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Thread: 18.7.0.24 TL, New Rihwen nano reqs.

  1. #1

    18.7.0.24 TL, New Rihwen nano reqs.

    First, new nano reqs for higher tier Rihwen;

    Spawn Pet if
    On Self:
    Must have no other regular pet. and
    Matter Crea from 3045 and
    Time&Space from 3040
    Spawn Pet if
    On Self:
    Must have no other regular pet. and
    Matter Crea from 2545 and
    Time&Space from 2540

    I'm testing Opi MP at TL, was good with both bow & shield, now i decided to try new tiers of rihwen so i changed setup, casted 2.5k req one (which is lvl 223), but noway i can cast 3050 req. one, even with highest phulaks and wrangle i'm sitting at 2900ish skills,

    Lets say we're able to cast it with few more swaps then we'll become new engineers/keepers curently at live, swap234987 item, cast pet, put items back. And ofcourse this makes us must to use shield, not bow.

    Reducing highest tier's reqs. around 2800ish makes both bow/shield/(put any other weapon you use here) viable again.

    That was my 2cents

    PS: Sorry for my English and this whining thread

    EDIT 1-
    For who wonders dmg of Rihwen atm (2.5k req. one)

    DMG1 hit Punching Bag for 4718 points of poison damage.
    DMG1 hit Punching Bag for 4230 points of poison damage.
    DMG1 hit Punching Bag for 7066 points of poison damage. Critical hit!
    DMG1 hit Punching Bag for 5026 points of poison damage.
    DMG1 hit Punching Bag for 2970 points of poison damage.
    DMG1 hit Punching Bag for 4666 points of poison damage.
    DMG1 hit Punching Bag for 4682 points of poison damage.
    DMG1 hit Punching Bag for 3378 points of poison damage.
    Last edited by lainbr; Apr 20th, 2015 at 21:22:18.
    "...corrupta est autem terra coram Deo..."

    Replax - 220 Soldier * Astoreth - 220 Adventurer * Astorethx - 220 MP
    Astocrat - 220 Crat * Astormech - 220 Engineer * Otwar - 220 MA
    Astoreth1 - 220 Keeper * Astorhade - 220 Shade * Astangel - 220 NT

  2. #2
    I'de be more interested in seeing how it does against a high ac target, try the punching bug please.
    Also, there goes my idea to change into trox for more hp i guess

    Does it also seem to scale on hp?
    Last edited by nanoforcer; Apr 3rd, 2015 at 09:08:48.
    Don't you just hate this kind of ppl
    http://redwing.hutman.net/%7Emreed/w...rouscranus.htm

  3. #3
    I think kind of the point with the highest nano req rihwen is focused for those who don't use bow or other weapons, but is mainly nano focused. Been so long since i played my mp but i think he easily had over 3k.
    Valhall Guardians

    Thapetowner 220 Meta-Physicist
    Hyimoliver 220 Soldier
    Ihatemyself 200 Shade
    Hardcore 200 Adventurer
    Ilovetokill 170 Agent
    Ilovetodrain 150 Trader
    Oxiahe 150 Doctor
    Critterz 150 Martial-Artist
    Awaaa 74 Soldier

  4. #4
    Ao skill emu might be a little off, but i'm getting 3045 mc / 3044 ts in a max setup without contracts or towers with a full blowout nanofocused setup as a nanomage, assuming i could actually get a drop of ql 300 phulaks and ql 300 nano control unit.

    And then when you almost broken your back popping that pet and you're back in fighting gear as an efort to stay above 2k ar for your weapons you realize that you need about 2400-ish mc/ts to keep it actually working for you (non-oe)

    I think that's a bit too much to ask for here Michi

    Tier 2 at 2400 then tier 3 at 2700-ish would be more sane, unless i'm supposed to perk reset and have a few different sets of ai armor every time i need to buff top pet, eh?

