Fix Neutrals *Bump if You Agree*

[Defiler]

my suggestions,

1) let neuts have all shopping/teaming channels! and make it one channel all 3 in one so if im selling stuff i dont have to do it 3 times (1 neut shop, 1 clan shop, 1 ot shop) make it all 3. Same goes for team channels.

2) Let neutrals use ANY mission terminals if im OT i wouldnt care who does the dirty work i just need it done. I see myself as a freelance assasin, i should be able to be hired by anyone.

3) Have a token board for neuts (not what ur thinking)
-Have it after u do so many missions for OT/clan u can shop in their general stores. Like tokens, but should be easier to get (like if u kill 60% of the ppl u get it) Have the boards get higher and higher.

Maybe just neuts cant use weapon shop because selling weaps unless they are on ur side doesnt make sense.

At this many u can use clan gen stores, then advances, then superior, then after a whole lot have u able to use insurance terminals.

( hell they WANT u to join/help their cause)
(number 3 would help but still has kinks to work out ie. proly wont be implemented)

4) WHen a teamate is attacked (PvP) a neutral should be able to attack the aggressor (not sure if this is still broke, but used to be)

5) Neuts should be able to use OT only stuff

I assume clans cant use it because they wont wear their enimies gear/ dont want to look like OT (RP wise)

But neuts dont care what stuff they use so they should be able to use OT/clan only stuff.

6) For orgs clans advantage is that they (are supposed to) have tons of guild bonus things, Neutrals should have just a few less than clan.

7) have neutral only gear.

To expand maybe have gear everyone can wear that "disguises" them as neutral but gaurds have a 50/50 chance of "sniffing" them out and attacking if on other side.

the disguised would have same PvP rules as neuts BUT they show up on TAB to enemy 25% of the time | so u might have to cycle thru tab 4 times b4 u highlight the disguised guy. (normal neuts should not)

Have it based on Perception(of person pushing TAB) and ql of item.

maybe like cloaking devices they drain life...

8) let neutrals protect their citizens! so many ppl (both ot and clan) kill neutral citizens (npcs) in newland city. When someone does this their gas should lower to 25% and all neuts who are there should be able to attack him/her or if they dont want to dont have to.

Also have gaurds attack the aggressor not the NPC being attacked. (not sure if this has already been fixed)

9) when a single person kills a certain # of neutrals they should be punished from their superiors. Exspecially if it is OT, they say not to kill neuts and if some1 isnt listening to superiors they get punished (cant think of punishment, maybe reduced stats for like 30 min real time & game time // would suck if it was 1 hr game time)

10) have neutrals not show up on TAB, that is lame. noone checks ur allingment b4 they fire in PvP, and in teams its annoying.


Thats all i can think of right now, if u have more suggestion/dis/agree with any of them be sure to post!

Remember Neutrality is a way of life!

EDIT:
if u dont understand something just post and ill try to clear it up

-Stimmed Out

[_______________Fazun]

Originally posted by Stimmed
2) Let neutrals use ANY mission terminals if im OT i wouldnt care who does the dirty work i just need it done. I see myself as a freelance assasin, i should be able to be hired by anyone.

yeah, especially because we'r allready doin jobs for all sides ... ,)

hmmm not sure about point 5 - 7, but maybe we should keep it the way it is as kind of a disadvantage or so .....

cool stuff ,)

[XtroXtreme]

Don´t agree with everything, but bump anyway.

Those poor neutrals do need some love. Do something to make them a more attractive choice (exept being more of a challange).

[Defiler]

I understand that u dont agree with everything, im just tosin ideas out... If anyone has any other ideas i would like to hear them.

In fact if neutrals got all these things they would be over powered

Correct me if im wrong but werent neutrals originally supposed to get more IP/lvl? or did i hear that from an unreliable source?

Also be sure to say what u dont agree with or what u would change or else FC wont know what to put in and what not to put in.

*wishfull thinking*
*wishfull thinking*
*wishfull thinking*
*wishfull thinking*

-Stimmed Out

[______________Babadi]

As an omni, if your not with me, you are against me. That means u can't use my shopping channels, or my shopping booths. If your not gonna help me, then your hurting me. Go ahead be a neut, but don't expect any love from omni, you might as well be a clanner.

[Defiler]

Originally posted by Babadi
As an omni, if your not with me, you are against me. That means u can't use my shopping channels, or my shopping booths. If your not gonna help me, then your hurting me. Go ahead be a neut, but don't expect any love from omni, you might as well be a clanner.

