Maybe fix nt

[DigitalBath]

Agents and Shades are getting tossed around in this thread as if the three professions are comparable. Here's the main reason that they are not:
For an Agent or Shade to be able to deliver their devastating alphas they need to be able to land perks on people which operate on pass/fail checks. Thus, the most optimal ganking setups are max AR which significantly reduces the defense of both professions. They have to make serious gear/perk/setup changes to be effective in an offensive or defensive setup. Once you know that an Agent is in a certain setup you have the power of knowledge and can make adjustments accordingly because they are locked into that setup.

I find them quite comparable. I can switch my shade from full defensive to full offensive gear on the spot anywhere within the decon timer and with a lesser cooldown. Agents I am out of tune with and will not comment on. I don't know if there's a defensive and an offensive setup being used or not.

This is not true for NTs. The optimal Offensive Focus setup is essentially the same as the optimal Defensive Focus setup. An NT makes no gear/equipment sacrifices to switch from Offense to Defense Focus. They go from one of the top alphas in the game to one of the top defenses in the game by waiting 2 minutes. In duels they can easily select the preferred Focus based on who they are fighting, and they have the ability to throw a curveball from one duel to the next. In BS you can expect that they will be offensive focus from a previous round only to find that they are now using defensive focus. You can no longer rely on your knowledge of NT players' setups to optimize your play.

This is not actually true and the gear for a NT who plays mostly defensive focus will be more centered in higher hp/nano/%damage while most offensive focus NT's will either capitalize on full %dmg or go for full evades and AAD (usually gets them slightly under 3k static def) depending on their playstyle. Most go for the evades from what I have been able to look up.

You can say a thousand times the ways to kill an offensive or defensive focus NT, but you cannot implement these strategies until the NT has already started their nuke cycle.

That is why I believe the lockout on Offensive and Defensive Focus is too short.

I fully disagree. Especially since often enough in actual BS PvP you CAN see a NT's NCU and see which focus they are running at the moment. Duels I'll agree, they can throw you curve balls. So can you by perking NR8 if you're on a profession that can do it. I don't think this is worth balancing around at all.

You don't actually believe what you're saying here do you? Previously you had to land a 100% check nano to get any damage out of DM at all. Now you only have to land one 75% nuke. I legitimately was surprised you listed this as a nerf.

Garuk's gets countered more often than DM. The lack of need to land a DoT beforehand is a boost. Two different things. I was listing out examples of nerfs in there.. obviously enough I wasn't going to mention a boost.

So if the majority of people think NTs do too much damage, and many of those NTs are actually in Defensive Focus, how does that help your argument that NT damage is fine?

People are often wrong and don't have the slightest idea of what Defensive and Offensive focus are and end up with nonsensical whinefests. Check the amount of foolish claims on the latest "Nerf NT" threads, seriously. DO IT.

If you get killed by a NT in Defensive Focus during NS II, it's most likely your fault. See below.

Here's some data for you, let's take a look at some of the emergency defensive nanos of various professions:

• Advy: Hide of the Cerberus (500 AAD, 18s duration, 2 min lockout); Invocation of the Phoenix (CH, 1 min lockout)
• Agent: Slip Away (700 AAD/NR, 15s duration, 2 min lockout); Complete Healing (CH, 30s lockout)
• Bureaucrat: Take the Bullet (8000 absorb, 500 AAD, -3k Nanoskills, 30s duration, kills pet)
• Fixer: Expeditious Evacuation (Grid, 1 min lockout); Instantaneous Encoding (Team Grid, 2 min lockout)
• Meta Physicist: Sacrificial Shielding (100% DTP, 20s duration, 3m lockout)
• Shade: Smokebomb (Sneak, 5m lockout)
• Soldier: Augmented Mirror Shield (82% reflect, 10% increased healing, 80s duration, 2 min lockout)
• Trader: Your Enemy's Enemy is your Friend (15,000 heal and nano, 2 min lockout)
• Nano Technician: Nullity Sphere Mk II (100% reflect, 20s duration, 1 min lockout)

As you can see, NS2 cools down as fast or faster than most other emergency defense nanos. The effect is very similar to Sacrificial Shield, but it cools down in 1/3rd of the time. It gives more reflects and cools down faster than AMS5, although the duration is much shorter (do fights even last 80s in PvP?).