    I could also point at engis and ask why we have to jump thru these hoops and can't have ubermonkey (tier 3) at ai dog/widowmaker reqs.
    Last edited by nanoforcer; Apr 3rd, 2015 at 12:30:41.
    Don't you just hate this kind of ppl
    http://redwing.hutman.net/%7Emreed/w...rouscranus.htm

  5. #5
    could we also perhaps get different color of diff tiers? Like the green one for level 220 pet, blue-ish or black for tier2 and red or something in that direction for tier 3 ?
    Don't you just hate this kind of ppl
    http://redwing.hutman.net/%7Emreed/w...rouscranus.htm

  6. #6
    high ac test :

    DMG1 hit Punching Bug for 2801 points of poison damage.
    DMG1 hit Punching Bug for 2539 points of poison damage.
    DMG1 hit Punching Bug for 2539 points of poison damage.
    DMG1 hit Punching Bug for 3063 points of poison damage.
    DMG1 hit Punching Bug for 2801 points of poison damage.
    DMG1 hit Punching Bug for 4455 points of poison damage. Critical hit!
    DMG1 hit Punching Bug for 2539 points of poison damage.
    DMG1 hit Punching Bug for 2539 points of poison damage.
    DMG1 hit Punching Bug for 3063 points of poison damage.

    also i manage to hit 3070ish skill at live, but with phulaks, 300 ncunit, creator module, infused & normal nano ench. and reanim cloak, i'm missing some int/psy researches anyway.

    I still think that any skill req. over 2.8k even nano focused is too high.
    "...corrupta est autem terra coram Deo..."

    Replax - 220 Soldier * Astoreth - 220 Adventurer * Astorethx - 220 MP
    Astocrat - 220 Crat * Astormech - 220 Engineer * Otwar - 220 MA
    Astoreth1 - 220 Keeper * Astorhade - 220 Shade * Astangel - 220 NT

  7. #7

    Funcom employee

    Quote Originally Posted by nanoforcer View Post
    could we also perhaps get different color of diff tiers? Like the green one for level 220 pet, blue-ish or black for tier2 and red or something in that direction for tier 3 ?
    I wanted to do something like this, but time became a constraint. The 3 versions of the pets are unique monsters, so it will be easy to give them new looks, when I can get some new textures.
    Henry "Michizure" Senger
    Lead Designer
    ___________________________________
    Twitter - Welcome to Testlive - Customer Service

  8. #8
    All i need is an org invite+153 wrangle..and I can actually start seeing this new rihwen in action

    Ok..casted the lil bugger..

    Not that much of an upgrade from the tier 2 one.. but this is what tier 3 does on the high ac punching boob

    The Rihwen hit Punching Bug for 3191 points of poison damage.
    The Rihwen hit Punching Bug for 5365 points of poison damage. Critical hit!
    The Rihwen hit Punching Bug for 4654 points of poison damage. Critical hit!
    The Rihwen hit Punching Bug for 2905 points of poison damage.
    The Rihwen hit Punching Bug for 2639 points of poison damage.
    The Rihwen hit Punching Bug for 2639 points of poison damage.
    The Rihwen hit Punching Bug for 3191 points of poison damage.

    I've never played an endgame mp before..so i very well could be missing a buff..but using Channel rage / PT / Improved instill / Enraged / High chant

    Heres the low ac punching boob for lols

    The Rihwen hit Punching Bag for 4773 points of poison damage.
    The Rihwen hit Punching Bag for 5701 points of poison damage.
    The Rihwen hit Punching Bag for 8471 points of poison damage. Critical hit!
    The Rihwen hit Punching Bag for 5569 points of poison damage.
    The Rihwen hit Punching Bag for 7443 points of poison damage. Critical hit!

