Tradeskills and the lost ones.

[Elbo]

I've got a complaint. I get a guy who wants a QL215 MP nano made. Has the disc and a QL226 rock. Wanted me to make it for 50K.

1 person put on ignore.

After that I get a guy who wants me to make him a gun a chemical gun (fixer). Doesnt know what parts he needs to make. I tell him to go research it and get back to me with the correct parts. He asks me if I could buy the items he needs to make it. I tell him I don't shop for anyone. Then he asks me how he should research it. I had already given him www.anarchyarcanum.com or www.virral.com.

2nd person put on ignore.

I get this guy busting me to make him 2 sets of carbonum armor. QL8 for one of his guys and a QL40 set. No tip (not that I would have taken it just a thanks). I can't remember what he wanted after that but it would have required me to go shopping for someone else. I said no and he starts bugging about it.

3rd person put on ignore.


Advice: Know what you want. Bring the parts. Don't be cheap in tipping for items that require alot of skill or implant swaping or requires a hard or soft armor PPPE.

You'll get along with people that can really help you make that SWEET gun you always wanted or armor for your twink or give you advice on what others are using. Don't press them to help you. Don't demand attention. No one owes YOU ANYTHING if you don't like it then raise your tradeskills up and do it yourself. If you can't then behave. Tradeskills people are not here for YOUR personal pleasure in the game.

[Razorbak133]

f'in amen brother. I don't mind doing trade skill stuff but I get kinda insulted when a person just grabs the item and runs when done and doesn't even say thanks. I tend to refuse most tips since alot of stuff people want doesn't require swapping implants but when I have to go visit Mr. Surgery clinic and start swapping stuff around, the least the person can do is offer a reasonable tip. After all, I could be out xping or playing another character rather then help.

Bottom line, if you want help, be kind and nice to the person, know exactly what you need and have the parts ready. And be prepared to pay for the services.

[Seraphim]

I agree. This annoys me to the extreme when people ask me to make stims for them, and expect me to run and fetch the necessary parts. And when I finally get it into their heads that they should buy parts (after explaining to them by macros how the QL of the parts corresponds to each other) in the range of their FA, and still in four cases out of five, they end up with components way out of their FA skill.

I don't think I need even to mention that these people also accuse you of being a griefer or something else absurd.

[Oncidium]

I've got a complaint. I get a guy who wants a QL215 MP nano made. Has the disc and a QL226 rock. Wanted me to make it for 50K.

1 person put on ignore.

This is the only thing i dont agree on, putting people on ignore. I started a Eng recently because i wanted to get into tradeskills. Whenever some guy asks me a stupid question i know it's because they dont know any better, i've dont the same and to elbo. I asked him if he'd make me a ql 215 nano, offered him 2 bags full of nano stuff (ql 200+ rocks nano discs) and some credits. then we hit a little static, i threw a comment about i thought he was better then ethernal so on i got put on ignore lol, but ultimately i deserved it, but had i known tradeskills better i doubt that wolud've happend but then i was never told what you should do for tradeskills. like when somone says "willing to make nanos accepting tips" i'm sure 75% 0f the non-tradeskill ppl think, "hey i got a few discs, maby i can get them made" then when they approach the trader/eng and ask only to be put on ignore i think it turns them off to tradeskills alot... But on the flipside people should know what they are doing beafore they start, and i can see how it would get anoying for 100 ppl a day asking about it. On the price thing you sholud pay or give somthing if your having somthing made, even ql 10 discs. i think the only problem is there isnt a set price on discs, or ppl think they can talk the maker down.

Bottom line, if you want help, be kind and nice to the person, know exactly what you need and have the parts ready. And be prepared to pay for the services.

it sholud be this way but i dont think it'll happen any time soon
for the reason i listed above. -onc

[Tinkertrish]

I had a fun one today ... i girl walks up and asked for a 100+ wrangle, i said i can only do up to 93, she said ok give me it, so i said follow me, took her two a BY to drain. Then she proceeds to kill my victims and i had to tell her to stop. Then she says and i quote "FASTER" I would have stoped and walked away right there if i hadent of hit the wrangle button just as she said it. So wrangle her and she goes "ty" and runs away.

I really cant stand the rudeness of some people sometimes. I mean tips are nice i've gotten 200k from people for a 50 point wrangle and 10k for doing a whole set of ql 125 implants but its the consideration and thankfullness that is the best tip.

