EU Consumers, VAT changes, and FC billing

[Raggy]

3. Why was there no announcement that prices get raised?

Fairly certain that an increase of subscription price cannot be done without letting subscribers know, laws and whatnot.

[Louderer789]

Seems more like DOUBLE VAT to me. Once US VAT plus the VAT for player's country on top.

US does not have a VAT as such. Sales tax is only collected here for online purchases if both you and the product are from the same state. For instance if I buy games on Steam and live anywhere outside the state of Washington (Valve HQ), I pay no tax. Or If I buy stuff from Amazon and they don't have a warehouse in my state, I pay no tax. Technically you are supposed to fill out an extra form on your taxes for such things, but you can guess how many do that.

[Baby]

Fairly certain that an increase of subscription price cannot be done without letting subscribers know, laws and whatnot.

I would totally agree with you, but the thing is, people say they suddenly pay more (that does not affect me, because prices for Germans remain the same) and I did not see an Email or any other notifications on this subject.

Edit: My bad, I misread the OP (or rather the link), scratch that.
Edit2: Or did I not? I'm actually really confused right now. Can we just forget I wrote anything ever.
Edit3 (:P): Got it now, and I was right. With the changes to EU VAT Funcom was in the responsibility to make an announcement on this, since this meant a price increase for most Europeans, since Norway has one of the highest EU VATs (25%). And after checking my previous payments before I started using GRACE (forgot I can look that up) also for us Germans there is an increase of 1,30€.

[Wakizaka]

There's a petiton going that you can get to from that page, which is a general petition about the EU VAT law you can pop your name on, if it helps.

[Honorbound]

3. Why was there no announcement that prices get raised?

The price was not raised, the tax was. It's you who pays the tax, only to make it simpler to the customer (so that you don't have to do your own bookkeeping even as a private entity, keep track of how much VAT and other taxes you are to pay after your various purchases of pretty much everything), the businesses collect it and transfer it to wherever it needs to go instead of you.

Already paid subscription time is not affected by it, and new subscriptions already show the price + new tax, so you are being informed implicitly. Recurring subscriptions can be a murky area, but this being a tax raise, not a price raise, it can be argued that it is your responsibility to get informed about tax changes that apply to you.

[Raggy]

The price was not raised, the tax was. It's you who pays the tax, only to make it simpler to the customer (so that you don't have to do your own bookkeeping even as a private entity, keep track of how much VAT and other taxes you are to pay after your various purchases of pretty much everything), the businesses collect it and transfer it to wherever it needs to go instead of you.

Already paid subscription time is not affected by it, and new subscriptions already show the price + new tax, so you are being informed implicitly. Recurring subscriptions can be a murky area, but this being a tax raise, not a price raise, it can be argued that it is your responsibility to get informed about tax changes that apply to you.

If this was anything to do with taxes, the subscription on all other mainstream MMOs would have gone up too, they have not, except WoW in the UK, which is totally unrelated to the new EU law.

[Baby]

The price was not raised, the tax was. It's you who pays the tax, only to make it simpler to the customer (so that you don't have to do your own bookkeeping even as a private entity, keep track of how much VAT and other taxes you are to pay after your various purchases of pretty much everything), the businesses collect it and transfer it to wherever it needs to go instead of you.

Already paid subscription time is not affected by it, and new subscriptions already show the price + new tax, so you are being informed implicitly. Recurring subscriptions can be a murky area, but this being a tax raise, not a price raise, it can be argued that it is your responsibility to get informed about tax changes that apply to you.

I know how VAT works and I thought I made that clear in my statement.

And no I disagree here, it's in the company's responsibility. And frankly, writing a 2 sentence Email can't be that hard, they managed to do that for the new subscription offers as well. I don't want to argue about the legally binding responsibility, pretty sure Funcom is on the safe side here. But it shows yet again how much Funcom cares about their subscribers and that was literally all I wanted to point out with "Why was there no announcement?". I used the wrong word, that's true, should have used increased.

[Phargus]

Pretty weird that the Norwegian price is still €14.95 when we have 25% VAT. Looks like a screwup in the billing system to me. The question is: is the EU price to high or the Norwegian price to low?

[Wakizaka]

If this was anything to do with taxes, the subscription on all other mainstream MMOs would have gone up too, they have not, except WoW in the UK, which is totally unrelated to the new EU law.

