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Thread: Fixer long HoT bugged?

  1. #1

    Fixer long HoT bugged?

    When doing some fooling around with a low lvl NT last night, I noticed that the HoT that I had goten from a fixer (Dr.Hack and quack) stopped healing after about 30-35 mins, but it stayed in the NCU for the supposed 4 hrs. I tried to relog, and it helped, for another 35ish minutes.
    Xerfi - 205 Fixer, General of Argentum Astrum

  2. #2
    The duration was increased, but the tick count is still only 180x 10s (30 minutes) instead of 1,440x 10s (4 hours) to match the duration of the nano.

    220s "Wakizaka", "Sneakygank", "Wakimango", "Wakisolja", "Tardersauce", "Bushwaki", "Midgetgank", "Bugfixxx", "Ramsbottom", "Paskadoc"
    200s Chrisd, Malema, Delbaeth
    TL5s Youfail, Bugfixx, Riothamus, Johndee

    Proud President of Haven | TL5 PvP


  3. #3
    I've listed it in a Bug Report now.
    One profession to RoO them all, one profession to proc stun them, one profession to calm them all and in the darkness Exp perk them!

    Crataiken 220/30/70 General - Primal Evolution - 3rd AI 30 'Crat on RK 1 Setup
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  4. #4

    Funcom employee

    Yep, I dun' goofed. I intended to only extend the durations for non-ticking buffs, as this is something I tend to forget. I suppose I just got lost in the haze of making everything 4 hours.

    In all seriousness, I'll probably make a new patch soon to correct these and some other small issues. Sorry for the inconvenience and thanks for the report!
    Henry "Michizure" Senger
    Lead Designer
    ___________________________________
    Twitter - Welcome to Testlive - Customer Service

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Michizure View Post
    Yep, I dun' goofed. I intended to only extend the durations for non-ticking buffs, as this is something I tend to forget. I suppose I just got lost in the haze of making everything 4 hours.

    In all seriousness, I'll probably make a new patch soon to correct these and some other small issues. Sorry for the inconvenience and thanks for the report!
    So, make the healing element of the Hot last for the full 4 hours? Or, change it back to 30 minutes to match the "ticks"?

    Emma

  6. #6
    Not sure how much I like the 4h duration on HoTs. Guess it's gonna change quite a lot for lowbie lvling, and lowbie pvp. We'll see how it turns out I guess^^
    220/30 doc [E]
    220/30 crat [E]
    220/30 shade [E]
    158/21 trader [E]
    117/13 agent [E]
    56/6 trader [E]
    30/3 enforcer [E]


  7. #7
    It makes sense to make the long HoT four hours. If you're in a single fight that lasts longer than 15 minutes (for some of the HoTs), barring maybe some boss/raid encounters, you're doing something wrong. Recasting every 15-30 minutes is a pain, a grind, a lame thing. I think the short HoTs are too short too (5 or 10 minutes would be better -- I go through so many nano kits soloing, and in teams, I can't recharge nano unless I go out and buy crappy battle-prepared kits because somebody is always rush rush rushrushrushrushing the next mob), but I can understand the intention.

    I wonder, what would people think of a "suspend" feature on nanoprograms, which halts their timer and ceases their effect, but still takes up NCU to keep it available for un-suspending later?

  8. #8
    The whole idea of increasing durration of majority of buffs is not that good as it appears at first.

    Sure it is convenient to buff up with every buff you need from many professions then go and grind for 4 hours without need of rebuffing.

    The problem is that some professions may find it harder to get teams as some player will only want some buffs and team with professions that are better for particular team/instance.
    Awikun 220/70/30 Ranged adv - my Main that I hardly ever log
    Awisha 220/70/30 Shade - Can solo 95% of all bosses
    Cratawi 200/70/30 Crat - S7/DR Solo farmer
    Awiken 220/70/30 Eng - Pvm Eng
    Nukiwa 200/70/30 NT - almost forgotten (awaiting retwink)
    Awidoc 200/70/30 Doc - 200 fun pvp twink
    Awix 200/70/30 Fix - 200 fun pvp twink
    Awienf 220/70/30 Enf - tanked every single boss (and still lives)
    Soldawi 220/70/30 Sol - Pvm Sold
    Awima 150/xx/xx Ma - best S10 MA farmer
    Doctorawi 220/70/30 - Pvm Doc
    Awienfo 200/70/30 - Atrox with Pande red belt and 2xQL300 hammers
    Macierewicz 220/70/30 - Pvm Crat
    Zlakobieta 220/70/30 - max complit +top tradeskiller

  9. #9
    The game is unfortunately kinda empty, and getting needed buffs can take a long time as a result. Prime example being here in the thread, HNQ, as well as GSF, for blitzing much higher level missions to get needed gear to de-gimp one's self a bit.

