Ipr Ipr Ipr

[__________THEDEACON!]

I can't believe it. As much as I love this game to death, this may actually be the final nail in the coffin for me. I'm going to stick around and see how it goes, I don't want to jump the gun, but dang, they need to quit with the nerfs already. The game has just been out for too long to make such drastic changes every patch. Now what? I play a martial artist, an extremely crit reliant profession, just like traders. Our crits are already getting cut by the changes to the scopes, no more ability to break roots, now crits will be cut in half in pvp? Holy smokes, I still can't believe it.

I've just spent so much time levelling my characters only to find each one hurt by changes to the game. I swear I'm really not trying whine here, I'm just really sad because as much as I love AO, the changes are too frustrating. I really wish Funcom would, for once, listen to players BEFORE changes like this are implemented. We're your customers, please, listen to us. We're all trying to say this is a bad thing.

If you don't like being critted so much, raise your evades, they do work now. Wow, this is really startling news....

I guess this makes NTs more viable in pvp maybe....Melee Adventurers and enforcers have decent non crit damage, but the martial artist and a shotgun wielding trader....I mean, wow...

Have you ever seen non crit damage for fists in pvm? Imagine that cut in half...

Well it looks like for a short time rooting professions will own pvp, I see a great imbalance here. I'm honestly not sure what to play anymore. PVP really is my love. Fixers and Doctors WILL get nerfed soon, that's out of the question. Traders have always been too uber with too little strategy to bother with (at least before this nerf)...

Ugh this is really depressing, and I've recently been a self admitted fanboy. I'm going to stop typing now because I'm just not quite sure what to say anymore.

[Nealandbob]

Originally posted by Zylina
I have DARK BLUE weapon skills. Yup. Every single last one of them. 7 of them near maxed in order for me to participate in pvp since nukes/pets are a joke. When you have DARK BLUE weapon skills (all of them now), you can not rely on some weapon with high min damage blahblah. Those of us with DARK BLUE weapon skills must crit. Otherwise we hit for:

24
100
125
93
etc etc.

Now if this game wasn't ****ed up its ass in regards to pets and nukes, this wouldn't be such a big deal. But it is.

I love how people with green weapon skills can be so passe about things like this. Those with actual AR. I laugh when they piss and moan about 'only having 1k AR' when self buffed, those of us with DARK BLUE weapon skills have at least 200 less.

I'd be very curious if Yazule would hold his holier then though attitude if his enforcer nanos suddenly required different nano skills to be used. If every other patch NANOS were ****ing nerfed and he was forced to use other nano skills. But of course he would. Duh. He's better then us mere mortals, cause we just suck.

I've probably spent more ip on my weapon setup then he's gained in all his total levels combined.*snicker*

So.....now I'm forced to nuke. Wear my creation weapons, hope for a gph. Funcom throws me a 17 second nano to reduce snares on my pets. They sure are on top of how this game works.

Reducing crit does nothing unless Funcom fixes the problems that force so many of us in to being crit reliant gun totting *****es.

What really pisses me off is that this is just affecting one aspect of the game. I can't nuke in pvm. I don't need to xp anymore, and what pvm I do is against mobs that you land 2 out of 50 nukes...with 1100+ MC. So now not only do I already have 7 ****ing DARK BLUE weapon skills gorging on my IP, I have to raise at least 2 more. Probably 3. Plus blue inits. Just so I can be effective in both pvp and pvm.

Whoever thought this up sucks. Half assed measures suck. Gah.

Hmmm........I really like Yaz, so I feel I have to step in here.

Go read his posts. He IS *usually* right. Maybe he is in this instance, maybe he isn't. And no, he hasn't gone to lvl200 yet. But only because he hasn't CHOSEN to do so, imho. So step back, relax, and wait to see if he's actually WRONG first before you give him hell. And if he *is* wrong, Yaz will first make a public apology, and then join your cause in demanding action. I believe I know him well enough to make that statement with a good degree of certainty.