    Rihwen = pet level 225 btw

    for the 500 extra nanoskills needed to cast this one..I think his hotdog fingers need to turn into scissor fingers!
    Last edited by Poko; Apr 3rd, 2015 at 16:58:52.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by AstorethX View Post
    high ac test :

    DMG1 hit Punching Bug for 2801 points of poison damage.
    DMG1 hit Punching Bug for 2539 points of poison damage.
    DMG1 hit Punching Bug for 2539 points of poison damage.
    DMG1 hit Punching Bug for 3063 points of poison damage.
    DMG1 hit Punching Bug for 2801 points of poison damage.
    DMG1 hit Punching Bug for 4455 points of poison damage. Critical hit!
    DMG1 hit Punching Bug for 2539 points of poison damage.
    DMG1 hit Punching Bug for 2539 points of poison damage.
    DMG1 hit Punching Bug for 3063 points of poison damage.

    also i manage to hit 3070ish skill at live, but with phulaks, 300 ncunit, creator module, infused & normal nano ench. and reanim cloak, i'm missing some int/psy researches anyway.

    I still think that any skill req. over 2.8k even nano focused is too high.
    Personally I dont think its that bad..swap everything..cast a monster of a rihwen and just dont go below 2.4k nanoskills..im assuming michi had in mind for only the ''endgame'' mps with most nanoskill items ava to them to use it..not someone who got powerlvled to 220 in a week..if you get what im saying.

  10. #10
    I'm going to make myself unpopular: I don't think the nano reqs should go down for the upgraded Rihwens.

    Before you all light the torches and sharpen the pitch forks, please let me explain. The 2545 req Rihwen is a great pet. I've not had time to really test it, and won't until tomorrow, but so far as I can see it's basically the pet I was hoping we'd get. It should have damage close, but not equal, to total engineer or crat pet damage. It's got lots of health. I haven't tested this, but I'm assuming it's got solid AR. If this were the pet upgrade we'd gotten, I'd be really, really happy with it.

    The 3,045 req pet is a flat out Kaiju - a monster. If this thing could be summoned by MPs in anything close to normal setups, it'd be overpowered. It can be selfed, theoretically. The best nano-skill setup I can come up with is http://auno.org/ao/equip.php?saveid=199937 . According to AO Skill Emulator v2.38, this will give 3,141 MC/TS (cool that it came out exactly even) fully self buffed, including a ql 300 city HQ, ql 300 Mining Operations building and ql 300 org Metaphysics contract.

    Of course, if you look at it, that's a terrible setup for anything but casting this one nano. It uses the Foreman's collar for goodness sake. And very few players are going to have a Metaphysics contract to work with. And AI Tech 3 is necessary because you'll need to swap in Strong AI armor of some variety to get enough multi-melee to equip both Phulakterions. It's very, very likely that the best setups won't try for the 3,045 req Rihwen, because the perk (and to a lesser extent gear and IP) sacrifices are just too great. COLI 10/CONC 10/Ancient Knowledge 10/Channel Rage 10/Soothing Spirits 10/Blunt Mastery 10/Starfall 10 and full CM rather than nanoskill armor, with Asp of Titaniush in right hand and Abandonment of the Xan in the left with the 2,545 pet is almost certain to be better DD for instance than setups that can manage 3,045 MC.

    It's great though that we finally have a use for the absurd nano-skill levels MPs are capable of.

    The only change I'd really like to see with regard to the 3,045 req is a significantly reduced multi-melee requirement for Phulakterions. It won't be fun at all to swap to one set of gear to get the Phulakterions on, swap to a second set of gear to get the Gauntlet shoulder pad back on (most MPs will need the BBQ Shoulder Pillow to equip 2 high QL Phulakterions), then swap to a third nano-skill setup to summon the pet, then swap a fourth time back to the gear you're actually going to play with. It would be really, really nice if an MP who maxed multi-melee (a dark blue skill) could equip 2 QL 300 Phulakterions without having to swap gear - in other words, if the multi-melee req for QL 300 Phulakterions was 897, not 1,210.

    Edit: Very dumb arithmetic error corrected.
    Last edited by JustinSane4; Apr 3rd, 2015 at 18:43:55.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by JustinSane4 View Post
    According to AO Skill Emulator v2.38, this will give 3,430 MC/TS (cool that it came out exactly even) fully self buffed, including a ql 300 city HQ, ql 300 Mining Operations building and ql 300 org Metaphysics contract. Something is off about that though, because when I added up from my setup in game I got a very different number. Both could self the 3,045 however.
    I'm sorry but is 3430 a typo?
    I've been playing in the skill emu myself and managed to just queeze out the reqs for a nanomage in a similar obscene setup.
    On a second read i see you're saying something is off, yeah i usually save the config and then restart the app and reload it, the the numbers change...

