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Thread: Maybe fix nt

  1. #41
    I quoted the relevant part of your post, but thanks for making sure I'm on my quoting game.

    Anyway... It's not like "Release me now" is the only root breaker in the game. There are a multitude of options to break them, and recharge associated make them a pretty undesirable choice for nt's to use as a normal tactic anyway. But, we could bicker about small stuff for weeks, and get no where.

    Three posts in, and you've just repeated yourself. I want specifics. Also, judging by your posts, I'd say you're coming from a Soldier perspective. I've just agreed on adjusting Pierce Reflect, so are just going for a full mile since I've budged an inch, or is this a legitimate complaint that you can provide more detail on?
    Vinkera - Soli NT - 426k DPM - Setup
    Robbey - Soli Crat

    Lone anarchists - Tower of Babil

    Celez - Soli Doc
    Loaloa - Soli Enf
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  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Vinkera View Post
    I quoted the relevant part of your post, but thanks for making sure I'm on my quoting game.

    Anyway... It's not like "Release me now" is the only root breaker in the game. There are a multitude of options to break them, and recharge associated make them a pretty undesirable choice for nt's to use as a normal tactic anyway. But, we could bicker about small stuff for weeks, and get no where.

    Three posts in, and you've just repeated yourself. I want specifics. Also, judging by your posts, I'd say you're coming from a Soldier perspective. I've just agreed on adjusting Pierce Reflect, so are just going for a full mile since I've budged an inch, or is this a legitimate complaint that you can provide more detail on?
    As an Agent, roots feel like a legit waste of casting time now. In that respect I can understand NT's position. With the exception of pets and fleeing enemies, I generally find my recharge time to be better spent on a different nano.

    Agent's have a pretty easy root to land and I find it countered, resisted, or removed very often.
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  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Jovial View Post
    I'm not quite sure you know exactly what "emergency" means... You practically named every nano in the Trader's entire toolset and declare it, "for emergency use, only." Also, with the exception of Divest, nearly all of those offensive nanos you listed are 100+% NR (Plunder is 130%). I can go an entire BS without landing Plunder on anyone, so declaring that an "emergency" nano is like putting a fire extinguisher inside a locked metal cabinet in case there's a fire. That's not a good "emergency case" solution.

    What are NTs doing while Traders are trying to land their 100+% nanos? Probably letting their cat walk across their keyboard, thereby nuking the Trader into oblivion with 53% NR nanos for 30% of their life in each hit.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cdogg421 View Post
    let's expand on this past the emergency part, and add the emergency nanos you didn't include.

    the point of my post was a look at all the defensive actions, not just the emergency ones. hes trying to single out a single nano and compare it to a few other things when there is so much more apart from "emergency" nanos. and if your having a hard time landing 100% check nanos on targets after getting buffed by 700 points from your drains, then you should change something up because that's weak. my nt has around 2400 pm and ts, and you can add 700 to that.
    Former Assistant Director of Pack of Noobs

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  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Cdogg421 View Post
    the point of my post was a look at all the defensive actions, not just the emergency ones. hes trying to single out a single nano and compare it to a few other things when there is so much more apart from "emergency" nanos. and if your having a hard time landing 100% check nanos on targets after getting buffed by 700 points from your drains, then you should change something up because that's weak. my nt has around 2400 pm and ts, and you can add 700 to that.
    You do realise that Traders, despite being a nano casting profession, literally have some of the worst Nanoskills in the game right?
    Pricecuts - 220 Trader
    Feel free to contact me via PM or in-game.

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    Tip #743: As noted in Tip #244, tea bags have an infinite variety of uses. However, there's always one jerk who will want to give you crap over drinking tea. Particularly if in a new town, use this as an opportunity to assert yourself. Any drunken idiot can win a bar fight. It takes a real man to win a bar fight while enjoying a cup of Earl Grey.

  5. #45
    Some random thoughts....