Now, we could argue which defensive effect is the best, or which is the most deserving of a long lockout. I think it is clear. NS2 is one of the best defensive nanos in the game with a very strong effect and a very low cooldown.

You seem to have forgotten to mention that NS2 locks out a good chunk of our PvP offense and that it gives us -2500 Runspeed (our RS is dark blue, we're slow to begin with.. even with GSF we're not going to catch ANYONE with that running).
This means that, contrary to SS, AMS V (which btw was buffed recently with root/snare immunity) and many others listed.. we become very easy to circumvent. If you're rooted, break it and move away from the NT. If you're not rooted you better not be trying to hit the NT during NS2 like an idiot.

NS2 *is* powerful. It's also rather low in duration. If combined with Aegis it becomes a very strong defensive set of abilities.. but still very much something you can counter and deal with. Some professions can do it easily and are nearly immortal to Def Focus NT's. Some will evidently struggle more as that's how AO works.

Also, the vast majority of the classes you listed has one of these two (or both, even!):

- Equal or Higher potential for Alpha damage. (Shade, Agent, Soldier, etc)
- High HP, Heals, Healdelta, High Evades, Drains/NSD, Reliable Stuns, etc.

The more "extreme" defense that comes with NS2 is warranted by the simple fact that NT's have no healing, low (by comparison with anything but maybe docs and traders?) evades and no active perk defenses.
Offensive Focus NT's function as the closest thing AO has to a Glass Cannon (though I dislike the term myself). We have 25 seconds to live and we must use them well. In return we get 35 seconds where we're highly vulnerable if we managed to kill our target(s).
Defensive Focus NT's sacrifice their alpha and will simply not be able to kill a few professions in the game simply out of "not enough damage to counter their defense". In addition to that their main defense pretty much locks them in place. Ensuring you can just remove the root if there's one and move away safely until NS2 is down. After that you have to go through Aegis which is considerably weaker than AS and will further cripple the NT since he'll be left with no nano at the end of it. Use that to your advantage and time your alpha to hit at the end of Aegis for a rather simple end to the fight.

We do have relatively small Layers we can use. 1334 every 5 seconds. If we do that during Aegis we lose 5 seconds at a time and we're pretty much wasting our time against anything except a non-AS doctor. In defensive focus the cast time is likely better used trying to maximize damage before defenses run out and hope the target has no healing abilities.

My main criticism against all these nerf cries for NT is the lack of reasoning behind them. People complain about NT's using NS2 and Alpha'ing you with doubles/triples (even though triples aren't even in-game anymore). People complain about overly high evades. People complain about Aegis being impossible to counter.

All of these claims and others made have come from lack of knowledge alone. They are the majority of complaints about NT's and they don't warrant ANY nerfing whatsoever.

I maintain that the only real 100% legit claim I've seen so far has been the one about NT's Pierce Reflect enabling other professions to Pierce them as well. Make good note of our reaction to it.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

I disagree with a lot of stuff sultry is saying, especially looking at the comparison between defensive CD's... these just aren't comparable since there are so many other factors at play.

I do agree however on his observation of def vs off CD and the strength of each focus.

Def focus is extremely strong and requires a specific set of tactics to beat, and Off focus is extremely strong and requires completely different set of tactics to beat. While I don't care about duels, they are a microcosm of any 1 on 1 encounter and thus can be taken to represent a fresh vs fresh encounter and I can definitely see Sultry's point that an NT can seriously throw a curveball within a short period of time since the CD on the alternate focus lockout is so short.

While I do like and appreciate the fluidity of play, perhaps with that fluidity and ease of transition, there should be less power. In general, this would conform to the broader tone and underlying mechanics in play in AO since launch, which basically says that those profs who can adapt to the situation will be better off broadly, while those who cannot swap/shift/adapt, generally make sacrifices in order to hold the ultimate advantage in any one arena (there are many examples of this ranging from armour sets to perklines, to perk actions, to breed perks, etc.)

