Agents too OP atm?

[Sleekyz]

A team with 1 engi 1 enf, 1 doc, 1 sold, 1 crat, 1 advy should do reasonably well.

nanomage doc for genome and ring of pestilence, 1% reflect from advy, 30% from RRFE, 7% from keeper, 20% from guardian 15% from notum shield

I count 75% poison reflect which means getting a capped hit will require a crap tonne of multipliers vs doc. (I calculated about 60k+ base damage after accounting for 1/2 damage after 10k and 1/4 damage after 12k)

4 blockers will eat 2 fling+2 AS, doc will eat at least one stun, but should be ready with FM. Doc I reckon will survive first volley because agents would underestimate his defence. 5000 layer NM coon is worth 20k after adjustment for reflect. if doc makes it through initial volley, all agents will go down because they'll never be able to recover enough perk damage to take down engi.

I know enf seems like a weird choice but its actually not, because enf gives 2600 max health to doc, and paired with other defences you're looking at a defensive juggernaut that's nearly impossible to take down for 10 seconds, and extremely difficult to take down for 40s. The other thing is enf brings an area stun.

Assuming you're fighting in cluse quarters, an AOE stun while the agents are focussing on the doc (also purify btw) will buy a combined total of 2.5s + 4s = 6.5s of AoE stuns which, if launched immediately could provide enough stopgaps in the special spam for the doc to heal though the first volley.

I would lead with:
1 Bio Regrowth on doc from enforcer
2. pop AMS + guardian
3. cast BI
4. NM notum guard + NM coon

5. Initiate with weekend volunteer and you are next (on different targets), Purify, follow up with bring the pain.

Which put doc in good position to eat onslaught

then as soon as the AoE stuns hit, recast BI and refresh max HP.

the doc should make it through first volley and if he does, I think the fight is lost for the agents. engi uses NSD to remove RRFE, soldier spams CH resist on called target, keeper can spam some blow their cover (I'd be spamming this full time except when clarion is up, then go to town with that one).

Basically, the main problems I see here for agents are as follows:

1. if all fling/AS are activated together, then you run the risk at the very beginning of the fight failing the instagank vs highest concentration of blockers+temp reflect.
2. keeper will debuff agents eventually, AOE stuns, fears, clarion call, brawl, will end up putting AS's on different timers
3. agents must target doctor first for kill or they lose, which means you can set up on doctor to eat damage. As soon as fear/stuns are out, AS's will be on totally different timers and doc will be able to tank damage for about 20 seconds - in this time, at least one agent, if not more will go down, and they'll already be fighting to stay in the fight.
4. if they blow too many perks on doc (highly likely) they'll never take down the engie, especially with procced 13% reflect, 1% from advy and 7% from keeper,
5. Soldier is the key to agent takedown with CH resist on called target which will ensure agents go down rapidly regardless of FP
6. advy team heals can significantly prolong the fight if agents are somehow able to dispatch the engi after doc

7. Clutch: if agents are able to take down engi, there's no way they won't be facing a seriously uneven fight, with stuns from crat/keeper/enf/soldier, crat pets chewing away - agents don't have great crit resist so crat pets do decent damage, plus MB procs, NSD will remain for a bit after engi dies but agents might recover some defence late in fight. Even if agents get engi, it's going to be very tough to decide to go on crat with 20k HP OSB'd vs advy, either way, they won't take out another toon, and the fight will be all but finished with keeper+enf+advy+crat alive with 4 blockers each facing 3 agents with no perks up. No matter how you cut it here, agents can't win. The time it takes to get through a proper healer with blockers and 65%-75% reflects will just be too long, engi, again it's too expensive perk wise.

I mean, there's a reason why docs and engies are the first ones called at towers, its because they are and always have been the defence kings, the ones who can turn the tide of a fight because the other side simply spends far too long trying to take them down. The time it would take 6 agents to take down a doc and engi would be a huge risk, yes, they could do it... but it would cost them the fight.

doc with notum shield :S

[Tsuniko]

Lol, well I dont see multiboxers running around with 6x 220 agents yet.

that's cause they only need to be 175 to kill everything

[Anonimofied]

I remember agents used to be op back in 2005 too, then many babies cries and whines then fc nerfed the agents, somehow history repeats itself today. Because I see many tears.
However, I hope you success this year too, I wish you all the best and good luck with your petition.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

doc with notum shield :S

Meliz :S

[geturmoney]

how did they nerf ages back then except for the passive 40-->30% capped hit nerf? in my opinion they just didnt get any major boosts while the other profs got some.