    NT's are shining in 220 BS as more often that not you are running into an NT that is able to offload a significant chunk of their alpha and the likelihood is that you will have part of your toolset on CD. If you are lonewolfing it up on BS then you're not likely to have a favorable outcome, especially if the NT is rolling with 1 or more other people an/or if the NT gets the drop on you with your forementioned toolset CD's active. If there is more than 1 NT (which is the norm atm), then things do become a bit harder to rationalise; a 2+ NT wrecking crew will make most people have a horrible day...and there doesn't really seem to be a simple solution to it without nerfing NTs to oblivion. Maybe depreciating damage for multiple Garuk's / doubles etc on target? Then again no other special gets locked out on a target, multiple AS's suck donkey #### too and if it's good for the goose, it's good for the gander....

    Things don't need much more than a tweak in a 1v1 situation and if we can get the pierce reflect window dealt with, then I think it's safe to say that alot of the arguments go away.

    Would an evades nerf on aegis be too harsh / or help balance that (would want to see evades nerf for coon too then :-p )

    btw who is actually dieing to a def focus nt at 220?
    Last edited by hmmz0r; Jun 17th, 2015 at 00:06:55.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by sultryvoltron View Post
    As an Agent, roots feel like a legit waste of casting time now. In that respect I can understand NT's position. With the exception of pets and fleeing enemies, I generally find my recharge time to be better spent on a different nano.

    Agent's have a pretty easy root to land and I find it countered, resisted, or removed very often.
    To go kind of off topic for a moment...

    I did suggest that the root nanoline was changed for, not only NT's, but traders, fixers, and of course agents. I suggested the recharges were all changed to 2 seconds with 6-8 second line cooldown (or there abouts... This was a while ago now.) However, no one really picked it up and ran with it, so I pretty much let it die.
    Vinkera - Soli NT - 426k DPM - Setup
    Robbey - Soli Crat

    Lone anarchists - Tower of Babil

    Celez - Soli Doc
    Loaloa - Soli Enf
    Wondershot - Nano Soldier
    Robzor - Soli Engi
    Proserpexa - Opi Agent

    Trying out civilization - Storm

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Cdogg421 View Post
    and if your having a hard time landing 100% check nanos on targets after getting buffed by 700 points from your drains, then you should change something up because that's weak. my nt has around 2400 pm and ts, and you can add 700 to that.
    Is that what we're doing, starting with the end result as a means of getting there in the first place? We have a hard time landing 100% and, especially, 130% NR nanos because we don't yet have +700 nano skills, because we get resisted. I mean, you get what I'm saying... right?

  8. #48
    Did they fix predraining on yourself then? Back when I was actively pvping traders would predrain off themselves in decon and then clear the hostile part with a sitdown kit. Does that not work anymore?

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazy View Post
    Did they fix predraining on yourself then? Back when I was actively pvping traders would predrain off themselves in decon and then clear the hostile part with a sitdown kit. Does that not work anymore?
    Nope, totally removed.
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    Feel free to contact me via PM or in-game.

    Raggy - 220 Bureaucrat || Raggeh - 220 Fixer | Back as 'Raggys' - Shade for the time being. | Nuclei - 217 Nanotechnician || Nanobiology - 214 Doctor

    Tip #743: As noted in Tip #244, tea bags have an infinite variety of uses. However, there's always one jerk who will want to give you crap over drinking tea. Particularly if in a new town, use this as an opportunity to assert yourself. Any drunken idiot can win a bar fight. It takes a real man to win a bar fight while enjoying a cup of Earl Grey.

  10. #50
    Ah sucks for you guys then carry on complaining ^^

  11. #51
    i was assuming the pre-draining was still a thing as well, i retract what i said about having the 700 already. if that's the case then traders could use some love there, lower check or a better nr debuff
    Former Assistant Director of Pack of Noobs

    Fake Friday with Means, and it worked!

  12. #52
    ITT: people who play terrible broken professions trying to ruin one of the few good ones
    I am wiser than any god or scientist, for I have squared the circle and cubed Earth's sphere, thus I have created 4 simultaneous separate 24 hour days within a 4-corner (as in a 4-corner classroom) rotation of Earth. See for yourself the absolute proof.