[DigitalBath]

I disagree with a lot of stuff sultry is saying, especially looking at the comparison between defensive CD's... these just aren't comparable since there are so many other factors at play.

I do agree however on his observation of def vs off CD and the strength of each focus.

Def focus is extremely strong and requires a specific set of tactics to beat, and Off focus is extremely strong and requires completely different set of tactics to beat. While I don't care about duels, they are a microcosm of any 1 on 1 encounter and thus can be taken to represent a fresh vs fresh encounter and I can definitely see Sultry's point that an NT can seriously throw a curveball within a short period of time since the CD on the alternate focus lockout is so short.

While I do like and appreciate the fluidity of play, perhaps with that fluidity and ease of transition, there should be less power. In general, this would conform to the broader tone and underlying mechanics in play in AO since launch, which basically says that those profs who can adapt to the situation will be better off broadly, while those who cannot swap/shift/adapt, generally make sacrifices in order to hold the ultimate advantage in any one arena (there are many examples of this ranging from armour sets to perklines, to perk actions, to breed perks, etc.)

I'm not entirely sure that needs nerfing. A too big cooldown will affect NT's in both PvM and PvP trying to switch in a decent enough way (granted, Offensive Focus is rarely used in PvM outside stuff like S13 and Biodome). A too short cooldown can allow curveballs but I'm not convinced that's much of an issue for the reasons listed above.

Then there's the question of "how frequently should a NT be allowed to switch Focus?". At the moment we have to refrain from using NS 2 for 2 minutes to go into offensive focus. For duels that works out fine, for BS that means a 1min30 afk and/or low damage and no NS mode.
If we go the other way around that means not using Doubles/ITN for 2 minutes (low damage mode) while not using NS as well.

How long should a NT have to be deprived of using the specific advantages of both toolsets to switch? Is this a fair question/situation?

[Pomidor]

From my POV, at TL6, where there are plenty of NTs, they are not hard to kill (or impossible), its their offensivness and DMG creates biggest threat.

I knew always that soldier is weak vs NT, i beared with it many years and I got used to it. At this point of game, pretty much everything is easy kill for NT, and I guess only MP can master NT to the point, he will be unefficient.

Now two things makes me nerve:

1. Double nuke with 4,0-4,5 steady damage each 6 seconds (or so, seems uber fast) in each hit is too strong to the point it takes 2x Hits and additional perk to take out 12-13k hp. Can not resist that unless Biocooned on Enf/Keep. Even then, 1 additional hit will slay any character under 16k HP.

For last 3 weeks I saw thousands of times NT killing ultra fast agents, shades (those must be raging hard), soldiers (takes around 10-15 seconds to kill my soldier with 16800hp), Engs.
Other thing is, I was strictly alphaed by NT (Twobuttons) in BS several times when I was on my Doc (14800HP, 2120NR) - and to be honest, along with new mechanics of Trader drains, FC bring out another toon who will just pwn my doc. NT vs Doc has damage all time, debuffs (small but can mess around), NR and can -NR

2. Btw, whay FC introduced -NR debuff ths huge? Only defence vs NT is to have NR (like evades vs enf or dodge vs soldier) and -NR debuff takes always any defence from any character. This is so unbalanced.

One guy told me this:

I made 200 NT in Medsuit, I am running around and killing stuff, farming twinks, just to show how FC logic is broken

That sums it up I guess.

[DigitalBath]

From my POV, at TL6, where there are plenty of NTs, they are not hard to kill (or impossible), its their offensivness and DMG creates biggest threat.

I knew always that soldier is weak vs NT, i beared with it many years and I got used to it. At this point of game, pretty much everything is easy kill for NT, and I guess only MP can master NT to the point, he will be unefficient.

Now two things makes me nerve:

1. Double nuke with 4,0-4,5 steady damage each 6 seconds (or so, seems uber fast) in each hit is too strong to the point it takes 2x Hits and additional perk to take out 12-13k hp. Can not resist that unless Biocooned on Enf/Keep. Even then, 1 additional hit will slay any character under 16k HP.

