Beacon Warping people into Camelot

[_______________Sjoko]

Originally posted by Kasasthania
I still would like to see answer questions:

a) Clans have way to raffle loot: what happens when someone who died wons a nodrop item ?
((rise corpses timeout to hours, remove all nodrop-tags from Tara items, allow people to beacon warp to collect their win or some new way ?))

b) what if beacon warped is already at same PF ((ie warping loot holder from Tara to 100% gas)) ?

Sorry I was so caught up in the elk loving that I didn't see this part (jk)

A) You can't get it, an exploit now, congrats
b) exploit now, congrats

The only solution now would be making Taraloot droppable.

[Warlock]

Originally posted by Sjoko
Sorry I was so caught up in the elk loving that I didn't see this part (jk)

Well at least someone is getting love here cuz it sure aint the Engies

[Cz]

Thank you, Max, for being constructive and calm. You pretty much cover all concerns, and I'll answer them one by one.

Originally posted by Maximilian
- Using Beacon Warp in Camleot will get me banned?, a nano that was introduced to strengthen my profession? - No warning?

I never said that. Few exploits get you banned / suspended straight away, and this is not one of them. Duping, and spreading exploits, is generally what gets you banned.

- How am I supposed to know this, if I don't read this board or check for Cz posts regurlarly? (Highly dangerous)

An ARK or GM will tell you if you do it.

- I see the possibility to abuse this nano in this specific situation, but to use the biggest gun you have to protect a minority of your players (the people that visit Camelot have to be the minority, otherwise we would have a playing community to small to persist) seems to be exaggerated to me.

That same minority of players are those using this, so that minority is what's in turmoil over the warping in the first place.

- As I understand the nano, every member of my team has the right to be warped to my position, whenever it is necessary. What should be wrong about bringing a team member back to the spot of action after he got killed in a PvP fight?

Nothing, unless you're in Camelot.

- I assume, you are not able to close all the possible loopholes, so deactivating the nano in this dungeon seems a reasonable solution. But banning people for the use of their nanos is not the way to react - shouldn't be, never (I want MA banned for using their crit buffs, it clearly reduces my game fun ...).

Never said we would ban people for it. If you get told by a GM or ARK to stop, and still do it, you're asking for trouble though.

Camelot will be only the first place, the others will follow. What if a low level wants to visit/see the dungeon?

Who said others will follow? I didn't. Not saying it won't happen though, as I don't know.

Flames and other immature stuff will be ignored.

Indeed.

I've removed a bunch of posts from this thread. If you are unable to be more constructive than what those posts showed, please simply refrain from posting.

[Snuble]

If your fighting for the engie community Warlock, your fighting the wrong battle in the wrong arena. Perhaps you're missing the point? Its *players* that don't want warping inside the castle. Simple as that.

[Cz]

Originally posted by Stoechius
Cz, is LDing or logging out in Camelot also going to be considered an exploit?

Not at all. When you return, you follow the normal rules for the playfield, just like zoning in.

[Cz]

Originally posted by Svpernaut
IT IS NOT OUR FAULT!

Never said it was. It's your fault if you do it now, and get into trouble though.

[Cz]

Originally posted by Satansfx
Oh wait i know why....cuz some of the guild leaders of the "big" guilds are ARK's and they have the most "pull" with what happens in the world of AO...

If you have any names, feel free to forward them to me. If not, I suggest you stop making unfounded claims like this.

[Warlock]

Originally posted by Snublefot
If your fighting for the engie community Warlock, your fighting the wrong battle in the wrong arena. Perhaps you're missing the point? Its *players* that don't want warping inside the castle. Simple as that.

No its a _small minority_ of the players (i.e. the high level PvP'ers).

So if the Engineer community (a small minority of players) wanted all the other profs nerfed so we were good in PvP against them our wish would be granted.

Or Grid Armour nerfed, or Nulity, or Alphas or any other 'profession defining' ability used in PvP which 'upsets the PvP experience'. Hey all you PvP'ers lag me when I go to Camelot I think you all should keep out when I go there and any one who enters will be petitioned as an exploiter.

Can you see how this argument stands up to 0 scrutiny. Same principle, different set of circumstances.

But hey its only another Engineer nerf, thats ok, no one cares about them, they are not important.

[Jynne]

I have to agree with the engineers. This is the wrong solution to the wrong problem.

The real problem is the rare and best-of-its-kind loot that can only be obtained from Tarasque. The reason that it is a problem is greed. People will go to lengths to secure that loot for themselves, including mucking about with the game's mechanics, and including complaining to Funcom about a valid use of a profession's valid ability. This 'request' from players is not about making PvP there fun, or fair. It's all about trying to secure loot.

The proof is simple: nothing is stopping us from PvPing in the castle during the hours between Tarasque spawns. It's still there when the lizard isn't up. It's still 25%. It's open 24/7. We can go play PvP for fun in the basement all day. But we don't, do we?

Because the loot is the point.

[Plasmatorch]

Cz I have only one question for you

and I am being totaly serious about this even though it may sound a little sarcastic to you.