    In any case, if the diff between tier 2 and 3 is small like 200 points there is no point in wrecking your toon imo, it's just not warranted damage.
    Please do testing when you have the time so we can get some figures on it, i can see that we do have a few figures a few posts above, but it's not that conclusive with low/high ac mobs, also it seems like the little monkey has diff crits for diff weapons as well. Do all weapons scale the same? Does the monkey get more hp with lvl? If so how does it affect HOT? etc etc.
    Don't you just hate this kind of ppl
    http://redwing.hutman.net/%7Emreed/w...rouscranus.htm

  12. #12
    As a bow MP I have some things to say:
    • You need to consider that with the faster Tigress you dont need the Eye and R-Hand implants to keep 11s AS, ever though you may keep it if you want better multiplier. Based on it, I just changed my setup to contain Eye and R-Hand symbs and CSS armor. That made me sit with overall 2.5k MC/TS.
    • It is not possible to cast it without those symbiants.
    • It is possible to cast it with my test bow setup with either +25 Phulaks and 131 wrangle or with 153 umbral wrangle and no phulak at all. Total sacrifice: 3 AI perks.
    • P.s.: I'll post my test setup (that I'll sure use live) and my cast kaiju setup.


    Thats said. I agree with Justin about the requirements: it should stay. It is a monster we had never dreamed with. I did some practical tests, aka no numbers, and the results were:
    • It drops a trader with 3k defenses HP in less than 5 seconds while full drained.
    • It toke a NT around 45s (if not more) to kill it.
    • It roflstomped Justinsane with dual shields.
    • I soloed Scary Spider with it at easy. Some debuffs here and there, swaping healpet when needed. No pet died in the process.
    • I soloed Anansi Disciple + 4 Anansi Guardians and 1 Anansi Corset just fine! 3 healpets died in the process.
    • I soloed Limnos + 4 Hecklers as a walk in a park. 1 healpet died, cause all hecklers loves healpet.

    My preliminary tests says it is OP. But balanced considering the requirements.

    I haven't tested the middle Rihwen too much but it damage template is really similar to uber Rihwen. First has 2.5k min damage per hit while second has 2.6k min damage per hit. The diference may lay in HP, HD and AR. I'll check again Scary Spider with middle ones today.

    P.s.: Phulaks mm requirements should be lessened It is suposed to be a easy to equip thing (I think).



    EDITED STUFF BELOW

    Since it is on first page, I gonna take my time to sumarise some stuff we have been discussing here. AKA, helpfull informations.

    Last edited by lainbr; Apr 6th, 2015 at 21:02:52.
    Lainbr - 220/30/70 Meta-Physicist Nanomage - E / Spirals - 220/30/70 Enforcer Solitus - E / Kokusho - 201/22/55 Fixer Nanomage - Equip Soon ;o
    Traderbr - 180/0/0 Trader Nanomage - / Kaoru - 60/0/0 Meta-Physicist Nanomage - totw semitwink
    Proud veteran of Spartans

    To devs: You failed redesigning MPs as NTs with pets. I want my debuffer back.
    Dreamer: Basically - I wish THIS much effort was put in to ALL profs rebalance docs.

    Kintaii: Genele is more hardcore than you, your guildmates, and anyone else you've ever played with
    Anarrina: Trust me, I'm not that scary in real life.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Poko View Post
    I've never played an endgame mp before..so i very well could be missing a buff..but using Channel rage / PT / Improved instill / Enraged / High chant
    Did you have weapon enhancement and aggressive construct empowerment?

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by nanoforcer View Post
    I'm sorry but is 3430 a typo?