For last 3 weeks I saw thousands of times NT killing ultra fast agents, shades (those must be raging hard), soldiers (takes around 10-15 seconds to kill my soldier with 16800hp), Engs.
Other thing is, I was strictly alphaed by NT (Twobuttons) in BS several times when I was on my Doc (14800HP, 2120NR) - and to be honest, along with new mechanics of Trader drains, FC bring out another toon who will just pwn my doc. NT vs Doc has damage all time, debuffs (small but can mess around), NR and can -NR

2. Btw, whay FC introduced -NR debuff ths huge? Only defence vs NT is to have NR (like evades vs enf or dodge vs soldier) and -NR debuff takes always any defence from any character. This is so unbalanced.

One guy told me this:

That sums it up I guess.

Thanks for contributing with TL6 info. I can't help but note some things are way off here, though.

I'll preface it by saying that at TL6 Nanobot Shelter is used instead of Superior Nanobot Shelter and that Nanopools are A LOT Shorter. NT's also can't use IW. Gear and Perk-wise nano damage will also have a much lower bonus.
As far as nukes go, Jobe Double and Impending Demise would be the nukes you're mentioning. Double does an average of 2973 base damage split in 2 hits. Even with 25% extra nano damage that works out to 3716 damage, which is still quite far from your 4.0-4.5k mark.
If you add Impending Demise to the Alpha, it'll have a line cooldown of 12 seconds and do a single hit for an average of 1785 base damage. 2232 damage with the +25% mentioned.

The total alpha with perks won't ever exceed ~8k damage. The second Double will have a capped cast time of 1s and will be cast after a 4s recharge. This means that every 5 seconds you will receive two hits for an average of 3716 damage.

Those nukes ignore reflects, making them rather powerful. There's no Garuk's at this level either so that's not a problem either.

Your 16.8k HP soldier would take about 15-18seconds to die. I don't know how much damage a soldier pushes out at this level but can't you simply destroy a NT's nanopool in Aegis with perks+specials?


This is sadly very paper-pvp'ish. I would love if someone who actually plays a 200 NT in PvP would step up with some real-world numbers for their setup in terms of evades, NR, %nanodamage they run with, etc.

The quote for a 200 NT in Medsuit "farming twinks" is false and ridiculous. The hp, evades, nano and nanoskills lost would make it a VERY easy target for any twink.

[Ciex]

Funny to read about NTs so noob that they dont even use roots or blinds. You guys ever thought it may have something to do with fact that profs that were rooted before 18.7 (keepers, shades) were given instacasted derooter so its simply not worth rooting them as you are often going to be dead by the time root recharge ends? Same goes with blinds, ever heard of vision preservation units from Alba? NTs dmg got nerfed in 18.7, same as their standing power, but they have a bit easier to execute alpha now. Thats all. Let me guess, you rolled MP now as you felt like having another FOTM prof and just discovered you can be killed in 1vs1 situation so you cry for nerf?

[Pomidor]

Thanks for contributing with TL6 info. I can't help but note some things are way off here, though.

I'll preface it by saying that at TL6 Nanobot Shelter is used instead of Superior Nanobot Shelter and that Nanopools are A LOT Shorter. NT's also can't use IW. Gear and Perk-wise nano damage will also have a much lower bonus.
As far as nukes go, Jobe Double and Impending Demise would be the nukes you're mentioning. Double does an average of 2973 base damage split in 2 hits. Even with 25% extra nano damage that works out to 3716 damage, which is still quite far from your 4.0-4.5k mark.
If you add Impending Demise to the Alpha, it'll have a line cooldown of 12 seconds and do a single hit for an average of 1785 base damage. 2232 damage with the +25% mentioned.

The total alpha with perks won't ever exceed ~8k damage. The second Double will have a capped cast time of 1s and will be cast after a 4s recharge. This means that every 5 seconds you will receive two hits for an average of 3716 damage.

Those nukes ignore reflects, making them rather powerful. There's no Garuk's at this level either so that's not a problem either.

