Money sink (Funcom... This is mighty important)

[Holinor]

Well.... I have been thinking this last week, while I was making a new char for myself, just for the hell of it. My thoughts have been busy mostly with the completly wrecked economy on Rubi Ka, why it is as it is, what can be done about it, and what it would result in.

Well, first of all, the economy is almost beyond repair, I think most can agree on that. Items anyone can get a hand on are sold for hundreds of thousands if not millions all the time, no matter what level the chars are, or what ql. At times, its cheaper to buy ql200 items than ql75-100, and no one finds that strange. So, Funcom should really think about WHY:

Making a new char today, and knowing how the game works, I noticed something funny. From lvl1 and up to... any level, I do not buy ANYTHING from shops, except implant parts. Nothing, nada not a single thing. The only money sink we have in game is the shops, spend our money to get equipment, but there is not reason to use the shops, because all equipment you can get from missions or as loot, and of the things you want, the really good stuff 100% is loot or reward ONLY, no chance to get it in shop! So, from lvl1 up until lvl100, I only get my implants in shop, the rest I got on mission for, solo or team depending on ql I need, or beat some boss somewhere or do a dungeoncrawl somewhere, but NOTHING is bought. After lvl 100, shops do not exist at all, 100% of what you need,every single item you might need is found outside shops. This is not only stupid, it is insane to have an economy but nowhere to spend yer money, except to other players, or find it yerself.

Now, how do we fix this? How do we get an economy going again, and people actually start spending their money? It is so easy....

First of all, raise the cap of shops, ql125 is just way too low, and people use ql125 long before lvl100. To have over 50% of a characters levels without a money sink is asking for trouble.

Second: Throw everything you have into the shops! I mean everything except Unique or NoDrop, all Nanos, all weapons, all armor, all equipment, and all tradeskill items, get them ALL into the shops as soon as possible! It will not mean more people use them than now, they will not loose their value or whatever the reason is you hold them back, people today get them all anyway, because they all run mission after mission 24/7, because that is the only way to get any equipment to use, so they or their friends or their group WILL find what they look for. But what it would do is first of all, remove an annoyance, and angry costumers, because they do not have to do boring repetitive runs time and again, just to get that item, they could check the price tag, it would be expensive and they themselves would have to decide if they want to sacrifice something else to buy that thing they want. People want to enjoy the game, not get irritated. When you tell them: "We do not want you to spend yer ingame credits on anything in here, we want you to spend your Real Life time to get it" Guess yerself if they enjoy it, or get irritated.
Second, the money sink. People would suddenly have a lot less money to play around with, money would start to mean something again. Trade channel would get a bit quieter, but not much, because suddenly it would not be used to sell ql10 items for 400-800k, but people would sell really expensive items they have found a bit cheaper than shop price instead, in other words, a more sane trade than today.
Third, people could choose themselves what items they want to use, what nanos they want to have, what tradeskills they want to work with, by how much money they have to spend. Today, you get it all, and I do mean all. My Adventurer for example have 3-4 copies of all these special Adv nanos that he can not buy in shops, up to ql180, but he have hardly any of the shop ones, because he do not spend money on those when he knows he will find them soon enough.

For gods sakes think about it. First reaction will be a lot of people that has not spend a single credit in a store for months, to go on a shopping spree, so yes, first reaction would be a lot of buying stuff they have not found before this change. But in a month that is over, and all new chars after this will come into a different game, with a much better workign economy, and most importantly, a much better game.

[Holinor]

OK I add to my own post, but Just thought of how to change the ql cap in shops, to give an example:

Beginners shop: ql1-59
Advanced shop: ql60-119
Supershop: ql120-180

ql180-200 could still be mission only, no problem, but you can imagine how much money would sink into the shops and disappear from game world with a setup like this, for starters.

If you then add that all normal items are installed in shops as well, people would spend millions upon millions that would disappear from the game world, agents and fixers would suddenly find people do not pay them millions to run for an item, but instead spend that money in a shop, taking about as long time as the mission to find, and those millions are gone.

This would be a tremendous money sink, and help the economy, not to normal levels perhaps but at least very close.

Just think about it, ok? That idea you had on your meeting might have sounded like a good idea, but believe me, this is a lot better.

[Skyclimber]

My belief...good idea
but reset all the money...and I mean ALL money
put all char at 0 credits and start all over as well
sure some of you prob have so much money I can start to dream about it but at the moment it is crap

[____________Dominata]

Originally posted by Skyclimber
My belief...good idea
but reset all the money...and I mean ALL money
put all char at 0 credits and start all over as well
sure some of you prob have so much money I can start to dream about it but at the moment it is crap

ROFL! That would be popular, wouldn't it.
You can not make all people suffer from the exploits of a few. What about the players who have earned their money all by themselves? 'Sorry, but we are nerfing creds'...

Better to give all 50 million cred to start out with, it won't mean crap to high rollers but the world to low to middle levels.

