MP Wishlist: Summoned Armor

[Wizz]

I have been going off-topic on the MP community questions, so I'll repost here the discussion so far... which isn't that far ideas, raw numbers, modifications, and right out flaming of much too stupid things I can say (which happens a lot) are in order.

As X put it, the best we define a nano, the best he and Psi will be able to present and defend the idea(s) to the community, and hopefully have it/them implemented.

Follow this link for an quick update on how the discussion on the Creation Armor started.

[zophee]

I think best way to enable the armor to all breeds (better all MPs no matter what breed) is to have the armor itself to have the same requirements as the nano you use to create this piece of armor.
You can cast it -> you can wear it.

For it's stats I would love a kind of leveling ability. In it's siplest form it could depend on your level raised by a factor depending on how much you meet the requirents of the nano or even give it min QL and add some QLs your level is above the min QL of the armor.

btw. It should be Nodrop or Profession specific.

[Wizz]

As to the MP armour, I think there are 3 options:
1) each breed has its own MP armour, with same relevant requirements, same effective AC's and bonuses.
2) Put level caps on the armour, with low requirements.
3) Extension of 2), make it upgradeable like the agents' mask, and place the requirements TS/MC.

I like the idea of option 3, maybe with some quests thrown in at each cap to upgrade it. Realistically I think oprion 1 is the choice.

1- Seems unlikely to me to ever happen. Simpler solutions seem more likely.

2- I don't like level caps and can very well do without any. Now I suppose this could be some reason why to have reqs easier to reach for atrox.

3- That's an excellent idea, but might be harder to implement on summoned objects than on solid ones. Have a set amount of HP/nano (as opposed to money for living cyber armor) to upgrade and make it upgradable only to your base+implants statistics. Now the problem is it's a summoned object. This means that the pieces of armor would each last say 1 or 2 hours before they vanish, and you'd either have to go through all your upgrades again or be able to directly upgrade the nano itself so that it follows your level.

I still think that as it is an armor, and although it is summoned you should have ability requirements on it anyway.
It's an armor we're talking about after all, and not putting any ability requirements could be imbalancing towards other professions. Let's face things: Mocham's allow us to get our nanoskills sky high, so they are not a problem. The effect would be that say a level 120ish MP might be able to equip (or upgrade to) over level 200 when people from other professions may only be able to equip something up to 160ish or so.
This could give MPs an advantage of over 40 QLs of armor. Sure that would not make us immortal, but people hitting only for minimum damage over and over would ask for a nerf, and we certainly don't want that.

[Xtremtech]

Grid Armour has pure Nanoskill requirements for equipping - so should MP armour. Essentially, the ease of implementation would be the greatest if the armour were as alike to grid armour as possible.

My thoughts:

The armour should be a single piece armour like Grid Armour is - though a different design and colour would of course make sense.

The nano should come in a series of 4 QLs similar to the Grid Armour QL78, QL111, QL142, QL198 or thereabouts - but it would be nice if it were not quite as rare...

The nano should use: MM MC and TS (which is the same as Grid Armour) though at considerably higher levels of course.

The Armour should last as long as Grid Armour

The big question for the MP Creation Armour would be... what stats should it have? Lets focus first on non-AC stats... what would we like as MPs?

• - NCU
  - MaxHealth
  - NanoDelta
  - NanoC-Init

would probably be the highest on the list.

So if these thoughts are accepted - we'd need to decide levels for each of the 4 QLs for:

• 1) What MM, MC and TS should be needed to cast each?
  What MM MC and TS should be needed to equip each? (Grid armour uses identical cast/equip reqs)
  2) What AC should each give?
  3) What type of buffs should each QL give?
  4) What level of buff should each QL give?

We should also keep in mind that every new nano in the game will get level restrictions - so maybe it's worth thinking what they should be....

How does that sound as a starter?

X

[______________Hayake]

better keep in mind that you probably don't want it to be TOO good as then it will have the same droprate as GA too

[Xtremtech]

Lol yup Hayake..... what would you suggest?

X

[zophee]

Non Armor Effects:
NCU would be great for MPs, but I have no (good) idea why cast armor can increase NCU logically if we follow the meta like creation line that we create it out of our body ....

Nano Init is a great idea since we expose ourselfs in another way to the nano-cloud which could enable us to communicate with nanobots more effectively resulting in faster execution times ...
A full armor set (vote for single piece too) could do 100 nano init at 200 and 40 at 80.

