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Thread: 18.7.0.24 Testlive notes.

  1. #1

    18.7.0.24 Testlive notes.

    Heh hemm...

    In case anyone's curious, I did give Michi an apology. :P

    It seems I snapped at him a little soon, but like I said, I had no idea what he had in store (if anything) for us.

    Well, luckily, he did have some nice presents in store. There are a few bugs to iron out, but we are making a good solid step in the right direction for a change.

    In case you somehow missed the mammoth-sized patch notes, here they are again.

    Nano Technician
    Increased the min damage on Garuk's nuke
    A certain lunatic is in possession of a particular protective nano formula
    Nanodecks have a 28m range
    SL nukes all have a 2/1 attack/recharge; some costs were reduced
    Lowered the AI requirement for AI DoTs; removed the AI Level requirement to assemble the programs
    Nanobot Guard will reduce the nano of the NT to 0 upon ending; if the NT has a Nanobot Shelter nano, it will be cast at the end of Nanobot Guard
    Offensive/Defensive focus will last for 2 minutes
    Nano Heal is now a team nano heal perk, with a 30 second recharge
    Tap Notum source no longer cares if the NT is in the Shadowlands
    Flim Focus will provide a pre-defined amount of Nano Initiative, based on the amount of invested perks
    Program Overload will provide a 25% damage increase
    Enhanced Nano Damage will offer slightly greater increases to damage
    Delayed nukes no longer have a capped casting time
    Izgimmer's Wealth has a 90 second recharge
    Absorb Shields have a 2s recharge with a 5s cooldown
    Nano Reist debuffing nukes have had their casting cap removed, with an 8-second cooldown
    Added nano "Izgimmer's Blessing," +180 Matter Creation
    Nullity Sphere should allow for slightly more mobility
    Blinds will only reduce AAO; Optic Plague will not have a cooldown on the target


    Overall, a solid QoL improvement that we can definitely all appreciate.

    Let's break this down.

    The good:
    More damage in all forms. I'd nudge our damage up from poor to good now, on my own personal damage rating scale.
    Nanobot Guard has been tweaked as we requested.
    The delayed nukes actually look almost worth using. I want to explore this idea more...
    AI DoT's are easier to use.
    NR debuffs are less intrusive to use.
    Obviously more, but those are the highlights.

    The bad:
    Offensive / Defensive focus still exist, but... I think we can make the best of it by exploring other options to make it more relevant. It kind of isn't currently, but I think there are little tweaks that can make it make more sense.

    The Ugly:
    (these are just bugs really)
    Nanobot Guard doesn't have a casting animation.
    The Looping Service absorb proc overwrites even Superior Fleeting Immunity. I don't know if it can be an *additional* absorb in its own nanoline, but it's obviously not intended to do that.
    Izgimmer's Tactical Nuke does not display as nano damage in the combat window. I mean, it doesn't show "You hit Leet with nanobots for over-9000 points of some-kind-of damage"
    Superior Fleeting Immunity's recharge was not included in the line cooldown change. It is still 4.6ish seconds.

    So, finally we have things pushing us to a positive position to where NT's are currently on live. I'm still playing around on test, but I can say for the first time in a very long time, it felt good to play NT. I'm so used to complete disappointment and frustration. This was good. Definitely a good step in the right direction, but there's still more loose ends to tie up.

    In terms of loose ends, I mean my 220's will be happier which is top priority, but lower levels are still in a pretty rough spot. Froobs have gotten nothing so far, and in regards to that, Rubi Ka nukes are still a huge mess. Most of them just need to go, or something... I personally haven't looked too closely at them all yet.

    I would like to explore the idea of Offensive / Defensive focus a little more in the future, also. If we have a few more options in Offensive focus, it will make more sense (hinting toward true glass cannon maybe?) However, I think we could make a few fair trades, since a glass cannon should be a near suicidal approach to playing.

