Trader Suggestion Thread - Updated for 18.7.xx

[Brandonj]

It's pointless to drain a mob with regular drains (well not pointless, it buffs your weapon/nanoskills) since only -aao will actually do something when it comes to them hitting you/damage they do, this has been verified by Michi in some other thread.
-aad makes you crit them more, so that's always nice.

That's my point.

[Raggy]

That's my point.

I'm not sure I really see the issue.

[Brandonj]

I'm not sure I really see the issue.

Our constant need to cast nanos that do nothing to the mob? That's not an issue?

[nanoforcer]

Don't keep casting it on the mob unless it's about to run out on your ncu and you need/want the bonuses, that's what Raggy is saying.
It lasts alot longer on you than it does on the mob.

[Raggy]

Our constant need to cast nanos that do nothing to the mob? That's not an issue?

You may see it as one, I personally don't. It's our way of buffing ourselves, it always has been. Now that the -AAO portions have moved to CS/IP along with a small buff to our overall defence and crit vs mobs, D/P drains are now lower on the foodchain to keep running. Personally I only drop them at the start of a fight now to get the 3min buff running.

Nothing has really changed. In fact, we were buffed in PvM solo viability.

[Brandonj]

It's a drain that's no longer a drain >.<

[Raggy]

It's a drain that's no longer a drain >.<

It's still draining a chuff load of skills and giving them to you.

The buffing component of D/P exists as it always has and now CP/IS is a better version of debuff over D/P. Where's the problem lol?

[Brandonj]

It's still draining a chuff load of skills and giving them to you.

The buffing component of D/P exists as it always has and now CP/IS is a better version of debuff over D/P. Where's the problem lol?

Have you leveled a trader lately?

You have to cast your D/P nanos constantly. There's laddering, slow init, resists, all for what? A buff to keep your DD up with everyone else. It's time wasting and a nausance to know what your casting is not doing anything to the mob or for your team.

[Raggy]

Have you leveled a trader lately?

You have to cast your D/P nanos constantly. There's laddering, slow init, resists, all for what? A buff to keep your DD up with everyone else. It's time wasting and a nausance to know what your casting is not doing anything to the mob or for your team.

Nothing has changed.

Absolutely nothing.

D/P has always been a 3min duration, it's just that the -AAO component has moved elsewhere.


I get that you seem to think you're not helping the team by laddering, but surely by getting higher buffs, you're able to cast better team heals, AC debuffs, umbrals etc. Also you do realise that with CP/IS now, you actually actively lower the mobs critical defence, giving everyone on your team a higher chance of doing more damage.

Don't look at D/P as a debuff, look at it as a means to a better end.

[Brandonj]

Nothing has changed.

Absolutely nothing.

D/P has always been a 3min duration, it's just that the -AAO component has moved elsewhere.

Are you serious man? What you just said was exactly what change is. Now you have to cast more nanos, just to justify all that previous sh*t you just casted was for good reason.

I get that you seem to think you're not helping the team by laddering, but surely by getting higher buffs, you're able to cast better team heals, AC debuffs, umbrals etc. Also you do realise that with CP/IS now, you actually actively lower the mobs critical defence, giving everyone on your team a higher chance of doing more damage.

Don't look at D/P as a debuff, look at it as a means to a better end.

No. Having high skills and all those nanos is what makes you on par with everyone else. Before having drained, the trader is nothing compared to other professions.

[Raggy]

Are you serious man? What you just said was exactly what change is. Now you have to cast more nanos, just to justify all that previous sh*t you just casted was for good reason.

All the cast times for D/P and CP/IS were slashed. It's actually faster now to drop both drains AND CP/IS than it ever was to do just D/P alone pre-18.7.

No. Having high skills and all those nanos is what makes you on par with everyone else. Before having drained, the trader is nothing compared to other professions.

What are you asking for? Traders to be better than everyone else after draining? That's not what balance is, sorry.

[Brandonj]

All I'm saying is, in PvM, pre 220 (As I do not have a 220 trader), you are doing a lot of draining just to fill your role. Just to be on par with everyone else. For no other reason do you drain. There should be a plus to it.

[Raggy]

All I'm saying is, in PvM, pre 220 (As I do not have a 220 trader), you are doing a lot of draining just to fill your role. Just to be on par with everyone else. For no other reason do you drain. There should be a plus to it.

Being able to put on weapons/nanos 40+ levels away from what you realistically should be capable of doing is a plus.

[Brandonj]

Literally in the same quote I told you this is required of a trader to be on par with everyone else. It's no benefit, just a downside. Like talking to a wall.

[Raggy]

Literally in the same quote I told you this is required of a trader to be on par with everyone else. It's no benefit, just a downside. Like talking to a wall.

If you cannot see the benefits of draining regardless of the -AAO portion being moved to different nanos that give even better benefits, I'm not sure what I can do.

Traders gained alot from 18.7 in regards to PvM, that is all. If you want to know what those benefits were go here or try re-reading my posts.

[appolonia]

Wow... Sounds like Zazen threads...

I'm working on my 6th or 7th trader (in soon 14 years...) and it's never been that easy and enjoyable. 60 locked, just did Biomare quests (except Dirlab and with HnQ =)). 120ish FSS/Bazzit combo, 1K3 crits, very few resists, just great, I feel quite powerful and, most important, so SAFE (even after HnQ ended).