    Let's say you get GSF and HNQ, but you want Essence of Behemoth so you can survive the occasional hit that gets through, and an engineer AC buff for a bit more suvivability, because you're level 60, you're a gimp, you still want some TOTW boss loot but the mobs are always camped and what you want hasn't been left rotting, so you decide to do it yourself (and level-locking and working your gear up before proceeding to the next level is kind of a core piece of AO gameplay anyway), so, you start rolling level 108 missions. You get GSF and HNQ from a friendly fixer, and you beg for 45 minutes for buffs but can't get the AC buff or Essence of Behemoth. You're back to square one, begging for buffs that you already got because they expired. It's just a fact of our current population level that this is going to happen if buff durations aren't increased.

    The ideal, fun solution to not being able to get the buffs you need to blitz a mission would be to collect five friendly players within your level range, with a good team composition, to go in there and kill these deep, deep red mobs for pretty good XP and sellable vendor trash and maybe even decent random implants to loot, clean, and reassemble into useful things (I mean, nobody actually does this, they just shop-buy because we've got tons of credits, but a day-one player with no credits could do things this way; the collected gear and credits of the playerbase actually destroys the way the game was meant to be played, but that's another topic). BUT: That requires you to get help from FIVE people for however long it takes to assemble the team, go to the mission location, kill enough mobs, accomplish the mission, and go do the next -- because seriously do you ever roll just one mission at a time? -- rather than the time it takes for three people, or one person with three alts, to buff you. Good luck.

    I actually did it this way. One time. Ever. Back in 2007, I was rolling too-high-for-me missions for armor (which started being rollable at QLs much higher than my level) to put in my social tab to look cool. I cried out for help in OOC in Rome, and I actually kinda quickly got a few other higher level players to come pwn a couple of missions to death for me. But that was 2007. This would be unfathomable now, just like finding a team that's willing to help you farm robot mobs (even if you one-shot them, it's still faster in a team) for the shoulderpad quest pieces. The players adapt, creating chat bot channels for organizing activities, or having multiple accounts, or multiboxing, but there's only so much a very low population can do, and when it comes to getting help doing things, *everybody* needs that sometimes, and the people who remain would probably rather be engaged in trying to accomplish their *own* goals, and those that remain are largely (though not completely) aged veterans with credits to spend, so getting services like "pwn everything in TOTW, SoM, CoH, and IS for me so I can have it at level 1 and then sit in kite spots until 210 and then do inf missions in a medsuit until 220" is where a ton of the effort is concentrated.

    Retention is important. Longer buff durations = retention. Plus, I doubt FC would want to patch longer buff durations in only to change their mind in the very next patch without having a look at its' overall effect on retention first.

  10. #10
    I just took a quick glance at my fixer hots, and while the RK hots now look like they hit correctly, the SL hots still have the 180 hits instead of the 1440.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by vitriolic-v View Post
    The game is unfortunately kinda empty, and getting needed buffs can take a long time as a result.
    If this is the main reason why buffs went to a 4h duration it would be very weird logic and why not make it 8h durations or hell just make em all perma Buffs, that will last even after you die. Because looking and asking for buffs is very inconvenient.

    Personally the [self buffs] should only get the 4h tagg, because each time you play your toon the chance that you play it longer then your buffs duration was a very high probability.

    However, everything you can cast on others should not be longer then 30min - 1h tops. Why?, because it's not part of your skill set!!!
    Other professions should not be running around with other peoples toolset like it's there own. Duration made the fine line which is now completely removed. Also recasting stuff is part of the game, if you didn't plan ahead it your own fault, if the battle lasted longer then your HoT and you're out of Nano it's not a faulty game it's the outcome of either a good battle or bad game played. You don't have to increase a duration of a buff for this, it's a game element.