How many other MMOs aren't banked in the US though ?
If they're not housed inside the EU, the changes make zero difference.

[Raggy]

With the changes coming in 2015 for VAT to be charged at the rate of the Consumer's Country and not the Company's Country, is FC going to comply from January 1st and charge accordingly ?

How many other MMOs aren't banked in the US though ?
If they're not housed inside the EU, the changes make zero difference.

Now I'm confused.

[Wakizaka]

Now I'm confused.

If the company is a US based company, the VAT changes don't make a difference.
If the company is based inside the EU, then it had to change from billing VAT at the rate of the country within it pays taxes, to the VAT rate of the consumer *within* the confines of the EU.

[Raggy]

If the company is a US based company, the VAT changes don't make a difference.
If the company is based inside the EU, then it had to change from billing VAT at the rate of the country within it pays taxes, to the VAT rate of the consumer *within* the confines of the EU.

Ahhh, I see now. In that case, none that immediately spring to mind.

[Baby]

Pretty weird that the Norwegian price is still €14.95 when we have 25% VAT. Looks like a screwup in the billing system to me. The question is: is the EU price to high or the Norwegian price to low?

I'm very confused now. You're from Norway? If so, nothing changes for you, you always paid 25% and will keep doing so, because Funcom HQ is in Norway.
But.. you used to pay 14.95€ for AO so far? Including VAT or plus VAT?

[Louderer789]

I'm very confused now. You're from Norway? If so, nothing changes for you, you always paid 25% and will keep doing so, because Funcom HQ is in Norway.

Funcom is incorporated in Luxembourg in order to collect the lowest EU tax rate. Now this guy will pay 25% instead of 15%.

[Baby]

Funcom is incorporated in Luxembourg in order to collect the lowest EU tax rate. Now this guy will pay 25% instead of 15%.

Thanks for the info.
But apparently he's not paying 10% more now.

Edit: As a matter of fact, he never paid VAT in that case as it looks, if it had been 15% so far for everyone from Europe. 14.95€ is the base price and VAT gets added on top. Unless Norway had a lower base price. One way or another: not fair for the rest of Europe.

[Phargus]

Just had a look at my payment history. Price has been the same (€14.95 for single months) for the last 10 years

I thought lots of games did it this way with the euro and usd prices being the same amount, but the euro price includes VAT? Guess FC is "special".

[Soliguy]

Was just looking at price what i paid and noticed that once we swithced to € price was same for both for few months then it got raised (assume this is to compensate VAT) but after that it was raised once again and its been same till now.

While 1.05€ isnt much more it is enoguh for me to say no ty and cancel.

Hope FC gets on and atleast make it same or lower it. On other hand might give me chance to clear my Steam librariy of games that i just bought and never played.

[zoneik]

All I know was my month to month bill was £17.(something) + £1.50p for currency exchange from £-Euro, but since FC still haven't fixed the DX problems which led to me been unable to play thus un-subed since about March 2013, I was however considering returning "IF" they fixed the DX problem but looking at whats going on with the prices I have to admit that Anarchy Online is no longer worth paying for.

Dead playerbase
Over priced
Old engine - Graphics ( I still don't believe the new engine release will happen till I see it )
Bad in-game economy- Everything been way to expensive
Way to many credit sellers / LR sellers
FC thinking they can sustain the game with mini transactions

FC seriously need to think about lowering the price of AO to sub to and bring out the Engine asap or this change in EU VAT might have just pulled the last of Fc's life support options

[Utopian]

Can I just ask a simple question - seriously.

For the EU folks - are you more irritated that you pay more (based on the monetary system used and exchange rates, VAT, etc) than a US player? Many seem to blame those that live is regions where the game (using current exchange rates) is less and several have said they would be content if the US price was raised (you realize that is the only way equalization would occur). And, btw - many of us in other areas of the world pay a transaction fee due to an overseas transaction. That actually peeves me because if I could pay all of my accounts with one payment (not separate by each account), the fee would be 1/6th of what I pay - just saying since it has nothing to do with the exchange rates but does affect how much I pay for the game.

The real issue should be why is a 10+ year old game, with such outdated graphics, no new content for way too long, minimal updates, etc one of highest costing games on the market - regardless of where you happen to live?

[wolve2003]

Because it is a cashcow and we are junkies.
Its one of the most powerful games since decades
cause we will return every here and when and pay the
next period.

And I know since years that I will stay till the end cause I would
return ASAP...