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Thread: Monthly Development Update - August 2015 (Pyramid Scheming)

  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by BytEfLUSh2 View Post
    Gaaaaaah! I don't PvP, I don't care (much) about multiboxing, but I have to protest this abuse of "milliseconds". It is close to impossible for a regular, coordinated team (no matter how they are communicating) to fire up 6 specials within a few milliseconds. Hell, it's also not likely that a MB "team" could do that. It may happen in "a blink of an eye" (roughly 70ms IIRC), but let's take a look at the two categories of attack:

    LAN party with 6 people:
    - You all target the same person beforehand
    - Leader yells "attack" (T: 0ms)
    - Soundwave of the command reaches your eardrums (T: 6ms) (with few assumptions)
    - Brain decyphers the command (takes ~20ms; T: 26ms)
    - Things start getting funky here - you cannot find a group of people that processes the information in the same time span. Takes approx. 200ms - 800ms even if your finger is already on the key (T: 226ms - 826ms - upward if you're inexperienced)
    As for FC, only the last step matters since that's what they get on their servers, in their logs. Even the most experienced group that's been used to legal group PvP would be off by at least 10s of milliseconds.

    Multibox:
    - Player fires up multiple clients and finds the target
    - Decides to attack (T: 0ms)
    - MB sends TCP packets or virtual key commands to running clients. (takes ~5ms (my estimate), T: 5ms)
    - Even if other programs, routers, or anything else on the internet interferes with these, the fact is the packets were sent almost at the same time and will arrive within a few milliseconds to their destination
    Boom, you got a multiboxer.

    And in case you're worried about false positives, just let some ARKs follow suspected MBs around. On their next attempt it will be clear as day.
    By a few I mostly meant under half a second. It's more than enough.

    That said, You should probably think about a simple random 50-750ms delay and how easy it is to put into the MB'd toons' alpha macro. Hell, I don't multibox and I could figure that out it if I cared to.
    Last edited by DigitalBath; Sep 4th, 2015 at 04:18:17.
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  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by McKnuckleSamwich View Post
    What is your point?
    Point is if /assist is removed so should ALL non mouse targeted actions be. Including team heals. Thats about how silly I think the entire idea is.

    It would be a lot more effective to remove /follow than /assist derp derp. But that also would make any form of multi-dual logging absurd to control.

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  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Psikie View Post
    Point is if /assist is removed so should ALL non mouse targeted actions be.
    So you're saying remove tab as well?

    But do you understand that mouse targeting is the next most easily exploitable capability using third party software?

    Like, I can do it now. I used it last night when I rolled three froob engineers on arête. in fact, I did it just for kicks.

    I press a button, I aim at a mob on my main screen, when I click, the location of the mouse pointer is transferred through all inactive screens, the click location propagates through, and bingo, all toons are targeting the same mob.

    I mean, whatever... tab doesn't help, but it doesn't hinder either.

    I guess the bottom line is that this probably won't really help the situation.

    I personally feel that if you really want to make MB useless in PVP, you actually have to either ban MB iin <25%, or put in invulnerabilities or something that activate after each hit so you can't take more than 30% damage for a short period of time after taking a large hit.

  4. #84
    Great stuff but ... how about not allowing multiboxing ?

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Aiken View Post
    I still think we should open up a cheese 'n whine shop...
    I'd like to order a seat and some popcorn when this opens up!
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  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Nermal View Post
    And who is to say that those ARKs aren't keen on multiboxing their own toons, mean if someone is an ARK, they are invested in AO, someone that invested may well multibox.
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  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by nepherius View Post
    Great stuff but ... how about not allowing multiboxing ?
    And lose the profit coming from it? That's what's this is all about. And that's why you have an empty game pretty much.
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  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Slynn View Post
    And lose the profit coming from it? That's what's this is all about. And that's why you have an empty game pretty much.
    Or you have an empty game because it is 14 years old and no new modules/expansions. Newer games are releasing new content every 3-6 months. And again.. its 14 years old. Does anyone really expect 300k players in a 14 year old game. Unless its wow I don't see it happening for any mmo currently or in the future.