  13. #53
    Evaders can dodge hits, healers can outheal damage, but there is no resist for NT attack - literally you run with 0 or 200 NR if twinked intwo NR vs NT on BS. So, each hit around 4k with nuke while NT can tank single target pretty much for whole fight/duel makes them OP.

    I was whining about agents - they have massive alpha, but when I think, what class I would twink now at 200, it would be NT - it has more survivavibilty overall, and seems more devastating damage to all classes (becasue -NR debuff). Besides, NTs kill agents ^^
    I like PvP
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  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by drainbamage View Post
    ITT: people who play terrible broken professions trying to ruin one of the few good ones
    No u

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Pomidor View Post
    Evaders can dodge hits, healers can outheal damage, but there is no resist for NT attack - literally you run with 0 or 200 NR if twinked intwo NR vs NT on BS. So, each hit around 4k with nuke while NT can tank single target pretty much for whole fight/duel makes them OP.

    I was whining about agents - they have massive alpha, but when I think, what class I would twink now at 200, it would be NT - it has more survivavibilty overall, and seems more devastating damage to all classes (becasue -NR debuff). Besides, NTs kill agents ^^
    Most Evaders have a reliable form of healing/stun/cc they can use even WHILE doing damage, too. NT's "one-lane" gameplay makes it harsher on both sides as we have to choose between damage and most other parts of our toolset. We rely on low duration, high power mechanics by class design.

    By the way.. the NT you mentioned killing off Agent+Shade+Almost you.. he was likely in Defensive Focus and you were trying to hit him through NS 2 instead of moving away. That makes it entirely your fault. If you had waited that out (no way he would spend over 20 secs rooting all 3 + the doc), he would have been vulnerable to the rather respectable alpha of the three of you.
    It just sounds so ridiculous when I know very well what happens to my NT (at 220, anyway) if I try to pull that off on people who understand that hitting through NS is a bad idea..

    It's hard to understand how limited NT's can be and how to stop them easily without playing one, I guess. I do fairly well vs. NT's even on subpar characters that I'm leveling.. I know their weak spots and how to cause them to get there. You should prolly work on doing the very same.
    Michizure is love, Michizure is life.
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  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Aiken View Post
    DigitalBath Walls of text does NOT mean you are correct. I stand by every word of my last post.
    Dude, really?

    Ignoring information does NOT help you understand a situation either. My posts are larger for a reason.

    I could very well just say "nah, what you're saying is completely false and misinformed" and make it a one-line post.
    People would then have to figure out all the false information they're providing by themselves, though.. and that seems to just not happen lately. A good amount haven't even gotten around to understand what Def and Off focus are and what they lock out, as they keep mentioning stuff like NS2 and Doubles being used together.

    Condensing my posts a bit would be cool but I sometimes just don't have the time / patience for it.
    Michizure is love, Michizure is life.
    --
    Dywas - 220/30/70 Neutral Nanomage Nano-Technician
    Caramela - 220/30/70 Neutral Solitus Doctor
    Desejos - 220/30/?? Neutral Atrox Enforcer
    Gretchenross - 220/30/?? Neutral Opifex Shade
    Bizzle - 220/30/70 Neutral Atrox Soldier

    --<3 Professional love--
    * Aiken pets Lazy on the head. Sure it is, you keep telling self that
    <Aiken> such a cutesy clammer aren't you *cheekpinch*
    <Lazy>
    <Lazy> viva la revolucion
    * Dywas decides to walk away from the soon-to-be sexytime
    <Aiken> lol Dywas, Id make a man of him
    <Lazy> Dywas, i'd go gay for aiken. no lie

  17. #57
    DigitalBath - he was NOT UNDER NSII - I know how to use tools in this game aswell as play proffesions I chosed.

    6 second sure hit for 4200 dmg, which can't be resisted or countered, which go through AC's and ignores reflect is owerpowered.