[___________Swordfish]

Ok, you wont shop for people, wont tell them the basic essentials they need (even if you know), and wont lift a finger aside from the assembly of the gun? First off, you said if they don't like that, they could go do it themselves. Sorry to break it to you, they pretty much allready are if you aren't willing to go to a small extent of helping a person out, thats why they pay you, to do the exterraneous things that make it simple enough for people so they dont have to learn weapon smithing. Not everyone is proficient in it, not everyone even specializes in it. You gave them sites to look at. okay, but how are they supposed to search through all that stuff to find what they need and if they went to that extent, why are they asking you to assemble the gun? You want people to go do all the work themselves aside from the basic assembly and on top of all that you want a payment of over 50K? Sorry to break it to you but who the heck would actually think a guy like that would be deserving of the money or waste of time talking to them?

[__________Honeypearl]

Originally posted by Swordfish
Ok, you wont shop for people, wont tell them the basic essentials they need (even if you know), and wont lift a finger aside from the assembly of the gun? First off, you said if they don't like that, they could go do it themselves. Sorry to break it to you, they pretty much allready are if you aren't willing to go to a small extent of helping a person out, thats why they pay you, to do the exterraneous things that make it simple enough for people so they dont have to learn weapon smithing. Not everyone is proficient in it, not everyone even specializes in it. You gave them sites to look at. okay, but how are they supposed to search through all that stuff to find what they need and if they went to that extent, why are they asking you to assemble the gun? You want people to go do all the work themselves aside from the basic assembly and on top of all that you want a payment of over 50K? Sorry to break it to you but who the heck would actually think a guy like that would be deserving of the money or waste of time talking to them?

They pay for your time effort and ofcourse the IPs spent on the tradeskills/buffs you are asking for wrangles makes them debuffs for 3 mins and tradeskills needs tremendous amount of IPs, even if most of our tradeskills are green most of the trade skill stuff requires a combination of elect engi and mech engi .. sometimes it requires all the tradeskills like making a nano crystal.. it needs elect engi/ mech engi / quantum FT / nano prog and comp litt

Anyway some other ppl are willing to pay 1k per ql or per point on the service they want other do pay more, tips or just a simple thanks will do too but the consequences is ppl pile up just to get your free and cheap services, maybe if u started a tradeskill char u will know how hard to deal with lots of ppl asking how/what/where questions regarding tradeskills asking every 5 mins when your in town.

Anyway if your not willing to pay for it u can go look for others doing it for free or maybe start your own char who can do it for you.

[Elbo]

Originally posted by Swordfish
Ok, you wont shop for people, wont tell them the basic essentials they need (even if you know), and wont lift a finger aside from the assembly of the gun? First off, you said if they don't like that, they could go do it themselves. Sorry to break it to you, they pretty much allready are if you aren't willing to go to a small extent of helping a person out, thats why they pay you, to do the exterraneous things that make it simple enough for people so they dont have to learn weapon smithing. Not everyone is proficient in it, not everyone even specializes in it. You gave them sites to look at. okay, but how are they supposed to search through all that stuff to find what they need and if they went to that extent, why are they asking you to assemble the gun? You want people to go do all the work themselves aside from the basic assembly and on top of all that you want a payment of over 50K? Sorry to break it to you but who the heck would actually think a guy like that would be deserving of the money or waste of time talking to them?

Let me get this right.. your saying if I gave someone the sites to look at (anarchyarcanum for instance..) that you couldnt click on the weaponsmithing and then see out of the 5-6 options the one that looks like his gun and oddly enough is called Chemical Streaming Maussers?

HOW ****ING PATHETIC.

You will find no one here who actively does tradeskills will go shopping for anyone but the best of friends for 'tips'.

BTW: You don't know what it takes to make a QL215 nano. Its painfully obvious. BTW Whats your name in game on RK2 so I can put you on ignore! (That part will make me happy)

[Buzzboy]

Have to agree with Elbo that Swordfishes comment shows zero insight - tradeskills take time to do for which we get negligible xp, and getting the tradeskills high enough takes ages of adventuring to get the ip - expecting us to do your shoping for you is frankly laughable. I will happily take time to explain to a newbie the basics of construction, and give them useful url s. But if someone with a mid to high level character starts buging me its url s only as if you have enough time to level your character that much you have enough time to read want you want. After all the tradeskillers have to find enough time to read it all and we manage.

[_____________Hodelay]

I thin both Elbo and Swordfish have valid points.

Elbo has the right to practice his tradeskills whichever way he sees fit and if you wish to his secure his services you should know what he does and does not provide. Kinda like do not order a Whopper at McDonalds

On Swordfishes side there are many players who do not particularly care to know the ins and outs of tradeskills they just want the finished product. With alot of my Carbonum Armor customers they just know what QL they want the armor in. They couldn't care less about the process nor do they wish to waste their time in learning the process. I do explain to them that it will cost them more if I do all the purchasing and most are more than happy to pay the extra cost to save themselves the time and trouble of learning the process.
Kinda like not having to bring the oil & filter when you get an oil change for your car.

