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Thread: EU Consumers, VAT changes, and FC billing

  1. #41
    You got it wrong like most people. We're not irritated by VAT or exchange rates. We are irritated, because Funcom uses a WRONG exchange rate. Funcom bills 1:1 (€:$) when in reality it is not. Here is why I personally don't pay for this game anymore.

    Of course you're right that the game in general is overpriced, but it is even more overpriced for Europeans.
    Don't set yourself on fire to keep others warm.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Baby View Post

    Of course you're right that the game in general is overpriced, but it is even more overpriced for Europeans.
    That Why most of people will not renew ......
    No Engine ..... No content ..... YES "a bit" overprice

  3. #43
    Winter makes me want to play AO but after opening up two accounts and finding little to do I wish I had the sub money back. Outdated, under populated and overpriced is a bad trifecta.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Baby View Post
    You got it wrong like most people. We're not irritated by VAT or exchange rates. We are irritated, because Funcom uses a WRONG exchange rate. Funcom bills 1:1 (€:$) when in reality it is not. Here is why I personally don't pay for this game anymore.

    Of course you're right that the game in general is overpriced, but it is even more overpriced for Europeans.
    I have said or interpreted nothing wrong. It is quite obvious that EXCHANGE rates are exactly what you have a problem with - reread your own response. Comparing a US dollar to a Euro is using exchange rates, otherwise lets just use Monopoly money.

    You are irritated by a cost model that - when you use international monetary exchange rates - you see yourself as paying more for the same product as someone in a different country. Let me ask this question - if the exchange rates were different (reversed), would you be upset? I bet I know the answer.

    I am baffled why you even care what someone else pays for something - if you feel it is too expensive for you, then don't pay for it. It really is as simple as that as there a countless examples of the same item/service costing different for different people (even in the same country).
    Utopia
    The continued search for an ideal community possessing a perfect socio-politico-legal system.

    “ The first thing a child should learn is how to endure. It is what he will have most need to know. ” — Jean-Jacques Rousseau

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Utopian View Post
    I have said or interpreted nothing wrong. It is quite obvious that EXCHANGE rates are exactly what you have a problem with - reread your own response. Comparing a US dollar to a Euro is using exchange rates, otherwise lets just use Monopoly money.

    You are irritated by a cost model that - when you use international monetary exchange rates - you see yourself as paying more for the same product as someone in a different country. Let me ask this question - if the exchange rates were different (reversed), would you be upset? I bet I know the answer.

    I am baffled why you even care what someone else pays for something - if you feel it is too expensive for you, then don't pay for it. It really is as simple as that as there a countless examples of the same item/service costing different for different people (even in the same country).
    Dude...

    http://www.xe.com/currencyconverter/...rom=EUR&To=USD

    Funcom thinks 1 Euro = 1 USD
    Everyone else in the world thinks 1 Euro = 1.18 USD

    And you say they're using Exchange Rates?

    If I were you I would refrain from posting more. You know... so you won't make a fool of yourself.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Utopian View Post
    I have said or interpreted nothing wrong. It is quite obvious that EXCHANGE rates are exactly what you have a problem with - reread your own response. Comparing a US dollar to a Euro is using exchange rates, otherwise lets just use Monopoly money.

    You are irritated by a cost model that - when you use international monetary exchange rates - you see yourself as paying more for the same product as someone in a different country. Let me ask this question - if the exchange rates were different (reversed), would you be upset? I bet I know the answer.

    I am baffled why you even care what someone else pays for something - if you feel it is too expensive for you, then don't pay for it. It really is as simple as that as there a countless examples of the same item/service costing different for different people (even in the same country).
    The problem lies in the fact that the cost disparity is huge when compared to other MMOs, it makes no financial sense. When you look at every other MMO on the market the price disparity between $ > € > £ is in the smallest amounts (a few pence/cents), where in AO the disparity is in the £s/$s/€s. It doesn't add up. Why is there such a huge chasm in terms of price for this MMO which receives next to no in-house support from FunCom itself, when bigger, much more demanding MMOs with bigger teams and more costly server structures don't have such a huge rift in subscription cost?

