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Thread: Agents too OP atm?

  1. #1

    Agents too OP atm?

    kind of makes evade profs pointless right?

  2. #2
    Don't forget that they have guns. We're talking about banning them IRL all the time but we don't think that's too OP for agents?

  3. #3
    Agents have absurdly high AR, the best perk damage in game, a fantastic element of surprise, and an 11s capping special, escape nanos, 3k+ perception (sees shades), crit buffs that drastically improve certain alphas (instant capped FA, AS, fling), and options like CH, TMS, NS2, etc. Additionally agents are tiny and able to appear out of nowhere and gank from up to 40m away (and often behind you).

    Adding up the average perk damage (ql 1000 versions, ql 1500 are max) from the Assassin, Black Ops, Made, Shadowsneak, and Sharpshooter lines gives me an average perk damage of around 27k PVP damage. This takes place over about 14.5 seconds. 14.5 seconds is enough time for 2 aimed shots and 2 flings. Using my doc as an example, each aimed shot is worth about 8k damage. One of those flings is going to be capped for just shy of about 2k damage the other maybe not for around 1k damage. 27k+16k+3k=46k damage. This number excludes regular hits, proc damage, and further crits. Including those and accounting for high/low perk hit amounts I'd estimate an agent can put out about 50k-60k damage in 14.5 seconds against my doc.

    Using the technique of one big perk (night killer), concussive shot, fast perks (shadow bullet + snipe shot 1) + AS (for 8k) +fling (crit 2k) = 12k pvp perk damage and 22k average pvp damage with AS + crit fling against my doc in 2.5 seconds. At 4.5 seconds another 4.9k average damage perk is landing. Alternatively, with rifle mastery perked instead of black ops I could receive 27.5k in 3.5 seconds. Throw in a booster alpha with the potential for another capped special (full auto) and I can take well over 30k damage in about the time it takes to react to stun, hit FM stim, and have the 1s stim execution fire. This alpha doesn't take a lot of work or setup time, just button mashing.

    As seen above 4.5 seconds out of sneak an agent can do an average of 17k perk damage before even using AS. And unless that person is fast with FM's 4 of those 4.5 seconds are going to be stunned.

    A shade by contrast does about 22k perk damage in 9s with one sneak attack, which may or may not even cap. We'll say it does cap for 8k against my doc, giving us 22k+8k=30k. Plus regular hits, 2 fast attacks, and maybe a crit or two I figure about 35k-40k in the same 14.5 timeframe.

    So agents do more damage faster than shades from 40m away with a WAY higher attack rating.
    Last edited by Mountaingoat; Sep 27th, 2015 at 07:45:20.

  4. #4
    Nom nom, agents are quite good now, but if they did any worse... Pvpvers would be back to unkillable profs. And I dont like unkillable profs.

    One good thing about agent is, that you can kill them easier of all other OP professions. So if evades wouldnt be so OP, all professions would be more like agent and agent wouldnt be much of a problem.
    Quote Originally Posted by Michizure View Post
    This'll be fixed for the next patch

  5. #5
    I would just like some counterplay available, because right now, even with 3.8k static def, there is none

    how you would do that? Simple, remove the stupid perk checks and put them back to normal, make bullseye a delayed nano that triggers after 4 seconds and buff it to like -600 dodge or something, 20% NR check
    Last edited by Tsuniko; Sep 27th, 2015 at 12:56:10.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Mountaingoat View Post
    3k+ perception (sees shades)
    My equip is in my sig, please tell me where I can get another 1k+ perception.

    220s "Wakizaka", "Sneakygank", "Wakimango", "Wakisolja", "Tardersauce", "Bushwaki", "Midgetgank", "Bugfixxx", "Ramsbottom", "Paskadoc"
    200s Chrisd, Malema, Delbaeth
    TL5s Youfail, Bugfixx, Riothamus, Johndee

    Proud President of Haven | TL5 PvP


  7. #7
    Anyone else getting a feeling of Deja Vu? Literally just substitute "NT" for "Agent", and it's like we're back to yesterday.

    The only problem I see here is, that means today is Sunday, and work tomorrow...
    Vinkera - Soli NT - 426k DPM - Setup
    Robbey - Soli Crat

    Lone anarchists - Tower of Babil

    Celez - Soli Doc
    Loaloa - Soli Enf
    Wondershot - Nano Soldier
    Robzor - Soli Engi
    Proserpexa - Opi Agent

    Trying out civilization - Storm

  8. #8
    There should be a rule where you're not allowed to post "nerf X" threads for 24 hours after you've been killed by one
    I am wiser than any god or scientist, for I have squared the circle and cubed Earth's sphere, thus I have created 4 simultaneous separate 24 hour days within a 4-corner (as in a 4-corner classroom) rotation of Earth. See for yourself the absolute proof.

