In regards to MAs complaining about their new skill

[_________MonstaJugga]

hehe ok, you better try, cause I know i'm gonna sweat my ass off.

One thing tho, I never said my evades affected your damage. I noticed you hitting me for every hit also. Agents have been whining for an evade buff for a while now. I admit, we whine too, just not as much, cause we were never 'loved' to begin with.

But yes, our evades maxed and implanted still is not enough even on full D.

If I win, I give you my word I will shut my mouth and delete this thread altogether. (only if you put up a fight to win though =) You know, based on what you just said though, I think you should start off by asking for an agent evade buff for us regardless. And if I win we could then both ask for MA love.

[Ainur]

- Before patch 13.92 most MAs lvl 80+ did minimum damage when fighting mobs above their level. (13.92 was patched to live in march 2002)

- MAs were considered weak in PvP until patch 14.2, which made the UVC line of crit buffs self-only. (Patched to live in June 2002)

Since then, we've been a decent PvP profession.

Some MAs started using River 6 for PvP, and this WAS unbalancing. Having a fast, ranged weapon that did 15-89(945) while being able to run and having a crit chance of ~42 % made this variety of MA too good, imho.

Fist/physical init weapon using MAs were never overpowered in my opinion.

Now, we have halved crit chance. Our fists, and all our alternative MA weapons are crit reliant. We can use bows, but these too are mostly crit reliant, and we have no bow buffs, which makes our attack rating low.


Other professions are switching to non-crit reliant weapons, while we don't really have many options.


Raising our minimum damage would help a lot. At the moment, 1K MA skill makes a 65-280(500) weapon. Maybe change it to 200-300(500) or so ? I dunno... But anyway, something needs to be done about our non-crit damage output....


__________
Ainur

[DaveDread]

Lol, I tried to write what just Ainur said (rewrote about 5 times, started over and over... it all turned into a crying whining fest hehe).

[PezPower]

Just a couple observations from someone who's never played an MA:

My "tank" NT was about 50-50 with them. Since 14.6 I don't even bother rooting anymore, waste of nano and time.

My soldier had some trouble with them, but not too much pre-14.6. Now it's like popping a zit, annoying maybe but hardly painful.

The fact is that MAs are not too PvP viable at the moment and need a new juicing. Whether or not this new stun/de-root/whatever attack is it will have to be seen.

[______________Yazule]

Originally posted by MonstaJugga
Agents dont' complain, because we were never spoiled to begin with.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

how long exactly have you been playing agent. They have gotten nerfed more times than anyone but maybe solja and they are still viable in pvp. (this gives you a clue as to how "spoiled" you guys were).

Where do you think 50% damage 40% total damage cap came from?

answer: solja alpha and one shot kills from agents


OMG that statement alone says to me "just dont listen to her"

either you dont know JACK about the history of your class (meaning you should basically closeth thine mouth) or you are SO biased that you should closeth thine mouth.


hahahahah


omg if ignorance is bliss you must be the happiest person on the planet.

PS. 90% of the old school "spoiled" agents quit or rerolled another class

kthxbye

[Atremis]

I'm just going to reiterate a point here that has gotten lost in the flame-fest:

The problem with MAs right now is confined solely to our inability to exploit alternative forms of damage dealing. Whereas other profs can swap in a new weapon that does not rely on crits to deal good damage, MAs are basically SOL because all of our weapons do no more damage than our fists vis-a-vis normal damage.

For example, a ql200 claw does 30-300(300) (going off memory btw, could be a little bit off but you get the idea)... thats hardly much more than ql 500 fists. On the other hand, a gun-using prof can generally scrounge up a gun that does in the 500-600 upper range for normal damage without too much trouble. See, MAs just don't have that option right now. Our only other option atm are bows, but without buffs and a well thought out selection, they too do us no good.

Fixing minimum damage might help, but its really only a half-fix. My guess is that Funcom just has no idea what to do.

Typical FC.

[________________Alli]

here's what to do...make crit buffs back to 100% in pvp and remove llts from meleers. it's as simple as that really.

i have no problem with llts on ranged users, that just means that they have to fight at closer to full agg and i can crit them more often.

the original plan was to nerf LLTs but because of all the crying going on (mostly by people who say we ma's are crying too much now :0 ) and all the canceled accounts, FC changed its stance on that issue. instead, we got a major ma nerf. and anyone that thinks this affects anyone 1/2 as much as ma's is just plain inexperienced.

[bloodfist99]

i dont think thats a bad idea at all

[______________Yazule]

Originally posted by garzini
here's what to do...make crit buffs back to 100% in pvp and remove llts from meleers. it's as simple as that really.

i have no problem with llts on ranged users, that just means that they have to fight at closer to full agg and i can crit them more often.

the original plan was to nerf LLTs but because of all the crying going on (mostly by people who say we ma's are crying too much now :0 ) and all the canceled accounts, FC changed its stance on that issue. instead, we got a major ma nerf. and anyone that thinks this affects anyone 1/2 as much as ma's is just plain inexperienced.

hey thanks for hosing enforcers and ma docs and melee advents and ma engineers and ma <insert class with no specific weapon choices here>

*edit* that has been the big issue all along

[bloodfist99]

thats what us gimpy mas are for.. to crit buff you guys :P, also with the AR a enfocer has is it really that hard to crit?