    There needs to be a reason.
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  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Raggy View Post
    There needs to be a reason.
    1. Failed in game store that has not taken over all required revenue and/or did not raise the revenue enough for the bean counters.
    2. It is called milking the customers.
    3. Lowering prices is potty mouth speak for bean counters.

    Overall I think AO would have gone to F2P if, and it is a big if, the in game store had demonstrated it could make the required revenue to support the move. However it did not and that is also FC's problem. Prices are WAY too high and prevents people from using the few great items in the store. Further their understanding of what makes an item store great is a big fail as well.

    One example: FC lost a huge chance to make large amounts of revenue. Many people had openly posted that paid for character boost that took you from level 1 to 220 in full OFAB armor + OFAB weapon in the $100 US range would have been a huge selling item. Instead they decided to undercut the then current boost service prices by about 10-15% and call it a day. It was clear money grab and total failure to understand how the boost service market would adjust and now be undercutting the FC price point. Further the boost gave no armor and no weapon so to equip a new toon at 220 with OFAB cost a pretty penny more than just the boost. Simply put this was a good config for buffing toons and not a bad starting point for new toon to start building out endgame. But with a near $300 cost (boost + vp for ofab) to get there as it stands now the chance was lost. Far too often I see people ask about the boost items and simple be told to save the money and get in a OST/leveling team. Better yet get the OST/leveling team and buy and sell a GRACE or TOKEN pack for some starting credits.

    The only price move FC can make would be to F2P with a viable item store. But they need to realize an old truth. There can be a lower price for items in which the volume goes up so much that revenue can exceed the starting price point.

    Anyway you asked for a reason why we the players are getting screwed with FC's pricing model. I think I gave three very good reason.
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  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Utopian View Post
    I have said or interpreted nothing wrong. It is quite obvious that EXCHANGE rates are exactly what you have a problem with - reread your own response. Comparing a US dollar to a Euro is using exchange rates, otherwise lets just use Monopoly money.

    You are irritated by a cost model that - when you use international monetary exchange rates - you see yourself as paying more for the same product as someone in a different country. Let me ask this question - if the exchange rates were different (reversed), would you be upset? I bet I know the answer.

    I am baffled why you even care what someone else pays for something - if you feel it is too expensive for you, then don't pay for it. It really is as simple as that as there a countless examples of the same item/service costing different for different people (even in the same country).
    What is it with people..

    As I have said previously, and Gatess pointed out again, Funcom believes $14,95 is 14,95€ when exchange rate actually says it is 12,45€. You get it now?

    If I was upset? With all due respect, that's pretty ridiculous to ask. Of course I wouldn't be upset that I pay less than others. But that doesn't mean that I wouldn't be able to understand that other people are upset and demand for things to be fixed. If it means that the USD price gets raised (let's pretend I was from the US), so be it. If I continued to play would be a different story. If it means that the EUR price gets lowered, even better. Win win situation for all players. No one pays more, population will most likely increase. Only Funcom might lose something, even though that's still debateable.

    And no, I don't care what someone else pays for something. I only care when we buy the same thing, but I have to pay more, just because I'm from a different country.
    Last edited by Baby; Jan 12th, 2015 at 17:53:41.
    Don't set yourself on fire to keep others warm.

  9. #49
    And fixing this same way like price model for Age of Conan or The Secret world could help. Simply EUR price will include VAT.
    -o--oOo--o--
    Yama*007
    -o--oOo--o--

  10. #50
    Currencies is when math becomes Magic, this is why many people cant see the issue
    . . . everything in creation is impermanenT

  11. #51
    K
    Quote Originally Posted by Gatess View Post
    Dude...

    http://www.xe.com/currencyconverter/...rom=EUR&To=USD

    Funcom thinks 1 Euro = 1 USD
    Everyone else in the world thinks 1 Euro = 1.18 USD

    And you say they're using Exchange Rates?

