You guys gonna finish the ENF weapons revamp?

[Thyrra]

Originally posted by Sandrix
Sorry Kiryat, I've heard probly 20 people both on the forums and in game say there was a manex nerf on test. I just assumed it was, if Nizno says no nerf I believe em. No reason to get bent out of shape

like many other rumors, this one can be debunked by looking at the DB. when a change to the DB is made on test, it is up on the jayde's and auno's site in a very short time.

---

re: uber enf weapons

Originally posted by blackmane
Just a note about the future: QB/EQB/PR are meant to be slow weapons, and not able to get anywhere near 1/1. Sometime in the future (not the near future, however), these weapons will get some limitations placed on them as to how fast they can get.

If you are planning on building your character about being able to get these weapons anywhere near 1/1, don't. They will still be excellent weapons, but not as obscenely powerful as they get at 1/1.

blackmane is the designer who made the EQB because the old QB wasn't good enough.

this was posted in this thread:
Anarchy Online Bulletin Board > Professions > Enforcer > QB / EQB / P-rod / Staff-Pipe test (finally)

[______________NoHope]

Originally posted by Meetloaf
It was awful swell of you guys to put in new Enforcer weapons. We all looked forward to it for many moons.

Is there any chance you can put in the rest of them? At present, the salesman only sells up to QL 135 and I have yet to see any of the new stuff drop in a mission or off a boss mob.

Hoping you don't leave this job half-done for another 6 months,

Meetloaf

Remove the "enf-only" on those weapons, then I will support that they drop higher ql.

[secondkenlon]

Well, Sandrix, now that a DEV has said that they will not allow the QB to remain as powerful as it is, do you still think it should remain the benchmark for how powerful enforcer weapons should be?


*gloat*


(Yes, I know, it's not nice. But I don't care. Nyah.)

[Thyrra]

only the 2hb and 2he weapons are enf only. the 1hb and 1he can be used by anyone and can generally do better damage than the 2 handed weapons.

---

gloat that FC is caving in to nerf whining or that FC f'ed up to begin with? what wonderful things to gloat about.

[secondkenlon]

Nah, just gloating that for once, I was right. I tend to never be in sync with what game companies put into their games. (Don't like level limits, don't like profession restricted items, don't like self only buff lines, don't like rare items being stupidly powerful, etc.)


I'm not against there being more weapons in the game, just against weapons that speed the mudflation that is gonna wreck this game (just like all MMORPG's).

If you were to up the level of the Tsunayoshi weapons in the game to about 165, that would be fine, as then they would be roughly equal to the QL 200 weapons currently in use. (Look! Diversity!) Though the Dai-Katana line should go up to 200, as they are in line with other 2he weapons already. (Maybe they had a different designer in charge of those. . .or maybe they'd expended their store of munchkinism on the QB/EQB. *shrug*)

[Sallust]

Its simply incredible how selfish some people are.

Do you think FC has unlimited programming staff?

Which do you think is more important to ask for? -

Fixing pet pathing or giving more weapons for a top rank profession?

Is it more important to have programmers take the time to make new weapons, or make kamikaze bots and mez pets that work?

I only picked pet pathing as an obvious example (but it sounds like some enforcers here might disagree).

You want weapon choice? Engis & MPs want weapons that can hit, which is more important?

Someone earlier said that enforcers would support improvement for the other down-and-out professions. So where is that support? Looks like more to those who have it and less to those who don't is the enforcer philosophy in this thread.

Adventurers I can kind of sympathize with (my other main character is a melee advent), but they're still much better off than several professions and should wait (but not too long, because unlike enforcers they're hurting in PvP).

Do you realize that if you beg for it at this point and get what you want that FC (who loves PvP they can't make work) will nerf it when they realise you were overpowered and your damage so that it sucks. Do you want to be the next MAs? Do you want insta-death-to-QB-wielding-enforcer nanos given out to the NTs?

Whats truly sickening though is FC saying that you're going to get them, when they've made absolutely no mention of fixing any of the MP's toolset, not creation weapons (ahem, weapon choice?), not mez pets, not our pets, not jack squat. After a year of FC doing this is why I'm leaving the game and basicly all the other pet profession players as well.

Do you honestly believe that your weapon choice is such a priority that it should be in the next patch?

