of AS, easily. This is
because rifle overtakes AS in implanting, sadly, and conceal is
much more buffable. Definitely not a call to nerf conceal as 1/2
effective in PvP, just have the modifer "per point of skill" half of
what it is for aimedshot. At lv120, I have 1180-ish buffed RoT2
conceal and only 630 Aimedshot, so this modifer seems correct.

But, not increasing the cap of it on all weapons. If this were the
case, anyone with a weapon involving AS could, at higher levels,
invest in conceal and have a potential AS alpha volley of, say
60%, and then polish it off with a fling or burst crit. I find it,
though inviting an agent, unbalancing. Therefore, only rifles and
weapons with AS as it's lone special should make use of this
implementation. If you want to finish with a burst/fling/FA, switch
weapons. I also approve of the conceal requirement on new guns
with AS as it's lone special. If it becomes a factor in AS damage, it
seems appropriate to me to have this added to all new weapons.

On thing that I think should be considered, *but thoroughly
tested*, is having a setup similar to NT's nano programs, where
certain weapons have AS resist modifers, based on perception.
Think of your aimedshot and conceal modifers being Matter
Creation and perception being the equivalent of nano resist.

Lower QL guns will only see a 75% perception resist (For
concealed AS's ONLY, not regular.) while the Ql200's will have
much higher ones like 150-175%, making it truly an agents
weapon to fully maximize it's potential, damage wise. Whataya think?

BTW, I like how this post has actually turned into a discussion and not an argument. =)

[Morthoseth]

Originally posted by Reaperman
Funcom had better not DARE make aimshot conceal related in pvp , or theres going to be some unhappy techtronica using soldiers out ther ^^ .

Fine and dandy, but look at the suggestions above. If agents and
high concealment players have AS as their one skill, it should be
nearly as effective as having a deadly multi-special volley. The
reason I say this is, it's ONE special, but supposed to be deadlier
than any of the others. However, in PvP, it's taken down to their
level. In the strategy guide, it's skill that "inflicts extra damage
when concealed", a direct quote that should be held to it's words.

And, note, this is only on single special guns, as far as I see it.

I'm not for linking the two,(Conceal and aimedshot) personally,
now that the current suggestion has been made. I can't say I
have always thought this, but it's obvious now that there's better
ideas on the "community brainstorm drawing board", so no worries, friend.

[______________Jennii]

My 2 cents 1 more time.

1) DO NOT MAKE AS compariable to a fling shot in pvp if your not sneaking. Agents with rifles are gimp enough.
2) Make it so I can use Aimed Shot vs mobs without having to sneak.
3) Put a concealement requirement if your that worried about it... After having real high conceal, theres no way I would dump that skill anyway.
4) Do Not Change the damage done by an AS in PVP or PVM, except maybe give us the chance to pull off a 10k AS in pvp.
5) 10k AS in pvp. That's right. there are way to many classes that Agents have a hard time against. A well placed Sniper bullet should have a small chance to insta kill. Before you open your mouth.... think about it.... it's a sniper rifle, not a BB gun. Your supposed to be able to do rude damage with one.