    Trades I'm thinking would be losing primarily Dark Movement. As NT's, we don't really evade anything, but if we had a little bump in that area to get another miss here and there, it would be helpful to more well define "Defensive Focus" Adding a few points of evades to the Defensive Focus debuff would be nice. But, if you want to be Offensive, you should be hit more by design, so Dark Movement should be terminated along with the inability to use NS2. However, Offensive Focus should make you hit harder and faster. Why not add a bit more damage and nano init to the Offensive Focus debuff? Although I wasn't a huge fan of the delay nukes at first, it seems like a good concept that can adapt in the future. Maybe other sorts of nukes that work similarly could more well define Offensive Focus, and give it a real purpose. Just another random thought of mine...

    Like I said, I'm still playing around on test, but things do appear to be finally moving in a positive direction. It's been a while since we could say that, and I'm quite glad I can.

    Last, but certainly not least, a big thanks to Michi for his hard work. I think I speak for everyone when I say we really appreciate finally getting some of the love and attention we've so badly needed.
    Vinkera - Soli NT - 426k DPM - Setup
    Robbey - Soli Crat

    Lone anarchists - Tower of Babil

    Celez - Soli Doc
    Loaloa - Soli Enf
    Wondershot - Nano Soldier
    Robzor - Soli Engi
    Proserpexa - Opi Agent

    Trying out civilization - Storm

  2. #2
    I don't think Izgimmer's Tactical Nuke and stuff in that line are affected by our %nanodamage since it executes not from us, so to speak.
    Don't you just hate this kind of ppl
    http://redwing.hutman.net/%7Emreed/w...rouscranus.htm

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by nanoforcer View Post
    I don't think Izgimmer's Tactical Nuke and stuff in that line are affected by our %nanodamage since it executes not from us, so to speak.
    You are right. Same issue with the LE AoE Nukes.
    keep smiling
    Najade s, Najengi s, Najngi s, Najmp s, Shadysannz, Toccata, Frobos, Chaodoc, Najcrat, Najtank
    sannz - ENL - NR01-GOLF-11
    a time of changing has begun; the leaves are fallen and undone; inside my spirit starts to run; and all my fears are overcome. - Chiasm, Rewind, 2005

  4. #4
    Guys, since we had a bunch of changes, we certainly have a few bugs to sort out.

    I think I got most. (I know I missed Izgimmer's Blessing), and Nanoforcer got the damage issue with the offensive nukes. If you find any, drop a mention of it here, and if you posted a bug report, adding a link would be a nice touch.

    Michi and I exchanged a few PM's and he's going to be taking a look at bugs next week. I told him we would make a list here that he can refer to. I think we covered most, if not all, already, but if anyone knows something we missed, please make a note of it here.
    Last edited by Vinkera; Apr 3rd, 2015 at 18:41:39.
    Vinkera - Soli NT - 426k DPM - Setup
    Robbey - Soli Crat

    Lone anarchists - Tower of Babil

    Celez - Soli Doc
    Loaloa - Soli Enf
    Wondershot - Nano Soldier
    Robzor - Soli Engi
    Proserpexa - Opi Agent

    Trying out civilization - Storm

  5. #5
    Flim focus -> Utilize chain is broken. Utilize cant be used at all and gives "You must recently have [missing] running!" text
    [Robosapiens - 220eng] [Melchran - 220nt] [Mirkku - 207agent] [Litina -157doc] [Fatina -157fix] [Notatina - 116trader] [Lotina - 110nt] [Notina - 95enf] [Tupu - 95sold] [Hotina 76agent] [Clotclown - 43agent] [Melchram - 30agent] [Jytina 21trader]

  6. #6
    Really like the mc buffs, but will they be scaled for lvling nts?
    50 mc at lvl 50
    100 mc at 100
    180 mc at 150 or something like that.

    Having seen the new mp pet as well, I think the scaling nano reqs would be quite useful for us as well. When lvling on nt, it's frustrating that having more mc than is required to cast whatever nuke you want is not rewarded. For the other professions they get increased damage. I think if you spent time equipping well, or twinking mc you should be rewarded with being able to cast a higher version of that nuke.