Being able to chain drains is a gift when they get resisted (the counterpart of being able to attack red mobs), aao/aad/crit drains are just HUGE (just seen TriP life going down by quarters lately), now the drawback is nanopool (soli) since mob die fast and nanodrains are almost useless =) But you just need to refresh the drains every 3 minutes so it's ok. And if you forgot, just ladder them like before, except you can CHAIN them. Reminds me of people unable to understand how being able to chain/cycle solo and team heals as a MA is pure ownage and the mother of all HUGE BUFFS.

Levelling a doc, adv, crat, engi, all 60 atm with 125 implants and good stuff. Did the same with Sold, MA, Fix and Keeper. Except the pet classes twinked for top RK pets, Advy and Trader are by far the most enjoyable and powerful, Keeper is on par but boring as hell (@obvious).

I find it very nice I can (almost) play my little soli like my eDKP Trox and MA Soli 220s while it was SO frustrating to level both of them and a missed drain would lead me to hugging the reclaim. Plus, and it's quite noticeable, the crappy guns we have by these levels are magnified by the AAO/AAD/Crit drains/buffs.

Just took my S10 trader out of the dust... Well, cast drains (3 seconds), and you're good to go for 3 minutes. Cast aao/aad/crit drains and you just r4pe mobs. Just hagglers to heal/dd. In my mind, I'm now free from draining every mob since I'm now 100% sure it doesn't lower their skill, so I can concentrate on the rest, and, boy, it's so much more comfortable than before when you had to cast and cast and cast and cast for little to no benefit but surviving.

Seems so obvious to me, like Zazen, I can't understand how FACTS can be denied. Now, ok, in rushing situations such a (inf) mishes I can see why having to drain every 3mn AND having to debuff mobs can be a pain, but in regular PVM it's so fast and powerful there's no reason to complain - except purely psychological ones.

Having to drain mobs to get their skills is the basis of traders, we also lowered their skills before but to no factual/game mechanics purpose, and we couldn't get the most important part ; We lost nothing, but gained the ability to steal the skills FAST so to be effective FAST, why should we care about a mechanic that was broken anyway ?

[appolonia]

Are you serious man? What you just said was exactly what change is. Now you have to cast more nanos, just to justify all that previous sh*t you just casted was for good reason.

No. Having high skills and all those nanos is what makes you on par with everyone else. Before having drained, the trader is nothing compared to other professions.

Weel, you have to cast FOUR nanos, and you can just CHAIN them like you'd hit alphas... (by the time you can think on going full def you'll have high enough nanoinit for this)

Before, you had to WAIT to cast your 2nd/3rd/4th/whaterver D/P, and if one was resisted you were just dead disabled meat, because we rely on drains to take on higher mobs instead of just going for yellow/orange ones like most people have to. Now, 1st miss, just (re)cast the 2nd, 2nd miss, just recast the 1st etc etc. And then, when you eventually D/Pd the target AND survived you had lowered NOTHING from him anyway, just like now except it's legit.

Well, before draining, the Trader is (almost) nothing compared to SOME other professions (ask no damage docs, pre 210ish shades, soldiers out of TMS, enfos without healers, casting/pet profs while nanopool drained and/or nanoskills shut down etc etc etc). The very definition of the trader is being powerful by stealing one another's skills, isn't it ? Nobody lied to you when you rolled your Trader. You're more in a PVP mind there, though you talk PVM, quite weird and unrelevant.

What's the problem with having to cast, say, FOUR nanos, in 3 seconds and being 100% operationnal but MUCH more powerful than before ? In the time you'd D/P a mob before you've now taken it down to 75 to 50%. And even with lower nanoinits, the D/P take 2 seconds on my 60 trader with 330, and drains are instant anyway.

What are you trying to say ? That Trader is 100% useless before the drains ? If you hold a weapon that requires, say, 25% more skills than you basically have, and this weapon goes 75% OE, does it mean to you it does no damage at all ? Because to me, doing 75% of a 25% more powerful weapon might be a loss before D/P, but it's just a bit lower than a 100% effective weapon, with the ability to do 25% more damage (rough numbers) with D/P. People with an EO weapon CAN'T drain to have it 100%, we can. So, unless it's about pure alphas, we're technically above other people on mid/long run... This is just basic maths.

And then, will you OD a soldier, heal better than a doc ? Why are you looking at other profs, you can't compare anyway. If with drains we could be on par with DDers I could - with a lot of effort - understand, but even this isn't true, so what's your point, once again if we're not talking about pure alpha PVP ?

And, for the record, we actually and effectively NEVER drained anything except on paper/tooltip from MOBS before CP/IS, so you were more powerful but the mob was the same, nothing has changed.

[Sunny-D]

Since Silverback got its as recharge bumped up and prof lock removed can we get one of the old shotties bumped up to modern status? I'd love to get aimed shot on a SCOPED salabim. Grand wyrm with fling and maybe up the proc power a bit (like maybe drain target for 150 aoo and the heal proc increased or changed to a ac drain? Just throwing some ideas out there I just like the idea of having a cool trader shotgun again.

[Twangleman]

Bump for revamp of old gear

[Nycrow]

You know now that you mention it the shotgun issue is looming in my near future. My choices are the Silverback (too small and plain) or Beast shotty (ugly) to be realistic. I do not like the look of either. I PvP enough for AS to be a important to me. Some other choice, even in the skin of the two I listed would be welcome to me.