Multi-Wield - Is it worth changing?

[chrisb7]

Is it worth doing a skill reset on 1H Edged and Multiwield and puttin the points into a two-hand weap, as I am seein little advantages attackin with two weapons (doesnt seem to do much more than one 1HE weap.)

Thanks,

K

[_____________Borrace]

this has been the point of dozens and dozens of posts on the advent boards....

multi wield does virtually nothing. at high levels you are lucky to pull a 10-15% increase in damage over time for a skill boosted over 1000 points. and that is only if multi wield actually worked right.

FUNCOM....

FIX MULTI WIELD!

[Darkbane]

I'd wait and see how the init changes due in 14.7 in a few days affect it.

The maximum damage output that should be possible for 2 equal weapons (which isn't possible in many cases) is +25%. Whether this is worth the IP is up to you. For some though its more about style.

[_____________Borrace]

Originally posted by Darkbane
damage output that should be possible for 2 equal weapons (which isn't possible in many cases) is +25%. .

right..."which isn't possible in many cases" because multi ranged requirements are completely screwed to hell. but you are correct on the maximum output produced...

math for those who care:

1 gun = 1 sec attack/1 sec recharge = 30 shots per min
2 guns = 1 sec attack/1 sec attack/1 sec recharge(both) = 40 shots per min

the problem is that with pistols, you will NEVER EVER EVER EVER be able to realize the 25% because you cannot equip a ql200 V3 in your offhand, or a River Seasons XP in your offhand, or a BBI in your offhand, or a Vulture in your offhand. the only ql200 guns you can equip in your offhand do really poor damage when compared to the premium pistols.

so you don't get the 25% increase, you are left with a 10-15% increase depending on what special items, implants, and buffs you can get to increase your multi ranged skill.

-edited for a typo-

[Nefastor]

It's interesting to see how people playing a game so full of calculations can make stupid mistakes...

FYI, going from 30 spm to 40 spm is a 33% increase, not 25%.

Going from 40 to 30, however, IS a 25% decrease.

Now, my main char is only level 60 so I don't know much about ql200 weaponry, but when I buy weapons in a shop (namely, Sleekmaster Classic) I can very well get a pair and dual wield Identical guns. Do you means that the most powerfull guns, although dual-wieldable, can only be used in one hand ?

I also think something is wrong with dual-wield. We have all seen the Matrix plenty of times, right ? Now did you see Neo shoot one gun, then the other ?

My view is that if you're gonna carry two guns, it's to use them AT ONCE. That would mean twice the attacks, granted a slight malus because aiming and shooting two guns at once is more difficult than just one.

Of course, the AO dual-wield system is OK for melee weapons : unless you are Conan the Barbarian, you'll usually alternate strikes with each weapon.

What is your opinion ?

[Nullifax]

Originally posted by Malevol
It's interesting to see how people playing a game so full of calculations can make stupid mistakes...

FYI, going from 30 spm to 40 spm is a 33% increase, not 25%.

Going from 40 to 30, however, IS a 25% decrease.

Now, my main char is only level 60 so I don't know much about ql200 weaponry, but when I buy weapons in a shop (namely, Sleekmaster Classic) I can very well get a pair and dual wield Identical guns. Do you means that the most powerfull guns, although dual-wieldable, can only be used in one hand ?

I also think something is wrong with dual-wield. We have all seen the Matrix plenty of times, right ? Now did you see Neo shoot one gun, then the other ?

My view is that if you're gonna carry two guns, it's to use them AT ONCE. That would mean twice the attacks, granted a slight malus because aiming and shooting two guns at once is more difficult than just one.

Of course, the AO dual-wield system is OK for melee weapons : unless you are Conan the Barbarian, you'll usually alternate strikes with each weapon.

What is your opinion ?

My opinion is that since 1-handed weapons do less damage than 2 handed anyway, and the fact that you have to spend a godawful amount of IP on an extra skill anyway, multi-wield should be treated as 2 attacks each on totally independant timers. That means:

1 weapon at 1sec att/1 sec recharge = 30 hits per minute
2 weapons at 1 sec att/1 sec recharge = 60 hits per minute

Since the multiwield req is almost always the limiter on the second hand anyway, you won't have double damage to begin with.

[Blackwing]

with 33% more IF it were possible to get said 33%.

in other words lower multi wield reqs.

and next patch please kthxbye.