  9. #9
    Well, given how badly Offensive Focus was destroyed... I hope my Agent doesn't suffer the same fate because of the same reason.
    Michizure is love, Michizure is life.
    --
    Dywas - 220/30/70 Neutral Nanomage Nano-Technician
    Caramela - 220/30/70 Neutral Solitus Doctor
    Desejos - 220/30/?? Neutral Atrox Enforcer
    Gretchenross - 220/30/?? Neutral Opifex Shade
    Bizzle - 220/30/70 Neutral Atrox Soldier

    --<3 Professional love--
    * Aiken pets Lazy on the head. Sure it is, you keep telling self that
    <Aiken> such a cutesy clammer aren't you *cheekpinch*
    <Lazy>
    <Lazy> viva la revolucion
    * Dywas decides to walk away from the soon-to-be sexytime
    <Aiken> lol Dywas, Id make a man of him
    <Lazy> Dywas, i'd go gay for aiken. no lie

  10. #10
    anything that requires this low amount of skill needs to be fixed basically.

    NTs triple was one, it's now gone, this is agent 1 button kill anything under 20k hp(and more sometimes) without counterplay.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Vinkera View Post
    Anyone else getting a feeling of Deja Vu? Literally just substitute "NT" for "Agent", and it's like we're back to yesterday.
    That sense of Deja Vu is likely because other "Agents are OP!/?" threads are being made monthly, some are specific like TL5/6 and others are vague with little info on where the OP thinks they're too strong.

    Give it a couple weeks after this thread dies and another "X prof is OP guys" thread will pop up. My bet is on NT this time.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Rockdizzle View Post
    Give it a couple weeks after this thread dies and another "X prof is OP guys" thread will pop up. My bet is on NT this time.
    I hear they're pretty OP with that 3 second AS and stuff. :P
    Vinkera - Soli NT - 426k DPM - Setup
    Robbey - Soli Crat

    Lone anarchists - Tower of Babil

    Celez - Soli Doc
    Loaloa - Soli Enf
    Wondershot - Nano Soldier
    Robzor - Soli Engi
    Proserpexa - Opi Agent

    Trying out civilization - Storm

  13. #13
    well no, I gave my reasoning quite clearly.

    Agent sees target
    Agent presses 1 button with all DD perks, conc, fling and AS bound to it.
    if target has no way of mitigating damage apart from evades, target dies

    If agent somehow fails at pressing 1 button and killing target, press other button with escape nano and try again later.

    Did I forget to mention that an agent can perk through 3.8k static dodge?

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Tsuniko View Post
    well no, I gave my reasoning quite clearly.
    Did I forget to mention that an agent can perk through 3.8k static dodge?
    TL6 agent you mean? sad but they can..

  15. #15
    The problem isn't that agents are too OP. The problem is that in any situation that you're likely to face an agent, the mechanics are broken.

    In BS there's zero reason to team fight and the venue is simply WAY too big to have reasonable coverage for a single team. Coupled with the mechanic that simply has everyone pop out of decon at different times (you should pop out in waves with others who are trapped in decon) there's zero reason to team.

    The other place you're going to meet an agent is at war. Here, any death is a game breaker, any time anyone dies they got too long to wait before they are back in the fight, so, simply put again, the mechanics are to blame.

    Agents are fun to play, and offensively they are about where they should be.

    The problem is the other profs haven't caught up, and AO's mechanics are simply far to antiquated to deal with the constant threat/annoyance of death.

    As soon as death doesn't mean rezzing for 4 minutes and rebuffing for 3 minutes and 5 minutes of travel and 15 minutes of standing around waiting for something to happen, AO will be a better game by far, but until then we're stuck with a crappy BS layout/metagame which doesn't promote teaming, and solo assassins rule.

    Blame the makers of BS for agents.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by McKnuckleSamwich View Post
    The problem isn't that agents are too OP. The problem is that in any situation that you're likely to face an agent, the mechanics are broken.

    In BS there's zero reason to team fight and the venue is simply WAY too big to have reasonable coverage for a single team. Coupled with the mechanic that simply has everyone pop out of decon at different times (you should pop out in waves with others who are trapped in decon) there's zero reason to team.

    The other place you're going to meet an agent is at war. Here, any death is a game breaker, any time anyone dies they got too long to wait before they are back in the fight, so, simply put again, the mechanics are to blame.

    Agents are fun to play, and offensively they are about where they should be.

    The problem is the other profs haven't caught up, and AO's mechanics are simply far to antiquated to deal with the constant threat/annoyance of death.

    As soon as death doesn't mean rezzing for 4 minutes and rebuffing for 3 minutes and 5 minutes of travel and 15 minutes of standing around waiting for something to happen, AO will be a better game by far, but until then we're stuck with a crappy BS layout/metagame which doesn't promote teaming, and solo assassins rule.