I see potential too in relation between nano init and NCU, perhaps the armor could decrease ncu and replace a recompiler so you could wear it along with 6 NCUs gaining perhaps half the effect of the 6th NCU.

more amor like effects:
AC wise it should be not too powerful but I would add an effect that splits damage to go 80% on HP and 20% on nano which would be great for nanomages, but I fear Atrox MPs would suffer from it.
If you add average AC with the combination of HP and Nanopool this would mag good armor along with a nich MP setting of doing things non-direct ways.

[Silinary]

One thing to note with grid armor as wizz indeed mentioned, having nano skill requirements will mean any and all meta's can indeed wear. We buff our nano as high as needed with no problem once you got the lvls. Fixers and grid armor are different. All their nano skills are dark blue, And the MC requirement on grid armor adds insult to the fixers. No other nanos except the ammo, weapons, and armor bootleg lines use creation, and 9 out of 10 fixers dont use that as its totally random, takes money from them, and is generally low QL due to the dark blue nanos and not able to cast armor their lvl. So essentially, MC is only used on Grid armor, and while it is usefull, nto all fixers deem it worth the IP investment when they are already in an IP crunch.

MP are different in that respect. IF you want it like grid armor, it would require similar situation. If its only a reduced version that all mp's will be able to use np, then carry on, but it must be considered

[Xtremtech]

Interesting ideas there Darkzone:

1) If we made the NanoC-Init buff approximately equal to a recompiler of the same QL then it would allow us an extra NCU in our deck and thus increase our available NCU space. For those not using a recompiler, the large NanoC-Init buff would probably be very handy indeed. Excellent idea.

2) Reasonable AC but transfer a portion of the damage to the nanopool. This is a very interesting idea. The armour draws nano from you in order to do the work of shielding you from harm...

It would certainly make the nanomage's Nanopool a more limiting factor and help out the nanomage breed a little in terms of being MP. At the same time - it would also mean that the creation weapons with Max Nanopool buffs would suddenly become considerbly more useful as this would essentially be a health buff then.

Here's a question: would you expect a nanocost reduction to also reduce the nano-reduction part of the damage? So if I were hit for 100 damage - your formula would make that 80 HP and 20 NP lost... but if I had a 25% nanocost reduction buff running - would that make it 80HP and 15 NP?

Of course you would then have to completely drop the NanoDelta and the HP buff from the armour - since the nanodelta would then act as a HoT and the HP buff would be unfair since together with a max NanoPool buff from a creation weapon we'd already be getting an effective 'helath' buff.

My immediate response to this is that this one change alone could do the following:

1) Enhance the nanobreed MP
2) Make creation Weapons and shields more effective without changing their stats at all (which can be difficult to get FC to implement)
3) provide a much needed defensive capability
4) give the MP something truly unique and class defining.

I really like the idea. What does everybody else think?

X

[Xtremtech]

Regarding the requirements: I only suggest that our armour use the same skills as the grid armour - not the same levels of skill. The MP armour would have to be pitched at much higher requirements - but still MM MC and TS.

Also - all new nanos in the game are getting a level requirement now whether we like it or not. So there will be a level requirement on these nanos too.

X

[Xtremtech]

My mind is still whirring about that idea of making the armour transfer a portion of the damage to nanopool .... it's really an excellent idea.

It occurs to me too that trader's Land Nano line would then be equivalent to giving an MP an HP buff (while losing some of their max nano too of course...).

X

[Alpherah]

Lend nano isnt like a heal heals hit points.
Lend nano takes the ammount of nano stated AWAY from the trader permanantly for the duration of the formula.
So if i have 4000 max nano, but have used it all, and a trader uses lend nano:400, My nano pool will go from 4000 max to 4400 max, and i will go from 0 nano available to 400. But the trader will loose 400 nano from his max, untill the formula wears off.. who in their right minds will want to do that.

[Xtremtech]

Yup I edited it.

I dunno... how often do traders run out of nano? How often would an MP run out of nano... It's a balance I guess. A small one wouldn't hurt that much - particularly since traders can restock their nano more easily during battle than we can...

Just a thought. Not saying it would necessarily happen.

X

[Toxinator]

/me thinks of GA...

/me looks at how much $ he has...

/me says oh dear god i better start saving.

[_____________kinbari]

this is a great idea... ive always liked the idea of being able to summon an item but kind of outgrew the weapons... id like to offer my opinion on some of the ideas ive read here...