    On a second read i see you're saying something is off, yeah i usually save the config and then restart the app and reload it, the the numbers change...
    Found the bug. Double counting nano-skills from symbs, in both equipment and implant columns. As you said, closed and re-loaded and was able to straighten it out. The post has been updated with correct (and much more sane looking) numbers.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by lainbr View Post
    As a bow MP I have some things to say:

    • It roflstomped Justinsane with dual shields.
    True, but that TL character was in betas and junk equipment at the time, and I was doing nothing to heal - no first aid, heal perks, heal pet, sitting down for heal delta, etc. It's not going to roflstomp dual SoZ MPs in game.
    Last edited by JustinSane4; Apr 3rd, 2015 at 18:50:23.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by JustinSane4 View Post
    True, but that TL character was in betas and junk equipment at the time, and I was doing nothing to heal - no first aid, heal perks, heal pet, sitting down for heal delta, etc. It's not going to roflstomp dual SoZ MPs in game.
    Zomg. I know that. But dual Szet is still a lot of defenses. And it hits! Live Rihwen woudnt land a hit at all.
    Lainbr - 220/30/70 Meta-Physicist Nanomage - E / Spirals - 220/30/70 Enforcer Solitus - E / Kokusho - 201/22/55 Fixer Nanomage - Equip Soon ;o
    Traderbr - 180/0/0 Trader Nanomage - / Kaoru - 60/0/0 Meta-Physicist Nanomage - totw semitwink
    Proud veteran of Spartans

    To devs: You failed redesigning MPs as NTs with pets. I want my debuffer back.
    Dreamer: Basically - I wish THIS much effort was put in to ALL profs rebalance docs.

    Kintaii: Genele is more hardcore than you, your guildmates, and anyone else you've ever played with
    Anarrina: Trust me, I'm not that scary in real life.

  17. #17
    ***From Psikie***

    I tested the middle pet without trouble. I plan to do some swaps and test out the top tier pet tonite. All my testing will be using unbuffed pet vs high ac dummy. I want to say my normal setup I am at 2400 ish nano skills. So going full scouts and using alba nano enhancers I think 3k is around the corner to test top pet. I also agree IF it is as nasty as I think it will be the reqs should stay

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by lainbr View Post
    It drops a trader with 3k defenses HP in less than 5 seconds while full drained.
    This was me.

    I used all 4 drains which would theoretically drop the AR of the target by 1150 (275/275/300 and 300 AAD to the Trader), on the 3k Tiig and it was still hitting 80% of the time.

    The thing is a literal beast.
    Pricecuts - 220 Trader
    Feel free to contact me via PM or in-game.

    Raggy - 220 Bureaucrat || Raggeh - 220 Fixer | Back as 'Raggys' - Shade for the time being. | Nuclei - 217 Nanotechnician || Nanobiology - 214 Doctor

    Tip #743: As noted in Tip #244, tea bags have an infinite variety of uses. However, there's always one jerk who will want to give you crap over drinking tea. Particularly if in a new town, use this as an opportunity to assert yourself. Any drunken idiot can win a bar fight. It takes a real man to win a bar fight while enjoying a cup of Earl Grey.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Raggy View Post
    This was me.

    I used all 4 drains which would theoretically drop the AR of the target by 1150 (275/275/300 and 300 AAD to the Trader), on the 3k Tiig and it was still hitting 80% of the time.

    The thing is a literal beast.
    Plunder and Deprive don't debuff AAO any longer, so those debuffs don't do anything to pets or mobs other than debuff nano-skills (which doesn't help against Rihwen). So only the 300 AAD/-300 AAO were helping you there. Traders have vastly better defensive debuffs against players than against monsters.

  20. #20
    Well, looks like my MP will officially be retired. S42 never runs when I can make it these days, I don't have the IPR to swap to a different weapon, and pistols require too many perks for me to be able to cast even the 2.5k reqs pet. With a full set of alphas, all but helm of ql300 CS, and swapping to nano research hud, I'll be 5 points off on MC. Maybe if I can make enough S42s in the future to get more IPRs I'll play him again.

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