[Wrangeline]

/prostrate

[Isisnorfret]

Sallust, this has been discussed before. This would be such a simple implementation that it would not disrupt the order of priority to fix it tomorrow. The weapons are already implemented, just asking for a QL change. Since this would not interfere with the work being done to other professions, I disagree that those other fixes need to be done first.

Do you honestly believe that your weapon choice is such a priority that it should be in the next patch?

Yes, I do. Priority is relative to ease of implementation.

Kenlon, the nerf that is coming is only going to make the Queen Blade less powerful while the Flurry of Blows is being used. Without using a flurry it is still the superior choice. As you know they don't want the weapon to get down to near 1/1 speeds, but swinging every 4 seconds it still does much better than anything I see available to me. If they did put Daitos in to QL 180 then I would consider sticking with them.

Just so you know, I have absolutely no problem with them adjusting the QB/EQB. I don't see it so much as a nerf, but these weapons are meant to be slow, and when swung at very fast speeds it had an unbalancing effect. These weapons will still be fantastic at slower speeds.

Uglyy, I would have no qualms about them dropping the Enf requirements on the two handed weapons. I don't think they'd be great choices for other prof's but I'm all for removing profession restrictions.

[secondkenlon]

Uhm, Sandrix? They didn't say how the queen blade would be changed. Claiming that it will only be while FoB is active is a bit premature.
My su****ion is that they will simply increase the attack and recharge speed on the QB.

[Sallust]

Originally posted by Sandrix
Sallust, this has been discussed before. This would be such a simple implementation that it would not disrupt the order of priority to fix it tomorrow. The weapons are already implemented, just asking for a QL change. Since this would not interfere with the work being done to other professions, I disagree that those other fixes need to be done first.

Go to the Engi, MP, and Crat forums. You'll find "ease of implementation" in many of the fixes there. Some things could probably be fixed with one or two lines of code... and they haven't been in the last year.

Providing "weapon choice" to some professions has been more important than fixing some of the others.

Yes, I do. Priority is relative to ease of implementation.

Nice, very nice. So no matter what my level of need, I should get prioritized below "simple changes" no matter what.

I stand by my remark on how selfish the enforcers are. Yeah, support other professions. LOL

[______________Sredni]

Gotta love it when people go out of their way to deny others luvin just cause they feel they deserve it more.

And as for the e/q-blade, we've already had 1 nerf that hit 3 proffs because of it (the inits beyond 1200 nerf), and now the q-blade itself is gonna get nerfed? WTF! unnerf the inits if yer gonna **** over the q-blade anyways.

[Sallust]

ROFL!!!

and NOW Enforcers need more loving than pet professions. LOL.
Wow, you poor enforcer gimps must REALLY suck then. "Enforcer is the nerfest prof!". Must really suck always being wanted in a team and being able always beat 3/4 of professions.

Who needs nerfs when they've given us bugs with every patch that they refuse to even acknowledge let alone fix.

As for the nerfs... you're doing it to yourself because you're getting what you want when few of the other professions can keep up with you. Of course they're nerfing YOU, what have i got left that they can really nerf? I hate nerfs, but you've brought this upon yourselves.

Gotta love it when people deny your right to get fixed because they need new weapons because there are still a couple professions that can outperform them sometimes.

[Alpherah]

Sallust, they are enforcers.. some are worse then the NT's ever were, im afraid we just have to deal with it.

Sandrix, where did you read about this change to the QB/EQB.. i was aware that these weapons were designed personally by one member of the FC development team with the new initiative change implimented in the design (had it not been thought about, we could be seeing the double the damage it does now).
That said it is very unlikley the QB/EQB will see a nerf, the init nerf for initiatives over 1200 already stopped the QB/EQB from swinging at a speed of 1/1.. which nerfed other professions as well, all because FC implimented a Unbalencing weapon, when you think about the ammount of hp and defensive nanos currently available to the majority of the professions, the QB/EQB is very much so over powered.

The only fix i can see thats viable, so not to screw the enforcers tanking capabilities in pvm, while toning down the QB/EQB damage in pvp would be to make AC effect min damage as well as max, so 4000 ac would drop the QB's min damage and max damage by 400 every swing.. making it much less imbaleced.

