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Thread: Agents too OP atm?

  1. #41
    Surprising a professional cannot see the impact on PvP the current iteration of agent has. It is currently impossible for multiple professions to reactively defend against them and that's not how it should be.

    And it's not that the agent can alpha someone unprepared, that's fine. Cortex has shown that well-prepared ganks can drop someone in a matter of seconds. What I'm talking about is more the 10 perk queueing when the target has literally 0 time to react and if they don't have some kind of heavy absorb or healing, you're toast.
    Last edited by Tsuniko; Oct 4th, 2015 at 02:32:57.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Tsuniko View Post
    Surprising a professional cannot see the impact on PvP the current iteration of agent has. It is currently impossible for multiple professions to reactively defend against them and that's not how it should be.

    And it's not that the agent can alpha someone unprepared, that's fine. Cortex has shown that well-prepared ganks can drop someone in a matter of seconds. What I'm talking about is more the 10 perk queueing when the target has literally 0 time to react and if they don't have some kind of heavy absorb or healing, you're toast.
    PvP in a MMO is not ever balanced 1v1. An Agent is strong but not unbeatable, especially if you happen to have a team-mate. If you like to solo PvP that's fine and dandy but don't expect balance. Not in AO, WoW or any other modern MMO with multiple classes and roles.

    That said, I get your point but Alphas have been a part of AO for a long, long time. If they're being removed, healing/evading will have to suffer and that will impact PvM more than it probably should. It's a complicated mess.
    PvM players are still the majority in this game by quite a bit. PvP here can be great fun but it lacks proper non-PvM incentives and then there's the huge amount of people who simply dislike any form of PvP and will not touch it unless forced to.
    Disrupting PvM in any way to boost PvP is just plain stupid with the current userbase.

    I kill people when I'm on my Agent with relative success.
    But I also kill Agents on my Shade, Fixer, NT, Doc, Soldier and.. well.. on my Agent.

    People being targeted by a high-alpha character usually prefer whining and often making stuff up (for a non-agent perspective look up the NT threads about it where they say we use NS2 + Triples when Triples weren't even in-game anymore and NS2 was obviously locked by Offensive Focus! It'd be hilarious if it didn't end up in an over-cautious destructive nerf).

    Agents could use a SLIGHT toning down as far as Perk AR goes. Maybe not all of their perks should hit relatively high-evade targets so easily. But suggesting they are OMG GODS THAT NEED HUGE NERFING is ridiculous and out of touch with reality.
    Last edited by DigitalBath; Oct 4th, 2015 at 03:10:21.
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  3. #43
    NT's don't sit in sneak and get to always choose when to start fights. NT's have lots of damage but it is not a 20k+ burst in 4 seconds, while the target is stunned. NT's don't have any healing. NT's can't root and do damage at the same time. NT's don't run at capped runspeed. NT's don't have escape nanos that make them largely unperkable and at the same time un CC'able. Agents can also use an NT's most powerful defensive item, NS2.

    #1 thing agents need a reduction on is the freaking 100% AMS (ie x2 add all off check) vs 90% dodge. This gives them absurdly high AR, especially when coupled with buffs.
    #2 thing is conditional perks so they can't queue nearly all their perks at once. Defensive evade perks are pointless when the perk check was passed 10s ago and you have 2x your health in perk damage alone incoming.

  4. #44
    I'll just suggest the same thing I've said for years.
    Add a second defensive check on completion of the perk execution.

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  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalBath View Post
    People being targeted by a high-alpha character usually prefer whining and often making stuff up (for a non-agent perspective look up the NT threads about it where they say we use NS2 + Triples when Triples weren't even in-game anymore and NS2 was obviously locked by Offensive Focus! It'd be hilarious if it didn't end up in an over-cautious destructive nerf).

    Agents could use a SLIGHT toning down as far as Perk AR goes. Maybe not all of their perks should hit relatively high-evade targets so easily. But suggesting they are OMG GODS THAT NEED HUGE NERFING is ridiculous and out of touch with reality.
    Might not have been targeted at me but I've not made anything up in this thread. I've gone by what I've experienced and it's whenever I meet an agent, I get an AS+full perk combo on me and there's nothing I can do but die unless I'm lucky enough to somehow have one of my evade perks up when they attempt this.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by dritst View Post
    Again that is lie or overestimated
    Explanation: * high AR? then not huge alpha. why? enh health (1500hp) 7 perk // shadow+snipe shot 6+2 perk.
    * good def with evace? Evace is 50% in fp AND 2 min recharge, 15 sec duration. That means 500 (nr1) or +700 aad. Let say you got 2900 def (you said huge AR? you cant have it all sowy) it is 3400 def for 15 sec! AMG and evader was complaining
    * "complete heal, minor heals -ubt -fear" PLEASE PLEASE if you want lie do it correcly. FEAR AND CH WTF!!
    * "100% crit buff" 2 minute recharge.