  9. #89
    So those who stand against multi boxers gained a strong ally in the fight to save our community and game. We've also learned that regardless of the games struggles they are committed to releasing new content for you and all we can do is bicker and presume. Shame on yourselves the lot. I've seen friends go and made new ones in my years on Anarchy Online. I've adjusted with the times and challenges and the repeat codeys that grasp for attention through any means. We have the developers on our side and that is all that matters. It's unfortunate that a group of players would rather build an automated community then to join the long existing one we have established already. They don't understand it now but they will when it's over that this community does not settle for that. They will be outted and outcasted when they re roll and they will always be known for negative things. This has always been proven with anyone who has thought they were smarter or above the community. I rather choose to be excited for the new content and look forward to new challenges with all of you.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by paperjockey View Post
    Or you have an empty game because it is 14 years old and no new modules/expansions. Newer games are releasing new content every 3-6 months. And again.. its 14 years old. Does anyone really expect 300k players in a 14 year old game. Unless its wow I don't see it happening for any mmo currently or in the future.
    True.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaylinne View Post
    Better stick to killing. Youre much better ganker than song writer.

  11. #91
    Well, if you guys really want to bann multiboxing... sign a petition that you will subscribe extra accounts to make up for lost revenue and put your hard earned $ and € where your mouth is.

    Prove to funcom that extra 10k€ will be generated from the bann... Maybe something will happen.

    But while purposing solutions that provide anger in community, loss of revenue, expenditure in chasing milliseconds around, wasting GM time, breaking gameplay... That is not a solution... its extra work, for net loss of revenue.
    Quote Originally Posted by Michizure View Post
    This'll be fixed for the next patch

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Cratertina View Post
    Well, if you guys really want to bann multiboxing... sign a petition that you will subscribe extra accounts to make up for lost revenue and put your hard earned $ and € where your mouth is.

    Prove to funcom that extra 10k€ will be generated from the bann... Maybe something will happen.

    But while purposing solutions that provide anger in community, loss of revenue, expenditure in chasing milliseconds around, wasting GM time, breaking gameplay... That is not a solution... its extra work, for net loss of revenue.
    This assumption that Multiboxers make up the majority of subscriber revenue has got to stop, it's utter tripe.
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  13. #93
    Removing assist in PvP won't really harm amount of subscriptions, since it only harms those who multibox in PvP while it should make PvP alot more entertaining, especially for non PvP experts, who used to die at NW or any other mass PvP nearly instantly and had no real chance to "check things out". That is why assist removal only in PvP situations is a good step, imo.
    If you remove follow in general - then it'll harm all other aspects, especially PvM, and I'm against it due to several reasons.

    Multiboxing should be totally forbidden in PvP. Why? Because it gives an "advantage over normal" to any player who does it. You can multilog, but not perform ANY actions from more than ONE character at a time, even tho final effects can be stacked "perk delays, nano casting delays and other". And it doesn't really matter if you automate targeting or not. As long as you fire perks or specials or regulars same time from multiple characters using ANY possible ways to do so - it's technically "cheating" and shouldn't be allowed, end of story.

    I know what I am talking about. I used to play 6 accounts for years with pure manual control without any 3rd part software. Then (6 months before I've quitted) I've started using hotkeynet and I've seen REAL difference between manual and automated control in both, PvM and PvP situations. And even tho I was extremely effective on manual control - difference is HUGE.

    The only reason why multiboxing should be allowed in PvM - is extremely low average playerbase-per-content nowadays, since it's better to have multiboxer with you to make things done in specific instance than to wait for hours without guarantees to do the same content.
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  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Cratertina View Post
    Well, if you guys really want to bann multiboxing... sign a petition that you will subscribe extra accounts to make up for lost revenue and put your hard earned $ and € where your mouth is.

    Prove to funcom that extra 10k€ will be generated from the bann... Maybe something will happen.