And, SURE! Change the new Enforcer nano requirements to a different set of skills, it won't matter in the least.........because, all our nanoskills are DARK BLUE, and they're all maxed/planted already anyway(except T&S). You get excellent nanoskills and horrible weaponskills.......Enforcers are exactly the opposite. But yet, Enforcers are one of the most intensive classes with combat nanos in PvP(if you're playing right, that is). OH, and my "uber" weaponskills? My AR with my Byom/Rider combo is only 830's fully buffed(except Challenger). I'm lvl196, and have ummm........150K IP. And lots more stuff to raise still. Don't talk to an Enforcer about heavy IP costs, especially us dual-wield types.

But, sorry I strayed.......going further along those lines would be sure to start another flame war, which couldn't be further from my intention. Just hear Yaz out, and wait and see what happens. If he turns out to be wrong, THEN kick his butt

[Achmed20]

i wanna know why ever1 wants more IPR so badly?

every time u get a new title lvl u get more IPR. i cant beleive how many allready wasted their IPR. for what? noc change was that big, that it need to use all IPR in teh game.
some of us had the chance to do a full IPR and thats far mor than enough.

i dont know 1 game where u have the chance to rreset any of ur skillz. so be happy with the way it is now.

i just have 1 IPR left my self but thats cause i did several experiments. i had 10 before. thats my fault and not any1 elses.

[gwend]

Originally posted by Achmed20
i wanna know why ever1 wants more IPR so badly?

every time u get a new title lvl u get more IPR. i cant beleive how many allready wasted their IPR. for what? noc change was that big, that it need to use all IPR in teh game.
some of us had the chance to do a full IPR and thats far mor than enough.

i dont know 1 game where u have the chance to rreset any of ur skillz. so be happy with the way it is now.

i just have 1 IPR left my self but thats cause i did several experiments. i had 10 before. thats my fault and not any1 elses.

some mmorpgs skills are raised by using them over and over so you cant screw up some like ac2 you can reset as many skills as you want by earning back xp spent on the skill

giving people options makes people happy giving people limited options make people happy for a short time until they have no place left to go

[Achmed20]

just liek E&B does but i personaly dont like it.
cause imagine u have the chance to build the ueber item, u r forced to begin building crappy items over and over aggain till ur skill is high enough.

[__________Beautyfarm]

Originally posted by Achmed20
i wanna know why ever1 wants more IPR so badly?

every time u get a new title lvl u get more IPR. i cant beleive how many allready wasted their IPR. for what? noc change was that big, that it need to use all IPR in teh game.
some of us had the chance to do a full IPR and thats far mor than enough.

i dont know 1 game where u have the chance to rreset any of ur skillz. so be happy with the way it is now.

i just have 1 IPR left my self but thats cause i did several experiments. i had 10 before. thats my fault and not any1 elses.

its a difference if you experiment for fun or if the rules are changed every patch so you have to revamp your character to be effective. several changes hit professions in different ways, while it might not concern you its a big blow another one.

[______________Yazule]

Originally posted by tallistro


its a difference if you experiment for fun or if the rules are changed every patch so you have to revamp your character to be effective. several changes hit professions in different ways, while it might not concern you its a big blow another one.

I have seen a number of threads saying basically

"use this weapon type til thiss level, then switch to this other type"

some of these threads are talking about DIFFERENT SKILLS.

"some" people plan their char around IPR.

Lets look at it this way... 15 IPR, + 1 full up reset (for most of the playerbase).

Now lets say the average "fix" of a toon is 5 skills.

Someone show me how funcom has nerfed any class SO badly since they instigated the first Full IPR that you would need to change 4 times in the past few months without being GIMPED.

People use IPR's and then want more. Not because they NEED them, but because they want to just use them.

maybe some time in the distant future (a year maybe) they will have made so many changes to the game that someone can say

"well because of nerf 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 and 10 I have actually saved and used ALL of my IPR's to gimpedness"

then I will probably change sides and say "yeah! give that guy another chance you big meanie nerfin company funcom!!!!!"

Nobody has yet anywhere told me how they used all their IPR's and the full reset due to MAJOR NERFS. Probably because you couldnt even MAKE UP something that would be reasonable if you were dumb as a box of rocks and started with assault rifle as an enforcer.

ahh well

and Neil... thanks for the props bro. I apriciate it.

[______________Yazule]

Originally posted by Hailieglade
Ok Cz, thats nice dear, you told me im wrong. now do the 2nd part. tell me why. its like your math teacher always told you to right out the problem instead of just coming up with the answer. Explian WHY you wont be providing IPR pts.