    But again, NEAR ALL THE GOOD PVPER left mostly. Maybe when they come back you will understand : "CH is enough to mitigate the opponents alpha and the dmg that comes during the 30sec CH lock is easily outhealable by LE, rootng and kiting." Then it is mostly because you ain't have enough XP in pvp.

    And again Agent are glasscanon, or you are clueless or you need to rework your setup.

    Edit: I'm agree that the Sneak -->gank is boring! Like Mber with 5 nt or 5 agent+ 1 fix -_-

    i dont feel like responding to every "point" youve made. however i want to say one thing. i dont like being called a noob. ive been playing since 2003 without a major break and focused on pvp since 2005 roughly. ive got a pvp toon for every prof at 220 and lots of tiwnks at diverse lvl ranges including an endgame 220 pvp agent that by far is not my most active char but still kicks ass. if you compare the toolset of a 220 age to most other profs you come to the conclusion that its a lot more and synergetic.

    *just one thing: by "high ar" i mean perk attack rating (sorry i havent been clear enough for you to fathom it). double AMS together with short term aao-buffs lead to an incredibly "high ar", while you still have around 3k def + evace nano (+700). if you go for the kill 15 secs is all you need. and with 3.7k def most profs cant land a single perk on you.

    at least that applies to my 220 agent.

    Quote Originally Posted by dritst View Post
    "* "complete heal, minor heals -ubt -fear" PLEASE PLEASE if you want lie do it correcly. FEAR AND CH WTF!!"
    i dont see about what im lying here and certainly not the point you were trying to make.


    //agent being able to alpha other profs is totally fine, but there should at least be the chance for the target to avoid it. most def profs cant start their defense before ages queue up their perks. solution could be something like removing the double AMS from perks, make bullseye debuff more dodge and give it a 3sec capped cast time.


    //another thing id like to say: at the 200 bs agent is straight up unrivaled. ive got a 200 twink crat 2.6k static def) and 200 twink shade. neither of those can dodge an alpha from an age even with ALL def perks up. if i get the chance to attack them first and begin my alpha on shade for example, i just get feared away, stunned and perked. my alpha even on shade (dual medi blade and dmg perks) is not enough to kill an agent within 5 sec. and there is no way i can hit an age for 5 seconds straight without getting feared, rooted, stunned and eventually killed.

    even mediocre twinked lvl 200 ages wipe the ground with pretty much everything.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Mountaingoat View Post
    NT's don't sit in sneak and get to always choose when to start fights. NT's have lots of damage but it is not a 20k+ burst in 4 seconds, while the target is stunned. NT's don't have any healing. NT's can't root and do damage at the same time. NT's don't run at capped runspeed. NT's don't have escape nanos that make them largely unperkable and at the same time un CC'able. Agents can also use an NT's most powerful defensive item, NS2.

    #1 thing agents need a reduction on is the freaking 100% AMS (ie x2 add all off check) vs 90% dodge. This gives them absurdly high AR, especially when coupled with buffs.
    #2 thing is conditional perks so they can't queue nearly all their perks at once. Defensive evade perks are pointless when the perk check was passed 10s ago and you have 2x your health in perk damage alone incoming.
    I know this 100% in and out and was clear about it.
    It didn't stop NTs getting Offensive focus inutilized.
    I hope there's a lesson learned and Agents are slightly adjusted instead of made useless (as they don't have Def Focus to fall back on).

    That's my point here.

    @Tsuniko: Just clarifying, I never meant to imply you made anything up!
    Last edited by DigitalBath; Oct 5th, 2015 at 00:31:22.
    Michizure is love, Michizure is life.
    --
    Dywas - 220/30/70 Neutral Nanomage Nano-Technician
    Caramela - 220/30/70 Neutral Solitus Doctor
    Desejos - 220/30/?? Neutral Atrox Enforcer
    Gretchenross - 220/30/?? Neutral Opifex Shade
    Bizzle - 220/30/70 Neutral Atrox Soldier