    Ok, so the obvious answer is if you have more mc you can cast a higher rk nuke. But by the time your at lvl 100 or so your already casting ief or searing stream etc and theres no more nukes to aim for.

    With the lvl locked sl nukes having the atk/rec times reduced its a good time to bring them more into use. Often the nano cost makes them more difficult than rk nanos to chain cast. what about if they had 2 tiers to them.

    Example, Spiders secret lvl from 100, needs x mc to cast and does whatever damage,
    But if you have "much higher" mc it casts with whatever "higher damage. "

    Not at pc atm so can't see numbers.

    This change could affect all or just the top of a lvl locked set of sl nanos. So if there's 2 nukes that can be used at lvl 75 just have the higher one with the different damage tiers.
    Would be nice at higher lvls too, iu and such.

    Var
    Last edited by Variable; Apr 4th, 2015 at 10:59:12.
    Varsbot
    Variable004

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Variable View Post
    Really like the mc buffs, but will they be scaled for lvling nts?
    50 mc at lvl 50
    100 mc at 100
    180 mc at 150 or something like that.

    Having seen the new mp pet as well, I think the scaling nano reqs would be quite useful for us as well. When lvling on nt, it's frustrating that having more mc than is required to cast whatever nuke you want is not rewarded. For the other professions they get increased damage. I think if you spent time equipping well, or twinking mc you should be rewarded with being able to cast a higher version of that nuke.

    Ok, so the obvious answer is if you have more mc you can cast a higher rk nuke. But by the time your at lvl 100 or so your already casting ief or searing stream etc and theres no more nukes to aim for.

    With the lvl locked sl nukes having the atk/rec times reduced its a good time to bring them more into use. Often the nano cost makes them more difficult than rk nanos to chain cast. what about if they had 2 tiers to them.

    Example, Spiders secret lvl from 100, needs x mc to cast and does whatever damage,
    But if you have "much higher" mc it casts with whatever "higher damage. "

    Not at pc atm so can't see numbers.

    This change could affect all or just the top of a lvl locked set of sl nanos. So if there's 2 nukes that can be used at lvl 75 just have the higher one with the different damage tiers.
    Would be nice at higher lvls too, iu and such.

    Var
    Yes, this patch brought us a big step in the right direction. Currently, Michi and I are really focused on getting our 220's happy first, as selfish as that may sound. But, other things are planned once we get the basics ironed out, and 18.7 hits live. I can say, it's been a very difficult time for my NT's over the past several months, but 18.7 will bring a good sigh of relief finally. However, all of your points I definitely have touched upon, or at least thought about.

    One big thing I want for my SL nukes is what I've been calling "Nuke OE". Basically, you have to at least meet the MC requirement to upload the nuke, just as you would to equip a weapon. However, if your MC dips below the requirement, you are still able to cast it, but at a penalty at certain percentages below the original value. I don't see why we couldn't give a little boost them if your MC is higher, though. Even if it causes your lower level nuke's damage range to match or slightly exceed the next nuke available. It would certainly open the door to twinking a lower level NT, which at this time is rather pointless. This really would just require some math to figure out the values, then whatever magic Michi has to work to make it work like GIVA, but also in reverse to accomplish Nuke OE.

    Exploring RK nukes and what to do with them is on my mind. I'd be willing to say at least 80% of them are complete garbage that need to just be deleted. If you or anyone else has any ideas, I'm definitely accepting suggestions. I haven't really gone through them yet to brainstorm anything, myself.

    In terms of the MC buff, it was clearly added quickly, so it will get another look. I'd expect we will be receiving lower versions at some point, also. In terms of what it is now, I think the level lock needs attention, however. I think this buff should be froobable, and obviously requiring level 201 shuts them out. But, does it need a level lock at all? The casting requirements are already much higher than MC Mocham's are, so I think we can do without the level lock. That should make it castable loosely around 140-170 for paid, which would be a welcomed change. TL 4, 5, and 6 NT's are still going to struggle for the time being, in terms of damage, so giving them a little love would be nice.