[Hekthor]

that's cause they only need to be 175 to kill everything

Tsuniko, its not possible to play "One Button" Agents.
If you will set all your actions to one button you are only able to gank froobs because the perk attak Time of 10 Perks...
You need to split the lines and put different rotations to different keys. You never will kill a doc if your perkbuild isnt 100% optimized.

Agents got Def nerf and Off buff, know we can only gank because we die like chicken.
We got a 30s CH cd...so so you have played with 23k HP and less def in pvp? Trust me its boring...Solis lands CH Blocker against 2.2k NR, every1 is able to perk you.

Agents are only OP in 175-200 pvp but this is because of low lvl req of some Perks.

[Wakizaka]

Tsuniko, its not possible to play "One Button" Agents.

He was referring to multiboxed agents being 175 and killing anything under concentration.

[Tsuniko]

Tsuniko, its not possible to play "One Button" Agents.
If you will set all your actions to one button you are only able to gank froobs because the perk attak Time of 10 Perks...
You need to split the lines and put different rotations to different keys. You never will kill a doc if your perkbuild isnt 100% optimized.

Agents got Def nerf and Off buff, know we can only gank because we die like chicken.
We got a 30s CH cd...so so you have played with 23k HP and less def in pvp? Trust me its boring...Solis lands CH Blocker against 2.2k NR, every1 is able to perk you.

Agents are only OP in 175-200 pvp but this is because of low lvl req of some Perks.

You won't kill a doc but you sure will kill a crat/fixer/ma/trader with them having 0 chance of fighting back

[Siro]

You won't kill a doc but you sure will kill a crat/fixer/ma/trader with them having 0 chance of fighting back

+ shade
+ Engineer (perkdamage, specials Not needed)

And defense is by far Not so bad agents wann to convince the rest of playerbase ....

[Cratertina]

Make other profesions perk this good.

[Hekthor]

You won't kill a doc but you sure will kill a crat/fixer/ma/trader with them having 0 chance of fighting back

Traders and Fixers ware easy to kill as agent since i played Ao...so whats changed? Crats and MA are now mostly perkable if they done rise dev....sounds more like a problem of Crat / MA.

+ Shades:? Shade can still gank agents in like 3 seconds...get real, it depents on witch one got firsthit.
+ Engineer: Wow....there is now a way to gank Engis - Did you played vs engies in duel? Try it and you will see how fast an agent die. Pet dmg+Capped AS+ NSD are not avoideable.

Agent is a ganker! What is a ganker who cant gank? Guys, there is a huge difference between duel and bs.

[Tsuniko]

Traders and fixers have always been easy to kill as an agent so its fine if it's even easier now - flawless logic

shades require perk chains to be effective and most will not have enough AR to perk a decent agent unless he's predrained. SO basically agent can just pop escape nano, kite out the shade while all his perks are landing

Engi I agree is more than a match for an agent, but their toolset is designed to counter such things.

You can add keepers to the list of things that cannot do anything but die to an agent, our nemesis nano is pre-emptive instead of reactive and since coon changes AS just removes it one hit and caps HP anyway.

[dritst]

There isn't a lot of hardcore pvper around that might be why people thing agent are op.....

Tsuniko agent even lost some def (ruse 4), AS can miss even with 2500 (yes it happens) and in full def Setup you aint gona perk those ma/Fix/shade -_-

Shade can still alpha/perk agent (wow 3100 AR and they can't perk an agent, be real. SC+stim+coon>15 sec evac, i tested it)
MA can give decent fight in stance (i can't recall the name of MA that play very well in stance. He gave me a lot of funny fight -not a bow MA)
Trader are now easier to kill -that isn't an agent issue sorry (long time ago, before Gth nerf, they have been fun to fight)
Def crat (remod+def setup, not the Troaler setup) are decent (30 sec recharge on CH) but it is a semi-long fight.
Engy are easier to kill because: they give up HP in order to get 11 sec AS mostly. Perk snare on both pet + crit buff and perk are great (nm engy with shield+coon are the best way to counter agent alpha)
MP bow/shield. They can be a pain :X Nerf Rsssssrm and nicodemo :X
Fixer/sold are easier but they got more add dmge and i find there alpha can be evil (fun fight!) And with 2600 nr RI land, and the most boring, the ncu crash too (removing ncu buff -_- come on !)