    If I were you I would refrain from posting more. You know... so you won't make a fool of yourself.
    I never said they are or if they should - please point that out. Your blindness and anger are getting the better of you.

    Your own comparison is exchange rates which the post I was responding said wasn't the issue. You should learn to read and understand English before posting
    Utopia
    The continued search for an ideal community possessing a perfect socio-politico-legal system.

    “ The first thing a child should learn is how to endure. It is what he will have most need to know. ” — Jean-Jacques Rousseau

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Raggy View Post
    The problem lies in the fact that the cost disparity is huge when compared to other MMOs, it makes no financial sense. When you look at every other MMO on the market the price disparity between $ > € > £ is in the smallest amounts (a few pence/cents), where in AO the disparity is in the £s/$s/€s. It doesn't add up. Why is there such a huge chasm in terms of price for this MMO which receives next to no in-house support from FunCom itself, when bigger, much more demanding MMOs with bigger teams and more costly server structures don't have such a huge rift in subscription cost?

    There needs to be a reason.
    And I don't disagree that it different by a wider margin than others.

    But then where are the home countries to many of those other games?
    Utopia
    The continued search for an ideal community possessing a perfect socio-politico-legal system.

    “ The first thing a child should learn is how to endure. It is what he will have most need to know. ” — Jean-Jacques Rousseau

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Baby View Post
    What is it with people..

    As I have said previously, and Gatess pointed out again, Funcom believes $14,95 is 14,95€ when exchange rate actually says it is 12,45€. You get it now?

    If I was upset? With all due respect, that's pretty ridiculous to ask. Of course I wouldn't be upset that I pay less than others. But that doesn't mean that I wouldn't be able to understand that other people are upset and demand for things to be fixed. If it means that the USD price gets raised (let's pretend I was from the US), so be it. If I continued to play would be a different story. If it means that the EUR price gets lowered, even better. Win win situation for all players. No one pays more, population will most likely increase. Only Funcom might lose something, even though that's still debateable.

    And no, I don't care what someone else pays for something. I only care when we buy the same thing, but I have to pay more, just because I'm from a different country.
    So it is the exchange rates that you think should match world financial rates.

    But since you don't care if I pay more, why should I care if you pay more? That was my point about the price in general being too high. And I understand the frustration, but also know that things are different costs all the time. That's why worrying about what it costs in other countries is pointless. Hell, in the US prices change within States all the time so it something I don't get too worked up about
    Utopia
    The continued search for an ideal community possessing a perfect socio-politico-legal system.

    “ The first thing a child should learn is how to endure. It is what he will have most need to know. ” — Jean-Jacques Rousseau

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Utopian View Post
    So it is the exchange rates that you think should match world financial rates.

    But since you don't care if I pay more, why should I care if you pay more? That was my point about the price in general being too high. And I understand the frustration, but also know that things are different costs all the time. That's why worrying about what it costs in other countries is pointless. Hell, in the US prices change within States all the time so it something I don't get too worked up about

    It simply comes down to this: AO is the most expensive MMO on the market in Europe for no good reason. It is more expensive per month than AoC and TSW despite them both being newer AND by the same company.
    Pricecuts - 220 Trader
    Feel free to contact me via PM or in-game.

    Raggy - 220 Bureaucrat || Raggeh - 220 Fixer | Back as 'Raggys' - Shade for the time being. | Nuclei - 217 Nanotechnician || Nanobiology - 214 Doctor

    Tip #743: As noted in Tip #244, tea bags have an infinite variety of uses. However, there's always one jerk who will want to give you crap over drinking tea. Particularly if in a new town, use this as an opportunity to assert yourself. Any drunken idiot can win a bar fight. It takes a real man to win a bar fight while enjoying a cup of Earl Grey.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Utopian View Post
    K

    I never said they are or if they should - please point that out. Your blindness and anger are getting the better of you.

