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Thread: Analysis of FPs in 18.8

  1. #1

    Analysis of FPs in 18.8

    It has always been my dream that every FP would be viable and usable. Sadly, this is not the case at the moment.
    Also, with the recent changes to True Profession and FP mechanics many of the previous concerns about Agents using certain long duration nanos or 3-4 FPs in a row are no longer valid.
    I will be looking at the PvM and TL7 PvP benefits of each of the FPs. I hope to be able to answer when you should use each FP and what it needs to be viable.

    Adventurer
    PvM
    When should you use it?
    • One word, versatility. You can use it to heal, tank, dd, or pull. Other FPs are more effective at roles, but this one is good for any secondary role.

    What does it need?
    • The ability to use lower two Leet Calms (1,2) would be very useful, but not necessary.

    PvP
    When should you use it?
    • Again, versatility. You get both consistent AR and Def from the morphs respectively and you can quickly switch between them based on opponents
    • This is one of the best options for BS, but expect to use sneak often.

    What does it need?
    • This FP suffers from being too average. Without the perk defenses available to Advys the amount of healing is simply not sufficient for any extended fighting. That being said, there are no nanos that would help while being fair to Advys.

    Bureaucrat
    PvM
    When should you use it?
    • This FP is amazing for PvM. In my opinion Shackles of Obedience is the best nano in the game. Combined with Agent Snare Perks you can essentially be immune to any melee mob (including Alb Keeper). Charm anything you can.

    What does it need?
    • It would be really nice to be able to cast some of the lower AAO/AAD Motivational speeches (1 or 2) (even if they are cleared on TP) so that you can buff your charms.
    • One of the lower Malaise nanos would take it to the next level (1).

    PvP
    When should you use it?
    • This FP is not useful in PvP. There is no reason to consider it in the current state and it could only ever be a TP at best.

    What does it need?
    • It could be used as a TP if Agents got access to some of the AAO/AAD Motivational speeches (1,2) but they would have to not be cleared by TP.

    Doctor
    PvM
    When should you use it?
    • This is the ubiquitous solo PvM FP. If you need to tank damage solo, this is absolutely the FP you should use.

    What does it need?
    • At TL7 the healing is quite low compared to what others can do. Perhaps Mimic: Doctor should get some %Heal Efficiency added if lvl > 215.
    • I would love to see the entire Doctor Short HP Buff line (Life Channeler) changed to be a team buff. It is too hard to maintain on 6 players.

    PvP
    When should you use it?
    • This is the go-to FP of many Agents for PvP. It provides the best healing of all options which helps mitigate our lack of defenses. If you are dying a lot, go FP Doc to die slightly less.

    What does it need?
    • The only improvement that could be made is access to SL heals (1)

    Enforcer
    PvM
    When should you use it?
    • If you need to be a dedicated tank you can do a suitable job with FP Enfo.

    What does it need?
    • Additional scaling on Mongo Crush! It is the best AOE taunt we can cast, but is still a bit too low to keep aggro sufficiently. By increasing the scaling up to 1500 PM you could increase the taunt value all the way up to 16000 without taking away from Enfos.

    PvP
    When should you use it?
    • Use this if you want to perk murder someone and then run away. This is the ultimate ganker FP.

    What does it need?
    • Enfos in general are a bit weak in PvP at the moment. You will have the same problems that they have, but with less HP and heal delta and it cannot be fixed with nanos.

    Engineer
    PvM
    When should you use it?
    • There is the extremely rare case where you might want to use NSD in PvM. Otherwise, other FPs are better in every situation.

    What does it need?
    • Access to SL reflects up to the second highest (1). This gives you Soldier for RK reflects, Engi for SL reflects, and keeps you sufficiently weak compared to the real professions.

    PvP
    When should you use it?
    • Use it as your TP if you're faced with a lot of Soldiers and you need to use NSD. This will give you decent reflects and the ability to fight back against your biggest counter.

    What does it need?
    • Access to the lowest self only refreshing blockers (1)

    Fixer
    PvM
    When should you use it?
    • You have access to instant grid, runspeed buffs on RK and SL, B&E buffs, and short HoTs so it is very solid for blitzing.
    • A very skilled Agent can use Experienced Survivor and Wake Up Call in 12m in place of a Keeper.

    What does it need?
    • Long HoTs all the way up to HnQ (1). Seriously, it would work amazingly in combination with other FPs. It's not like you can't already just bug a Fixer for this or a better buff.