    Overall, good suggestions, and we're both on the same page. I hope to see these things happen at some point, but it would be after 18.7 goes live.
    Vinkera - Soli NT - 426k DPM - Setup
    Robbey - Soli Crat

    Lone anarchists - Tower of Babil

    Celez - Soli Doc
    Loaloa - Soli Enf
    Wondershot - Nano Soldier
    Robzor - Soli Engi
    Proserpexa - Opi Agent

    Trying out civilization - Storm

  8. #8
    Looks like some of the MP Matter Creation buffs have opened up to NTs though, that should help the lower levels.
    Last edited by Auct; Apr 4th, 2015 at 12:54:54. Reason: typo

  9. #9
    1 mc point per lvl on a scaling nano that you get from level 1, tops out at 220 mc. Don't think that would be hard to do or too much of a boost no?
    Considering to high reqs for top tier GIVA nuke and all.
    Last edited by nanoforcer; Apr 4th, 2015 at 13:37:11.
    Don't you just hate this kind of ppl
    http://redwing.hutman.net/%7Emreed/w...rouscranus.htm

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by nanoforcer View Post
    1 mc point per lvl on a scaling nano that you get from level 1, tops out at 220 mc. Don't think that would be hard to do or too much of a boost no?
    That's actually a pretty clever idea, but lowbie's would suffer if they can't twink into a fixed MC buff, and therefore not be able to self cast a nuke they'd otherwise be capable of. :P
    Vinkera - Soli NT - 426k DPM - Setup
    Robbey - Soli Crat

    Lone anarchists - Tower of Babil

    Celez - Soli Doc
    Loaloa - Soli Enf
    Wondershot - Nano Soldier
    Robzor - Soli Engi
    Proserpexa - Opi Agent

    Trying out civilization - Storm

  11. #11
    Well lowbies could always use mochams instead, as it is now they belong to the same nanoline so it's really about making choices for what buff is best in what situation/level
    After 140 they would get by on their own
    Last edited by nanoforcer; Apr 4th, 2015 at 13:50:41.
    Don't you just hate this kind of ppl
    http://redwing.hutman.net/%7Emreed/w...rouscranus.htm

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by nanoforcer View Post
    Well lowbies could always use mochams instead, as it is now they belong to the same nanoline so it's really about making choices for what buff is best in what situation/level
    After 140 they would get by on their own
    I still think we're going to be better off with some buffs of our own at fixed values.

    I'd like to shy away from begging MP's for buffs, since we should have a fair amount of self-buffability anyway, at any level. As a damage profession, we should be able to self buff decently, even if at low levels an MC mocham would be superior. Setting fixed values would give potential for low level NT twinks, also. I did make a level 60 NT, once upon a time, and it was far from impressive, unless I had MP buffs. If I had had a self MC buff, I would have been a bit happier with that toon's result.

    I do like your idea, but I think we should start with a few fixed value buffs first. I'm sure MP's wouldn't mind, since lowbie NT's are always bugging them as things are now. Lets say if a level 75 NT could get into a +80 buff (or there abouts) on their own, they'd be less likely to even bother trying to hunt down an MP and beg for buffs.
    Vinkera - Soli NT - 426k DPM - Setup
    Robbey - Soli Crat

    Lone anarchists - Tower of Babil

    Celez - Soli Doc
    Loaloa - Soli Enf
    Wondershot - Nano Soldier
    Robzor - Soli Engi
    Proserpexa - Opi Agent

    Trying out civilization - Storm

  13. #13
    To expand on my previous post, and recognise that Michi has already considered lower level NTs, here are some copy/pastes from Testlive at 18.7.0.24:

    Code:
    Nano Crystal (Teachings of Material Creation)
    Rarity: Unknown
    Quality level: 21
    Requirements:
    Use:
    