[Holinor]

A money reset would be nice yes, but not possible to implement without irritating even more people, or.. 100% of the costumers. But with raised shop caps, and all the mission stuff installed in shops, people would burn all those millions in a week or two anyway, and they would be gone from game forever.
Its easy, when they have a chance to buy something kewl they can brag about, they will buy it, no matter price tag. So they buy that expensive thingie, they go out and scream in Omni Ent: "Look at me, I have an expensive thingie", they notice that no one cares one bit about it, and goes back to the shop to see if they can get an even more expensive thingie to brag about. In a week, they have bought a lot of expensive thingies they can not use with all their chars, no one has cared at all about it, and there they sit, alone and unnotcied with really expensive thingies in their backpacks, and several millions have disappeared.

As I said, in the first week people would go on a shopping spree, but in this case that is a GOOD thing, because it means they clean up the economy themselves, without outside help.

Now, the "Give 50 million to everyone" I will not even talk about. A typical "Give me more stuff" post that people camouflage as "helping the game" but its all "help me". I am talking about REMOVING money from the economy, not adding money.

[skybert]

Originally posted by Skyclimber
My belief...good idea
but reset all the money...and I mean ALL money
put all char at 0 credits and start all over as well
sure some of you prob have so much money I can start to dream about it but at the moment it is crap

resetting all credits out there would upset a ton of players.
Including me.
Now, I don't have hundreds of millions of credits, but I've worked for my money! Why should I suffer even more due to exploiters?

...and if they reset the credits, what about the people that has stockpiled valuable items in backpacks in their banks. they would be the richest persons on RubiKa. In a snap!
I know that if FC announces that they will reset cash, I will spend every last credit I got on stuff I can sell to shops after the reset. Bet I'm not the only one thinking just that.

Having more stuff to buy in the shops is one sopllution. With the new yalms coming soon, it's a start. If the ground combat vehicles are worth using, it's also a nice start.

Towers and mining 'camps' will prolly cost something to build/buy/maintain. But I expect a profit from those as well, so where that will take us, I don't know.

Then again, resetting creds might straighten up some economy problems..... *sigh*

[Holinor]

We can not see some new Yalms and combat vehicles as a money sink, because they are one time buys. No upgrading, no changing, you make the money, you buy it, you forget it. One time items, are not even remotely enough to clean up the economy.
Its the fact that a character can go from lvl1-200 without ever buying a single thing in shops except implant clusters that is the problem with the economy. Not only that he can, it is better, faster and easier to not buy them in shops, but pick them up in missions that is the problem. So there is really nowhere for money to disappear except to other players, just making the problems worse and worse by each day passing. I mean, almost anyone that has had a char for a month or two, knows by now how to get a Yalm before lvl50. After this moment, they do not need anything at all from shops. Add a few new vehicles, and a small percentage of the money now would disappear same day they are added, then we have the same problem just continuing and worseing again, each day.

ONLY way to stop this trend, is to give players the possibilty to use the shops as intended. You need a weapon, where do you go? You need a full set of armor, where do you go? You want to trade skill, where do you go? You need a nano, where do you go? Heck, even at lvl2, right from the training area, I take a mission and get any nanos I need, several levels beyond what i can use at lvl2, and armor parts and weapons as well. And like that it continues up until lvl200.

Someone at Funcom MUST see that this is a problem, and that the economy NEED shops to Spend money in, not only Get money from.

[Elbo]

Resetting credits would have just a slight irrittation to those over 150. Over 150. You can blitz for certain items and make upwards of 650K each mission. 3 Mission rolls takes 3 mins. running the missions 7 mins. So every 10 mins your up 1.95M so you could make 11.5M in a hour blitzing. do that once a day for 5 days and your looking at the same problem.

I as on my MA and some freak wanted to charge me 500K for Mark of Risk. I can easily pay for it but I told him that a lvl 50 nano wasnt that rare and he and his entire guild can go straight to hell. (I make alot of things on RK2 so banning a entire guild will affect them sooner or later)

[_______________Ylara]

Originally posted by Skyclimber
My belief...good idea
but reset all the money...and I mean ALL money
put all char at 0 credits and start all over as well
sure some of you prob have so much money I can start to dream about it but at the moment it is crap

I can see where you are coming from, but I would have to agree that the 99% of players who have never exploited or knowingly taken duped credits should not be punished for the misdeeds of a few.

I'd also have to point out that even if my credits got wiped, well, I'd just go out and make them again. No biggie. If I work hard, I'm making 10 million a day. (And that would just be soloing missions and selling junk). It's not much fun, but it brings the money it.

The only thing that would really work would be ie tax. A certain percentage deducted from your account every day. Or, instead of mission only items, have shop only items. Items that are very attractive, but only available from shops at a high price.

Ylara.

[Holinor]

Taxes? You think a daily tax is better than shops people actually use? Ok, if you say so.

I am beginning to understand WHY nothing changes to the better in this game, in the 16 months I have played. So far I have seen no one support my idea of working shops in game, and stop missions as the only valid way to get equipment. Not a single one thinks it is a good idea, instead you write down ideas you come up with yourself on the spur of the moment. Not better, not in any way helping anyone, but its not important if we get a change right, its more important that YOU say something?