    (Oh, and before you start about Agents, FP should work in a similar fashion. While the Agent "looks" like an other profession, the "self" buff he'll get from it's FP will check for the same req as if he would get buffed by others. So those buff will last 30min -1h tops.)

    HoT (long HoT in specific) if casted on others shouldn't be lasting for 4h for this reason. If you want to blitz roll a fixer, don't ask one for buff and pretend to be one.
    Last edited by Zwelgje; Sep 25th, 2015 at 09:58:40.

  12. #12
    + 1 Zwelgje agreed 100%
    Awikun 220/70/30 Ranged adv - my Main that I hardly ever log
    Awisha 220/70/30 Shade - Can solo 95% of all bosses
    Cratawi 200/70/30 Crat - S7/DR Solo farmer
    Awiken 220/70/30 Eng - Pvm Eng
    Nukiwa 200/70/30 NT - almost forgotten (awaiting retwink)
    Awidoc 200/70/30 Doc - 200 fun pvp twink
    Awix 200/70/30 Fix - 200 fun pvp twink
    Awienf 220/70/30 Enf - tanked every single boss (and still lives)
    Soldawi 220/70/30 Sol - Pvm Sold
    Awima 150/xx/xx Ma - best S10 MA farmer
    Doctorawi 220/70/30 - Pvm Doc
    Awienfo 200/70/30 - Atrox with Pande red belt and 2xQL300 hammers
    Macierewicz 220/70/30 - Pvm Crat
    Zlakobieta 220/70/30 - max complit +top tradeskiller

  13. #13
    And you wonder why I don't even bother playing or posting here anymore... Why not make buffs last 30 seconds like in guild wars based on this failed logic..... Plan ahead you say? Can you twink all your alphas in 30 secs... the game has too many buffs and has always been a buff heavy game if you want proper solutions we need to condense many buffs first and go from there.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Zwelgje View Post
    If you want to blitz roll a fixer, don't ask one for buff and pretend to be one.
    Let me fix this for you, because what you're really saying is: "If you want for there to be even one single person who can be bothered to blitz in the game active at any given time, do it yourself by rolling a fixer and getting it to whatever level just so you can blitz one item, even if you really just generally hate playing fixers. While you're at it, multibox 6x with paid accounts so that other toolsets are available to you." It might not be what you *mean,* but it is the implication and result of that thinking.

    It's like you're chanting "severe inconvenience OR DEATH!" Like you would rather the game just fade away within a few months than see it "sullied" by "easymode." I want you to understand that I, too, think that buff durations were just fine -- when Borealis was so packed that it was a little choppy, so you could get your buffs in off-cities instead, within a few minutes. I, too, think that your HoT expiring in-fight was just fine -- when there were people around to team with, as the game was meant to be played. If the game is rendered severely more difficult or impossible due to the state of the population, that needs to be corrected, because it is preventing people (who don't *already* have six paid accounts full of 220s with all the gear in the world to hand off to their lowbie alts) from playing the game. FC can't develop mind control devices to force people to come back, but they can run HoTs for longer.

    "LONGER BUFFS NAO" is not something that "those brainless idiots on the other side of the line" are just mindlessly begging for as pandering to people who are just terrible at video games, as opposed to the "seasoned veteran" attitude that "IN MY DAY WE WORKED FOR EVERYTHING AND YOU'S GUYS JUST WANT EVERYTHING HANDED TO YOU."

    But yeah that "if target = self" logic should be implemented for some buffs when determining duration. SOME. Not HoTs and not runspeed. Not a bunch of things, probably -- it needs to be based on how essential it is to gameplay working at current population levels. Don't worry. Getting a few buffs is not sufficient to pretend to be a fixer. It doesn't bring your evades up to that level. It doesn't give you a short HoT that will still be running when you get to wherever you were going. It doesn't give you an AOE snare or all the fixer evade perks.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Zwelgje View Post
    If you want to blitz roll a fixer, don't ask one for buff and pretend to be one.
    I think there's nothing wrong with making buffs last longer in general; the only exceptions being if there was a legit balance issue, for example HNQ and lowbie pvp, which is pretty well the only reason I can see for this change not sticking around.

    While I didn't really have an issue with the previous durations, I have to admit it was still kinda just needlessly fiddly for no real reason. It's not even adding difficultly or complexity, it's just fiddly for the sake of being fiddly.