    On Self:
      Sensory Impr from 108 and 
      Psycho Modi from 108 and 
      . Visual Profession: Nano-Technician or 
      . Visual Profession: Meta-Physicist
    
    Modifier:
    On User:
      Upload nanoprogram Teachings of Material Creation
    
    Description:
    Nano Crystal - Increases the Material Creation skill of the target by 25 points.
    Code:
    Nano Crystal (MatCrea Mastery)
    Rarity: Unknown
    Quality level: 43
    Requirements:
    Use:
    
    On Self:
      Sensory Impr from 208 and 
      Psycho Modi from 208 and 
      . Visual Profession: Nano-Technician or 
      . Visual Profession: Meta-Physicist
    
    Modifier:
    On User:
      Upload nanoprogram MatCrea Mastery
    
    Description:
    Nano Crystal - Increases the MatCrea skill of the target by 50 points.
    Code:
    Nano Crystal (NT: Izgimmer's Blessing)
    Rarity: Unknown
    Quality level: 200
    Requirements:
    Use:
    
    On Self:
      Level from 201 and 
      Meta-Physicist and 
      Sensory Impr from 965 and 
      Psycho Modi from 965
    
    Modifier:
    On User:
      Upload nanoprogram Izgimmer's Blessing
    
    Description:
    Nano Crystal - Increases the MatCrea skill of the target by 180 points.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Auct View Post
    To expand on my previous post, and recognise that Michi has already considered lower level NTs, here are some copy/pastes from Testlive at 18.7.0.24:

    Code:
    Nano Crystal (Teachings of Material Creation)
    Rarity: Unknown
    Quality level: 21
    Requirements:
    Use:
    
    On Self:
      Sensory Impr from 108 and 
      Psycho Modi from 108 and 
      . Visual Profession: Nano-Technician or 
      . Visual Profession: Meta-Physicist
    
    Modifier:
    On User:
      Upload nanoprogram Teachings of Material Creation
    
    Description:
    Nano Crystal - Increases the Material Creation skill of the target by 25 points.
    Code:
    Nano Crystal (MatCrea Mastery)
    Rarity: Unknown
    Quality level: 43
    Requirements:
    Use:
    
    On Self:
      Sensory Impr from 208 and 
      Psycho Modi from 208 and 
      . Visual Profession: Nano-Technician or 
      . Visual Profession: Meta-Physicist
    
    Modifier:
    On User:
      Upload nanoprogram MatCrea Mastery
    
    Description:
    Nano Crystal - Increases the MatCrea skill of the target by 50 points.
    Code:
    Nano Crystal (NT: Izgimmer's Blessing)
    Rarity: Unknown
    Quality level: 200
    Requirements:
    Use:
    
    On Self:
      Level from 201 and 
      Meta-Physicist and 
      Sensory Impr from 965 and 
      Psycho Modi from 965
    
    Modifier:
    On User:
      Upload nanoprogram Izgimmer's Blessing
    
    Description:
    Nano Crystal - Increases the MatCrea skill of the target by 180 points.
    Ah, I actually didn't look at those
    Vinkera - Soli NT - 426k DPM - Setup
    Robbey - Soli Crat

    Lone anarchists - Tower of Babil

    Celez - Soli Doc
    Loaloa - Soli Enf
    Wondershot - Nano Soldier
    Robzor - Soli Engi
    Proserpexa - Opi Agent

    Trying out civilization - Storm

  15. #15
    I don't really play my NT much, but been checking the changes on test and I think the way NT is heading towards a more balanced class.

    The changes sofar are looking good, but I still think that the NT burst damage in PVP is a bit high esp with a long range melee weapon added.. In endgame PVE you can really burn though your nano quite fast if you want to max your DPS.. I would love to see that part getting a bit more balanced and maybe make some of the LE procs offensive now that the NT can auto attack aswell with the deck.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Solams View Post
    I don't really play my NT much, but been checking the changes on test and I think the way NT is heading towards a more balanced class.