Your 16.8k HP soldier would take about 15-18seconds to die. I don't know how much damage a soldier pushes out at this level but can't you simply destroy a NT's nanopool in Aegis with perks+specials?


This is sadly very paper-pvp'ish. I would love if someone who actually plays a 200 NT in PvP would step up with some real-world numbers for their setup in terms of evades, NR, %nanodamage they run with, etc.

The quote for a 200 NT in Medsuit "farming twinks" is false and ridiculous. The hp, evades, nano and nanoskills lost would make it a VERY easy target for any twink.

At this moment, there are at least 6 very good NTs (superb geared, knowing their classes), and I am telling you I was hit with 2150+2100 many, many times (this is example, highest double I have noted was 4370) on all toons, which include Doctor/Eng/Soldier/Enf/Keeper. This is not one case scenario. I can be mad on myself with keep and eng, because both toons stands on 10k hp, which is my choice, so I am no mad too much here, but literally NT is killing my toons as he aims me.

I don't know what powers in tools NT has, since I dont play one - but from soldier side, you wish to kill nanopool of NT - NT will root soldier and run, if its needed, but that is very rare situation, because most times NT will just wipe floor with soldier. As it goes to my Eng vs NT - my Eng is DD setuped, AR concetrated, and I find it difficoult to kill NT - its possible, yes, but I need to have coon up.

About quote: Ask Folk (Schnapps, Burden, Mysterious, Valour) what he was doing with his NT, and you will find out. Or just meet him in BS to know. This guy was impossible to kill - and even if you were close to it, you will be rooted and he will return to finish his job.

Few days ago there was situation like this: I was on my 200 soldier, on my side there was 200 Shade (Yixa), 200 Keeper (Rabbbiez?), 200 soldier (Generalsomething) and 200 Agent (all top geared char, maybe except that soldier). NT was in core alone. I run to Core, attacked NT. Durring short fight NT killed Agent, then killed that Shade. In this time he had 50% HP, I thought I got him, but then he rooted keeper, and killed me. When I get back to Core, I saw dead Keep and other soldier. NT was running with 10% HP, I jumped on him with full alpha, he poped NSII, rooted me and ran. Half minute later, when my AMS was down, I was back in decon.

Other situation. Again I am on my soldier, there are 2 shades on my team and 1 agent and a doc. We jump on 200 NT, he tank us prety well, kills shade and agent, then he is dead. Doc healed me, but without CH I would be gone too. I consider both situations (and many others I seen) to be OP at this level.

Ciex - this Release Me! nano has 5 minutes cooldown - in BS 5 minutes means many deaths during that time and its not realiable tool. I find myself many times chain rooted just after using it.



EDIT: BS 5 minutes ago

You were attacked with nanobots from Divinewitch for 2325 points of radiation damage.
You were attacked with nanobots from Divinewitch for 1992 points of radiation damage.

[Aiken]

DigitalBath Walls of text does NOT mean you are correct. I stand by every word of my last post.

[Vinkera]

DigitalBath Walls of text does NOT mean you are correct. I stand by every word of my last post.

Criticizing how someone posts doesn't mean you are either, especially since there's quite a bit of relevant information in his posts.

[dritst]

Criticizing how someone posts doesn't mean you are either, especially since there's quite a bit of relevant information in his posts.

Well that why i invited mish to watch daily bs on live to see if all fine :X As Lequack stated agent got strong alpha but they die really really fast , Nts aren't.
And as people stated it isn't root/blind which are less usefull now, nts don't use them because most are offensive and the dommage you can push is amazing. And yes i got a 220/30 nt. Defensive with aegis/rrfe/shield it is pretty interesting and balanced i can admit (garuk+perk+UI can give a nasty alpha in right order but it takes time and give opportunity to opponent to defend).

Srompu +1!

[Vinkera]

And as people stated it isn't root/blind which are less usefull now, nts don't use them...

That's exactly the opposite of what others have said. Blinds are possible to be 110% immune to, and aren't ideal to use in some situations otherwise. Every single profession can break roots in one way or another, making them an unreliable tactic.

[Lazy]

Ive been saying this for years but the only way to balance nts is to make doubles selfonly.

