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Thread: Why MAs are gimp, solutions?

  1. #1

    Why MAs are gimp, solutions?

    Many people are complaining about advs and wanting to nerf them. Solution is not to nerf adv but to raise other lacking professions to their level.
    Unnerf MAs and MPs (the weakest profs in any scale, have done gauntlet recently with these and died repeteadly, no team invites even when no use to any team) first before considering any changes to adv. Any coon profession gains considerable edge in pvp and PVM due to players and mobs different damage type (at least in SL).

    MA is a joke when compared to shade for example. Give MAs pvp love by giving us sneak attack on tonfa like melee adv has (no more some silly hotfix swap or attacks that just adds to already stressfull gimp profession to play). At least give MAs MA attack book which contains all the attacks (and from it you can make hotkeys) and you won't have to clutter your inventory with tens of items.

    MAs need also aao drains to PVM to raise them to shade level. Also introduce way to give hud crit items +50 aad when used by MA. That will ease the cap between PVM and pvp setup.
    We need to do damage and be able to maintain reasonable defence that is on par with adv coon, evades and heals. Also runspeed needs increase, 220 melee running class MA in full alpha symbs doesn't have even capped 2500 rs wtf? This is easy to do by increasing the amount velocity rs buff buffs runspeed.

    MAs need to be as wanted as crat or shade for the team, otherwise there is no balance between the professions. Yes I'm bored to be always asked to log my crat when doing PVM, even lacking Gauntlet pads on very old MA main toon because of no usefulness to team.

  2. #2
    MA's could easily get sneak attack on tonfa, but i'd think just drop their dimach to 2 minutes or something really low, it would be more lore appropriate. MA's are honorable warriors they should use their skill to deliver unavoidable attacks.

    So step 1. Nerf shades to MA level.
    step 2. improve Bow perklines for pvp. If AS is to be the staple of all pvp... well sucks MAs need it.
    Option, give MA attacks some kind of debuffs,
    Improve parry skill, so you can for example deflect aimed shots or give it engi like absorb specials nano with parry requirement.

    MAs generaly become gimp after lvl 200, but not becouse of bad design, but becouse add damage was added to perks their crit setup suffers.. solution? Improve fist attacks, change damage templates so MA attacks just do moredamage. 20-30% would help a lot.

    Defenses wise.. MA is perfectly good at evading and staying alive, just killing power is a bit lame. That is compared to Shades...

    Overall MA's are well off compared to other traditional damage dealers that are just shafted as is in 2015. Especialy NT's are a joke.
    Quote Originally Posted by Michizure View Post
    This'll be fixed for the next patch

  3. #3
    dropping dimach to 2 minutes wouldn't accomplish anything tbh.

    The whole point of getting SA on tonfa is so you don't have to swap, which gives potentially 2 capping hits.

    But, I'll tell you right now that dimach is no longer a capping special, it won't even cap vs fixers, which is a bit ridiculous.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Spirulina View Post
    MA is a joke when compared to shade for example.
    As they should be.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spirulina View Post
    MAs need also aao drains to PVM to raise them to shade level.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cratertina View Post
    Nerf shades to MA level.
    Why on earth should MA's be raised to shade level (or shades be nerfed to MA's level) ? This is the worst gibberish I've read in a while. Shade is an expansion-profession, and therefore should remain more powerful (in something and in this case you know it's DD) than a non-expansion-profession.

    And before you play that card, yes, I've played endgame MA, and in my opinion they're fine.

    Unless you're trox as a shade you have to sacrifice alot of defense for high AR. So the question when it comes to shade's power basically resides in removing Mongo Rage from troxes. And this of course only applies to PVP.
    Jihnna 220/30/80 Shade
    Underworld

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Jihnna View Post
    As they should be.


    Why on earth should MA's be raised to shade level (or shades be nerfed to MA's level) ? This is the worst gibberish I've read in a while. Shade is an expansion-profession, and therefore should remain more powerful (in something and in this case you know it's DD) than a non-expansion-profession.

    And before you play that card, yes, I've played endgame MA, and in my opinion they're fine.

