Engy Damage?

[-Ruken-]

How is engy damage output these days? Thinking of dusting mine off. It's been a LONG time since I've played him.

[Merit]

PVM, pure DD/suicide set up, OD's shades*.




*Less ofc they are also in same set up^^

[Dogtrauma]

AI doggie is adorable btw, you'll see it hitting for 6k normals and 7k+ crits on aliums and low AC mobs pretty often when fully buffed. I tend to mumble "good doggie" a lot while playing my engi.

[Uaintseenme]

suicide set up

Calling it a suicide set up is a little harsh....

I just need a constantly mongo'ing enfie and 3 docs in my team that all.

[liquidzoo]

I was wondering this myself. It's been a couple of years since I played, but I am contemplating rolling up an Eng. PvM/Solo mostly, at least to start. Been way too long since I've played, so I'd need to get back into things.

[MajorOutage]

Not much has changed. Just like the rest of AO. Engi r DD+++

[whatever]

Can someboy explain to me or link me a DD setup? Never seen the suicid-al setup people keep talking about . Is it the dshark combo?

And quick question what are the buffs and trimers necesary for pets in pvm so they can do more damege?

[geturmoney]

basically its amep + idbep + slapping on all the add dmg gear there is. thats your setup.
but i highly doubt its coming close to a dd shade. on rk and aliens definitely. but in sl no way.

[Merit]

Can someboy explain to me or link me a DD setup? Never seen the suicid-al setup people keep talking about . Is it the dshark combo?

And quick question what are the buffs and trimers necesary for pets in pvm so they can do more damege?

Berserker implant is usually the change when saying 'suicide setup'

basically its amep + idbep + slapping on all the add dmg gear there is. thats your setup.
but i highly doubt its coming close to a dd shade. on rk and aliens definitely. but in sl no way.

