Possible to fix economy?

[BlueApples]

The economy is hyperinflated. The price of goods is extremely high and is being sustained at those prices. I sold a grace for 6,500,000,000 credits which is absurd considering the fact the cap is 999,999,999 credits on a character. Items that sell more than a player can hold. Is there anyway to help fix this? More credit sinks? lowering credit loot? Upkeep costs for apartments and towers? I am no economist but couldn't funcom fix this problem if they wanted to?

[Footer]

The economy is hyperinflated. The price of goods is extremely high and is being sustained at those prices. I sold a grace for 6,500,000,000 credits which is absurd considering the fact the cap is 999,999,999 credits on a character. Items that sell more than a player can hold. Is there anyway to help fix this? More credit sinks? lowering credit loot? Upkeep costs for apartments and towers? I am no economist but couldn't funcom fix this problem if they wanted to?

How long have you been living under that rock for pal?

Funcom don't, and won't, make any more changes. There are far more important issues getting ignored, why do you think this (which has been a problem for a very long time) would be any different? I think the last attempt was the greedy shade cred sink. Don't expect anything else to change in the future is funcoms mo right now.

[BlueApples]

I played back in the day and just returned. I don't know what funcom's intentions or focuses are. I was just curious if its even possible at this point.

[Aeliniyah]

Is the 4bil limit on GMI sales removed or just broken now? Or was it never working as intended?

At least i thought they did something like that for the GMI last summer and after that patch you weren't supposed to be able to sell stuff for more than 4bil.

[Caloss2]

Is the 4bil limit on GMI sales removed or just broken now? Or was it never working as intended?

At least i thought they did something like that for the GMI last summer and after that patch you weren't supposed to be able to sell stuff for more than 4bil.

You can sell to a buy order of over 4bil.

[PigBrother]

There is nothing to fix !

How many times do I have to cry out loud : the fact that a GRACE is 6-7b is best for everyone, including Funcom. Let me explain ... where is the GRACE coming from in the first place ? Funcom - yep. How ? well, you buy it for 17$, but you can only buy it if your account IS PAID and not frozen. Now ... why anyone with a straight mind would buy GRACE ? To pay for 1 month ? NO (because the account is already paid). They buy it to sell it ingame for ingame creds - THE MORE you get ingame, the best GRACE is sold by funcom.
Why do you think there was that infusion of bots allowed ?? Because that infusion made the prices at alien armors to freeze at like 5-600m and this makes Billy (who has like 6b ingame now from the grace he sold) to get his toon well dressed.

Why no more special offers ? Because if you farm hard enough you pay your acc by buying grace ingame - GRACEs are sold - everyone is happy.

If with 17$ you can get 6-7b ingame creds, nobody is buying creds from cred sellers anymore or the cred sellers are forced to sell really low (not worth for them, if they dupe they get banned ... no a normal player will not be baned because he will buy GRACE with the creds he "makes" the only way to get baned is if you "make" creds and sell them for real money).

Considering this, the inflation is there to make people buy ingame creds from Funcom (indirectly ofc) ! End of story - will remain like this
And the absolute BEST part is that as long as the GRACEs are rolling the server will stay up !

P.S. want best way of farming creds - go DB2 - one run = 2-300m ... no no ... not the armor ... the INFUSERS
P.S.2 : because you that took the patience to read my tarded post I will give you a free advice : NEVER EVER compare the ingame economy to the real world economy - they are like mirror images - so alike but completely different

[rybycka]

P.S. want best way of farming creds - go DB2 - one run = 2-300m ... no no ... not the armor ... the INFUSERS

yea best way how to get ban... me and mi friend was farming DB2 more than one year few ours for day and buyng only grace and if had them about 40 just for our acc not for sale. price go up we stoped buyg and cumulate credz on gmi and if we had about 70b ong GMI, comes reward from FC PERMA ban on friend acc for (su****ious activities) one year grinding farming are gone. why becouse FC doesnt believe that there is stil some people who like farming stuff ...

[BlueApples]

There is nothing to fix !

How many times do I have to cry out loud : the fact that a GRACE is 6-7b is best for everyone, including Funcom. Let me explain ... where is the GRACE coming from in the first place ? Funcom - yep. How ? well, you buy it for 17$, but you can only buy it if your account IS PAID and not frozen. Now ... why anyone with a straight mind would buy GRACE ? To pay for 1 month ? NO (because the account is already paid). They buy it to sell it ingame for ingame creds - THE MORE you get ingame, the best GRACE is sold by funcom.
Why do you think there was that infusion of bots allowed ?? Because that infusion made the prices at alien armors to freeze at like 5-600m and this makes Billy (who has like 6b ingame now from the grace he sold) to get his toon well dressed.

Why no more special offers ? Because if you farm hard enough you pay your acc by buying grace ingame - GRACEs are sold - everyone is happy.

If with 17$ you can get 6-7b ingame creds, nobody is buying creds from cred sellers anymore or the cred sellers are forced to sell really low (not worth for them, if they dupe they get banned ... no a normal player will not be baned because he will buy GRACE with the creds he "makes" the only way to get baned is if you "make" creds and sell them for real money).