[_____________Borrace]

my mistake...

you are correct

33%, not 25%...i was at work and wasn't paying attn...oh well.

still, the point remains the same. you cannot achieve it ever with pistols because of the prohibitively high multi ranged reqs. take a look at the advent board for exact numbers...as is quite apparent i am not a number cruncher...

but check out the MR reqs on these ql200 pistols which are considered the better pistols in the game...

BBI Faithful: http://auno.org/ao/db.php?cmd=view&id=159039
River Seasons XP: http://auno.org/ao/db.php?cmd=view&id=162933
Electronicum V3: http://auno.org/ao/db.php?cmd=view&id=160292
Vulture: http://auno.org/ao/db.php?cmd=view&id=162902

even the Boomer as slow as it is: http://auno.org/ao/db.php?cmd=view&id=123475

none of these weapons are useable as an offhand weapon at lev 200 currently if you have green pistol skill, fully maxed at tl6, fully implanted with ql200 implants, with advent multi ranged buffs, and with the new tl6 armbands.

so, you never are going to get that 33% that you have spent millions of ips in at the higher levels when the damage really is needed most. by the way, because you're a pistol user...you only get 1 special (if that) on the above pistols.

so the point of the original post is the same...you can never achieve the magic number with pistols.

i appologize for my poor math skills.

[_____________Brandon]

Ummmm.... What 2he weapons are 33% mo better than a 1he weapon? Shouldnt you guys just be glad of any increse at all?

[_____________Borrace]

Originally posted by Oldskule / Ternak
Ummmm.... What 2he weapons are 33% mo better than a 1he weapon? Shouldnt you guys just be glad of any increse at all?

aw...poor you with your brawl, fast attack, dimach, 1000 point hits and 5000 point crits....

a ql200 V3 is probably the best over all damage pistol in the game...it has zero specials, does about 800 points of average damage and crits for a bit over 2000. no specials = no alpha = unbalance in pvp.

a 33% increase in damage over time hardly makes that much of a difference if an advent or pistol user is dead after a nice alpha, and a quick crit.

now...lets say you spend the ips to MAX the skill...you don't even get the 33% anymore...you get something less...15%? 20%? 25%? that all depends on your profession. advents can raise their multi ranged reqs through self buffs and special items. all other profs have to use implants only.

the amount of IPs that we have to spend in order to carry a second pistol should allow us to fully benefit from the damage of the other pistol. but, because the multi wield system is set attack/attack/recharg(both), instead of having 2 independant attacks and recharges, we will never truly get the full benefits of the damage from the second pistol.

so...to recap

1. the magic number 33% is unattainable, you get something less.

2. the multi wield recharge system is already set to give a time penalty.

3. we spend lots of ips on this skill.

4. no pistol alternatives with additional specials.

[Darkbane]

Originally posted by Malevol
It's interesting to see how people playing a game so full of calculations can make stupid mistakes...

FYI, going from 30 spm to 40 spm is a 33% increase, not 25%.

Duh! I've the same excuse as Borrace... really... I was at work... therefore my brain was switched off

[Blackwing]

Originally posted by Oldskule / Ternak
Ummmm.... What 2he weapons are 33% mo better than a 1he weapon? Shouldnt you guys just be glad of any increse at all?

basically this is the same point as the one raised by hybrid weapon users.

wtf is the point of spending more ip just to get even with somebody who picks the perfect weapon?

if the reqs wont be touched and the damage not upped, maybe make them harder to evade/parry.

anything really, just give me hope not to reset the points

[Caloss2]

Yep, for a pistol weilding adv, there really is no possibility of using two QL200 pistols at the same time so they forfit the %33 damage increase.

I am more than aware of this after 181 lvls with pistols, I gave in and went melee, and yep the damage is way better, not just because of the much lower multi-weild for SOL F/E types, but the rather nice fire damage they do too.

some stats to check on:

SOL Fire Executioner Type E

Verses:

BBI Faithful 750

I miss my pistols, but if I went back to them I think I'd miss the damage I have now even more

/me sighs


peace
cal

[xyberviri]

Just go 2he so you dont have to deal with this BS,

LongMoon
RiderWarblade
TrueKatana

If your advent might want to look into the East Wind Katana.

If your Enf might want to check into the new Katanas added last patch.

Else one of the above 3 should suit your choice.

im advet and go with true katanas some others say that there too slow, Eh your not playing MY game or THERE game, your playing your OWN game so make your OWN descisions basied on the info provided.