[Vinkera]

Ive been saying this for years but the only way to balance nts is to make doubles selfonly.

I lol'd :P

[Cdogg421]

Here's some data for you, let's take a look at some of the emergency defensive nanos of various professions:

• Advy: Hide of the Cerberus (500 AAD, 18s duration, 2 min lockout); Invocation of the Phoenix (CH, 1 min lockout)
• Agent: Slip Away (700 AAD/NR, 15s duration, 2 min lockout); Complete Healing (CH, 30s lockout)
• Bureaucrat: Take the Bullet (8000 absorb, 500 AAD, -3k Nanoskills, 30s duration, kills pet)
• Fixer: Expeditious Evacuation (Grid, 1 min lockout); Instantaneous Encoding (Team Grid, 2 min lockout)
• Meta Physicist: Sacrificial Shielding (100% DTP, 20s duration, 3m lockout)
• Shade: Smokebomb (Sneak, 5m lockout)
• Soldier: Augmented Mirror Shield (82% reflect, 10% increased healing, 80s duration, 2 min lockout)
• Trader: Your Enemy's Enemy is your Friend (15,000 heal and nano, 2 min lockout)
• Nano Technician: Nullity Sphere Mk II (100% reflect, 20s duration, 1 min lockout)

let's expand on this past the emergency part, and add the emergency nanos you didn't include.

• Advy: Hide of the Cerberus (500 AAD, 18s duration, 2 min lockout); Invocation of the Phoenix (CH, 1 min lockout); Beauty of Life (2352-3528 heal, 4s lock+3s recharge); Bio Cocoon (10k absorb, 30s duration, 2m lock); heal perks- Awakening (4000-4500 heal, 105s lock), Bio Regrowth (15000 heal over 30s, 5m lock); DoF/Limber (800/200 evade, duck, dodge, 40s duration, 65s lock); high root/snare resist.
  
• Agent: Slip Away (700 AAD/NR/RS, 15s duration, 2 min lockout); Complete Healing (CH, 30s lockout); roots/snares; stun/snare perks with strong alpha.
  
• Bureaucrat: Take the Bullet (8000 absorb, 500 AAD, -3k Nanoskills, 30s duration, kills pet); Weekend Volunteer (fear, 7s duration, 35s lock (this is an emergency defense as well)); calms to put pets out of action; roots/snares(AoE versions of both); Malaise of Zeal (-1448 inits, 90s duration, no lock, made stronger by 2 other nanos for an additional -650 inits); Dodge the Blame (3800 AAD, 21s duration, 90s lock); Overrule (500 AAd+450 NR, 20s duration, 110s lockout); Evasive Stance (1000 AAD, 30s duration, 3m20s lock); all combined with high sustained dmg.
  
• Fixer: Expeditious Evacuation (Grid, 1 min lockout); Instantaneous Encoding (Team Grid, 2 min lockout); Greater Preservation Matrix (6% heal every 8s); Superior Insurance Hack (355-545 heal every 5s); Evasive Stance (1000 AAD, 30s duration, 3m20s lock); DoF/Limber (800/200 evade, duck, dodge, 40s duration, 65s lock); roots/snares; high root/snare resist with a passive that removes both every 15s; strong alpha with stun, fastest profession.
  
• Meta Physicist: Sacrificial Shielding (100% DTP, 20s duration, 3m lockout); Heal pet; Desecration (-883 dmg) no lockout; Nanite Enhanced Nano Shutdown (-3k nano skills, 10s duration, 30s lock, ranks in there with the emergency CDs); Dominate: xxxxxxxx (-125 to a nano skill, 5m duration, no lock); Metaing's Improved Mind Quake (-150 nano skills, 18s duration, no lock); Hostility Scourge (-50% nano dmg efficiency, 30s duration, lock?); Beneficial Scourge (-50% heal efficiency, 30s duration, lock?); Induced Apathy (10% snare proc on pet for -1800 RS); Spirit of Blessing (1500 heal, 20s lock); Dazzle With Lights (-800 inits + -300 AAO, 15s duration, 35s recharge); high sustained dmg with decent alpha depending on setup
  
• Shade: Smokebomb (Sneak, 5m lockout); Shade's Caress (1200 heal per hit on target, 10s duration, lock?(another emergency nano)); Sneaking Health Drain (900 heal every 10s, 60s duration, no lock); Release Me Now (root/snare removal + 100% resist, 5s duration, 5m lock); Evasive Stance (1000 AAD, 30s duration, 3m20s lock); DoF/Limber (800/200 evade, duck, dodge, 40s duration, 65s lock); extremely high alpha with stun, high life tap, and AAO drain perks.
  