Why is this always the same argument over and over? OT is not at war with anyone officially. Ross is ur boss yet u do not treat him as such, u disobay his orders. Kill neutrals, kill clanners during amnesty. And u say u r OT! if anything ur an OT criminal!

But thats what im saying I WOULD HELP YOU! did u not read that? i would do OT missions --> thus helping ur company!

but appariently OT employees dont need to folow protical or obey their leader.

This is what im talking about, these stupid your not with me ur against me attitude is stupid and not RPing. OT is supposed to make me want to join their side.

If anything u should be punished by Ross!

But to u doing missions for ur company isnt helping u? i dont understand that. Im saying with missions for ur side i would get stuff.

Then why can u use MY shopping booths? because im neutral? i give u r booths because i HELP YOU! in return i should be able to use ur booths! and im sure if a neutral was paying u tons of money for an item u had u wouldnt say no--> even if it was a clanner u wouldnt say no if u got enough money.
-So dont use any RP fantasy that doesnt apply and u break. If u sell ur guns to the highest bidder do u only sell to OT? i bet u have sold a wep to a clannie b4, is htat treason? should u go to jail?

-Neutrals could be the middle man in deals so its not treason

All i can say is if you want to pull some BS about not on my side trying to RP u better RP through the whole damn game, never selling a thing to a clanner even if u get more for it, never buying stuff from neutrals or clanners.
-Also never go against what ur BOSS Ross says. yet u do, peace negotiations with Radiman, then an assasination attempt (proly the one of the same mindset of u)

I know not all of u OTs are as narrow minded as this.

ok, you were just shut down.

DISSED AND DESMISSED!

-Stimmed Out

[Nyadach]

Don't agree with the earlier ones, but the last three ok

The side map upgrade is utterly stupid with its requirements which is why no one uses it. it was proposed way back when that we would be removed from the tab key...way over due now.
The deaths of our civilians, and guards is a major bane of my life, and it sooo gets me annoyed. But supposidly (someone on beta said) newlands is finally going to go 100% and about time too. It was utterly stupid it wasn't anyhow.

Token boards hmm, we've all discussed those before and the best idea for neut "sort of" boards is an award from serving the community. The powers that be don't like the idea it seems of neuts getting them as we don't have any major organistion backing us, not like we're like the wusses in those orgs who need all the backing. And so, if tokens were awarded from the cummunity for community service, than it fits in with us a lot better. As for what they do,
1st board say gives u access to clan/ot trade items
2nd board gives access to normal shops (ammo and guns, but we still cant use ot armour etc)
3rd board gives access to nano stores
4th board gives access to insurance and banks etc
5th board? gives access to say everything

[______________Babadi]

Stimmed your argument is assenine, the second you run a mission for omni tek, you are no longer neutral you are an enemy to the clans. Is that so hard for your feeble mind to understand? Neutrals have no friends, they are looked upon as cowards, if you want to get the benefits of helping me, then join me.

As for selling guns to clanners, I don't. I keep most items worth owning in my guild where they belong. On the rare occasion i do sell an item, i do so on the omni channel. Clanners don't pick that up moron.

If you want to be a neutral fine, but don't expect to get the best of both worlds. I believe you stated you wanted to use omni only armor, and get neutral only armor? I'd be fine with one or the other, but both? As neut you have decided to stay out of the conflict, don't expect both sides to call you a friend. They will simply call you a spineless coward.

As for never going against my "boss". Is it so hard to imagine that I rp a free minded individual? As a rping character i assume you have worked up a little fictional backround to your character.
Well I have, and my father was killed by clanners protecting me at a young age. So i have bitter resentment towards all clanners, and not even Ross can tell me otherwise.

B*tch slapped your argument

[Defiler]

Originally posted by Babadi

As for selling guns to clanners, I don't. I keep most items worth owning in my guild where they belong. On the rare occasion i do sell an item, i do so on the omni channel. Clanners don't pick that up moron.

If you want to be a neutral fine, but don't expect to get the best of both worlds. I believe you stated you wanted to use omni only armor, and get neutral only armor? I'd be fine with one or the other, but both? As neut you have decided to stay out of the conflict, don't expect both sides to call you a friend. They will simply call you a spineless coward.

First off u sell it on OT only channel, ok good for u, buess what? ever here of shopbot or omnibot? claners DO listen in on OT shopping channels.

Second i do not want all of the changes, as i have stated if neutrals had all that they would be too good. As i said earlier i was just tossing out ideas, and i said earlier that if neurals got all this they would be overpowered.