Considering this, the inflation is there to make people buy ingame creds from Funcom (indirectly ofc) ! End of story - will remain like this
And the absolute BEST part is that as long as the GRACEs are rolling the server will stay up !

P.S. want best way of farming creds - go DB2 - one run = 2-300m ... no no ... not the armor ... the INFUSERS
P.S.2 : because you that took the patience to read my tarded post I will give you a free advice : NEVER EVER compare the ingame economy to the real world economy - they are like mirror images - so alike but completely different

All I'm saying is that the economy is over-inflated so much 1 grace is 6,000,000,000. Your GMI can hold 4 and your character can hold 999,999,999. It is absurd to obtain that much credit for a grace. Not saying grace is bad or anything. Im just making note on how inflated the economy is. "There is nothing to fix" LOL you not the brightest star in the sky huh.

[PigBrother]

"There is nothing to fix" LOL you not the brightest star in the sky huh.

Not the brightest .. agreed, but for sure I don't make personal attacks to other stars that happens to have some opinions on something
*sad star now*

[McKnuckleSamwich]

Not the brightest .. agreed, but for sure I don't make personal attacks to other stars that happens to have some opinions on something
*sad star now*

Don't worry bro, you make good contributions.

[aramsunat]

The economy is what it is, just like a real economy, you could say all current economies as super inflated. It is a result of a long process of evolution and while making money out of thin air certainly influenced it (just like in a real economy) there is no turning back. Noone can "fix" it, not even governments, and while they can influence it, any drastic attempt to "fix" would make the majority unhappy. The same applies to virtual economies. Deal with it, get used to it. Imagine all creds would be obliterated and you will be piss-poor, while many others who have the capacity to obtain it more efficiently either in legit or illicit ways would become the new royalty? Is that what you want? I guess not.

Right now everyone in AO is a multimillionaire, probably even billionaire. Everyone. When everyone has much many, prices go up. Simple as that.

Edit: about the "good old days"... even with this inflated economy, AO is much more egalitarian. I remember the times when people had trouble buying nanos and implants/clusters from shops. I wouldn't call that better.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

Well, Arum is kind of right.

Economies don't get screwed over by evolution (which I presume he means, business running it's course), economies get screwed by specific isolated incidents - usually orchestrated by a controlling entity, such as a government (which can implement policy level changes) or *significant* holders of capital who, on occasion act in concert intentionally or unintentionally to create change.

One of the first major, MAJOR, arguably, the biggest collossal f*ck up of all time, was when, Nixon, in 1971, decoupled the US dollar from gold, and effectively changed the American dollar from being "gold standard" to a currency.

A currency, by definition, creates value from movement ("current" => "currency") implying, there is no inherent value. Currency by design, only has value in movement. As soon as currency doesn't move, it devalues rapidly (note the biggest problems in recent years being major solvency issues of banks - this is slightly different, but implicitly related: there was no *movement* of currency, and this caused very, very significant problems in many economies around the world).

The decoupling of the US dollar from the gold standard meant that the US treasury could literally print money.

Why would they do this?

There are a lot of reasons. Among the largest are:

* at the time, it meant that the US could borrow a LOT of money from the US treasury which the treasury printed to meet the US governments demand
* because the currency wasn't linked to a held gold amount, the treasury didn't need to acquire gold to print the money
* the increase in currency in circulation (note that "circulation" is another word indicating flow) meant that that there would be an inflation of dollars in the system, leading to future dollars being worth *less* than current dollars... WHICH MEANS:
* that the significant loans the US was taking out from the treasury would devalue, benefiting the loaner

Now, this is only one of the many very significant mistakes the US made. But you can bet that the trumpeter will likely make a few while he's in office, and he's already trying to get the Dodd Frank reform bill repealed which pretty much will throw a massive spanner into the financial system again.

Here's a reasonable summary:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-02-0...ations/8243688

[dritst]

Well, Arum is kind of right.

Economies don't get screwed over by evolution (which I presume he means, business running it's course), economies get screwed by specific isolated incidents - usually orchestrated by a controlling entity, such as a government (which can implement policy level changes) or *significant* holders of capital who, on occasion act in concert intentionally or unintentionally to create change.

One of the first major, MAJOR, arguably, the biggest collossal f*ck up of all time, was when, Nixon, in 1971, decoupled the US dollar from gold, and effectively changed the American dollar from being "gold standard" to a currency.

A currency, by definition, creates value from movement ("current" => "currency") implying, there is no inherent value. Currency by design, only has value in movement. As soon as currency doesn't move, it devalues rapidly (note the biggest problems in recent years being major solvency issues of banks - this is slightly different, but implicitly related: there was no *movement* of currency, and this caused very, very significant problems in many economies around the world).

The decoupling of the US dollar from the gold standard meant that the US treasury could literally print money.

Why would they do this?