    Blame the makers of BS for agents.
    youre right with what you say. but talking about theoretical team pvp. if a team of 6 ages is better than one composed of different profs then thats a sign of ages being op and way better than other classes. and a team of 6 ages would wtfpawn the **** out of every other team.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by slythea View Post
    youre right with what you say. but talking about theoretical team pvp. if a team of 6 ages is better than one composed of different profs then thats a sign of ages being op and way better than other classes. and a team of 6 ages would wtfpawn the **** out of every other team.
    A team with 1 engi 1 enf, 1 doc, 1 sold, 1 crat, 1 advy should do reasonably well.

    nanomage doc for genome and ring of pestilence, 1% reflect from advy, 30% from RRFE, 7% from keeper, 20% from guardian 15% from notum shield

    I count 75% poison reflect which means getting a capped hit will require a crap tonne of multipliers vs doc. (I calculated about 60k+ base damage after accounting for 1/2 damage after 10k and 1/4 damage after 12k)

    4 blockers will eat 2 fling+2 AS, doc will eat at least one stun, but should be ready with FM. Doc I reckon will survive first volley because agents would underestimate his defence. 5000 layer NM coon is worth 20k after adjustment for reflect. if doc makes it through initial volley, all agents will go down because they'll never be able to recover enough perk damage to take down engi.

    I know enf seems like a weird choice but its actually not, because enf gives 2600 max health to doc, and paired with other defences you're looking at a defensive juggernaut that's nearly impossible to take down for 10 seconds, and extremely difficult to take down for 40s. The other thing is enf brings an area stun.

    Assuming you're fighting in cluse quarters, an AOE stun while the agents are focussing on the doc (also purify btw) will buy a combined total of 2.5s + 4s = 6.5s of AoE stuns which, if launched immediately could provide enough stopgaps in the special spam for the doc to heal though the first volley.

    I would lead with:
    1 Bio Regrowth on doc from enforcer
    2. pop AMS + guardian
    3. cast BI
    4. NM notum guard + NM coon

    5. Initiate with weekend volunteer and you are next (on different targets), Purify, follow up with bring the pain.

    Which put doc in good position to eat onslaught

    then as soon as the AoE stuns hit, recast BI and refresh max HP.

    the doc should make it through first volley and if he does, I think the fight is lost for the agents. engi uses NSD to remove RRFE, soldier spams CH resist on called target, keeper can spam some blow their cover (I'd be spamming this full time except when clarion is up, then go to town with that one).

    Basically, the main problems I see here for agents are as follows:

    1. if all fling/AS are activated together, then you run the risk at the very beginning of the fight failing the instagank vs highest concentration of blockers+temp reflect.
    2. keeper will debuff agents eventually, AOE stuns, fears, clarion call, brawl, will end up putting AS's on different timers
    3. agents must target doctor first for kill or they lose, which means you can set up on doctor to eat damage. As soon as fear/stuns are out, AS's will be on totally different timers and doc will be able to tank damage for about 20 seconds - in this time, at least one agent, if not more will go down, and they'll already be fighting to stay in the fight.
    4. if they blow too many perks on doc (highly likely) they'll never take down the engie, especially with procced 13% reflect, 1% from advy and 7% from keeper,
    5. Soldier is the key to agent takedown with CH resist on called target which will ensure agents go down rapidly regardless of FP
    6. advy team heals can significantly prolong the fight if agents are somehow able to dispatch the engi after doc

    7. Clutch: if agents are able to take down engi, there's no way they won't be facing a seriously uneven fight, with stuns from crat/keeper/enf/soldier, crat pets chewing away - agents don't have great crit resist so crat pets do decent damage, plus MB procs, NSD will remain for a bit after engi dies but agents might recover some defence late in fight. Even if agents get engi, it's going to be very tough to decide to go on crat with 20k HP OSB'd vs advy, either way, they won't take out another toon, and the fight will be all but finished with keeper+enf+advy+crat alive with 4 blockers each facing 3 agents with no perks up. No matter how you cut it here, agents can't win. The time it takes to get through a proper healer with blockers and 65%-75% reflects will just be too long, engi, again it's too expensive perk wise.

    I mean, there's a reason why docs and engies are the first ones called at towers, its because they are and always have been the defence kings, the ones who can turn the tide of a fight because the other side simply spends far too long trying to take them down. The time it would take 6 agents to take down a doc and engi would be a huge risk, yes, they could do it... but it would cost them the fight.

  18. #18
    That's some pretty fine paper PvP there.
    In a perfectly coordinated scenario that might actually work, but I doubt it in reality.

    220s "Wakizaka", "Sneakygank", "Wakimango", "Wakisolja", "Tardersauce", "Bushwaki", "Midgetgank", "Bugfixxx", "Ramsbottom", "Paskadoc"
    200s Chrisd, Malema, Delbaeth
    TL5s Youfail, Bugfixx, Riothamus, Johndee

    Proud President of Haven | TL5 PvP


  19. #19
    Lol, well I dont see multiboxers running around with 6x 220 agents yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Michizure View Post
    This'll be fixed for the next patch

  20. #20
    all this is assuming the agents dont just run off after failed gank.

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