[______________Yazule]

Originally posted by Sythex
thats what us gimpy mas are for.. to crit buff you guys :P, also with the AR a enfocer has is it really that hard to crit?

well when you are talking about 15% + MoP + AR on a ranged guy

and then me with 8% + MoP + AR then yes

and ma's have self only buffs that are huge
and agents have self only buffs that are huge

it is not the ability to crit that we would lack... it is the ability to crit AS OFTEN... not being equal it would be a nerf for all melee except MA

7% is a big deal when you are in long fights

[________________Alli]

Originally posted by Yazule


hey thanks for hosing enforcers and ma docs and melee advents and ma engineers and ma <insert class with no specific weapon choices here>

i'm actually doing you a favor. with no llts you can use the QB or another hard hitting enforcer weapon and hit faster. there is no need for crits when regular hits are for 1800.

do docs really need crits? with their debuffs and dots i'd have to say they are pretty good as is. don't forget wrack and ruin, debuffs 100 to all weapon (maybe nano too, forget) skills. once i get hit with that, i can't equip my claw or bow anymore.

melee advents have good things too. i would love to have a 94 damage shield all the time. that + rrf + bracers = more reflected damage than i deal.

if i could go to a harder hitting weapon, this topic would not even be discussed. problem is, i hit for 200, no matter what i do. and i don't have any options at all :/

[bloodfist99]

hmm but enfocer wepons do fine with out criting, enfocers do not need to even crit once to win a fight.. beams do massive dmg, pipes have tons of attacks. so if you crit slightly that a ranged player how bad will that really hurt you?

[________________Alli]

exactly my point sythex.

[______________Yazule]

naa, not true at all, a beam hits as low as like 50 for me, you guys are just used to moderate damage over time

crits are a pretty big deal for enforcers, to think otherwise is silly, it is a crit based game.

QB is an exception, but slow so one miss totally skews your damage/time ratio

our BIG hitters are all slow, and they nerfed the addalloff on FoB and in the patch notes they are nerfin melee init above 1200, slowing us down in two ways.

sorry guys, there has to be a solution, but this aint it.

and you have not adressed every other melee/ma toon out there (most of whome need more looking at than enforcers)

*edit2* you did adress them, but ask them what they think on their boards and watch the fires burn /edit

right now enforcers are competitive in pvp vs the "uber classes"... even workin on uber ourselves, but give the other classes double of current crits *edit* without thrown us a bone /edit and we become dead meat in a hurry

[_________MonstaJugga]

heh, Yazule I've literally been playing AO since the day it went live and I remember how overpowered AS's used to be.

You guys just go on and on to prove my point. So with the 50/40 patch agents went from god to average. Yes there were outcries on our part, but it made sense. Ever since then we've been getting nerfed over and over, and now as i said before we pretty much have a 50% chance of winning a duel. In a sense, we got nerfed harder back then than MAs did with 14.6. We went from being 95% of winning in pvp to 50%. MAs IMO from about 90% to 55-60%.

The same thing just happened to MAs. Just as agents weren't the only ones using AS back then, other classes besides MAs also have crit%. MAs just happened to get hit harder because they have more % to lose. Same thing with agents, we got harder cause more agents used AS than other classes, still we weren't the only ones. I didn't see as many agents back then threatening to cancel their accounts as I do MAs now. Besides the crit buffs, we literally have not gotten anything unique since then.

I'm really glad you brought it up yazule, it was an analogy I wanted to mention before but got too lazy before to bring up.

[______________Yazule]

hehe

the analogy you wanted to make after you stated that agents were never spoiled?

[AkodoReign]

Results
200 MA vrs. The world
True results

Fight 1 MA vrs. Soldier.
Soldier and MA square off Things are going the MA's way untill bing 4000 point full auto.. MA dies...

Fight 2 MA vrs Trader..
Fight comes to a standstill after about 3 minutes of healing and rooting... Both give up and laugh about it.

Fight 3 MA vrs Engi..
((((cant say... NDA still applies))) but MA lost.

Fight 4 MA vrs. Enforcer
OUch 3 hit fight.. all the enforcer...

Fight 5 MA vrs. Crat..
Spent so much time Calmed and Rooted it wasn't funny Lost but was able to zone.

Fight 6 MA vrs. Agent..
Got fustrated and DImached the agent... Opps... not fair test my bad...

Fight 7 MA vrs. MP..
Couldn't heal / escape MP owned me..

Fight 8 MA vrs Fixer
MISS MISSS MISS PARRY MISS MISS MISS... Sigh...

Fight 9 MA vrs Doctor..
Doctor CH'ed I died...

Bah ok so against a Trader I did ok.. but now lets see how does a MA stack up to anyone now...

[Ashuras]

Akodo, how about MA versus ADV ?

Hmm.. if MA's don't like their new root breaking skill.... how about we swap. ADVs give u their uber root/snare resist, while u give us the skill ? Good deal ?

[AkodoReign]

Yea you can have it.. All it says is Target resisted.. All yours my freind..
OH WAIT>>> You get it to ITs a MA attack means all you need is 466 in ripose and you can have it to...

Know what your saying before you say it please.