When is FC finaly going to remove the engineer profession from the game instead of nerfing to death

Now this is a very valid question and the reasons for it are simple
1. patch 14.4 we all know what that did
2. the fact that we are good at nothing
3. the fact that the engineer brings nothing to a group
4. the fact that the engineer brings nothing to Rubi-ka society as a whole.

Now since you have graceously decided that using Beacon wapr is an exploit in camelot. You have now excluded every engineer from getting to be abel to to join in any tara raid. since we all know that an engineer can't do much damage and the bot just loves to hump every wall in sight. so I can see only two situations coming form this if any engineer does get to participate since when it comes to a raid on tara people will only want classes that can do damage or heal and an engineer can't do either.
1. they feel sorry for him and ask him to join
2. the engineer wanders in by himself without a team

So in conclusion this has just been another nerf to engineers plain and simple. I myself am actualy looking foward to the one we get handed in the booster pack it is almost becoming a game now to see if I can guess what is going to get nerfed about my chosen profession.

oh and Cz if you can't leave a message here you can contact me in game by the name 'Plasmatorch' I will be waiting for your answer

[Cz]

Originally posted by PlasmaTorch
When is FC finaly going to remove the engineer profession from the game instead of nerfing to death

I have no belief that the question is serious.

[Krabbus]

Can you, Cz, please explain me how warping a teamember from one spot to a spot 2 feets to the left will be an exploit? This will not make the zone laggy because the member was in the zone from the beginning!!!!

[Maximilian]

Thanks, Cz, for the answers.

The rules are clear: No Beacon Warp in Camelot until further notice.

Assuming most of us understand the reasoning and assuming furthermore that this call is a temporary solution I would like to ask a few more questions. Hope you find the time to answer it.

- Is this indeed a temporary solution?

- Is Funcom trying to find / working on another solution for the problem? (to many players in Camelot at once) to please their high level PvP players in a different way than threatening a whole profession not to use one of it's best nanos. [Maybe I could have used other wording, but I still think it is unfair - punish those who abuse it, not those who play conform to the rules.]
I expect the 'value' of Engis will drop drastically after this decision (for a certain playfield), thereby making it even harder for us to get Tara loot.

Btw., how often have you been invited with one of your three Engis for Tara raids?

So long,

Max(imilian)

[Valoren]

Originally posted by Vergil
Agreed, Hermy.

That's why many of us have asked for faction limits, instead of player limits.

A limit of say 50 Omni ,50 Clan, 50 Neutral (example numbers) would be a good solution.

No faction gets blocked, and provided that beacon gets disabled when the PF faction limit is met, then engies get to beacon dead allies back in, up to the limit of the faction.

I agree with Vergil 100% on this issue. It would not be a perfect fix but it would help ****en things up some at least. Instead of 100 bored omnis or clans sitting in box room. Fix beacon add faction limits per gs. And make the max faction enough so all 3 can be max and you can have an enjoyable, playable, less lag playfield experience.

[Cz]

Originally posted by Krabbus
Can you, Cz, please explain me how warping a teamember from one spot to a spot 2 feets to the left will be an exploit? This will not make the zone laggy because the member was in the zone from the beginning!!!!

If we make exceptions to the rule, people will claim they didn't exploit, but used Beacon Warp it the legal way. "I didn't see that he died and went to another playfield!"

So we make a simple and clear rule, which people can't really misunderstand or get around.

Max, it's a temporary solution, but the permanent one might be to block Beacon Warp for Camelot, so the effect will be the same.

When it comes to the value of Engineers, I'm looking into that. No, I will most likely not have anything to tell you in a while, but I am bugging people about it.

And none of my Engis have been to Camelot at all yet.

[Valoren]

Originally posted by Cz

Max, it's a temporary solution, but the permanent one might be to block Beacon Warp for Camelot, so the effect will be the same.

To clarify you mean block Beacon Warp for Camelot *if* the GS is maxed?

Thanks

[Cemetarygate]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Stoechius
Cz, is LDing or logging out in Camelot also going to be considered an exploit?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Cz
Not at all. When you return, you follow the normal rules for the playfield, just like zoning in.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In regard to logging out...

What if 60 people entered the castle, 20 logged out, 20 more people entered the castle and the 20 log back on? Thus, having 80 people in the dungeon.

There was rumor of such happening just a short time ago. Just wondering if Funcom will police this as well?

[Krabbus]

Originally posted by Cz
Max, it's a temporary solution, but the permanent one might be to block Beacon Warp for Camelot, so the effect will be the same.

This is another idea of a permament fix. Lets say the limit is 3 people just to make it easy. Lets say 6 people are trying to enter Camelot and person 1,3 and 4 enter first and the first GS remember the 3 persons that enter this zone, so if one of them dies or went out of the dungeon (eg person 3) will the GS still be locked for person 3 for about 10 minutes. This will prevent people to fill up the GS.

This idea will make the BW work as it should, you can warp whoever you will if the person is registered in the right GS (or none). If the person you are trying to warp is in another GS will the warping not be allowed. Zoning out of the dungeon will remove the person from the locklist until he enters again either by warp or walking.



