Mobs with pets bad

[Swing]

I have just returned from a little trip to Test, and let me tell you folks, there's trouble on the horizon. What I'm talking about here is mobs with pets. This is a bad, bad thing. Anyone who loves this game, who's put in thier time, suffered through the terrible birthing pains, slogged through the bugs and the nerfs and the awful patches, and most of all anyone who likes to solo, you owe it to yourself and to this community to go play on Test just to see this travesty.

If pet-casting mobs are allowed to pass onto Live, it will mean the end of soloing. Period. Go and see for yourself, then come back here and keep this thread alive.

DONT LET PET-CASTING MOBS GO LIVE!

[Cz]

Please try add some more information to this. I can't go to the designers with just "it's bad". Let me know what is the problem, and I'll have something more to bring to them.

Do they hit too hard? Do they have too much hits? Too much AC? Too hard to hit? What level are the pets compared to the master? Etc...

[Despana]

What I will try to do here is compile everything I've read other people saying about this, though my own views are mixed in at random.

Unmezzable: The mob pets are essentially unmezzable as the master just continually does /pet guard which breaks the mezz for some reason (p.s. does this work in pvp?). Makes any effort at crowd control virtually pointless as you have to mezz the master THEN the pet, but if you want to kill the master....

Yellow master, Deep red pet: I've heard tales from the higher-levels (I'm only level 10 on test atm) that yellow mobs are getting red pets! I'm just wondering how this is possible since self-buffed the best I can do is a green, possibly a yellow... The level of the pet needs to be equalized to the level of the mob casting it.

Instant-cast pets: How many engies do you know that at level 2 can instant cast 4 bots in a row? Ok, granted all they are doing is activating a shell, but don't you think it odd that they can have multiple of what should be a unique item? Even MPs instant activate their pets. Something is wrong here...

This is just off the top of my head. Going to go cruise around and see if I can find anything else.

[Greybear]

[Razzitazz]

I went on test as well, don't take it out. God missions are so damn boring, something like this is actually cool. Yes, though, keep the pets the same level as the master, that would be smart.

I would love to see more of things like this. Always wanted mobs to use armor/weapons in game then have a chance of dropping what they were using.

[_______________Vydas]

There's a thread on this topic on the Test Forums, with some experiences people have encountered so far. You can find that thread here:

http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...threadid=59889

[Cz]

Actually, GreyBear, I do care, but when I get several replies, where one starts with being off-topic (and a small whine), and the others give me useful information, guess which I'm gonna read...

I edited your post to have only the needed info, in case I'll point a designer here instead of making a summary myself.

[secondkenlon]

Frankly, I think the biggest problems are:

One: They chain-cast pets.

Two: Level 1 mobs cast pets, they should have to wait until the level that players do.

I dunno about higher level mobs, I havn't had any real problem with them, but I do play a fixer on test. (Root, root, kite master, kite bot, laugh gleefully. . .)

[Cz]

Originally posted by Kenlon
Two: Level 1 mobs cast pets, they should have to wait until the level that players do.

Noted, but remember that an NPCs 'level' is not the same as the profession level for player characters. The NPC 'level' is a value for its combat prowess; which level of character it should be a challenge for.

[dasampla]

Originally posted by Cz

Noted, but remember that an NPCs 'level' is not the same as the profession level for player characters. The NPC 'level' is a value for its combat prowess; which level of character it should be a challenge for.

What about them chain casting pets? I dont know about you but to me that's not a challenge that's just rediculous.

[Dhurdahl]

There are a bunch of threads on this... check the testboards also





The problem... it's two folded...





1. At really low level 1-6... one just don't have the damage to take the pet damage. The pets at that level does 12-15 with crits at 27+... and thats a tad bit much esp since we already have a mob dealing out damage to you. This gets better when you get a bit more hp and level since 1. the power of the pet becomes more balanced damage wise against the npcs, and 2) you got more hp to soak the pet damage into.


Solution can be to limit the pet spawn to npc over lvl10.





2. Multiple pet npc's in the same room. This is a real problem in the start room... 3 npc + 3 pets isn't fun to fight. Solution, make the npc type spawn be individual instead of room based as it is today.