..because right now, to me, this just seems like you guys are happy to finally put a brick on our heads (OE'ing being the first attempt).

lets start with you explaining where all your IPR's went (and dont forget the changes from your full IPR).

You probably "tweeked" your char, not "fixed something broken so bad I NEEDED IPR"

I am still waitin to hear from someone who can justifiably say that they used all their IPR because they were GIMPED over and over (and over and over).

[Turin]

Originally posted by Yazule


try a non crit or die weapon, like a HD or vek






x-3 = beam for agents

Chem mauser (at least at low levels, have not watched high level chem mousers) = beam for fixa's

people will have to adjust to half crits.

My beam hits for a non-crit max of about 1600 with 918 attack. My beam crits for 3500 *all numbers are non pvp, so halve them for pvp*

crits are how I do damage with my beam, I also have NO SPECIALS (brawl w00t) and people that can get 10k sneak/AS/FA's will benifit from less crits.

beam aint all that, no matter what you think. Yes it is a GOOD weapon, there are better out there.

EVERYONES CRITS ARE HALVED, ie EVERYONE CRITS HALF AS OFTEN... I hate crit dependant weapons myself, as a crit should be rare imho. If you have a crit or die weapon then you may have to rethink things (which is what 90% of the pvp scene uses). I think a less crit dependant game is a step in the right direction.

just find a weapon that works without NEEDING crits. Oh no, no more UBERNESS, just GOOD... omg what will I do if I dont pwn everyone every time!

just my 2 creds.

*edit* shotty has HD and vek which are not crit dependant too, so that is smg, rifle, shotty, all viable options that require no IP resets.

Dont mind Yazule, he obvioulsy has no grasp of Game Mechanics.


Fierst of all, the IPR points were to make up for PAST game change's. NOT future ones.

Secondly.

Dont punish people for making choice's based game mechanics they thought perfectly legit.

You cant just "assume" something will be changed down the road.

hey, I "assume" that beams and x3's will be nerfed soon, so I had better not use one. And if I do.. well, then im stupid cuase i should have "known better"


This logic makes sense? Please. even you cant be that short sighted.

[_________Hailieglade]

my question still has not been answered Cz.

(why)

[Jaesic]

You start training in Judo today... and spend 4 hours a day for the next 15 years training to master Judo in its entirety. Fifteen years from now, you decide that now that you have a reasonable understanding off Judo, your needs for a martial art would be better served with karate. You don't get back those 21000+ hours of training. Sure, you start your training in karate with a better understanding of your innate abilities, sense of balance and so forth... but nothing can give you back that time. Certainly, you cannot experiment with your life out of order, deciding that instead of having spent the last 10 years playing computer games would have been more effective spent training to be an olympic class diver... and then suddenly starting to compete for the gold.

Because things happen that change the game mechanics, we have been given the opportunity to modify a limited amount of our characters' past. These IPR are to be used to recover from situations that are beyond are control. To some small extent they can be used for experimenting with things that we might not otherwise risk trying... but to believe that we deserve more of them every time some new invention comes along is... at the minimum, unrealistic.

A new invention tomorrow could change our world so completely that some skill most of our society has learned could become useless. We won't get back the time or effort.

If you have used your IPR to follow every new whim in what defines the current "best" in the game, you have committed your time and effort unwisely. Those people who have waited and are still waiting for a major reason to adapt to the "new world" will be able to do so while you have to remain behind. Perhaps during the world changing developments in our future (Notum Wars / Shadowlands), you will be given a few additional options... but please stop demanding more just because you wasted what you had.

Jaesic
161 NT (RK2)
[with 10 IPR remaining]

[_________Hailieglade]

if your talking about unrealistic/realistic, real life does not nerf judo, nor does it nerf shotgun, in real life, if i practice with my double barrell .12 gauge 4hrs a day, and i can shoot people and hit their critical organs 20% of the time, and i do this for 1 yr, then the next day i wake up and god has created a new patch for me, we'll call it 14.6. and now all of a sudden i can only shoot people 10% of the time in their critical organs, it does not add up, i would ask god for IPR pts.