There are a lot of reasons. Among the largest are:

* at the time, it meant that the US could borrow a LOT of money from the US treasury which the treasury printed to meet the US governments demand
* because the currency wasn't linked to a held gold amount, the treasury didn't need to acquire gold to print the money
* the increase in currency in circulation (note that "circulation" is another word indicating flow) meant that that there would be an inflation of dollars in the system, leading to future dollars being worth *less* than current dollars... WHICH MEANS:
* that the significant loans the US was taking out from the treasury would devalue, benefiting the loaner

Now, this is only one of the many very significant mistakes the US made. But you can bet that the trumpeter will likely make a few while he's in office, and he's already trying to get the Dodd Frank reform bill repealed which pretty much will throw a massive spanner into the financial system again.

Here's a reasonable summary:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-02-0...ations/8243688

Nice presentation but it isn't that simple. Anyway when you studying economical international law it is really interesting to examine how work the economical relation and how they had been build and evolved between states and international organisation liek Gatt, OMC, FMI (especially in case of BIT or multilateral one) or inside the european union.

[aramsunat]

One of the first major, MAJOR, arguably, the biggest collossal f*ck up of all time, was when, Nixon, in 1971, decoupled the US dollar from gold, and effectively changed the American dollar from being "gold standard" to a currency.

I'd like to think of that more like a double-edged sword. On the one hand decoupling from gold allowed the economy to grow faster and create more jobs (due to mainly investment - either govt. or loaning to businesses - financed out of thin air). Controlled inflation is also beneficial since people are demotivated to hold onto their money -> they spend on stuff they don't really need -> more production, GDP etc.. Obviously on the other hand it made the economy more vulnerable to busts.
I guess my country would be on Zimbabwe level now had it had to stick to gold reserves...

[dritst]

I'd like to think of that more like a double-edged sword. On the one hand decoupling from gold allowed the economy to grow faster and create more jobs (due to mainly investment - either govt. or loaning to businesses - financed out of thin air). Controlled inflation is also beneficial since people are demotivated to hold onto their money -> they spend on stuff they don't really need -> more production, GDP etc.. Obviously on the other hand it made the economy more vulnerable to busts.
I guess my country would be on Zimbabwe level now had it had to stick to gold reserves...

there is some historical event that leaded to in first hand coupling gold and money values (Breton Wood,FMI ect) and then at the end of 1970 decoupling (Nixon if i don't mistake). Vietnam war, speculative attack, trade deficit -Hayek, Friedman.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

Breton Woods system was based on the gold standard, it was a system used so international debts could be paid without accumulating other forms of moneys which wouldn't be useful to the country they were settling the debt with (hence, gold).

Decoupling the dollar made the Breton woods system obsolete.

[kindabored]

Yea and it led to the wonderful magic wand solution of Q.E. when you need those billions in a hurry to pay for those SLBMs, strategic bombers, satellite networks and stuff.
Oh and it passed the torch of money printing at whim to bail out our corporate buddies from THE-BAD-STATE-THAT-IS-VERY-BAD-AND-CORRUPT ™ , to the saintly over-enlightened figures of Goldman Sachs and central bankers , aka Goldman Sachs and Goldman Sachs people taking a temporary break from their Goldman Sachs business.
But, i am sorry what does that have to do with ao economy... like at all ? As an accountant and couple masters in economics holder i can assure you, that a crash is the only thing that would fix the ao economy, but that is overdue some decade now ... that is if the game had any future which it doesn't. At all . and logically , not only a crash but a crash followed by a entirely new currency / transaction method other than "credits".
unfortunately, ao like games with "gold" and "credit" and stuff will always be vulnerable to "currency manipulations" from which they can never recover no matter how many fail safe switches, checks and balances , consistency planning pick-ur-term-here you try to put in place/implement.
don't waste your time.

[dritst]

Breton Woods system was based on the gold standard, it was a system used so international debts could be paid without accumulating other forms of moneys which wouldn't be useful to the country they were settling the debt with (hence, gold).

Decoupling the dollar made the Breton woods system obsolete.

It is way more complex than that and it started in 1910 ish. If you want some incomplete information you can check https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bretton_Woods_system or academic memory on this subject, it is a really interessting and amazing matter.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

It is way more complex than that and it started in 1910 ish. If you want some incomplete information you can check https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bretton_Woods_system or academic memory on this subject, it is a really interessting and amazing matter.

Of course it's more complex than that. But I don't write dissertations on AO forums. We summarize complex processes to make them comprehensible to the layman. amirite?

[dritst]

Of course it's more complex than that. But I don't write dissertations on AO forums. We summarize complex processes to make them comprehensible to the layman. amirite?

You lost too much sense with summarizing and dissertations would be way too short! On serious note, when you summarize too much people will use it as general statement or cast-iron truth where as it is more subtle.

Anyway Fun fact with AO:

We had CC/CSS expensive (well more expensive than other armor CS/CM)
We had 5K * Each Vb in GMI for 5M.
We have less player
We have many player running in full awakened (minus a minority which swap armor)

Result:

CC/CSS/CM/CS same price and "expensive"
AO FTW