This statement is coming from my playstyle: i dont sneak or rarely (not even cast ruse 4), i try to survive ( maybe i don't play agent the way it should :x)
But from my view agent are now fun and balanced : strong off (and yes i met people that are pretty good to use FM stim instead of health one! And they survive! And kill me!)
We got lower def than before (what the point anyway nowaday really) lower CH recharge. We got escape nano (15 sec; 2 min , 50% if in fp) and better LE heal. That means all is about timing, knowing how use your perk (bound them to 1 key is stupid, well except if you only sneak/gank/run)

I will agree that the sneaking part if boring. From my point of view it should be useful only to check how many enemies/if a doc around ect. It might be a stupid idea but nerfin 15% the damage if you are in sneak or a lock on some perk (5 sec) if you pop out from sneak might be fun (for me at least!)

We kill fast, and with the current toolset we got, die fast (surviving only if our timing is perfect ^^)

[Tsuniko]

Def crat: doesn't matter how much def you got, all perks land and you only have 1 way of stopping it and it basically means u lost anyway, dont tell me to reroll nanomage either, won't help.
shade is about who ganks first y, however there's tools agents can use when jumped on, however shade has no chance if he's jumped on
MA in razen? LOL, how can they ever put enough pressure to even make u CH?
fixer will die in first 10 seconds because every perk is queued up

like how you missed out trader too

[dritst]

Def crat: doesn't matter how much def you got, all perks land and you only have 1 way of stopping it and it basically means u lost anyway, dont tell me to reroll nanomage either, won't help.
shade is about who ganks first y, however there's tools agents can use when jumped on, however shade has no chance if he's jumped on
MA in razen? LOL, how can they ever put enough pressure to even make u CH?
fixer will die in first 10 seconds because every perk is queued up

like how you missed out trader too

Maybe it is because you can't be top in all prof tsuniko

Shade can survive (pst mortalwounded,whatup -something like that)
For the other examples: you act like you did about MB. Not revelant or exageration (well i was agree about MB nerf then <3);
Fixer will get perked by conc perk and maybe 1 perk (shadow). And except if Root proc lands, nothing can stop a fixer to "tryalpha&run". Of course if the fixer stand front of me 30 sec + he is dead (neophyte/the paradise nm fix aren't around)
MA in zazen can put you in preasure during the 30 sec windows after he made you use CH+evac. Zazen isnt infinite heal (cost seems to be a pain) but enough to survive perks (team+solo heal+unstunable). Maybe i should have swaped more often the sister ring, i can admit. But it was really amazing fight -Enigma, great timing in red dusk+incapacitate followed by the Dimach attack ect....
Crat wont be perked, pupu, dodge, cib circle. Of course agent can kill crat if all down (means sneak agent or agent who find you after you used your def and he come back from decoon). There is an issue because crat def perk are too slow (and nuke should be improved if he doesn"t have AS gun) but stop complaining about a profession toolset and ask your prof to rework crat def -As engy i spose crat have to sacrifice even more def now to get 11 sec AS on troaler?

You should just wait da beast pvper come back to show you how wrong (or provocative) your statement have been built.

You are right about keeper! And i'm pretty disapointed about this profession, even on other profession i'm playing, except capped SA they are more than mediocre -well they can survive a little more \o/. Except when shuyin on ofc! (Or Lequack keeper from what i saw in duel.

[Tsuniko]

All your situations you described are if the other prof sees agent first. I can have a decent fight with an agent IF i already have some kind of defensive up on my crat, however if we both run into each other, my def perk takes 1 sec to go off, whereas agent has 10 perks queued on me before that is possible.

It's inherently the problem with the perk system, however it does not help that agent now has stupidly high perk AR (for what reason, I wonder) to perk even evaders with most things.

Agent should at least need to land bullseye to perk evaders, not just tab q and 1

[dritst]

All your situations you described are if the other prof sees agent first. I can have a decent fight with an agent IF i already have some kind of defensive up on my crat, however if we both run into each other, my def perk takes 1 sec to go off, whereas agent has 10 perks queued on me before that is possible.