[Jaesic]

Originally posted by Hailieglade
if your talking about unrealistic/realistic, real life does not nerf judo, nor does it nerf shotgun, in real life, if i practice with my double barrell .12 gauge 4hrs a day, and i can shoot people and hit their critical organs 20% of the time, and i do this for 1 yr, then the next day i wake up and god has created a new patch for me, we'll call it 14.6. and now all of a sudden i can only shoot people 10% of the time in their critical organs, it does not add up, i would ask god for IPR pts.

True... and if you didn't waste them on experimentation, you'd have them... quite a few of them actually But most (giving the benefit of the doubt here) of the people asking for more aren't asking because they've had major changes happen in their world.. they want more because they've used up what they received on minor changes or on tweaking their character to reuse periods of their "life" to retrain for different strengths.

Jaesic
161 NT (RK2)

[______________Yazule]

Originally posted by Turin



Dont mind Yazule, he obvioulsy has no grasp of Game Mechanics.


Fierst of all, the IPR points were to make up for PAST game change's. NOT future ones.

Secondly.

Dont punish people for making choice's based game mechanics they thought perfectly legit.

You cant just "assume" something will be changed down the road.

hey, I "assume" that beams and x3's will be nerfed soon, so I had better not use one. And if I do.. well, then im stupid cuase i should have "known better"


This logic makes sense? Please. even you cant be that short sighted.

People got a FULL IP RESET, so all "past nerfs" along with all nerfs at that time are taken by that.

they have NOT nerfed enough stuff to justify the use of 15 IPR for any single class.

People always throw out insults to start their argument when they have nothing to back up their opinion with.

Show me how you used a full IPR and 15 IPR points due to nerfs (not you twinking/tweeking your toon)... go ahead, I dare ya

[Atremis]

Originally posted by Hailieglade

My reasoning for requesting IPR pts is simple: you're changing the way a LARGE percentage of your subscriber's play your game, and making it no longer viable and at best, no longer efficient. this isnt just a nerf, but a complete change to your game dynamic. tell me if im wrong, but tell me why.

Just because a large number of people played the game that way does not mean it should be the *only* way to play the game.

The (full) IPr given when OE was introduced was necassary because that changed fundamental aspects of the game in terms of both PVP and PVM. The LLTS, while an item that most wanted or had, was not an item that should have been the deciding factor in who wins a PVP battle. In my view it ties into their crit nerf; taken together it takes the emphasis away from critical hits in PVP, because as things are right now crits are basically the only thing that determine the outcome of PVP fights.

As for giving back a few IPr points, well, I think FC intended for the ones gained at each title level to be used sparingly and not to just play around with lots of different setups. I've saved all of mine for just this reason.

[___________JagdTyger]

Players say "you spent your Ipr's unwisely, go play something else"

New players say "I didnt know that I shouldnt use a assault rifle on a enforcer, but why cant I? also I wasnt around when the TIPR happend"

Players say again "go play something else"

Majority says "give us a way to get more IPRs"

FC says "none is planned at the moment"

The industry says "more games are on the horizon"

FC wont say "go play something else"

Players say "I dont wanna re-roll a char thats level 105 cause Im gimped, give me a way to fix it, I know I made mistakes"

Players say "you cant get back time, but I know its just a game"

Disenchanted players say "goodbye, my time can be spent building something somewhere else"

Some Players say "good riddance"

Players point out "IPR can mean continual play and experimentation from long time players, and keep the game going, with a possible new money sink or use for tokens"

Players say "It bothers me that you want to change your character, and I'm gonna fight this because its something you want to do"

FC realizes "IPR wether by money sink or another method = continued $$$ by the majority"



Bottom line in the end of all this heated debate is that in order to have a company that offers anything, you have to have happy customers. I remember when back in UO when skills couldnt be locked in place, players that worked to keep those skills at 100 fought those that wanted a way to lock the skill in place after they reached that magic number, if anyone here ever played UO you know who won that debate.

Jagdtyger

[______________Yazule]

when UO changed (power hour, trammel). All my buddies quit, hence I still have an active account (just cant let Yazule of catskills shard die) and dont even have the game installed on my pc).


I miss the "good old days" of UO.

You are right though Jayde, I have not said it in a few posts, but I wont win this fight, funcom will hand out IPR's at some point. I just make sure that the counterpoint is there on the OFF chance that there is actually a majority that DONT want "infinite IPR's".