I hope you see what I'm thinking about. Each GS in a dungeon has a list of persons to check against regarding warps. And the GS will keep the list until you walk out of the zone or a timelimit has been exceeded (dies and don't want to enter the dungeon again should remove you from the list). So a person in another GS than the engineer will not be warped, but if he's outside will he be warped if there's enough free spots in the current GS. This should be very easy to program.

[Valoren]

Originally posted by Cemetarygate
quote:
In regard to logging out...

What if 60 people entered the castle, 20 logged out, 20 more people entered the castle and the 20 log back on? Thus, having 80 people in the dungeon.

There was rumor of such happening just a short time ago. Just wondering if Funcom will police this as well?

I would think it if you go ld or die, it should reserve your spot for a few minutes and no one can fill it, but if you don't logon to the playfield within a few minutes, when you do finally logon it should throw you into the next open GS if the current GS is full.

And to fix the ALT's holding open all the GS's problem, you could say if you login to an empty GS, it would throw you into one of the ones with people in it unless there are none, then it would put you in the 1st gs. If someone is holding GS 4 with a logged off alt, when they log back in, it would drop them back in one of the active open GS's or gs1...

[___________Svpernaut]

Originally posted by Cz

Never said it was. It's your fault if you do it now, and get into trouble though.

Cz, you contradicted yourself there bud... i said "it's not our fault" and you said "never said it was." yet your next sentence you said "It's your fault if you do it now..." so intern you are seeing it as OUR FAULT for using a nano that we use every day!

You are placing the blame of the GS overcrowding on one profession and one profession only! high level pvp'ers and low level gankers log out in the GS and have alts log out in GS's do that to "fool" the system if the GS is too full or inaccessible because of the lack of players in the previous GS's.

I could CARE LESS if this is "temporary" solution, because it is the wrong one. once again, stop placing blame on the players because it is the fault of your programmers that this is a problem not us. you have known of this problem for months, yet you have left it up to the players in the past to regulate... and it shouldn't be our problem.

every player pays a fee every month so they can log in, play, and not have to worry about crappy programming, because they are PAYING for this service and "know" that the game will be updated and monitored so they don't have to worry about it... but that is not the case as we all know. we pay to play, and the regulations are set on the players on items we use everyday because there haven't been updates for problems that have been known about for months. and if you think that the "gentlemen rule" would have lasted long, then you must be blind... have you seen how much tara loot sells for? the lowest one sells for an average of 50 million credits, and the highest being 800 million or so... and lets not even get started on how much it goes for on eBay.

greed is the drive behind Camelot, as was said earlier no one goes there to PVP in the 17 hours when Tarasque is not present. everyone who goes is after the chance of getting a high price, highly wanted item.

Once again, i want to state what i've stated all along... I DO think that overcrowding a GS is a problem, so let’s fix the problem as a WHOLE instead of singling out engineers. make it impossible to log out in Camelot, as there are usually 20-30 people logging into Camelot during every raid who were logged out there... which adds to the ever growing lag problem just as much if not more then beacon warping. do i know this problem to be true? YES! i've seen many a clanner and omni log into a GS that was locked. let no players under level 100 get in, as they couldn't use the loot if they won to begin with. i could go on for a long while about more nonprofession nerfing ways to cut down on lag, just like people have done above, but i shouldn't have to.

obviously funcom has no idea how tough it is to be a high level engineer. the only thing that makes us desirable to a Camelot team is the fact that we can warp. i have NEVER been asked or recruited on a Camelot team unless i was needed to warp, or i was with guild members (and i've been to just about every omni raid for the past 3 weeks). Sure i cast the highest slayer, and sure in transference and with MA buffs my attack rating is up over 1300, but i'm still not wanted, as no engie is. why have an engie on your team when you can have any other profession that can easily out damage engies? we have no heals, calms, roots, or buffs of any kind that make us desirable... all the buffs we have are easily replaceable by a stronger profession.

Cz, i understand you’re trying to help the playing community in the laggiest, most crowded playfield in the entire game... but nerfing the only desirable engie trait is not the way to go about doing it. you know how engies feel, we get know love... you have pages and pages of rants in the engie forums about that, with very little praise. so this is just another way for engies to be pissed about being ignored and trampled on because we are not important. I promise you if you told MA's they couldn't cast crit buffs, and enforcers they could cast essence in Camelot that there would be a bigger outcry then the one you see here... but since there are very few high level engineers that still play you hear from the 20 or so of us that still care about our profession.

the bottom line is, you have to do something about the lag in Camelot, and banning the use of a nano is not the way to do it. fixing your programming is. so we have to suffer the 2 or 3 months it will take your programmers to fix this program properly even though they have known for over a year about the lag problem in Camelot. beacon warp has many uses in Camelot besides GS overcrowding. Say warping a teammate from the 100% zone, to the secure box room so they don't have to fight through opposition to join their team... or warping someone who won nodrop loot yet were killed in the battle... or warping people into a GS with no one in it. ALL of these things are the reason that beacon warp has been around for, not GS overcrowding.

basically all of our gripes come down to respect, and the fact that every high level engineer feels that funcom doesn't give them that.