I think it's just a matter of letting people know what type of service you are willing to provide.

[Spluggorth]

Originally posted by Honeypearl


They pay for your time effort and ofcourse the IPs spent on the tradeskills/buffs you are asking for wrangles makes them debuffs for 3 mins and tradeskills needs tremendous amount of IPs, even if most of our tradeskills are green most of the trade skill stuff requires a combination of elect engi and mech engi .. sometimes it requires all the tradeskills like making a nano crystal.. it needs elect engi/ mech engi / quantum FT / nano prog and comp litt

so your gonna start paying a doc for healing you?
an MA to give you critbuffs?
an enf for hitting you with an ESS?
thats spent IP as well, and implanted!
honey, ive seen you spam all over the channels, and i who is a higher trader than you think you are pathetic in your request for prizes.. Wrangling is Made for Tips these days, if you dont like it, then dont do it! Tips meens that if they can pay they do, if they cant they wount! like you need that 100k anyway with all your affairs going on...pleeaaaseee!

[Elbo]

Originally posted by Emperor Prozek


so your gonna start paying a doc for healing you?
an MA to give you critbuffs?
an enf for hitting you with an ESS?
thats spent IP as well, and implanted!
honey, ive seen you spam all over the channels, and i who is a higher trader than you think you are pathetic in your request for prizes.. Wrangling is Made for Tips these days, if you dont like it, then dont do it! Tips meens that if they can pay they do, if they cant they wount! like you need that 100k anyway with all your affairs going on...pleeaaaseee!

Lets keep to the subject and avoid personal attacks. BTW lvl 151 isnt a high level trader. You're just past the half way point to 200.

I had a good last few days. Just today someone came up to me with all the parts for a QL152 nano (well not all but he tried). Presto nano came out and he was happy. Did he tip me because I had QFT and EE and ME and NP and Comp Lit high enough? Sure why not its alot better than him having to blow 1M+ in IP to raise those up.

[Buzzboy]

Prozek - 2 points back:

1. Personally I tip anyone for any buff i get in a city environment be it for equipping or be it prior to doing a mission solo. Obviously if you are teamed in a mission then you dont pay for buffs/healing as you are all helping each other in different ways (Not that I team much as an engi apart from with other engis or MPs - that pet pathing is still too much of a hassle).

2. I will usually refuse a tip if a trade process has required nothing more than me fishing tools out my backpack and using it on an item. Even so I like to be offered/asked or if the player is broke or low level asked nicely and a thankyou said at the end - it is a matter of showing appreciation, rather than people using you like some glorified shop dispenser

On the point which was raised about charging (or charging more)if people want you to do the running round for them I think thats fair. My personal problem with that is it is so hard to value your time. If it will take me an extra 10 minutes running well thats equivalent to 1/6th of a large solo ql 189 mission to me (I'm a level 127 engineer if anyones wondering, and as my partner has a 139 mp so I have mochams on tap I can always get a slayer out and easily solo a 189 mission). That equates to around 1/6th of 400K creds and 2 million xp. The creds is easy but how much value do you put on 350K xp?

If you could charge xp as well as credits (now there's an idea!!!) I wonder how much the people wanting stuff built would pay in creds rather than have to pay 350K xp....

[__________Honeypearl]

Its plain and simple if u dont want to pay for my service go look for someone else. I also pay for my buffs i offer around 100k-200k for essence SFAs, 50ks for ICs FG and ES. I dont ask money making wrangle when im in team mission. besides wrangles is much different than MA crit buffs, enf essence and Doc's heal those are buff that benefits them and can only be done with a click of a button, on wrangles u need to drain and get debuffed for 3 mins.. i dont see any benefits u can get from wrangles unless ur in a team mission with a team-mate with OE pets or OE weapons. Anyways if price are pathetic ppl shouldnt be asking me more for wrangles and my services, i play most of the time with /anon and /afk toggles on. If ppl is gonna be so mean about my offered service and my suggested price i think i gonna stop doing it to other ppl. Im getting a lot more creds blitzing mission rather than dealing with ppl who dont want to pay for the service they want.