Such a change however would yet again, be a nerf to many other professions, mine included. The metaphysicist as it is already does minimal damage, such a change would result in pets hitting for 0 (average around 300 a hit -400 damage from 4k melee ac =0 damage done).. so another problem arises.. all from this damn Queen Blade.

[secondkenlon]

QB / EQB / P-rod / Staff-Pipe test (finally).

Read that.
Read what blackmane said.
Read about enforcers who can get 2400 init and swing the QB at nearly 1/1, even with the change to init beyond 1200.


Then comment on the "unlikely" nature of changes to the QB.

[_______________Nieth]

waaay back there someone said teh slayer crystal claw is as good as an EQB
to u i say... u r an ass monkey
it's NOWHERE near as good, even if it did chem damage it would not hit as hard
it may be the best piercing wep, but that isn't saying much
it's on par with *most* normally used weps for 1hb and 2hb
but not on par with any of the high end high powered weps like the punishment rod, QB even, it just doesn't compare
if there was a decent offhand wep to go with it that did anything near its damage it might start to come close, but as it stands it's just a less gimped kiddy, and a placeholder for teh punishment rod

[Isisnorfret]

Sallust, you should try reading a thread before interjecting with your assinine assumptions. Pretty sad that in order to make all of your points you've had to misrepresent what the other side of this argument has been saying.

ROFL!!!

and NOW Enforcers need more loving than pet professions. LOL.
Wow, you poor enforcer gimps must REALLY suck then. "Enforcer is the nerfest prof!". Must really suck always being wanted in a team and being able always beat 3/4 of professions.

Noone has said we need these weapons. We want them, in order to have choice about how we develop our chars. In order to not have to choose to use a Queen Blade or do inferior damage.

The "Enforcer are the nerfest profession" thread has nothing to do with this one. If you want to talk about that thread, do so.. in that thread.

Who needs nerfs when they've given us bugs with every patch that they refuse to even acknowledge let alone fix.

As for the nerfs... you're doing it to yourself because you're getting what you want when few of the other professions can keep up with you. Of course they're nerfing YOU, what have i got left that they can really nerf? I hate nerfs, but you've brought this upon yourselves.

Did we really get what we wanted? What we wanted was buffs for all melee weapons (check) and viable weapons in all categories (check). (Enforcer) "Er hrm, these weapons only go up to QL 135 FC? What's up?" (FC) "Hmmm must be a bug" (2 days later) "We may add those weapons at a later date."

The nerf would not be to Enforcers it would be to the QB/EQB, which needs it.

Gotta love it when people deny your right to get fixed because they need new weapons because there are still a couple professions that can outperform them sometimes.

Explain to me how adding these weapons would deny you anything. The entire basis for your argument is that spending 2 hours to add these weapons would somehow take something from you. Justify, else all the rest of your argument comes crumbling down with it.

And point out where I said I want these weapons because I'm not powerful enough. Otherwise, STFU for a few minutes and read whats really being discussed. Maybe you could even add something to the conversation, rather than making blithe comments. Its easy to insult someone, harder to get them to see things your way.

Its not a question of doing this OR doing something else. Its a question of if this will be done, and should it be done. I'm tired of having to repeat myself because of people being either too incompetent or too lazy to read. Beginning to lose patience.

Nice, very nice. So no matter what my level of need, I should get prioritized below "simple changes" no matter what.

I stand by my remark on how selfish the enforcers are. Yeah, support other professions. LOL

There are two sides to this. One side is saying "We have been asking for weapon diversity for over a year and now you've put all these nifty new weapons in but they're not high enough QL to really be valid in the high end game, mind finishing putting all of them in?"

The other side is saying "No, do not put these weapons in because we have a misconception that it will somehow delay fixes to our professions."

Providing "weapon choice" to some professions has been more important than fixing some of the others.

Uh, sorry, I've never said this or even suggested it in any way. Nice little straw man you created, but... miss.

Go to the Engi, MP, and Crat forums. You'll find "ease of implementation" in many of the fixes there. Some things could probably be fixed with one or two lines of code... and they haven't been in the last year.