• Soldier: Augmented Mirror Shield (82% reflect, 10% increased healing, 10% heal reactivity, 15% root/snare resist, 80s duration, 2 min lockout); Don't Fear the Reaper (30% heal, 3m lock); Release Me Now (root/snare removal + 100% resist, 5s duration, 5m lock); Lifeblood (3500 heal over 32s, 5m lock); Blessing of Life (900 heal, 50s lock); Draw Blood (325-3525 dmg, 120% life tap, 60s lock); strong alpha.
  
• Trader: Your Enemy's Enemy is your Friend (15,000 heal and nano, 2 min lockout); Grand Theft Humidity (10% nano drain every second, 15s duration, 1m lock); Industrial Sabotage (-300 AAO + -30 crit, 30s duration, 8s lock); Plunder Skills (Nanite Improved) (-350 weapon/nano skills, 1m duration, 6s lock); Divest Skills (Nanite Improved) (-350 weapon/nano skills, 1m duration, 6s lock); Subprime Vitality Mortgage (40% heal over 4s, -10% over 5s, 4m lock); Improved Health Plunder (990 heal, no lock); roots/calms; Reap Life (176-2328 life tap, 60s lock); Tap Vitae (1200-1500 heal, 25s lock); moderate to high dmg
  
• Nano Technician: Nullity Sphere Mk II (100% reflect, 20s duration, 1 min lockout, defensive focus for 2m); Nanobot Aegis (85% damage to nano, 150 DtN multiplier, -500 nano every 5s, 25s duration, 1m lock); Superior Fleeting Immunity (1334 absorb, 23m duration, 5s lock); Izgimmer's Wealth (20k nano heal, 90s lock); Optic Plague (-499 AAO, 21s duration, 10s lock); Legions of the Eyeblighter (AoE -250 AAO, 21s duration, no lock); Nano Heal (2400-4000 nano heal, 30s lock); Tap Notum Source (8400 nano heal over 14s, 5m lock); Access Notum Source (2500 nano heal, 4m lock); Dazzle With Lights (-800 inits + -300 AAO, 15s duration, 35s recharge); roots/calms; very high dmg in defensive focus, extremely high dmg in offensive focus

i left out procs and gear bonuses. this is all nanos and perks.

looking across the board after everything is laid out, i think most of these are even. most of those classes have good to excellent healing, NT and crat being left out of there having access to 0 heals in a normal perk setup aside from stims. so imo the high dmg is warranted, and if you want to nerf it you need to give NT's some sort of healing or higher static defense. shades can crank out about the same amount of dmg with stuns and the ability to heal their selves to full several times in a fight, while having way higher defense. yes, some profs need a boost but i don't think nt's need a nerf. i don't believe that the devs just nilly willy put in dmg values, i'm sure they thought about it when they did so.

[sultryvoltron]

If you want to compare perks, go ahead. If you want to compare offensive nanos that have to be landed on other people, fine. I don't generally find either one of those to be comparable with an emergency defense nano. I see those as mostly being self only that you use as a last resort.

Traders are maybe the only exception.

[Raggy]

If you want to compare perks, go ahead. If you want to compare offensive nanos that have to be landed on other people, fine. I don't generally find either one of those to be comparable with an emergency defense nano. I see those as mostly being self only that you use as a last resort.

Traders are maybe the only exception.

No Drains = No Trader

[Cratertina]

:P Haha fix Nt.