    Unless you're trox as a shade you have to sacrifice alot of defense for high AR. So the question when it comes to shade's power basically resides in removing Mongo Rage from troxes. And this of course only applies to PVP.
    Mostly a load of BS when it comes to the reasons presented. Shades were introduced in an expansion but all professions have benefits from said expansion and at least two of them can routinely outperform shades in DD (their main role) in most endgame raids/events. There have been many expansions and the Shade/Keeper power from SL should obviously be balanced along with other professions by now (like on every other successful major MMO.. because it's a logic way to go about it).
    Froobs can't compete with paid because they lack the items and extended profession toolset that came with all of the expansions. That's all there is to THAT.

    MAs need some tweaking, especially in PvP, but somewhat in PvM as well as there's very little reason to play one at endgame these days as they're "mini shades". Sort of like MP's have become Mocham sticks and Keepers (another expansion profession) have become 12m anti-fear sticks. There are exceptions but that's usually the way it's been going with those profs.

    The MA tweak should come with 18.7 according to the information we have so far, though MAs need a good professional standing up for them, I guess.

    One tip though, don't compare MAs to Shades. Compare them to themselves. They should have their own unique toolset and they should be useful without "we do as well on this as <insert professions>!". Shades don't really need nerfing. Even Mongo Rage doesn't really need a nerf.. other breeds should just have similarly useful (though different in nature) perks to shake things up a little.
    Michizure is love, Michizure is life.
    --
    Dywas - 220/30/70 Neutral Nanomage Nano-Technician
    Caramela - 220/30/70 Neutral Solitus Doctor
    Desejos - 220/30/?? Neutral Atrox Enforcer
    Gretchenross - 220/30/?? Neutral Opifex Shade
    Bizzle - 220/30/70 Neutral Atrox Soldier

    --<3 Professional love--
    * Aiken pets Lazy on the head. Sure it is, you keep telling self that
    <Aiken> such a cutesy clammer aren't you *cheekpinch*
    <Lazy>
    <Lazy> viva la revolucion
    * Dywas decides to walk away from the soon-to-be sexytime
    <Aiken> lol Dywas, Id make a man of him
    <Lazy> Dywas, i'd go gay for aiken. no lie

  6. #6
    Digi +1
    Jihana -34

    wtf was that?

  7. #7
    Jihnna 220/30/80 Shade
    Underworld

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Jihnna View Post
    Good thing Genele is out and Michi seems to not want any of that nonsense anymore. Thanks for reminding us.
    Michizure is love, Michizure is life.
    --
    Dywas - 220/30/70 Neutral Nanomage Nano-Technician
    Caramela - 220/30/70 Neutral Solitus Doctor
    Desejos - 220/30/?? Neutral Atrox Enforcer
    Gretchenross - 220/30/?? Neutral Opifex Shade
    Bizzle - 220/30/70 Neutral Atrox Soldier

    --<3 Professional love--
    * Aiken pets Lazy on the head. Sure it is, you keep telling self that
    <Aiken> such a cutesy clammer aren't you *cheekpinch*
    <Lazy>
    <Lazy> viva la revolucion
    * Dywas decides to walk away from the soon-to-be sexytime
    <Aiken> lol Dywas, Id make a man of him
    <Lazy> Dywas, i'd go gay for aiken. no lie

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Jihnna View Post
    Unless you're trox as a shade you have to sacrifice alot of defense for high AR. So the question when it comes to shade's power basically resides in removing Mongo Rage from troxes. And this of course only applies to PVP.
    True it isn't like opi shade for example can swap on will spirit def/off, and items like def/off board/hud3..... It isn't like people like psikon, zephnyr (or Shaymin who tend to be good) proved already that you don't need to be atrox to be efficient or OP (feb,expert <3)....
    Eilistrae 220/30/70 MA equip pic //Araushne 216/30 NT equip pic // Nhaundar 220/30 pic equip // Ahlysaaria 220/30 equip
    Dritst 220/30 Agent equip pic // Vhaeraun 218/30 fixer // Dylinrae 217/30 trader // Seldszar 220/29 adv
    Nhaundar 216/16 Trox enf <3 equip