Levelling Armor:
i like the idea of the summoned armor being a levellable item, like the agent "terrorist mask" or the living armor. but if its a summoned item it obviously cannot be permanent... so i was thinking maybe if once we summoned it, it could appear in our inventory at the same level the summoner is... and you could just upgrade it once you summon it. this way you wouldnt have to right click on the thing 150 times every 2 hours. also since its not permanent, you wouldnt be able to buff yourself into an overly high set/piece of the armor (unless you had access to all the buffs needed every couple of hours), and maybe make it something like the morphing memory... where you can upgrade it all you want so long as you have the skill needed to actually wear it.

Skill Bonuses:
Added NCU would be nice, extra NCU is always nice. Extra nano would be good i guess, not really needed so much as say... MAX LIFE INCREASED!!! that would be great. i also think diverting damage to nano pool would be an awesome bonus... however it would have to be only a percentage of the damage taken, or else the NT's Humidity Extractors would be the new "MP HoT that MPs cant cast". <-gonna have that trademarked if it happens. =) nano skill buffs would be pretty useless... buf MAX LIFE INCREASED would be GREAT!! nanodelta would also be welcomed... a nice little barely noticeable supplement to the divert damage from health to nano.

Skill Requirements:
I say Matter Creation and Time & Space to summon it... i also say the only _ability_ needed to wear it should be INT. maybe let it take some other skills that _everyone_ raises... like comp lit. the requirements on it should be something thats MP specific and not just Breed specific... so no certain breed will have better armor than another breed just because their abilities are green. Matter Met however... bleh... noone(that i know) really uses matter met because all its good for is mez pets... and theyre busted all to hell... i mean almost everyone has 480 (the req for QW) but i dont think i know anyone with more than that... i just think the armor would have to be really good to get people to invest that much ip into a fairly useless skill... even if it is green.

all in all i think this would be a great idea... summoning armor would be a very kool thing... so long as it looks good. keep up the great ideas everyone... hopefully some of these will be implemented and the MP will be a more exciting and fun class.

[Xtremtech]

and maybe make it something like the morphing memory... where you can upgrade it all you want so long as you have the skill needed to actually wear it.

I thought of this: make it 7 nanos (one per armour piece) and then make it appear at the level of the caster at casting time dependent upon skill. It was discussed in the other thread that spawned this one. The difficulty is that we'd be making another set of nanos that we got very early in the game and leaving nothing new in terms of content/things to find at the high levels (a recurring call on the boards).

By making it whole suit and giving it 4 different QLs we spread the joy of finding new nanos across the whole life of the MP.

Skill bonusses: I'll probably split the wishlist item here to include the two options:

1) Normal Buffs: NCU, Max Health, NanoC Init, Nano-Delta

2) The 'new' idea: NanoC-Init (enough to replace a recompiler) and %age damage re-reouted to nano-pool (which essentially gives us max-health, max health buffs from creations, NT hot etc)

What I'd like to hear some more opinions on is this:

With the new idea of re-routing damage to nano-pool would we want our nanocost reducers to act on the amount that would have been taken off the nano pool?

So let's say I was hit for 100 damage and my armour splits it 80% HP 20% nanopool.

80 damage would be done to HP
20 damage would be done to Nanopool

but if I had 25% nanocost reduction running would it be

80 damage to my HP
15 damage to my nanopool

???

Or should the nanopool part of the damage be immune to nanocost reducers?

I say Matter Creation and Time & Space to summon it... i also say the only _ability_ needed to wear it should be INT.

All of our creations (and all fo the fixer summons) use three skills to cast them. We need to keep that up. If we'd made it levelling armour (where we have a nano for each piece and it's stats are set at casting time) I'd agree with the Int requirement. But as it stands trying to emulate the grid armour fairly closely will make it much easier for the devs to implement and the requirements should be somewhat similar anyway.

There'll be a reason that the Designers made grid armour work the way it does. If we go against those reasons - we just reduce the chances fo success I fear. Either way - I'll include a statement that if an ability is required to wear it, it should be Int.

X

[Xtremtech]

How's about this:

I've modelled the NanoC-Init/QL curve for the recompilers and reproduced that for the NanoC-Init/QL of the armour.

• Special New Benefits
  Metaphysical Armour MKI (QL 78) Bonusses:
  
  NanoC-Init: 80
  Damage to Nanopool: 5%
  Nanoresist: 50
  
  Metaphysical Armour MKII (QL 111) Bonusses:
  
  NanoC-Init: 155
  Damage to Nanopool: 10%
  Nanoresist: 100
  
  
  Metaphysical Armour MKIII (QL 142) Bonusses:
  
  NanoC-Init: 225
  Damage to Nanopool: 15%
  Nanoresist: 200
  
  Metaphysical Armour MKIV (QL 198) Bonusses:
  
  NanoC-Init: 395
  Damage to Nanopool: 20%
  Nanoresist: 300

How does that sound? We'd ask for average AC in connection with this.