    PvP
    When should you use it?
    • It used to be an amazing 2nd TP, now its just an OK TP. Use it for fear resist, NCU, and runspeed.

    What does it need?
    • Long HoTs. This is the simplest change that could put Fixer as a serious contender for regular TP use.

    Martial Artist
    PvM
    When should you use it?
    • This used to be one of the best options as a damage FP, but Agents got so much love on crit buffs that it's just not useful anymore. Changing damage type is OK, but Chaotic Modulation is still good enough for things like Biodome.
    • This has the best team heal available to Agents, but I still think the buffs from Doc more than make up for it.
    • It makes an OK TP because of evade buffs and you can squeeze out a tiny bit more damage with some static buffs.

    What does it need?
    • I have no idea. Zazen would make it top notch, but I don't think that's fair to MAs.
    • Maybe Bow buffs (1)could help out some of the Bow Agents out there.

    PvP
    When should you use it?
    • The NR buff and RI can be useful as a TP.

    What does it need?
    • Again, I have no idea. We already got access to other nanos that are better than almost any reason we would use MA. I think this is doomed to mediocrity for now.

    Meta-Physicist
    PvM
    When should you use it?
    • Use it all the time! Get a Heal Pet, put out an Attack Pet, let them hit stuff. There are no downsides to this.
    • You can NSD nuking mobs such as certain PBs.

    What does it need?
    • Some of the pet buffs would be very helpful. Especially some of the lower QL pet defensive buffs (1) and Short Term Damage Buffs (Evocations, not Animas) (1).
    • Some of the lower Damage Debuffs Line A (1) and B (1)

    PvP
    When should you use it?
    • Any time you think you can get out a pet and not have it killed without you being able to resummon it. Because the pet can be easily killed it's not really viable as an FP.

    What does it need?
    • There's not really anything to change. You certainly don't want Agents using DtP nanos.

    Nano Technician
    PvM
    When should you use it?
    • When you want to spam AOE nukes to kite or top damage charts in raid situations (APF). Your +dmg can make you do more damage than NTs casting the same nuke (but at TL7 they have better nukes).
    • If you use NS2 cleverly you can use it as a decent emergency defense. Blinds are also very solid.
    • Nano Cost and Nano Regen buffs are very welcome to Agents because of the Mimic debuffs.

    What does it need?
    • Nothing. This is very viable, albeit niche, in PvM.

    PvP
    When should you use it?
    • You can surprise someone with NS2 in PvP, but you can only surprise them once. You can use it as a TP if you're nano starved.

    What does it need?
    • This one is tricky. You can't give Agents access to Cyberdeck nukes or DtN nanos. The best thing we could ask for is some of the old NT staple nukes like Resonance Blast or Candycane. An Agent has to give up practically all defense in order to use these nukes.
    • You could maybe make a case for Nanobot Shelter for a casting focused TP with a tiny bit of defense without messing up balance too much.

    Soldier
    PvM
    When should you use it?
    • TMS covers a multitude of sins. Use this if you're accidentally pulling Aggro, or while tanking certain encounters.

    What does it need?
    • I was stunned to learn we can no longer cast the replacement to OMHH (now called Don't Fear the Reaper). This is a travesty in my mind and needs fixed. We need one of the two heals, and I don't really care which one.
    • Better single taunts (1,2).
    • The lower QL new grenades (1) would be nice.
    • Somewhere we need to get SL reflects, either here (1) or Engi.

    PvP
    When should you use it?
    • This is the undisputed best all-around TP in the game right now.
    • This FP also makes a semi-viable defensive FP that you can use in place of Doc if you want to be a bit lazier but less effective or don't have the equip to support Mimic Doc.

    What does it need?
    • One of the heals (1,2)

    Trader
    PvM
    When should you use it?
    • If you're not at MBS with your weapon, or are using an alternative weapon (i.e. Bow) then Trader is your friend.
    • Tradeskill buffs.
    • Arguably the best RK calms you can cast.
    • Subpar healing, but you do have healing.

    What does it need?
    • AAO debuffs back on the Divest and Plunder lines for the PvM version of the nano.
    • Better Health Haggler (1)
    • The lowest SL Calm (1)
    • Some of the lower massive AC debuffs (1)

    PvP
    When should you use it?
    • You can use it to some effect in PvP for pretty massive AR, but Traders are really struggling in PvP at the moment. You will too.

    What does it need?
    • Lots and lots. In the current state I doubt it is ever a viable TL7 PvP FP even if we could cast every nano since we, like they, will die long before we land them all.