    --<3 Professional love--
    * Aiken pets Lazy on the head. Sure it is, you keep telling self that
    <Aiken> such a cutesy clammer aren't you *cheekpinch*
    <Lazy>
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    * Dywas decides to walk away from the soon-to-be sexytime
    <Aiken> lol Dywas, Id make a man of him
    <Lazy> Dywas, i'd go gay for aiken. no lie

  8. #48
    Yeah Agents are real fun now, and only slight adjustement is needed... maybe checks on stun perks so they only land on docs etc...
    Quote Originally Posted by Michizure View Post
    This'll be fixed for the next patch

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by slythea View Post
    i dont feel like responding to every "point" youve made. however i want to say one thing. i dont like being called a noob. ive been playing since 2003 without a major break and focused on pvp since 2005 roughly. ive got a pvp toon for every prof at 220 and lots of tiwnks at diverse lvl ranges including an endgame 220 pvp agent that by far is not my most active char but still kicks ass. if you compare the toolset of a 220 age to most other profs you come to the conclusion that its a lot more and synergetic.

    *just one thing: by "high ar" i mean perk attack rating (sorry i havent been clear enough for you to fathom it). double AMS together with short term aao-buffs lead to an incredibly "high ar", while you still have around 3k def + evace nano (+700). if you go for the kill 15 secs is all you need. and with 3.7k def most profs cant land a single perk on you.

    at least that applies to my 220 agent.
    even mediocre twinked lvl 200 ages wipe the ground with pretty much everything.
    About level 200 agent: Srompu already proposed some smart change (perks lvl lock ect) to rebalance. I don't have any pvp toon at this range but seeing the perk setup that you can use+ the equip you can reach (i saw blacksomething with xan angst, duno if gank'ar is doable) i'm pretty sure you are right.
    About tl7 agent : they are perfect balanced atm and i"m not calling you noob but : your statements are false or biased. "High HP+ high AR+ high def for example. Sorry m8 but you can't have it all !! I would love it but especialy with perk change most agent lost at least 1500 hp and def.
    Secondly "FEAR+CH" wow please.
    Finaly the double ams is perfect because agent don't have high AR except if they build full off. And most don't have an high AAO.

    http://auno.org/ao/equip.php?saveid=200755 My setup on trox. With 12man, predator buff AND OFF HUD 3 i barely hit 3240 ar (without tower) 22K hp

    Post a setup with the new perks +equip where you can get HIGH hp, high AR and at least 3K def (without tower). Except if you take in account 12+pred i doubt it. And those outside buff work for opponent. (Please we don't have infinite NCU -_-, RI means no gsf, we cant use Ess -cancel when change prof- we cant use morph adv+aura -cancel too- we cant cast touch of marius YET)


    P.S: It isn't because you play since 2003 that you are good, neither that you play all prof at 220. I play for age on crat i still suck in pvp on that prof -_-.
    P.S II: I tryed agent vs good pvper, it is fun, some prof die fast (mostly because they a real rework -crat/trader for example) some kill me fast (=they wait the good window) if they are smart/not cluless, some 50/50.
    Eilistrae 220/30/70 MA equip pic //Araushne 216/30 NT equip pic // Nhaundar 220/30 pic equip // Ahlysaaria 220/30 equip
    Dritst 220/30 Agent equip pic // Vhaeraun 218/30 fixer // Dylinrae 217/30 trader // Seldszar 220/29 adv
    Nhaundar 216/16 Trox enf <3 equip

    * http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...d.php?t=544974 <3 ty, how some ppl can be
    * S*rovi1: cant log in game funcom not responding Mrdex: they're translating Mrdex: give em some time.
    * Phante: whining is directly proportional with incompetence imo the more you sux the more youll cry and ask for stupid stuff.
    * [Provision]: 500m if you can even dent me You gained 103 PVP Solo Score.

  10. #50
    Do you know what the effective PERK AR of that setup is?

  11. #51
    At 3,240 visible AR (487 +aao from equip) with 12m (+100) based on the setup in your link and using fp adv (+300 aao), concentration (+150), pen buff (+75) and 90% checking perks, I have you at 4,787 perk AR with 12m and 4,567 perk AR without 12m. You have 1,112 AAO with 12m and 1,012 AAO without 12m. Your setup is not even optimized for +aao. With aao setup and bullseye you could perk well over 5k def. Borderline perking fixers through DoF. You being trox, if you use Mongo Rage you have 8,087 effective perk AR. My crat has 7600 def rating with DtB. You can perk my crat through DtB.