    Now, I just leaved BS with my Keeper. Saw everyone died to NTs (5 NTs in this BS). Just quick paste damage dealt on me - note I have 10360 HP.
    You were healed for 260 points.
    You were attacked with nanobots from Karnadas for 1834 points of radiation damage.
    You were attacked with nanobots from Karnadas for 2322 points of radiation damage.
    Your damage shield hit Karnadas for 22 points of damage.
    You were attacked with nanobots from Karnadas for 877 points of radiation damage.
    You tried to hit Karnadas, but missed!
    You were healed for 706 points.
    Someone's reflect shield hit you for 49 points of damage.
    You hit Karnadas with nanobots for 388 points of radiation damage.
    You were healed for 260 points.
    You were attacked with nanobots from Karnadas for 2206 points of radiation damage.
    You were attacked with nanobots from Karnadas for 1670 points of radiation damage.
    Someone's reflect shield hit you for 49 points of damage.
    In return, I alphaed him for like less then 2k. Cant do more dmg before I am dead, and even if, my big alpha is absorbed by NanobotDepletion (or what its called). So NT at TL6 is not GlassCannon, it is I-Win Button.

    I will just make NT twink now or rise my 100, not used. It was funny to see all those dead shades in 2 hits running away like chickens when NT aimed them
    Last edited by Pomidor; Jun 17th, 2015 at 20:46:04.
    I like PvP
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    TL5: Miazga 150 sol / Piknababa 150 NM Enf 2he / Gigantika 150 NM Enf / Malutki 150 Enf Trox WIP
    TL4: Ladyrazor 112 fixer (retired) / Shha 100 NT / Cycolina lvl 100 NM Enforcer
    + Tons of other chars...
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  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Pomidor View Post
    Now, I just leaved BS with my Keeper. Saw everyone died to NTs (5 NTs in this BS). Just quick paste damage dealt on me - note I have 10360 HP.
    I thought your Keeper was 200 ? That's terribly low, I have more without Crusade/Blessing on my 150 Keeper.

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  19. #59
    Its Solitus Keeper twinked into evades (got 1790 atm, but not finished character). Also got 1680NR with 740 AAD - thats why I have this low HP. Can rise it around 1k more or less. Anyway - even with BC and more HP its 3 hits more from NT so 12-15 seconds life?
    I like PvP
    TL6: Tereshkova 200 eng / Patrollerz 200 sol / Tankietka 200 NM enf / Pielegniarka 200 Tank Doc / Oleska 200 SOLIKeep
    TL5: Miazga 150 sol / Piknababa 150 NM Enf 2he / Gigantika 150 NM Enf / Malutki 150 Enf Trox WIP
    TL4: Ladyrazor 112 fixer (retired) / Shha 100 NT / Cycolina lvl 100 NM Enforcer
    + Tons of other chars...
    I make weird TwInkz!
    Signature updated: 29/06/2016

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Vinkera View Post
    Actually, "just nuke until one of you dies" is the whole idea behind a glass cannon.

    In general, the issue I have with all your posts is that you're now mentioning two completely different topics, and trying to bundle them into one "problem"... Damage and survivability. Also, I follow the forum pretty closely, and other than Soldiers, no one has said much of anything regarding NT's, so I'm not sure where this massive epiphany is coming from. When 18.7 wasn't live yet, we were tested pretty throughly, and progress was covered extensively, by me. It's not like anything you're seeing now is a surprise.
    No, kill and get out is the idea behind a glass cannon. Bash it until one of you dies applies to everything, and if ever seems like a legit strat, it's a mirror matchup or you're OP.

    The issue is one and the same. Agent has a big alpha but horrible squishiness. Keeper evades and heals are countered by a weak alpha and low dodge. MPs choose literal offense vs defense when they decide on 0, 1, or 2 shields. Doesn't mean they're balanced, just means it's a package.
    The damage output of an offensive focus NT seems too high in comparison to their defense. This doesn't mean they're broken as hell and need to be deleted, it just means they need some tuning down.

    I've never seen you in game, on test, or PvPing, even if I wanted to send you a /tell.

    Dritst is an excellent PvPer on many toons, and has a NT. If he and other long-term PvPers show up on the forums saying NT seems a little uber, you should be asking a lot of questions instead of telling him how doubles work.

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