Go to any forums and find any instance where Enforcers have trolled and flamed another profession's suggestion for being improved based on the reasoning that they need improved more. FC Implements things in large patches which come once every month or so. Changing these weaps to drop off boss mobs would be part of a much larger patch, which included all the rest of the changes they made that month. There is plenty of room in there alongside all the other things they might do for other prof's to fit this tiny adjustment.

Use your imagination for a minute. Picture one programmer working laboriously on a fix for your profession. Picture another programmer in between projects devoting an afternoon to making higher QL Tsunayoshi weapons drop somewhere in game. GREAT SCOTT! A REVELATION! You have just realized that this doesn't have anything to do with fixes to your profession! Congratulations !!! (Yea, yea, I know, you probably still don't get it. So sue me, I'm an optimist.)

----------------------

Kenlon

Uhm, Sandrix? They didn't say how the queen blade would be changed. Claiming that it will only be while FoB is active is a bit premature.
My su****ion is that they will simply increase the attack and recharge speed on the QB.

What Blackmane said was very suggestive.

Sometime in the future (not the near future, however), these weapons will get some limitations placed on them as to how fast they can get.

Sounds to me like a hard cap on speed. That sort of thing would only be noticeable when one had extremely high inits. That sort of change would also leave the Queen Blade as still being the best choice by far, and still detracting from weapon diversity.

As I said however, adjusting the QB to stop the cookie cutter would not bother me. I've modified my stance somewhat to compensate for the planned QB adjustment. Instead of being adament on QL 200 I would rather see them up to QL 180.

You said you wouldn't mind seeing the new weapons up to QL 165, good. Let me tell you I would be downright giddy if I got my hands on a QL 165 Daito. I would rather see them closer to QL 180 however, so that I would be a bit less gimped for not choosing QB.

[Isisnorfret]

To be a bit more specific Kenlon, regarding

Uhm, Sandrix? They didn't say how the queen blade would be changed. Claiming that it will only be while FoB is active is a bit premature.
My su****ion is that they will simply increase the attack and recharge speed on the QB.

Consider Blackmane's wording

these weapons will get some limitations placed on them as to how fast they can get.

The limitation will be placed on the weapon. The use of the word limitation suggests to me that they are placing a restraint on it, rather than changing its stats.

Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but that's my answer.

[secondkenlon]

Personally, I hope they increase the attack/recharge, rather than in some way changing FoB. Those who spend most on Melee Init should get the most benefit from it.

[Sallust]

Originally posted by Sandrix
Sallust, you should try reading a thread before interjecting with your assinine assumptions.

Talking about idiotic assumptions... I did read the whole thread before I posted. Amazing that I even referred to various posts on other pages huh? So now I'm not only amazed at your utter selfishness, but your ignorance too.

Noone has said we need these weapons.

Q.E.D. - Professions that NEED something should come before those that want fluff. I do care how desperately a profession WANTS a pink bowtie if the players of another can't have basic fixes.

Fixes first, fluff later.

[quote]The "Enforcer are the nerfest profession" thread has nothing to do with this one. [/b]

Actually it does, it refers to a common attitude shared by some players. One you're representing well.

Did we really get what we wanted?

Wah, you still want something. Did the MPs get ANYTHING they asked for in the last year?

Explain to me how adding these weapons would deny you anything. The entire basis for your argument is that spending 2 hours to add these weapons would somehow take something from you.

yes, because in those 2 hours they should be applying basic fixes for pet professions that should have been in there a year ago. Basic fixes like changing a one simple stat line so a nano is worth something. Changing one line of effect to change the mez pet from non-functional to functional.

Heck, if they given anybody their weapon choice it should be the grenades for engineers who NEED those weapons... not want a couple more choices. Engineers don't really have any good choice right now, enforcers have several.

Yes, we're still talking about those same two hours.

The one concept you repeatedly fail to understand is:

Priorities.

You should get your weapon choices eventually, but its not a priority. Fixing those professions which are broken is.

How long of a fix do you think it would take to reset the crit nerf that hurt MAs? If they have any reasonable backups it should take less than the "two hours". Yet they haven't done it. So given that they don't have infinite time, which changes should they do first?

And point out where I said I want these weapons because I'm not powerful enough. Otherwise, STFU for a few minutes and read whats really being discussed.

Read what I said yourself fool, did I ever say that you shouldn't get the weapons because they'd overpower you? I said you shouldn't get them because you're overpowered and you DON'T HAVE THE NEED FOR IT.