Depends on the shade.

~~~//~~~

There are a few around who give me a run for my money, still OD 90% of them.

vs. aliums = cake no contest, too many big crits from pets/pistols (also tab, pet attack is easier than maintaining perk chains when aliums die so fast^^)

LoX = 90%, depends on player and raw DD vs. evade set up on shade. (ofc shade can tank lox too, my engi will die if looked at too hard!)

Pande = Again 90%, aside from at beast herself where chains shine (and pets can be fickle...)

[revenant342]

I still need my alien dog and the DD on my character himself is not fully set-up (AMEP/IDBEP, but no Alphas for AR or much +DMG), but I still place very high in most circumstances. Again, tradeoff is that I die in a stiff breeze.

[Uaintseenme]

Can someboy explain to me or link me a DD setup? Never seen the suicid-al setup people keep talking about . Is it the dshark combo?

Actualy my ugly trox Dshark engie is one of my more durable engineers and the one i use most offten for solo'ing stuff or tanking inf mish's for org lowbies.

The *true* suicide high DD set up, is going MA-Engie.
I have no HP gear, No cocoon perks, No healing of any kind, every possible +crit item and +dmg item i can get my hands on and My DD-whoring wipes the floor with everyone.

just for an example, I had it dual logged for some lotv farming with org and forgot to put it in team, it won loot over an MA, enfie, doc, crat... and i think there was someone else in the team too, all while i was tabbing back and forth to play the enfie.

Sounds great when I put it like that, but as a solo toon, its completely unplayable, quite litteraly cant even finish a daily mish with it because it got the life expectancy of a mayfly with a degenerative dissease.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

just for an example, I had it dual logged for some lotv farming with org and forgot to put it in team, it won loot over an MA, enfie, doc, crat... and i think there was someone else in the team too, all while i was tabbing back and forth to play the enfie.

LOL!

That's awesome.

*takes off hat*

*bows*

*gets you a beer*

[MajorOutage]

basically its amep + idbep + slapping on all the add dmg gear there is. thats your setup.

idbep? pfffft

I've always gotten a kick out of how people underestimate such a simple setup. DD out the ass, pretty good survival, and still got all my useful tradeskills.

[Wakizaka]

Does anyone have some hard numbers on +Dmg vs. +Crit ?
ie. 1 crit ~ 12 dmg or something similar, with an AMEP/iDEP or AMEP/Peregrine setup ?
Currently my Engi is just stacking as much +Proj Dmg as possible, which works fine, but I'd like to know if anyone knows where the line in the sand is regarding their damage.

[Dogtrauma]

Does anyone have some hard numbers on +Dmg vs. +Crit ?
ie. 1 crit ~ 12 dmg or something similar, with an AMEP/iDEP or AMEP/Peregrine setup ?
Currently my Engi is just stacking as much +Proj Dmg as possible, which works fine, but I'd like to know if anyone knows where the line in the sand is regarding their damage.

It has been a while now since i calc'ed it but i seem to remember it being roughly 1crit= 18 +damage with iDEP being a bit better crit damage. That's just weapon damage ofc, since crit has no effect on perks that somewhat warps the crit->DPM conversion. That's with dual engi pistols, with peregrine you would dilute the value of +crit.

The changes to trader drains will make crit weapons look a lot sexier in PvM, anything that can be affected by the AAD/crit reduction drain will be funtime for engi pets and high crit weapons, damage *will* soar

Edit: We've not seen any of the FA pistol users reporting in, is this a good alternative? I could see it being very good for zerg raids were time-on-mob is low just as i imagine D-shark is.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

Assuming: 36 normal hits/minute, 6s fling, 8s burst
Assuming: AMEP+Peregrine MK6 - I was thinking a Peh'wer is better, but I think the Peregrine is a better choice since some people might find the reqs for peh'wer daunting given the setup might be crit oriented (as opposed to CC which might make Peh'wer go OE)

I count 36 normal hits/minute affected by crit
I count 10 fling shots affected by crit
(burst isn't affected)

Now, when counting the crit affected actions, because we got two different weapons, we need to assess each weapon independently:

AMEP: 275-450 (400) AR cap = 2750
Peregrine Mk 6: 248-358 (248) AR cap = 2600

Assessing max min dmg on a weapon we use this formula:
[[(AR-1000)*Class AR Multiplier]/400+3.5] with most profs having a skill multiplier of approximately 0.3
Assuming engi meets max beneficial AR on both weaps the min damage multiplier for AMEP is:
[[(2750-1000)*0.3]/400+3.5]= 4.8125
and for peregrine:
[[(2600-1000)*0.3]/400+3.5]= 4.7

min damage on AMEP: 4.8125*275 = 1323
min dmg on PER: 4.7*248=1166

crit dmg on AMEP vs high AC's = 4.8125*(275+400)= 3248
crit dmg on PER vs high AC's = 4.7*(248+248) = 2331

Now, we need to assess the increase of damage per unit time per unit increase in crit:
*note: Dogtrauma you're right, I am just making an extra step for myself here, I could have just calced the actual crit modifier.

Crit will affect:

18 AMEP normal hits
18 PER normal hits
10 fling shots on PER
0 burst, 0 perks/procs

The difference 1% crit makes on damage/minute is, assuming base damage of 0% crit:
100%*[18*1323+28*1166] = 56462

is:
99%*(18*1323+28*1166]+1%*[18*3248+28*2331]=57135

Therefore, 1% crit = (57135-56462) = 673dmg gained/minute

EDIT!!!!!

http://auno.org/ao/perk.php?saveid=89896

I used this as a baseline for perks.

Ok now afaik burst doesn't proc AAO procs, only regular hits and fling do; and poison sprinkle and taint wounds don't actually count add dmg for the first hit in the dot.

Give that, when you multiply each perk frequency by 60s and divide by the recharge time, and multiply the chance for proc's by the number of hits per minute, you get 13.45 hits per minute (continuous fighting).

Now I'll add all regulars/specials to find the total number of actions/bullets/everything affected by 1 point of add dmg:

13.45 (perks/procs)
36 normal
10 fling
60s*3 bullets/burst *1burst/8s = 22.5 (burst)
for a total of: 81.95 (round up to 82).

So, any single point of add dmg affects a total of 82 contacts per minute.

Now, the question is, how many points of add dmg does it take to make up the difference that 1% crit makes?

1% crit produces 673dmg per minute.

since 1 point of add dmg produces 82 dmg per minute then 673dmg/min/1crit /82dmg/min = 8.2 dmg

Therefore, 1% crit is approximately equal to 8.2 add dmg.

[Dogtrauma]

My brain is not quite letting me follow your maths today ( not a critique of your maths) but i would like to know why you specify "on high AC mobs." why would AC be relevant to crit bonus since it is a fixed amount not affected by AC?

Of minor importance: AFAIK Fling shot and fast attack are both able to proc stuff. (somewhat lacking in citation but i think this is correct). Imma try it with my shade in a while, will edit.

Edit: Yup fast attack procs stuff, gonna assume that fling does as well since they are pretty much "mirrors" of each other.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

I had started a much larger calc including all perks/procs, but then I got lost in what I was calcing because it's kinda complicated.

I'll look into this later but I had to run because of soccer.

[Dogtrauma]

Don't worry, Soccer gives me the runs too

[McKnuckleSamwich]

ok I finished calc.