    Your own comparison is exchange rates which the post I was responding said wasn't the issue. You should learn to read and understand English before posting
    My own comparison *isn't* exchange rates.
    My own comparison is *about* exchange rates, or it regards to them. Maybe if you would write proper English I wouldn't have such a hard time understanding.

    Sorry if I didn't get your confusing line of thought, but I think I lost it somewhere, along with the reason for you posting about a subject that doesn't affect and/or concerns you.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Utopian View Post
    So it is the exchange rates that you think should match world financial rates.

    But since you don't care if I pay more, why should I care if you pay more? That was my point about the price in general being too high. And I understand the frustration, but also know that things are different costs all the time. That's why worrying about what it costs in other countries is pointless. Hell, in the US prices change within States all the time so it something I don't get too worked up about
    What are you even talking about? World financial rate?
    Exchange rate gets determined by the global exchange market. Global. It applies to everyone. There is no such thing as a "Funcom exchange rate". It is purely arbitrary of Funcom to bill us 2,50€ more than we are supposed to pay.

    I never said I don't care. Seriously learn to read. Caring and being upset is different. I clearly pointed out that I would totally understand, if people got upset about an injustice like that, and wouldn't make a fuss about the US price getting raised (if I was from the US). Actually, I don't see why I wouldn't side with Europeans here, because an adjustment of the European price isn't going to do anything to an US player. Except for happy players that are not going to cancel their subs.

    The US system is not a good example, since not even you guys understand it. Thing is, we're talking about a base price here for a telecommunication service. Store prices or online shopping for some actual stuff you can touch later, is a different thing, because duty/tax etc always gets on top, so of course the price is different.
    Don't set yourself on fire to keep others warm.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Gatess View Post
    My own comparison *isn't* exchange rates.
    My own comparison is *about* exchange rates, or it regards to them. Maybe if you would write proper English I wouldn't have such a hard time understanding.

    Sorry if I didn't get your confusing line of thought, but I think I lost it somewhere, along with the reason for you posting about a subject that doesn't affect and/or concerns you.
    Could you parse it any more? And the subject does concern me - because the game is too damn expensive for its age and lack of development and a "solution" that gets tossed around is to raise the USD cost if they won't lower EU cost.
    Utopia
    The continued search for an ideal community possessing a perfect socio-politico-legal system.

    “ The first thing a child should learn is how to endure. It is what he will have most need to know. ” — Jean-Jacques Rousseau

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Raggy View Post
    It simply comes down to this: AO is the most expensive MMO on the market in Europe for no good reason. It is more expensive per month than AoC and TSW despite them both being newer AND by the same company.
    Agreed
    Utopia
    The continued search for an ideal community possessing a perfect socio-politico-legal system.

    “ The first thing a child should learn is how to endure. It is what he will have most need to know. ” — Jean-Jacques Rousseau

  19. #59
    Is everyone in this thread emailing Fun Com on every FC email they can find?

    Using the live chat?

    Dew eet nao.

    ~~//~~

    They don't read forums, they read spread sheets, get on them.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Raggy View Post
    It simply comes down to this: AO is the most expensive MMO on the market in Europe for no good reason. It is more expensive per month than AoC and TSW despite them both being newer AND by the same company.
    Exactly.

    A list of my, currently installed, options (30 days of game time):

    00.00 EUR - The Secret World (Grandmaster)
    11.53 EUR - Elder Scrolls Online
    12.48 EUR - Star Wars The Old Republic
    16.24 EUR - Age of Conan
    18.69 EUR - Anarchy Online

    I would love to continue my support for Anarchy Online, but 18.69 EUR is ridiculous in comparison.
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    Plus many more...
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