    But while purposing solutions that provide anger in community, loss of revenue, expenditure in chasing milliseconds around, wasting GM time, breaking gameplay... That is not a solution... its extra work, for net loss of revenue.
    The amount of people that would resub just from that fix alone would make a substantial increase compared to the handful of people that are capable of multi boxing successfully. Majority of multi boxers pay using grace with credits they farm in the multi box or have already paid a year subscription in which case they lose that money if they get banned. So your point is invalid.

  15. #95
    I disagree that multi boxing should be allowed in Pvm. These players will always have control over the games economy as long as multi boxing is permitted. It's got to go

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Mudsprite View Post
    The amount of people that would resub just from that fix alone would make a substantial increase compared to the handful of people that are capable of multi boxing successfully. Majority of multi boxers pay using grace with credits they farm in the multi box or have already paid a year subscription in which case they lose that money if they get banned. So your point is invalid.
    Are you trying to say grace is not revenue?

    And yearly sub does not count?

    News for you every grace comes from money paid to FC. Yearly sub is a sub, just like monthly. Cheating your costomers who paid gor gametime is big no-no in any MMO.

    Granted the way to do this is carefully impose limitations on how is mboxing allowed. Catering to the community.

    Accurate understanding or majority of playerbase is hard to achieve especially when forum comments have a fairly negative bias. While positive bias is found ingame where people actually play and have fun.

    Player economy btw right now is not controlled by mboxers, i know for fact most richest peeps around are singleboxing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Michizure View Post
    This'll be fixed for the next patch

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Cratertina View Post
    Are you trying to say grace is not revenue?

    And yearly sub does not count?

    News for you every grace comes from money paid to FC. Yearly sub is a sub, just like monthly. Cheating your costomers who paid gor gametime is big no-no in any MMO.

    Granted the way to do this is carefully impose limitations on how is mboxing allowed. Catering to the community.

    Accurate understanding or majority of playerbase is hard to achieve especially when forum comments have a fairly negative bias. While positive bias is found ingame where people actually play and have fun.

    Player economy btw right now is not controlled by mboxers, i know for fact most richest peeps around are singleboxing.
    A yearly sub has already been payed for and is no refundable. If you get a suspension or permanently banned for abusing the game mechanics that is YOUR forfeiture of your play time. You can spin it how you want but it's not "cheating your customers" . If Grace is purchased with credits farmed by cheaters (scroll up to find the official reference to multi boxers as cheaters) they deserve a ban pretty simple. Fun com banned several veteran players some of which who had accounts since pre sl. The new trend of cheating won't be shown mercy or sympathy based on population or subscriptions anyone who thinks otherwise is silly. The in game player base (the one I log into every day) shares the same sentiment about multi boxers. Those who don't are multi boxers go figure. Multi boxers pay for their own accounts, farm their own raids and care only about themselves and their own prosperity that ultimately contradicts their purpose. If you think your 100$. A month in multi box gimps that drive away 1,000s in potential revenue for the game is your leverage to maintain your ability to cheat and "solo" the game you will find swiftly that you are mistaken.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Cratertina View Post

    Player economy btw right now is not controlled by mboxers, i know for fact most richest peeps around are singleboxing.
    Please share these FACTS?

  19. #99
    multiboxing in pvm will always be a thing.

    However as credits slowly get eaten up, their effect will slowly diminish as nobody can afford the hundreds of millions they are charging for lootrights.

    Soon there will be no point multiboxing in pvm as nobody will be able to pay you enough for it to be worth it.

  20. #100
    Currently one of the most lucrative sources of cash is to farm high ql pearls in new infernos with a multi box. That does not depend on the players for income rather the game itself. Complex raiding systems where we don't just stand still and shoot or occasionally switch targets is what is needed to fort a multi boxers ability to complete a raid on its own. The new dungeon will be an example of this as it will likely be difficult for a multi boxers to enter past the first stage that requires actions on several team members to grant access.

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