Here's an analogy:

It takes longer to shop for groceries than for a single video game. If you've only got the money for groceries or a video game which do you do? Do you buy the items you need first or the items you want? Answer honestly and why (and no cop-outs).

There are two sides to this. One side is saying "We have been asking for weapon diversity for over a year and now you've put all these nifty new weapons in but they're not high enough QL to really be valid in the high end game, mind finishing putting all of them in?"

For the overly dense here, I'll repeat again:

We've been asking for fixes to the same problem for over a year, you want a different flavor "lollipop". Which should they complete first?

Use your imagination for a minute. Picture one programmer working laboriously on a fix for your profession. Picture another programmer in between projects devoting an afternoon to making higher QL Tsunayoshi weapons drop somewhere in game. GREAT SCOTT! A REVELATION! You have just realized that this doesn't have anything to do with fixes to your profession! Congratulations !!! (Yea, yea, I know, you probably still don't get it. So sue me, I'm an optimist.)

The one who doesn't get it is you. The pet profession fixes haven't come, if they've got two programmers THEY SHOULD BOTH BE WORKING ON FIXES. That second programmer shouldn't interrupt something vital (fixes) for something not vital. If he fails to get the important fix done (and they've failed for over a year now), then that put us another 2 hours on the year behind. Everything is a tradeoff, either programming time for the enforcer or programming time for another profession. Are you having any reveltions yet?

If you're so bright and seem to know my point, can you rephrase it for me?

You won't get it, but I trust that nobody from FC reading this thread is dense enough not to. Question is, do they even care about the pet professions?

P.S. - No enforcers in the MP forum? Do a search on Anikitos for starters. Bet you can't even admit you got that one wrong.

[Isisnorfret]

Talking about idiotic assumptions... I did read the whole thread before I posted. Amazing that I even referred to various posts on other pages huh? So now I'm not only amazed at your utter selfishness, but your ignorance too.

More insults, you're really hurting me (not). When I said you didn't read the thread I was giving you the benefit of the doubt. Now that I know you have read it, I know that you intentionally misrepresented what other people were saying so you could slip in your silly insults. Feel better about yourself? You're still wrong.

yes, because in those 2 hours they should be applying basic fixes for pet professions that should have been in there a year ago. Basic fixes like changing a one simple stat line so a nano is worth something. Changing one line of effect to change the mez pet from non-functional to functional.

Okay I may be an idiot but I understand the concept that in a company with many employees not all of them are working on the same thing at once. I'm sure the team that is working on pet pathing has nothing to do with adjusting loot tables.

Heck, if they given anybody their weapon choice it should be the grenades for engineers who NEED those weapons... not want a couple more choices. Engineers don't really have any good choice right now, enforcers have several.

This isn't a thread about engineers. If it were really so important then they'd have created a slew of weapons for engineers, and not enforcers.

Yes, we're still talking about those same two hours.

No, we're talking about a large group of people working on many things at once. Those two hours have many places they could come from, not just your monumentally important pet fixes.

How long of a fix do you think it would take to reset the crit nerf that hurt MAs? If they have any reasonable backups it should take less than the "two hours". Yet they haven't done it. So given that they don't have infinite time, which changes should they do first?

LOL Sallust. You point out that they haven't done it.. indeed, well thats probably becuase they don't plan to, and told us as much. They do plan to add these weapons, and while they don't have infinite time, the finite time that they do have is NOT ALL SPENT ON PET PROFESSIONS.

We've been asking for fixes to the same problem for over a year, you want a different flavor "lollipop". Which should they complete first?

Seeing as how programming companies multi-task they should assign a team of people to fixes and a few people to lollipops and it won't really be very important which gets completed first.

BTW just so you know you can stop wasting your time trying to insult me. Coming from someone who doesn't understand the concept of multi-tasking it really doesn't mean much.

P.S. - No enforcers in the MP forum? Do a search on Anikitos for starters. Bet you can't even admit you got that one wrong.

I went and searched it and I read it. I didn't see anything comparing to this situation. You are angry Sallust, and you are lashing out at people who have nothing to do with the circumstances which cause your anger. I'm glad I don't know you in real life.