I tihnk the only reason people complain aobut NTs is becouse evades are so OP. When you run on evade char like fixer or advy (and i do), its quite comfortable, you see people, perk em, spam some AS, maybe heal a bit... no problem. Its well controlled.

Then Nt comes along lands a double or something and you take damage.... dat insolence! How someone dares to take on your impunity? OMG! Another nuke... DA hell I am unkillable how dare they hit me through my CSS armor.

That's the real problem, we all build for evades, AAD. NT's totally bypass that. Because our experience is centered against professions that cannot perk us, we are totally shocked by anyone that can.

But if you play a profession that can be perked, like say doc, agent, or a poorly geared char in general... then NT feels just like everyone else.

What we need is 90 NR on spiritual armor each piece.. then we'll see.

[dritst]

That's exactly the opposite of what others have said. Blinds are possible to be 110% immune to, and aren't ideal to use in some situations otherwise. Every single profession can break roots in one way or another, making them an unreliable tactic.

That isn't the opposite.
Blind: First not all wear 100% immune, and couple with dazzle they are pretty good
Root: as pomidor stated "Ciex - this Release Me! nano has 5 minutes cooldown - in BS 5 minutes means many deaths during that time and its not realiable tool. I find myself many times chain rooted just after using it." Well let's not talk about Quark Containment Field (pen is only nm and only -300 rs anyway). They still land and they are still useful.

But Offensive Nt dont need. Tactical+garuk+double+perks! (cb first if need!) Def: Aegis, reanim cloak (nm absorb if you pick the breed!) is right enough to drop people ^^ Anyway next time you quote, quote the ALL sentence "nts don't use them because most are offensive and the dommage you can push is amazing"

[Jovial]

let's expand on this past the emergency part, and add the emergency nanos you didn't include.

[list][*]Trader: Your Enemy's Enemy is your Friend (15,000 heal and nano, 2 min lockout); Grand Theft Humidity (10% nano drain every second, 15s duration, 1m lock); Industrial Sabotage (-300 AAO + -30 crit, 30s duration, 8s lock); Plunder Skills (Nanite Improved) (-350 weapon/nano skills, 1m duration, 6s lock); Divest Skills (Nanite Improved) (-350 weapon/nano skills, 1m duration, 6s lock); Subprime Vitality Mortgage (40% heal over 4s, -10% over 5s, 4m lock); Improved Health Plunder (990 heal, no lock); roots/calms; Reap Life (176-2328 life tap, 60s lock); Tap Vitae (1200-1500 heal, 25s lock); moderate to high dmg

I'm not quite sure you know exactly what "emergency" means... You practically named every nano in the Trader's entire toolset and declare it, "for emergency use, only." Also, with the exception of Divest, nearly all of those offensive nanos you listed are 100+% NR (Plunder is 130%). I can go an entire BS without landing Plunder on anyone, so declaring that an "emergency" nano is like putting a fire extinguisher inside a locked metal cabinet in case there's a fire. That's not a good "emergency case" solution.

What are NTs doing while Traders are trying to land their 100+% nanos? Probably letting their cat walk across their keyboard, thereby nuking the Trader into oblivion with 53% NR nanos for 30% of their life in each hit.

[Hassler]

That isn't the opposite.
Blind: First not all wear 100% immune, and couple with dazzle they are pretty good

but every decent pvper wears atleast 60% immune which is already more than enough to resist+counter a few blinds in a row and almost every prof can hotswap it in when nts tried to land it a few times. dont forget that we do zero dmg while spaming blinds

Root: as pomidor stated "Ciex - this Release Me! nano has 5 minutes cooldown - in BS 5 minutes means many deaths during that time and its not realiable tool. I find myself many times chain rooted just after using it." Well let's not talk about Quark Containment Field (pen is only nm and only -300 rs anyway). They still land and they are still useful.

most of the profs got other tools to remove roots too or resist them. and again dont forget that we lose 4,5s at dmg making when rooting someone just that most are resisting or instant removing it.

the thing about not using these 2 abilities that often are not because we dont need them but rather because they come with a huge dmg drawback in difference to all other profs who can still do dmg while casting roots/fears/snares/heals etc.