    * http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...d.php?t=544974 <3 ty, how some ppl can be
    * S*rovi1: cant log in game funcom not responding Mrdex: they're translating Mrdex: give em some time.
    * Phante: whining is directly proportional with incompetence imo the more you sux the more youll cry and ask for stupid stuff.
    * [Provision]: 500m if you can even dent me You gained 103 PVP Solo Score.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by dritst View Post
    and items like def/off board/hud3....
    Every profession can do those, so not a valid argument.
    Jihnna 220/30/80 Shade
    Underworld

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Jihnna View Post
    Unless you're trox as a shade you have to sacrifice alot of defense for high AR. So the question when it comes to shade's power basically resides in removing Mongo Rage from troxes. And this of course only applies to PVP.
    Every profession can do those, so not a valid argument.
    can swap on will spirit def/off, and items like def/off board/hud3

    Sadly that could explain your previous statement if you play as you are quoting other, using 50% of your toolset And that is a valid argument
    Last edited by dritst; Jan 9th, 2015 at 13:27:28.
    Eilistrae 220/30/70 MA equip pic //Araushne 216/30 NT equip pic // Nhaundar 220/30 pic equip // Ahlysaaria 220/30 equip
    Dritst 220/30 Agent equip pic // Vhaeraun 218/30 fixer // Dylinrae 217/30 trader // Seldszar 220/29 adv
    Nhaundar 216/16 Trox enf <3 equip

    * http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...d.php?t=544974 <3 ty, how some ppl can be
    * S*rovi1: cant log in game funcom not responding Mrdex: they're translating Mrdex: give em some time.
    * Phante: whining is directly proportional with incompetence imo the more you sux the more youll cry and ask for stupid stuff.
    * [Provision]: 500m if you can even dent me You gained 103 PVP Solo Score.

  12. #12
    I can read, you were just making too many arguments and some of those were invalid.
    Jihnna 220/30/80 Shade
    Underworld

  13. #13
    I made some suggestions some time ago
    Still like them but probably its just me

    http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...uit-suggestion


    get a better snare attack from uoawos would also be sexy

    and skill lock on infantry symbs
    Last edited by Mesa; Jan 11th, 2015 at 11:41:46.
    meep

  14. #14
    MA's will not get any better for a very long time until there is a solid understanding of why they are so UP.

    In my opinion, the reasons why MA are so UP are:

    1. they rely on 2 swaps to PVP 'adequately'
    2. they cannot get enough AS skill to reliably cap hits vs high HP profs, reflect profs OR -crit profs (they WERE able to vs low HP profs, but we now do not have any more low HP profs in game - with the possible exception of crat who, in a PVP setup comes in with about 13-14k HP)
    3. they rely on yet another poor weapon choice for SA's which, when coupled with crit resist OR high HP OR reflects OR decent AC's... will result in a hit smaller than a normal fist hit (~1.5k damage avg)
    4. they STILL are contending with slowdown (wtf?)
    5. They do not have enough healing to keep up with how much damage is dished out regularly given how much all profs HP (inc MA) has increased in the last 8 years or so. (meaning, MA's can not reliably outheal ANY alpha, MR anyone?)
    6. MA defence has stagnated since 2007ish, while AR across the board has gradually crept up


    TL;DR MA offense is at 2007 levels, MA defence is at 2007 levels, and while MA HP has gradually crept up, there's no evidence to suggest that high HP setup's fare BETTER than low HP setups, but because we're fighting targets with significantly higher HP than we were in 2007, the result is that our kill capability is significantly reduced.

    Contrary to Agents who have a buff for 200% crit - which they can pop to actually GET crits in PVP (rifle/PE swap), MAs are stuck with about 20% effective crit rate in PVP (halved in PVP, - crit % on targets) which results in poor AS/SA damage generally.
    Last edited by McKnuckleSamwich; Jan 11th, 2015 at 23:35:15.