At mid and high this isn't such a big problem since the pets are quite slow compaired against the normal npc's. Yes it's harder then before, but I would say that soldier (buffed) and Enf mobs are still harder then the pet classes to fight.





Chaincasting... well, I always ignore the pet until I have killed the npc itself. so I don't have a problem with that.. Sure instacast/chaining is a bit annoying, but as long as you know about it, it is possible to handle it.



Calming pet while fighting npc.... haven't manage to get this to work... they always issue a new guard command and thus breaking the calm..

Pets attacking after it's master dies... yeah they do... until you run a few rooms and looses them... then they deaggro.


Aka, they need a bit of a tweaking but there isn't anything majorly wrong with them

[Lhylhy]

I've been always wonder why mobs didnt cast their pets in past.

Now they 'll be abble to... i tested it on dev server.
Yes, it's more hard now....but its fun !

When u go in room with 2,3,4 mobs, its the same situation.

More strategic fighting will come, its fine, i like it ! keep this idea....

[Cz]

Originally posted by Envane
What about them chain casting pets? I dont know about you but to me that's not a challenge that's just rediculous.

Already posted by two others.

I just commented on the NPC level part because that is a common misunderstanding.

[Mrevil]

I really do...

Why shouldn´t those mobs have their rightful pets? If they are not supposed to have their pets, as players can, then we might as well remove MA-mob and enf-mobs ability to fight.

Well, at lest thats my 2 cents...

So i say - Give the mobs their pets...

[_______________Vydas]

Well, regardless of if we like it or not, it is likely to happen. So, it might be a good idea for all that are interested in this aspect to actually play some on Testlive and give input on how it is working. The theory and the implementation are different things, sometimes .

[Warlock]

This isnt a bad idea, it just needs balancing (which is what test is for after all).

AFAIK Pets can be mezzed but the master needs to be mezzed first (and this would really be no different if mezzes worked on other players), pets dont always stop attacking when the master dies, and this may or may not be intentional

Yes, the pet chain casting is a problem (only because MOBs do not follow the nano pool and casting time rules that players do)

Yes, pet strength is a problem (I want to either see the Engineer get masteries of an MP MOB first, or I should be able to wait 30 mins for it to run out :-) ). MOB pets should be equivalent to self buffed pets (at best)

Yes, the number of pet using MOBs in the same room is a problem

It just needs balancing

-edit-
It would appear I can no longer spell :-)

[_______________Chace]

Can I pose a dumb question?

Why are you folks killing the pets first? It's obvious that the pets are simply additional damage for those mobs that had them, and that killing the mob is what stops the damage. Killing the pet doesn't get you experience, and just brings out another pet.

Which were the weakest mobs before this change? 'Crats and engies. I have heard many people remark, "Tee hee, a crat mob. I'm glad to have something easy after that enforcer." Why not tough them up?

My only objection (and it's not a loud one, and yes I made a character on test to try it out) is that the MP mobs weren't weak before. They did crazy amounts of chemical damage with those stupid pink shields. The MP mobs were tanks before the change, and I think balance will require that their weapon damage be reduced now that they have a pet.

[Cz]

Very good point, Iphigenia. We actually discussed the MPs mobs here just a few minutes ago.

[Snuble]

Noted, but remember that an NPCs 'level' is not the same as the profession level for player characters. The NPC 'level' is a value for its combat prowess; which level of character it should be a challenge for.

I guess that was how it was supposed to be I've got red mobs that I won't hesitate to attack on sight, and then there are some that will only see the cats tail.

And even if "working as intended", finding a near yellow mob with a pretty red pet still breaks with the intention of the mission difficulty.

[Darkbane]

MOBs should only ever summon one pet.

The pet should be no higher in level than the MOB (maybe a bit higher for crat and engy pets?).

The pet should be immediately unsummoned on the death of the summoning MOB. Failing that, player pets should not attack a MOB's pet unless explicitly told to do so.

The pets should be calmable (which they are) and stay calmed (which they don't always) - there is more info on this phenomena in other threads, but one example is calm pet, calm summoner, attack summoner, summoner issues a /pet guard command, calm on pet broken.

The pets should *not* be charmable.

MOBs a lowest levels should not summon pets (about 1-5).

Tone down the damage output of Metaphysicist MOBs slightly.

Put a version like that on test, then we'll see how it works out and come back with further suggestions.