    Agent
    PvM
    When should you use it?
    • Never. Seriously there are not many reasons you would ever PvM without using a Mimic. There are no PvM encounters that require FP Agent, so in every case you're better off using a Mimic.

    PvP
    When should you use it?
    • The synergy is clear. Go all in for a huge gank, pop your escape nano, use Repressor, sneak, and walk out.

    What does it need?
    • The nano requirements for Disappear need lowered. Previously your choice was to use the top or a lower nano based on nanoskills due to the FP debuff. With the mechanics now changing based on FP or not FP the nano requirements need lowered because the choice to use Disappear and no FP or Slip Away and yes FP is no longer meaningful.
    • Also, Agent mode really only has one trick. Because of the way that perks and keybinds work, you are still likely to die even if you use Repressor. Ideally using repressor would give you significant damage reduction for 30 seconds or until you break sneak to make up for this.
    Last edited by sultryvoltron; Jun 26th, 2015 at 23:12:07. Reason: Formatting
    The Fine Arts:
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    Xirayne: I couldn't care less about who is clueless or what the exact definition "real" pvp is in ao, I want "fun" pvp!

  2. #2
    Here's some notes from leveling Froob in TL4 for those leveling up from my experience (don't have PvP feedback, sorry). Using Assume and Mimic.

    Adventurer - Decent.
    With heals and morphs, mainly looking at cat for Attack Rating and some (more) stackable damage buffs. Heals are decent to extend longevity. Wolf buffs won't be strong enough to add much survivability and Leet doesn't scale strong enough at these level.

    Bureaucrat - Poor
    Not much reason to use unless running Mochams to use high level charms. Calms are nice and improved roots and snares bolster Agent strength, but these are niche tools.

    Doctor - Great
    Heals and Hot are better than pets, allowing clutch healing on demand. HP buffs are great for extra cushion. Can also play with stacking DoTs with enough NanoC Init where they insta-cast.

    Enforcer - Great
    Massive HP boost (effectively doubling HP at certain points), 4 hr Init buff, more inits in Rage, HoT in Mongo line, absorption line (almost redundant with the massive HP buffs), plus access to Challenger (though be careful to use it only when damaged and attack pet is attacking so pets stay active during nano shutdown). Damage shield is more HP, but damage shields are bad with roots and snares.

    Engineer - Poor
    Passive reflects, more AC. Doesn't add up to anything compulsory. Other professions are better.

    Fixer - Decent
    Use this for Run Speed (assuming there aren't Fixers by the grids in major cities) and the lower QL NCU buffs (since Froob Agents never have enough NCU). Short Term HoTs don't really add anything remarkable. Access to better Snares has some value, but still not enough to run this.

    Martial Artist - Poor
    Before the Agent retool of 18.7 was useful for crit buffs. Evades and heals are a plus, but there is nothing you get from this form that you can't get elsewhere except the damage buffs that change damage type.

    Meta Physicist - Great*
    This is what form you use when you first log on to play. Get both pets and buff them with evades and the attack pet buffs (plus buff your pets with you buffs as +6-11% crit helps the attack pet, and you offer another damage buff). Can also use the cost reducer (this is better than wasting an belt slot on a Hardcore CPU Upgrade). Discontinue using so long as your pets are alive with their 4hr buffs still up and use another FP.

    Nanotechnician - Niche
    Access to Nullity Sphere and absorption (plus a good evasion buff and blinds) are good defensive abilities, but they require active use for the most part. With high run speed, you can also kite like an NT. An interesting possibility is open to high Nano Point Agents, dropping insta-cast nukes between rifle shots for substantial damage gains. Probably has a lot of potential in the right hands.

    Soldier - Great
    Reflects offer good defense, but made better with TMS. Also access to 4 hr Automatic Targeting for more Attack Rating, Total Focus for more weapon skills, and unlike most Soldiers you can use the HP buffs. Don't forget to buff you pets too for more power.

    Trader - Decent*
    Trader drains are good to maintain higher weapon skills, but are Nano Point intensive at these level and require high NanoC Init for instant cast, plus high maintenance required. Evade buff is strong, but using too much more of the toolset may be too NCU intensive. Note that if using high QL Turn Spirit weapons or 000 weapons, Trader drains may be mandatory to keep from being OE. Like NT, Trader has a lot of potential.

    Agent -
    No reason to stay Agent except at the end of your play session to start fresh next time. Accept that you are an MP with a rifle and access to some other profession's kit.
    Last edited by siraronar; Jun 27th, 2015 at 05:06:56.