    The changes sofar are looking good, but I still think that the NT burst damage in PVP is a bit high esp with a long range melee weapon added.. In endgame PVE you can really burn though your nano quite fast if you want to max your DPS.. I would love to see that part getting a bit more balanced and maybe make some of the LE procs offensive now that the NT can auto attack aswell with the deck.
    I wouldn't give the cyberdeck too much credit yet. It's what I would call ironed out yet, so I won't advocate swapping LE procs to be offensive at this time.

    Nano usage has always been an issue, and is for pretty much any NT, at any level. IW as it is on live was a pretty oddball approach to try to address that, but it was nice having a large nanopool. Having the heal is nice too, but losing the massive nanopool sucks at the same time. I'm kind of indifferent to that change, it seems fair enough from what I've tested. But, nano regeneration is something that needs to be addressed properly. Hopefully after 18.7 comes out, we can take a crack at it.

    In terms of burst damage, NT's are pretty slow, but still hit pretty hard, when playing defensively. Offensively, we lost triples, so everyone else should be pretty happy with that. I don't see how NT's could do damage faster than a soldier. If anything, I'd expect it to be pretty similar. Considering a soldier can have multiple specials, GIVA is ours, and it hits harder than aimed shot or full auto because it's all we have. Our delayed nukes are still being sorted out, but may equate to burst when they're working properly. However, using those, we can't use Nullity Sphere, which is rather risky. So, we either kill quickly or die ourselves. Either way, PVP'ing against an NT won't last too long, and it's not really supposed to.
    Vinkera - Soli NT - 426k DPM - Setup
    Robbey - Soli Crat

    Lone anarchists - Tower of Babil

    Celez - Soli Doc
    Loaloa - Soli Enf
    Wondershot - Nano Soldier
    Robzor - Soli Engi
    Proserpexa - Opi Agent

    Trying out civilization - Storm

  17. #17
    A little off topic, but kinda fun. I made a video of my Testlive toon soloing Ljotur the Luny Bin.

    You can check it out here:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tvpt_DtNmKM
    Vinkera - Soli NT - 426k DPM - Setup
    Robbey - Soli Crat

    Lone anarchists - Tower of Babil

    Celez - Soli Doc
    Loaloa - Soli Enf
    Wondershot - Nano Soldier
    Robzor - Soli Engi
    Proserpexa - Opi Agent

    Trying out civilization - Storm

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Auct View Post
    Looks like some of the MP Matter Creation buffs have opened up to NTs though, that should help the lower levels.
    O.o wow... that's neat.
    Thor Mastablasta Hammersmith - Level 220, AI 30, LE 70 Clan Atrox Nano Technician - Setup
    The Red Brotherhood

    I'm a Nano-Technician, don't ever expect me to fight unbuffed, alone or fair.

    Means: about f'ing time :P
    Satenia: heresy <3
    Znore: Mastablasta <3
    Kinkstaah: I have agro from many mobs ;(
    Madarab: we are aoe class, we are supose to use pistols
    Marxgorm: the NT toolset does not fit into my raiding tactics

  19. #19
    Does that include the MC Infuse?

    Ophiuchus : 220/30/80 HAHA etc
    Nahuatl
    :: 220/30/80 Melee 4lyfe
    Khurkh :: 220/30/80 healtankpew
    Transcendence
    Msanthropic
    : 210/26/60 nanostab
    Spidershiva :: 165/23/42 kite? eh?
    Silentmotion
    : 150/20/42 tankthink
    The Union

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiuchus View Post
    Does that include the MC Infuse?
    Not at this time.

    I think it wouldn't be a bad addition, though.
    Vinkera - Soli NT - 426k DPM - Setup
    Robbey - Soli Crat

    Lone anarchists - Tower of Babil

    Celez - Soli Doc
    Loaloa - Soli Enf
    Wondershot - Nano Soldier
    Robzor - Soli Engi
    Proserpexa - Opi Agent

    Trying out civilization - Storm

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