  15. #15
    Heya
    My Opinion to your Points:
    1) Swapping weapons is one of the fun parts of the MA prof and makes it special, I think this concept is kinda cool.
    2) I think only agents should have a 100% capped AS special every 11s. (if you are Opi try bow of belith for a higher AS)
    3) Sneak Attack is something that helps vs evaders and in some alpha situations. Its not a save capped hit and I dont think it should get one..
    4) agree this is some very effective nemesis.. especially compared to most other nanos
    5) thats a good point.. In a def setup with focus on evades I think the MA prof has a good survivability but when you do this, you loose a lot of your ability to actually make dmg in pvp
    6) yep, but I think the biggest problem are classes a MA cant perk

    only when a MA uses weapons his critrate is halfed in pvp. Sure specials come from weapons so there we have the same problem like other classes.
    meep

  16. #16
    I enjoy the swapping part and would never want to get rid of it. Makes MA different and "harder" to play in pvp. However, you guys shouldn't ask too much or you just make MA too overpowered.
    We have one of the best gank alphas in this game and the amount of heal items makes us able to survive pretty much any gank attempt but the locks of those heals are a bit too long and that is probably
    the reason why most "pvp" MAs are just dueling. Also low hp setups are NOT working so well anymore so could use a healing boost either by improving heal nanos or shortening
    the lockdowns of our healing tools.

    One thing that would make me really happy would be fixing the damage types. Anvil fists should have have
    "Damage override type temp set to melee" so we would do same damage type with all swaps/perks/fists. Or make our SL perks change damage type (currently they always remain melee dmg)

    Also I think martial artist critical rate is NOT halved in pvp like it is for other profs.
    Last edited by Paavalniemi; Jan 12th, 2015 at 13:43:14.

  17. #17
    Critrate is halfed when you use a weapon.
    Skilllock in symbs would slightly help with MA attacks, first aids and root grafts.. but this change is far away from making the class OP
    Also better snare in uoawos would help with ppl that only kite and use the serversync cheat.. this is no fun at all with a MA running and running behind ppl that only special every 11s.
    A bit more def in a backitem wouldnt hurt as well..
    meep

  18. #18
    well to be honest... my ma works great in duelling there are a few points which i would love to get.
    1.) Recharge of evasive stance should be at least the same as mr to counter it.
    2.) Fist of dominator ( in symbs there are 144 nano resist) please update it with some more benefits like under 200 so and so and above lvl 200 more or something
    3.) I would like to have ql 300 specials to get more dmg out of my kit, so do it like for the shades: let us spawn pocket bosses who dropps ql 300 UWOS etc.
    4.) there is a big joke that i found out last time after playing so long: You get through the research 55 pts more SI then BM there is no difference where you need so much more si then bm... reduce bm like on the add dmg nanos to make sense in that. And there is no really good equippment (even alpha equipped) where you can use the high add dmg nano without any outbuffs...
    5.) please leave zazen ... our healpower will be enough with deflect. .. just give us also higher parry and reposte buffs
    6.) a higher evade buff or kinda a combined of %evade close combat and the other evadebuff without taking away those abis or something would be nice to have
    7.) dmg converter to all dmg types
    8.) increase the ar slightly like get us a 200 ma buff like + dimach + brawl + fastattack most profs got for their weaponskills. its an old rk buff since long tahts a big joke
    9.) take out the def debuff of delirum and let it check on 80 % or something so you can use it to push your ar when you cant perk your enemy.. thats why it should be for and not only for pets-.-
    10.) last idea is the sneak attack of the spear of forbidden ceremonies... please add Sneakattack to blades of boltar they are build out of a rapier with sneakattack

    if those would happen it really would be more easy to do stuff.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Rockleee View Post
    well to be honest... my ma works great in duelling there are a few points which i would love to get.
    1.) Recharge of evasive stance should be at least the same as mr to counter it.
    Think about how anyone without MR would possibly deal with an MA if they had evasive stance on the same recharge as MR. MA would be the new Adventurer.

  20. #20
    No cause we dont habe cocoon nor do we habe high heals with lower recharge nor do we have insta heal. But that def perk would add us so much def taht we can eun on iff setup... Evasive stance atm on off setup is like... Does it really worth to use it nie? Am i die then 10 min recharge ohm... Its stuipid

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