For the Normal benefits suggestion I'd estimate:

• Normal Style benefits
  Metaphysical Armour MKI (QL 78) Bonusses:
  
  Max Health: 100
  Nanoresist: 50
  NCU: 25
  NanoDelta:
  
  Metaphysical Armour MKII (QL 111) Bonusses:
  
  Max Health: 250
  Nanoresist: 100
  NCU: 20
  NanoDelta:
  
  Metaphysical Armour MKIII (QL 142) Bonusses:
  
  Max Health: 400
  Nanoresist: 200
  NCU: 40
  NanoDelta:
  
  Metaphysical Armour MKIV (QL 198) Bonusses:
  
  Max Health: 600
  Nanoresist: 300
  NCU: 60
  NanoDelta:

We'd ask for excellent AC with this style armour. I'm just not at all sure about the NanoDelta.... what would be reasonable do you think?

X

[zophee]

The stats for the armor are fine with me. Regarding to Nanoresist and Nanodelta I have no clue what makes sense. I did'nt up nanoresist since it was most time I played non functional ). For nanodelta I use atm a 175 faded cluster which does something around 15 (if I remmeber right - will check this) but find I cannot really notice any improvement.

HP-Nano transfer:
I'm not sure weather reducers should kick in or not. It will depend on how much percent get transfered. We could have higher percentage along with reducers, but I feel having reducers kick in could make others feel we're overpowerd ....
For your suggested values I would be fine even without reducers.

What I forgot too - if nanopool is empty the 'split' damage should go to HP instead since the shieldung ability of the armor runs out of power. I dislike the Idea to die because of an empty nano pool.

[Xtremtech]

Good thought re what happens when nanopool is empty.

I've guesstimated the Nano Delta based on a QL175 imp cluster adding 15. Which would make the normal stat suggestion something like:

• Normal Style benefits
  Metaphysical Armour MKI (QL 78) Bonusses:
  
  Max Health: 100
  Nanoresist: 50
  NCU: 25
  NanoDelta: 6
  
  Metaphysical Armour MKI (QL 111) Bonusses:
  
  Max Health: 250
  Nanoresist: 100
  NCU: 20
  NanoDelta: 9
  
  Metaphysical Armour MKI (QL 142) Bonusses:
  
  Max Health: 400
  Nanoresist: 200
  NCU: 40
  NanoDelta: 13
  
  Metaphysical Armour MKI (QL 198) Bonusses:
  
  Max Health: 600
  Nanoresist: 300
  NCU: 60
  NanoDelta: 18

I'm also thinking that the nanocost reduction shouldn't affect the %age drop from damage. It would be too much.

X

[Wizz]

I agree that if possible Nanoreducer shouldn't affect the damage to nanopool.

Both for ours and Fixers sake I strongly feel that this should be as far away (well, it already is ) from a GA as possible.
I'd live with it naturally if the developpers can't do otherwise than design a full body armor (whether because of timeline or technical reasons).
Now, for this reasons I would prefer to see different pieces of armor. If possible both sleeves should be summoned at once.

Counting it all I'm coming up with 8 nanos. This includes a cloak. Being lost for whatever includes numbers I'm totally incapable of estimating if the given bonusses are good or not, but I guess they are.

However the setting is done in the end I'm of the opinion that either the body armor or the cloak is given first and the other last as they are the armor parts giving the most AC and benefits.

Right, trying a first attempt at the QL 200 ACs for the Body Armor. WARNING: I'm not saying I'm bad with numbers just so. Ask my math teachers about me to see him laugh (doubt the guy even knows what the word means though...)
In other terms this very well could be way too high or too low for the QL or to be something worth hunting bosses for (or spend a trillion creds, or camp terms for 10 hours+...) so don't hesitate to correct if you think I'm totally wrong, I probably am.

QL 200 Creation Body Armor:

Melee AC 1200
Projectile AC 1200
Energy AC 1000
Chem 1100
Rad 700
Fire 1100
Cold 1000
Poison 900

This is subject to modification.

To keep the "Creation Touch" I think that TS should represent 80% of the armors AC, as it does for weapons attack rating.