    All this because AMS checking perks means AAO gets added twice.
    Last edited by Mountaingoat; Oct 5th, 2015 at 05:40:28.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Mountaingoat View Post
    At 3,240 visible AR (527 +aao from equip) with 12m (+100) based on the setup in your link and using fp adv (+300 aao), concentration (+150), and pen buff (+75) I have you at 4831 perk AR with 12m and 4611 perk AR without 12m. You have 1,152 AAO with 12m and 1,052 AAO without 12m. Your setup is not even optimized for +aao. With aao setup and bullseye you could perk well over 5k def. Borderline perking fixers through DoF.
    I remember this pattern of misinformation in the last Agent nerf thread a few months ago, firstly the 3240 AR included 12man+pred+Off Hud. That Setup also only hits 2.85k def with zone buffs just to add.
    Also you can't have Adv Sabre morph+pred buff.
    So either you go FP Enf and yolo it or go FP Adv and forget about pred, either way your numbers are at least 400 over. Even if that setup went "full AR" it still ends up much less than stated and you can forget about evading any perks from most profs.

    You just can't have everything that was stated without both zone buffs+towers which is alittle ridiculous to argue with tbh when everyone has access to zone buffs and towers(also temp due to war).

    I'm not against adjustments to Agents but they don't need all out nerfs at 220. The main thing needed is that second check for perks.

    150-200 Agents do need a nerf badly but when I thought about it for awhile nothing came to mind that would truly "nerf" Agents as everyone wants,
    I even considered the possibility of having no attack perks for agents at all until 201 but that only hurt 150 Agents decently and 170 agents somewhat while 200 Agents are more or less unaffected if they know what to do.

    I'll just end it with this, IF attack perks were nerfed in a way that impacted 150-200 Agents enough to matter you will either see less Agents in BS/pvp or a lot of newly made Bow Agents in the 170-200 range.*yes Bow Agents*

  13. #53
    Just remove nr and aad on the escape nano, and we're good.
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  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Mountaingoat View Post
    At 3,240 visible AR (487 +aao from equip) with 12m (+100) based on the setup in your link and using fp adv (+300 aao), concentration (+150), pen buff (+75) and 90% checking perks, I have you at 4,787 perk AR with 12m and 4,567 perk AR without 12m. You have 1,112 AAO with 12m and 1,012 AAO without 12m. Your setup is not even optimized for +aao. With aao setup and bullseye you could perk well over 5k def. Borderline perking fixers through DoF. You being trox, if you use Mongo Rage you have 8,087 effective perk AR. My crat has 7600 def rating with DtB. You can perk my crat through DtB.
    All this because AMS checking perks means AAO gets added twice.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rockdizzle View Post
    I remember this pattern of misinformation in the last Agent nerf thread a few months ago, firstly the 3240 AR included 12man+pred+Off Hud. That Setup also only hits 2.85k def with zone buffs just to add.
    Also you can't have Adv Sabre morph+pred buff.
    So either you go FP Enf and yolo it or go FP Adv and forget about pred, either way your numbers are at least 400 over. Even if that setup went "full AR" it still ends up much less than stated and you can forget about evading any perks from most profs.
    You just can't have everything that was stated without both zone buffs+towers which is alittle ridiculous to argue with tbh when everyone has access to zone buffs and towers(also temp due to war).
    I'm not against adjustments to Agents but they don't need all out nerfs at 220. The main thing needed is that second check for perks.
    Reallity check.
    And fp Adv isnt enough effective. FP enf or doc. And MR got 500 pre-1K aao (=/WAVE), and that mean no nr1 or no top proc. YOU CAN'T HAVE EVERYTHING that the big gap between paper pvp and reallity (And as rockdizzle showed, misinformation)
    Eilistrae 220/30/70 MA equip pic //Araushne 216/30 NT equip pic // Nhaundar 220/30 pic equip // Ahlysaaria 220/30 equip
    Dritst 220/30 Agent equip pic // Vhaeraun 218/30 fixer // Dylinrae 217/30 trader // Seldszar 220/29 adv
    Nhaundar 216/16 Trox enf <3 equip

    * http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...d.php?t=544974 <3 ty, how some ppl can be
    * S*rovi1: cant log in game funcom not responding Mrdex: they're translating Mrdex: give em some time.
    * Phante: whining is directly proportional with incompetence imo the more you sux the more youll cry and ask for stupid stuff.
    * [Provision]: 500m if you can even dent me You gained 103 PVP Solo Score.

  15. #55
    But the point is

    You can perk pretty much anything unless they somehow predicted you were there and popped defensives first.