And you are going against a dictator, what Ross says all omni should follow wether they want to or not. And since i am a coward dont u want my money? Already you know i cant attack you so whats ur point.

Your comapany wants more money, if i do missions for ot then your company gets helped out.

Also you said nethier groups would be happy with me, ok but why do u allow anyone to join u no matter what they have done? clanners can convert to omni then back to clan it doesnt matter. Both sides want more fighters and if i help u how does it hurt you?

Next time read all the posts before u tell me something ive already said.

-Stimmed Out

[_______________Rypht]

Babadi, reality check here, Omni-tek is a corporation, corporations get money by doing business with other people, the only other people on the planet that you are not going to be at war with is the neutrals. Any profit you can garner from outside sources is helping you. Any means to accomplish omni-tek's goals is helping you, this includes generating profits or outsourcing lesser tasks while more important jobs are handled by the "In house team".

Neutrals do have friends, friends within both clans and omni-tek, the only people who consider neutrals cowards are those that are too busy hiding behind the mountain of BS they make to justify killing people who are not and can never be any threat to you, and fail to realize that neutrals are a very hardy lot who don't have it easy and didn't take the easy way out.

I think its time for you to take a breather and relax, your hostility displayed here is completely unwarranted and counter productive. If you want to make a suggestion or debate the suggestions offered then do so in a manner that is indicative of how a sane human being acts, not that of a ego tripping adolescent.

[Provisioner]

The PvP and <tab> related options make sense, but none of the others do. As neutrals, we're supposed to be underpowered and small.

If you give neutrals these benefits, what's stopping them (us) from becoming a 3rd faction with 33% of the player-base.

Neutrals are supposed to be tough.

So no, as a neutral, I don't agree...

Provisioner

[______________Babadi]

To Rypt, please describe to me one point you made in your post, I didn't see any. I don't want to Kill neuts, I just want them to stay away from me. I believe it is plainly obvious that the only purpose of being a neut in this game is to observe the conflict before you pick a team. That is what was intended, if you want to stay one fine, but don't expect any favors. The simple fact is that as soon as you help either side, you are no longer a neutral, you are an enemy to one side or the other. It's a fact. And please don't waste forum space with posts that offer no valuable content what so ever. I am now stupider for having read your response.

To Stimmed, yes we want more money, and i be more than happy to exept your assistance, but then you are an enemy to the clans and therefore no longer neutral. You have assisted those who oppose the clans, and would therefore be labeled an enemy, is this so hard to understand? I want your help, so become an omni. Please understand that for good or bad, neutrals were not meant to be a permenant decision in this game. Sorry if i over flamed on you, you do have some valid points, but i don't see life getting that much better for you neuts. You are always welcome to except a position here with us at omni. =)

[_______________Rypht]

Well I guess I'll have to spell it out nice and slow for you (you sure you aren't a clanner?).

The "if you aren't xyz then you are against xyz" arguement is absolute bs, the tool of a lazy mind that does not want to look at having to deal with shades of grey in a greyscale world. Omni-tek needs non-omni's to do business with, it absolutely has to sell to someone, otherwise it will crumble under its own weight. We are not the enemy, and we are not sharing your bed (thank god), but we are not necessarily cowards either. We are here trying to scratch out a living from nothing and potentially make something greater of ourselves. We hold no great animosity against either Omni-tek or the Clans in general. If we take on contractual employment by one of the factions, that does not automatically make us part of that faction, it might bring individual wrath by those whom get offended by the actions of an individual but that still does not make them affiliated with either side. Have you not heard of mercenaries? People who work for money not ideal, they come in, get the job done, and then leave, perhaps to be hired by the other side and turn around and go right against their previous employer. These people are not automatically branded as being one side or the other once they have taken a job, and it is understood as such. If reprisal must be waged, it is against those people involved, no one more. Its called being responsible for your actions and not having some larger entity to hide behind.

If funcom truely meant to make it so that neutrality was strictly an observe until decided player pool, they would have hard coded a limit that we could not progress past without choosing a faction, and they would have mentioned that in the creation process. Yes neutrality is supposed to be difficult because you are trapped in the middle of a battle of idiotic giants, but the arguements against allowing neutrals access to shopping or missions or insurance are foolish. As neutrals, we are supported by the ICC (take a close look at the neutral insurance terminals some time), not directly tied to omni-tek or this federated rebellion on rubi-ka, the weight of that support should at least grant us access to planet wide insurance terminals if nothing more. The ICC is something that whomever comes out victorious in this conflict will have to deal with, Omni-tek's lease is coming up for renewal soon (in relative terms) or the Clans will have to then establish a government for themselves and set things in motion to be recognized by the rest of the known universe, how well these groups treat those the ICC has given support to in the past may influence how they are treated initially for these negotiations. In small words, you need to start thinking about minute positive expressions along with your major negative expressions in this time of conflict.