Fine by me, I am leaving again. We can have the game as is, I do not care, my agent get me anything I need. I wanted to show a solution to a problem. No one showed any interest. So.... Have your problem. But then, stop complaining about the game, if all that is important is that YOU write something no matter how stupid (Like "give 50 million to everyone"), not support someone elses idea, good or not.... Then you have nothing to complain about. Because you have all so far said my idea sucks, since you do not support it in any way, so then it will never happen. One voice is not enough for change. 5000 voices saying 5000 different things do not create change. 5000 saying one thing can create change.

Thank you for supporting it.

[secondkenlon]

I'm seeing a big money sink in the Shield Disablers for Notum Wars, if they price them appropriately. .

Go FC! Woo!

[____________Dominata]

What Kenlon says and more. The towers and everything surrounding it gameplay wise will be a huge money sink.
Even RL wise it is a money sink, not that has to make you happy, Holinor...

[___________Fellowman]

Hi there,

I feel you are on the right track with trying to get more people to use the shops. But you yourself said you dont buy anything from the shops, cause it all available as mission loot.

I think Ylara hit the nail on the head, not with the Tax (everyone hates taxes) but with shop only items instead of Boss/mission only items.

Imagine if things like the X-3,CHS or Grid Armour were only found in shops at outragous prices....

Now lets say these new "shop only" items suffered from usage decay. You can quickly see that this is the way to make people spend credits.

ie You buy your lv 200 X-3 for say 10 million, it last for say 2000 rounds of ammo before it needs repairing. So you head off to buy your "X-3 maintenance kit QL200" for 5 million credits. Then you trot off and get Superslag to fix your gun.

The decaying weapons is almost like a stealth tax. (kinda like the national lottery in the UK)

Now lets say a Fixer wants Grid armour MK I, he can buy it in the shops for a measly 50 million.
want a GA MK II 150 million, MK III 250 million, MK IV 400 million.

If things like this were implemented we would soon see the money filter out of the economy.

These number were just examples to get a point across, dont go flaming me

Fellowman

[frakk2k]

I sorta agree on the stores; it is almost like ao was never meant to go beyond level 125?

[______________Yazule]

who in their right mind would buy one!

omg, have you LOOKED at the requirements on them? You bet your last 2 trillion credits that I wont be dumping IP into Veh Air just for a sporty yalm.


how dumb, make the yalms cost 100 million credits, and give them a requirement of 70 or some such so thta people will ACTUALLY BUY THEM.

IP's are WAY more valuable than credits

[Portulis]

Interesting discussion.

I have a 196 toon, a 144 toon and several lower ones. I use the shops all the time.

1. Ammo. Not very often but I do buy ammo there.

2. Nanochargers, First Aid stims, etc. My doc buys tons of nanochargers. Sure, I use some mission found ones but I rarely have enough of those.

3. Nanos. Ok, after you reach level 110 shop nanos don't hold any more interest, but all the newb nanoprograms I generally buy in the stores. Missioning for each nano you need can get quite tedious.

4. Armor. Hey, sometimes you see a piece of armor in the store and buy it for your noob character. Just think of all that expensive carb armor, somebody is buying the sheets.

I use the stores frequently.

Actually, I think leaving some items out of the stores leaves some challenge to the game.

Now, when I need money, I do the mission runs, but my main toon rarely has over 10 mill on him at any one time...

[Cemetarygate]

There is a money sink. It's called lack of an item reimbursement tool.

You're level 125, crash, lose all your stuff and Funcom won't reimburse your items. You could mission to build back up your inventory, but it's harder missioning naked at 125 than level 1. So, you'll have to spend money to replace your items. There's the money sink.

[Nitefix]

I agree...one stupid server hiccup cost me 2.5 mill from a full set of 125 implants that were in a backpack that I traded. That only took like 1 sec for me to sink those credits.

[Animosity]

Money sinks...

they have to be voluntary
... Cover charges at bars
... uber bars with uber cover charges
... taxi rides to missions
... real apartment upgrades

To fix the economy
... impliment item degregation - that way there will be a severe pull for items. Right now many people just pass the same item down to other people in their guild because they have moved on, rather than the item became more and more worn down.
... keep the shop system the way it is, make an Uber shop that is hard to get to, expensive to shop at, but has all the tradeskill stuff to lvl 200.
... impliment blatant money sinks, stock market, casinos, video arcades.
... impliment food effects, then everyone would pay for food on a regular basis.

and fix pet pathing first.

[engelstein]

Everything about the stuff in Notum Wars is a money sink.

If there's item decay I'm going to be seriously pissed off. Sure, maybe IRL my gun would need maintenance, but do you want me to have to clean it after every mission? Use a QL 1 Cleaning Kit on it to make sure it stays in tip-top shape? Use QL 1 Boot Polish on my boots so they stay shiny? Let's make players hungry, too. They can all buy bread and water and eat it every ten mobs.