  3. #3
    OP, Maybe we can use your format and build a cooperative list? adding to your already good points.

    I think the most efficient way to fix us is by asking something simple to the programmer mind, the most economical way is just to edit nano requirements to make us able to FP something new, instead of a rework of things like perks, or making new armor or content.

    I will post my comments later.

  4. #4
    Can someone give me like...the cliff notes version of what changes agents now deal with over the last...mm...2 years? Logged in today and couldn't help but notice CH now has a 30 second cool down. Also looks like MR has a 2 second 500AAO only delay before the +1500 kicks in. Anything else monumentally change? I'll probably never play my agent again outside of mass pvp (which is probably dead?) anyways...
    220/30/70 - Atrox Agent - Tinypain
    220/30/70 - Atrox Keeper - Ivekeeper
    220/25/70 - Atrox Fixer - Zedy
    220/30/70 - Solitus Soldier - Tequiila
    172/20/35 - Nanomage Agent - Nanocide
    Storm

  5. #5
    Nice list, Art!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tinypain View Post
    Can someone give me like...the cliff notes version of what changes agents now deal with over the last...mm...2 years? Logged in today and couldn't help but notice CH now has a 30 second cool down. Also looks like MR has a 2 second 500AAO only delay before the +1500 kicks in. Anything else monumentally change? I'll probably never play my agent again outside of mass pvp (which is probably dead?) anyways...
    Basically, you are a lean, mean, ganking machine. The perk lines which were trash before are now situationally really good. Many perk setups are viable.
    Downside is you're tasty hamburger. Once you've blown your CH, pretty much anyone can kill you. Use Lifegiving Elixer (buffed), snare perks, roots, and evac (has AAD/NR) to survive until the next one. Watch out for the onehander; you lost your crit-resist.

    MPs have a 100% reflect, no more blockers, and can dual Zset. NTs have an extra nuke which lets Garuk penetrate reflects. MAs can heal almost at the level of a doc, at the sacrifice of being perkable.
    Soldier AMS has 500 damage; don't hit it. Traders can fully drain you in ~4s.
    Enfo "non-sploit" alpha got nerfed, advs got love, docs have much more damage, fixers can reliably purge you, Kippurs now have SA and are a lot tougher to crack.

    You can see everyone's NCU. Turn off "hostile only" to see the important stuff. Evasive stance cycles a lot faster now. Keepers can pull you to them, Enfos can jump on you.

    Solitus is seriously nice now, Opi is way worse. Trox is pretty good. NM is situational.

    This help?

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by srompu View Post
    Nice list, Art!



    Basically, you are a lean, mean, ganking machine. The perk lines which were trash before are now situationally really good. Many perk setups are viable.
    Downside is you're tasty hamburger. Once you've blown your CH, pretty much anyone can kill you. Use Lifegiving Elixer (buffed), snare perks, roots, and evac (has AAD/NR) to survive until the next one. Watch out for the onehander; you lost your crit-resist.

    MPs have a 100% reflect, no more blockers, and can dual Zset. NTs have an extra nuke which lets Garuk penetrate reflects. MAs can heal almost at the level of a doc, at the sacrifice of being perkable.
    Soldier AMS has 500 damage; don't hit it. Traders can fully drain you in ~4s.
    Enfo "non-sploit" alpha got nerfed, advs got love, docs have much more damage, fixers can reliably purge you, Kippurs now have SA and are a lot tougher to crack.

    You can see everyone's NCU. Turn off "hostile only" to see the important stuff. Evasive stance cycles a lot faster now. Keepers can pull you to them, Enfos can jump on you.

    Solitus is seriously nice now, Opi is way worse. Trox is pretty good. NM is situational.

    This help?
    It helps. So we can see non-hostile nanos running in other people's NCU? Agent only ability? Seems with the perkline changes they made agents into ranged shades with no defense..
    220/30/70 - Atrox Agent - Tinypain
    220/30/70 - Atrox Keeper - Ivekeeper
    220/25/70 - Atrox Fixer - Zedy
    220/30/70 - Solitus Soldier - Tequiila
    172/20/35 - Nanomage Agent - Nanocide
    Storm

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Tinypain View Post
    It helps. So we can see non-hostile nanos running in other people's NCU? Agent only ability? Seems with the perkline changes they made agents into ranged shades with no defense..
    Everyone can see ncu.
    Number
    Sliza
    Chewy

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