Looking at the different organizations within Omni-tek, or within the clans, I would think the catch phrase that every dimwit has been handed, "If you aren't with us, you are against us" would be updated to "If you aren't with us, you are against us, and If you are with us, you are most likely against us" just to cover the bases properly

And in closing, Babadi, I am truly glad I have managed to help you do the impossible, I didn't think that one could have a negative IQ, but as you have just professed, its now been done!

[Defiler]

1,2,4,8,9,10

these are the ones i really want implemeted. It would still make neutrality hard but fixes some impacticalities.

1+2 are just chatting and mission terminals

4 is
WHen a teamate is attacked (PvP) a neutral should be able to attack the aggressor (not sure if this is still broke, but used to be)

8 might of been fixed with next patch, i hear newland city is turning into a 100%? but still i think this should go for all factions. if some1s attacking ur gaurd/citizen for fun u should be able to attack him to help defend.

9 is iffy, would be kind of cool but also lame, not a must

10 would help with 9 because most ppl PvP with tab. tab should = enemy not everyone but my faction

and i would like to be able to save at a couple more places, maybe more neutral insurance terminals or some way to save at OT or clan terminals. But i odnt know how that would be implemented...

the rest were just ideas, albeit some would be cool these are the best ones i see fit.

-Stimmed Out

BTW
lets try to keep it calmer here, i know i bashed my fair share becuz it sounded that Babadi didnt want neutrals fixed, im done now. I will only try to post critisizing comments, no flames.

Mostly because i want Cz or Cosmik to read the thread and see if they could get some of this implemented.

[______________Babadi]

I am truly amazed, It always astonishes me to witness someone talking so much, with nothing to say. My argument is not a Black and White one, it is a factual one. We're not talking about mercenaries here we are talking about people who have chosen not to get involved with the conflict, therefore a neutral party. Mercenaries are not neutral, they are hired guns who switch sides at the drop of a dollar. Funcom did not give you that option, (although it might be kind of interesting). I retract my statement about feeling dumber after reading your posts, the drivel you place on this board actually makes me realize how lucky I am to have a decent brain to work with.

As for this pathetic flaming back and forth, I am ashamed to have gotten into it, it is partially my fault, and I will take the higher road and simply put you on ignore. That will deny me any temptation to continue this. I'm sure your not done, but at least i won't have to listen to you anymore.

good day, and good life Rypht

[_______________Rypht]

*rubs hands together cheerfully* One down... where's snarf?

Seriously though, my appologies to the other people trying to hold on a sane conversation in this thread, just one thing set me off, anyone who would say

B*tch slapped your argument

deserves absolutely no respect whatsoever, and I hope that is clear to everyone who comes across this thread! I tried to keep it on a respectful level in my first post, his response demanded a more harsh response, and now I too will cease this nonsense, I hope it was at least entertaining to someone out there

[___________Harlequin]

though reading rypht's post might require asbestos clothing for the person it was intended for (and in all fairness, from reading this thread over, namecalling was initiated by someone other than him) he does make a very valid point about neutrals.

if you look at the game from a RPG perspective, you'll allways have people on rubi-ka that are not either clan or omni for several reasons, and a few of them will probably never be anything but neutral (this could be explained by being an employee of an off-world corp, ideological differences etc)

if you want to look at it from a game mechanics point of view (and as i can see babadi is a NT it shouldn't be too hard to verify) there are neutral-only items ingame, and all faction-specific nanos that i know of have clan, omni, and neutral variants, an example being the NT warp/fold line.

in any case, both you and rypht are entitled to your opinions of course, and only time will tell who is actually right on the subject, but so far i'd say common sense and the game universe itself would lead me to belive that neuts will not be just fence sitters or targets of opertunity as there are simply too many factors on rubi-ka to concider.
it will of course never be a faction in the same sense that omni or the clans are, but it's an alternative, and it's a good solution for those players that are perhaps more intent on playing a role they make for themselves and not just fall in with the rest (speculation on my part of course, not saying you can't RP as a clanner or omni employee )
but then again, common sense is rarely spotted ingame for some reason, both in mechanics and player-related reactions, so we'll just have to see i suppose