[Rubel]

Originally posted by Swordfish
Ok, you wont shop for people, wont tell them the basic essentials they need (even if you know), and wont lift a finger aside from the assembly of the gun? First off, you said if they don't like that, they could go do it themselves. Sorry to break it to you, they pretty much allready are if you aren't willing to go to a small extent of helping a person out, thats why they pay you, to do the exterraneous things that make it simple enough for people so they dont have to learn weapon smithing. Not everyone is proficient in it, not everyone even specializes in it. You gave them sites to look at. okay, but how are they supposed to search through all that stuff to find what they need and if they went to that extent, why are they asking you to assemble the gun? You want people to go do all the work themselves aside from the basic assembly and on top of all that you want a payment of over 50K? Sorry to break it to you but who the heck would actually think a guy like that would be deserving of the money or waste of time talking to them?

You do realize that most high-level people could easily blitz a mission and make 500k in what, 15 min? Which is close to the time it usually takes to help someone get the parts that are needed for a tradeskill job, swap implants, or find mobs and drain for a wrangle.

That's an example of how much a person's time is worth at the higher levels, and you have to take this into account. If you want a tradeskill person to do such tedious, time-consuming things for you, you'd better be prepared to make it worth the time they spend helping you out.

If you don't want to pay that kind of money, then yes you should be prepared to do some research and get the parts yourself.

[Warlock]

Originally posted by Emperor Prozek


so your gonna start paying a doc for healing you?
an MA to give you critbuffs?
an enf for hitting you with an ESS?
thats spent IP as well, and implanted!
honey, ive seen you spam all over the channels, and i who is a higher trader than you think you are pathetic in your request for prizes.. Wrangling is Made for Tips these days, if you dont like it, then dont do it! Tips meens that if they can pay they do, if they cant they wount! like you need that 100k anyway with all your affairs going on...pleeaaaseee!

This depends largely on circumstance...

If these guys are teamed with you, then 'no' I wouldnt expect to pay for buffs. However if I'm taking time out of these guys game time then its only fair to expect to have to compensate them (moreso if they need to drain, implants swap or something first).

On the other hand, some of your examples are skills the player would have had to increased to play their profession, and many of these buffs would be used by the player on a daily basis. The difference with alot of tradeskills is that they are optional in that a player does not need to raise them to play his profession, nor would he use them in day-to-day play.

The other thing you fail to acknowledge is this. Take an Engineer for example, at certain points in the game he will need to get MP and/or Trader buffs to keep his pet at an acceptable level. These buffs are often charged for (for whatever reason) but since Engineers have no buffs that are desired by the community (i.e. nothing they can charge for) the only way they can make money from other players is via tradeskills

[Whealer]

Now this may seem like an obvious statment but I think it needs to be said. In the case of the nano crystal mentioned above even if the person where to tip the tradeskill person 500K for the making of the crystal they are still not spending nearly the amount that the crystal would cost in its completed form. This said in essence you are getting the crystal at a bargin discount rate. Granted if you are only having it made to turn around and sell it to a shop the cost may not be worth it but in that instance you never really needed the crystal in the first place so there should be no complaints.

It all boils down to supply and demand. A lvl 200 Atrox solider is able to raise there tradeskills up to 651 without implants it is there choice not to follow that path. While 651 in tradeskills may not build every item it will build most level items that could be used by them.

Bottom line is don't expect people to respect you if you don't respect them also.

[__________Honeypearl]

Most of the people who want thier IDs converted to nanocrystals are those rare type nanos like nullity sphere and grid armors. I think its fair enough to pay the tradeskillers to convert it for 500k.

[Elbo]

Originally posted by Honeypearl
Most of the people who want thier IDs converted to nanocrystals are those rare type nanos like nullity sphere and grid armors. I think its fair enough to pay the tradeskillers to convert it for 500k.

Obviously you don't make nano crystals. If people only wanted the rares made into nanos like the ones you listed above most people would do one of those about once a week depending on how often you are on etc.

I get requests every week for LW and KPT and well the whole gambit from QL90-215. Mostly fixer nanos lately.

[Afelia]

Building Nano Crystals is such a pain and takes so much time for high-QL that it's only far to pay well for it.

I did a ql 159 last weekend. (NS2). I spent 3 hours, making 5 implant setups and spent 80k IP. Then I spent 2 hours getting enough bufs to put my armour back on. I could get 1 level and some millions of cash/loot in that time. Ok, next NS2 will require 30-60 minutes + getting the bufs needed. If I have to tip for the bufs, that will cost me 3-400k alone.

Naturally, I wouldn't do this for free unless the owner was a fellow guild member.

I got this policy:
If I can do the tradeskill/buf by just getting stuff from bags/bank and I'm not in a mission/hurry, I'll do it for Tips.

If I have to drain for the bufs or change implants for the tradeskill, you better offer som cash.

Yes, I will shop for parts for making NanoCrystals but you have to bring your own Carbo Sheets.

-Af