  16. #56
    All profs can do that tho(acouple needing MR obviously) which is why checks when a perk finishes is needed and being suggested in this thread.

  17. #57
    Imo just make perks deal halved damage if landed when def was high enough to prevent them from firing.
    Can also /2 all perk effect durations such as snare/root/stuns.

    Keybind alphas will still be there, but if defender is fast enough - they won't be as deadly as before.
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  18. #58
    It would seem I made a large error, I calculated AR to be significantly lower than it actually would be. I didn't count adv buffs aao twice and concentration aao twice. Even taking out pred buff as you say I get 5,199 AR with 12m and 4,979 without 12m.

    3240 visual AR + 487 aao (from equip) + 100 aao (12m buff) + 600 aao (300 aao adv buffs x2) + 300 aao (150 aao concentration x2) = 4727 + 472 (+ 10% for 90% def check perks) = 5,199 perk AR.

    3140 visual AR + 487 aao (from equip) + 600 aao (300 aao adv buffs x2) + 300 (150 aao concentration x2) = 4527 + 452 (+ 10% for 90% def check perks) = 4,979 perk AR.

    I can see room for about 130 more rifle and about 130 more aao (x2 ofc) with equipment netting around 390 more total perk AR in an offensive setup.

  19. #59
    That's not how 90% def checks work. You need to subtract 10% of the targets dodge, not add 10% of your AR.
    ie. If they have 2,000 Dodge, they would effectively have 1,800 before AAD instead.
    Also, the setup in Drist's sig has 427 AAO, not 487 AAO. If he's using Gan'kar (which he should) it's only another 20 AAO, not 60.
    As well as Advy buffs in kitty add up to 225 AAO, not 300.

    On my Agent (setup in Sig) I sit @ 3081 AR selfed without 12 Man/Pred, and 418 AAO.
    Add in 12 Man (100 AAO)/Advy Kitty (100 AAO)/Frenzy of Fur (125 AAO)/Concentration (150 AAO) you get 475 AAO.
    Add that all together, and you get 4449 AR before the 90% def check.
    Last edited by Wakizaka; Oct 5th, 2015 at 20:29:18.

    220s "Wakizaka", "Sneakygank", "Wakimango", "Wakisolja", "Tardersauce", "Bushwaki", "Midgetgank", "Bugfixxx", "Ramsbottom", "Paskadoc"
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    TL5s Youfail, Bugfixx, Riothamus, Johndee

    Proud President of Haven | TL5 PvP


  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Mountaingoat View Post
    It would seem I made a large error, I calculated AR to be significantly lower than it actually would be. I didn't count adv buffs aao twice and concentration aao twice. Even taking out pred buff as you say I get 5,199 AR with 12m and 4,979 without 12m.

    3240 visual AR + 487 aao (from equip) + 100 aao (12m buff) + 600 aao (300 aao adv buffs x2) + 300 aao (150 aao concentration x2) = 4727 + 472 (+ 10% for 90% def check perks) = 5,199 perk AR.

    3140 visual AR + 487 aao (from equip) + 600 aao (300 aao adv buffs x2) + 300 (150 aao concentration x2) = 4527 + 452 (+ 10% for 90% def check perks) = 4,979 perk AR.

    I can see room for about 130 more rifle and about 130 more aao (x2 ofc) with equipment netting around 390 more total perk AR in an offensive setup.
    90% def check = 100% AAD and 90% dodge?
    If i had to play like that at least i would go fp enf (chall 250 ish aao) at least i could rage if too hot (low def) And HP might help surivive.
    One month, i didn't log in but without verifyng but shade (not predrain) and adv can dodge the perk alpha with 3240 AR

    DAMN WAZ TOO FAST!! he got the answer, the calc and the English skillz
    Last edited by dritst; Oct 5th, 2015 at 21:23:04.
    Eilistrae 220/30/70 MA equip pic //Araushne 216/30 NT equip pic // Nhaundar 220/30 pic equip // Ahlysaaria 220/30 equip
    Dritst 220/30 Agent equip pic // Vhaeraun 218/30 fixer // Dylinrae 217/30 trader // Seldszar 220/29 adv
    Nhaundar 216/16 Trox enf <3 equip

    * http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...d.php?t=544974 <3 ty, how some ppl can be
    * S*rovi1: cant log in game funcom not responding Mrdex: they're translating Mrdex: give em some time.
    * Phante: whining is directly proportional with incompetence imo the more you sux the more youll cry and ask for stupid stuff.
    * [Provision]: 500m if you can even dent me You gained 103 PVP Solo Score.

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