I already proposed a solution. At least discuss on it. Put all perk on 1 key is stupid, only good if you gank/run/sneak.

It's inherently the problem with the perk system, however it does not help that agent now has stupidly high perk AR (for what reason, I wonder) to perk even evaders with most things. Agent should at least need to land bullseye to perk evaders, not just tab q and 1.

It isn't stupidly high perk AR, for years agent have been nerfed, we are the ranged assassin, we are killer and we die fast. I cant perk ALL evader with 3240 AR (not the max). Kinda crazy that people complaining about Agent killing power where as we die so fast now. What you want? agent not killing and dying fast? Most of people i can perk easy (crat/adv/ma) focus more on Off or on AS setup than def. Stop complaining then. If you can't kill people without going full off setup or AS setup, then you should complain about game mecanism, not about agent prof.
P.S: keeper perkz work like that now!

[geturmoney]

I already proposed a solution. At least discuss on it. Put all perk on 1 key is stupid, only good if you gank/run/sneak.



It isn't stupidly high perk AR, for years agent have been nerfed, we are the ranged assassin, we are killer and we die fast. I cant perk ALL evader with 3240 AR (not the max). Kinda crazy that people complaining about Agent killing power where as we die so fast now. What you want? agent not killing and dying fast? Most of people i can perk easy (crat/adv/ma) focus more on Off or on AS setup than def. Stop complaining then. If you can't kill people without going full off setup or AS setup, then you should complain about game mecanism, not about agent prof.
P.S: keeper perkz work like that now!

you speak as if agents were the new glasscannons.. theyre not. they still have lots of hp and CH + LE. CH is enough to mitigate the opponents alpha and the dmg that comes during the 30sec CH lock is easily outhealable by LE, rootng and kiting.

- sneak
- high ar
- huge alpha
- high hp
- good def with evace
- complete heal, minor heals
- ubt
- fear
- roots/snares
- 100% crit buff
- 95% capped AS
- stun
- always rrfe selfbuffed

thats clearly too much of the good..

[dritst]

you speak as if agents were the new glasscannons.. theyre not. they still have lots of hp and CH + LE. CH is enough to mitigate the opponents alpha and the dmg that comes during the 30sec CH lock is easily outhealable by LE, rootng and kiting.

- sneak
- high ar
- huge alpha
- high hp
- good def with evace
- complete heal, minor heals
- ubt
- fear "edit: sorry i could'nt resist, you could add Ess for 9k hp, TMS X and NS2 why not!!!!!"
- roots/snares
- 100% crit buff
- 95% capped AS
- stun
- always rrfe selfbuffed

thats clearly too much of the good..

Again that is lie or overestimated
Explanation: * high AR? then not huge alpha. why? enh health (1500hp) 7 perk // shadow+snipe shot 6+2 perk.
* good def with evace? Evace is 50% in fp AND 2 min recharge, 15 sec duration. That means 500 (nr1) or +700 aad. Let say you got 2900 def (you said huge AR? you cant have it all sowy) it is 3400 def for 15 sec! AMG and evader was complaining
* "complete heal, minor heals -ubt -fear" PLEASE PLEASE if you want lie do it correcly. FEAR AND CH WTF!!
* "100% crit buff" 2 minute recharge.

But again, NEAR ALL THE GOOD PVPER left mostly. Maybe when they come back you will understand : "CH is enough to mitigate the opponents alpha and the dmg that comes during the 30sec CH lock is easily outhealable by LE, rootng and kiting." Then it is mostly because you ain't have enough XP in pvp.

And again Agent are glasscanon, or you are clueless or you need to rework your setup.

Edit: I'm agree that the Sneak -->gank is boring! Like Mber with 5 nt or 5 agent+ 1 fix -_-

[DigitalBath]

Looks like the Agent's Offensive toolset is going the same way as the NT's Offensive Focus community-wise.

People don't like getting alpha'd by something that can live more than 2 seconds.. and when I'm on my Agent I do that fairly often. Let's hope Agents don't get destroyed again, they don't deserve that fate.

No amount of reasoning or explaining how Agents actually work and how to beat them will work. I sure tried, as a NT, to explain that Aegis was easily circumventable. No dice. Post-nerf Offensive Focus was rendered useless considering you're giving up NS2 for something that just doesn't pay off enough, even vs. Soldiers.
Best of luck, Agents.