    Is it now possible to stock up on OSB's? Sure, but it was possible before, too. And I have to agree with vitriolic-v on this point - just cause you went and got hnq and gsf doesn't make you a fixer, any more than getting behe makes you an enf.
    Kain97 - 220 Fixer, President, Pantheon
    Maskirovka - 220 Shade
    Dominum - 220 Bureaucrat
    Severit - 220 Enforcer
    Sayet - 220 Doctor

  16. #16

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by doctorgore View Post
    The only difference here is the word "magic" being used!

    Fiddly. Good word. Doesn't quite get it across I don't think.

  18. #18
    On the other hand it is wonderful... at low levels its like a nice godmode.. 4 hour hot + gsf.. totaly fixes low level gameplay. Guns are good enough, armor works, stims are not needed... healdelta is nice.. runspeed is ok.

    Solves everything really.
    Quote Originally Posted by Michizure View Post
    This'll be fixed for the next patch

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Zwelgje View Post
    If this is the main reason why buffs went to a 4h duration it would be very weird logic and why not make it 8h durations or hell just make em all perma Buffs, that will last even after you die. Because looking and asking for buffs is very inconvenient.

    Personally the [self buffs] should only get the 4h tagg, because each time you play your toon the chance that you play it longer then your buffs duration was a very high probability.

    However, everything you can cast on others should not be longer then 30min - 1h tops. Why?, because it's not part of your skill set!!!
    Other professions should not be running around with other peoples toolset like it's there own. Duration made the fine line which is now completely removed. Also recasting stuff is part of the game, if you didn't plan ahead it your own fault, if the battle lasted longer then your HoT and you're out of Nano it's not a faulty game it's the outcome of either a good battle or bad game played. You don't have to increase a duration of a buff for this, it's a game element.

    (Oh, and before you start about Agents, FP should work in a similar fashion. While the Agent "looks" like an other profession, the "self" buff he'll get from it's FP will check for the same req as if he would get buffed by others. So those buff will last 30min -1h tops.)

    HoT (long HoT in specific) if casted on others shouldn't be lasting for 4h for this reason. If you want to blitz roll a fixer, don't ask one for buff and pretend to be one.
    I disagree. The buffs you can only cast on yourself are part of your own tool set, the rest is available to everyone.

    If a buff lasts 30 mins, nothing stops you from getting it every 30 mins, but it's annoying to do.

    Anything that already lasts more than 20 mins is a long time buff and should last 4 hours instead.

    From what has already been done the dev team apparently agree with this. Way to go.
    Expansion Characters
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  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Amerigo View Post
    Text.
    Quote Originally Posted by vitriolic-v View Post
    Text.
    Well it's perfectly fine to disagree and I guess we'll keep doing so on this point.

    There is a very simple trick for what could be to last 4h. 1) all buffs= self, 2) the ones you can by in the general store.
    The remaining group of buff could be casted on = "others", this is true as well. This doesn't however make em available for everyone, or else they would be in the general store.

    Atm just a few "other" buff are getting this nice treatment and why is that, e.g. because fixers don't like to rebuff that same person every 30min or so (using old durations here)? Ask any trader which buff they'd like to have increased for 4h if the opportunity was there so not to get harassed. True, a tad OP if you ask me, but what's OP or not seems to be a nice grey area for forum discussion. Apparently long HoT's aren't and they are just there for everyone for 4h. Then why do I still have to bug a fixer about them... Don't increase it's duration, just put it in de general shop.

    I'm not hating fixers, I don't play one, yet (last toon I have to explorer) just the idea that random nano's, which are perfectly fine on there own (already OP in certain conditions) getting there favour boosted even more, with zero real motivation (It was broken or can I have Buff Plox for long time, do not count). The blitzing thing was an example; You don't need a fixer to get anything from a mission (only a third party program to roll the right stuff). No Multi Box is needed for any "other "buff to obtain, just a friendly question (but please stop bugging my trader). And if this was done because population was getting on the low side... Wow, apparently the "other" buff did it (not the Simpsons nor South Park). True population isn't at it's peek but then again, as the buff aren't part of your toolset, perhaps make best of what you do have?

    The only thing I might agree on is that FC has currently set there mind this route, but they could consult Rafiki (watching Lion King with the kids atm) and reconsider this change and all = "other" buffs in an equal fashion...
    Last edited by Zwelgje; Sep 26th, 2015 at 13:58:39.

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