Just because most of the people on the BOARDS want them (and I see a fair share of people that agree with me postin too) does in NO WAY mean that most of the players want them.

[___________JagdTyger]

Yeah I still have my UO account active, I was there since beta, and cant let go of Emma Frost and her castle on ice island atlantic, and I to dont have it installed, thank god for auto refresh of houses. I left when they put in those Power Scrolls that made being a GM in a skill now worthless, so they had me for 5 years of game play.

I do see all your points tho, but also I remember when I was a newb all the players I first met told me to use different things and like a sucker I did, Im an advent and someone had me use a Nova Flow Then a Rifle then Pistols then I settled into Melee, capped heavy weps, and brawl which is a ugly ammount of IPs for a Adv, infact when im done at level 200 I will have very little ips left over. I used all my Ip reset points, and have 4 saved since level 150, im at 166 now. I also know that people complain about cookie cutter chars, and if people had the ability to experiment a lil more then I think we would see a bit more variation, my alt char I re-rolled 4 times before I settled into a system I liked, and that was a trader using an x-3, I wouldnt want to do that again, being I re-rolled her at level 30, 33, 40, and 45. As for my main Jagdtyger she recovered from tons of mistakes but I wouldnt mind having those Iprs back and no way Im gonna re-roll her, while right now im in no way in need of them, and have the rest of my Ips planned out, if the nerf bat comes my way I could be in bad shape.

At level 200 theres no way up again and no way to get more Iprs, so there can be a dead end for some players. Ive seen two systems suggested, and while I was for the Token suggestion, Im starting to lean towards the money sink suggestion, money sinks in mmorgs can be a good thing. Anything you have to work for isnt bad, I do not think they should just hand out a total ip reset with the patch. If ya want it work for it, just need a way to work for it.

What are your feelings on a money sink or someother way to work for 1 ipr point at a time Yaz?

Jagdtyger

[Jaesic]

Originally posted by Yazule
You are right though Jayde, I have not said it in a few posts, but I wont win this fight, funcom will hand out IPR's at some point. I just make sure that the counterpoint is there on the OFF chance that there is actually a majority that DONT want "infinite IPR's".

And a good time to give them would be a couple at the release of the booster and a couple at the release of the expansion (based on title, of course). Not for something like this (especially this few patches since the total reset).

Jaesic
161 NT (RK2)

[______________Yazule]

well superslag has it best. If you gonna get an IPR point it should cost!

My theory on this is 1 million/ level of char for one IPR. Yes I know, that is really really steep, but look at the inflation! I am sure they know exactly how many creds there are on the servers (or at least close). Once they get rid of the money problem then they can make it more reasonable, like maybe 500k/level of char for an IPR.

Yes this is still a HIGH number, meaning you have to WANT an IPR to get one.

I am sure most would think I am being very extreme in this but then again I dont want them handing them out

There is no money sinks at all in the game atm, that is A BIG problem, all the money goes from player to player and never sinks into anything. (5 million for a yalm is nothing compaired to the creds earned per day) In UO it was housing, and replacing weapons as they decayed, and armor, and potions, DISPOSABLES... in AO there is ... err nanopacks and stims and heal packs and ammo... all but ammo people get in missions at high levels anyway!!!!! (cant buy a Q126-200 pack/stim in stores, how dumb).

I also think that SOME TIME...in the FUTURE when they have nerfed enough to validate using 15 IPR then they can give more, I wont complain, I will actually support it.

It has been only like 5 months since the first full IPR, so peeps complainin (and having 15 ipr) have averaged 3 ipr a month, and there has only been 2 patches :/.

They are using IPR like candy. That is my problem.

I can see your point with the new characters. I rerolled 3 "mains" so far (advent, NT, and now enforcer... started a doc I love so probably on #4 now) total levels between all 3 is about 250. I get bored and I roll up something different. That is how mmog's are (you know, you played UO). New players got it easier than us, they can F up about 5 times between 1 and 150 and still not need to reroll though.


The "I started and messed up cause I didnt know the game" argument is the only resonable one I know of. Thing is whenever I play an online game (mmog) I know my first char is a throw away.... if the game was so easy I got it right the first time I would probably be bored and gone within a year!

in the end IPR= reset button for toons.

this leaves a bad taste in my mouth