Martial Artists have been given enough already! Enough is Enough!

[__________THEDEACON!]

Originally posted by Shatai


Transform into a leet and roll around looking cute?

Sorry, couldn't resist.....

LOL!!!!!!

Who can attack them when they look that cute???

Oh yeah, thank you Cz. While I dont want to look a gift horse in the mouth, leave us MAs alone. No boosts, new items or nerfs. Even our broken attacks can wait imho. There's some serious problems with engineers that needs to be addressed before any class. With ffok being self only and crit scopes being ranged only, it make slayer transferrence, the high lvl engi's only good nano, quite worthless. They are in a busted spot right now. Even high level MPs have it better than engis atm

Most MAs are pretty happy. Both of my MAs are quite happy. Yet every last engineer on the planet is miserable and that tells us something right there :/

In fact, the engi ranks have thinned out more than I care to think about. We used to want them in teams back when we all hunted outside. Having an engi was a big boon to a team's desirability. But nw, with so many other classes having neat stuff, engis get left in the cold.

[Warlock]

Originally posted by TheDeacon
There's some serious problems with engineers that needs to be addressed before any class. With ffok being self only and crit scopes being ranged only, it make slayer transferrence, the high lvl engi's only good nano, quite worthless. They are in a busted spot right now. Even high level MPs have it better than engis atm

Most MAs are pretty happy. Both of my MAs are quite happy. Yet every last engineer on the planet is miserable and that tells us something right there :/

In fact, the engi ranks have thinned out more than I care to think about. We used to want them in teams back when we all hunted outside. Having an engi was a big boon to a team's desirability. But nw, with so many other classes having neat stuff, engis get left in the cold.

What he said, thanks Big D

[eaze]

Originally posted by Phoenixbird

in my ears thats nerf MAs so they dont get anything

shall i start talking about all the other breeds who has got anything good? DONT MAKE ME

FIrst of all, you keep talking about breeds instead of professions, which makes me believe you dont really know a whole lot about this game.

Secondly, the MAs are overpowered in PvP now, totally, due to uncapped heals and the insane crit amount they are able to achieve. Might be somewhat balanced with LLTS nerf.

Thirdly, the MA is now the highest damage dealing profession in the game. And people, let's get real. We're talking about 30'000 years AD, and the most powerful way to go to war is with fists, a bow or a some kind of melee thing to put on your hand, while the majority of heavy weaponry on the planet doesnt even come close to dealing the same amounts? Get a grip....

[____________Anikitos]

When i first started this game...first weak of its release......

Wrong, sit down first and i will describe you the meaning of the word...gimp.

I started an MP....Nanomage.
MP had ONE pet, that sucked.
My "weapon" of choice back in those days was....ma dmg.

Now picture this....
A Nanomage MP using ma back in those days.....

Needless to say i got pissed off.
So i started an MA after a while.(pre-love patch.)

What can i say, he was better then my MP...but i discovered just how gimped he was killing borgs in mort.

The min dmg in those days was awfull, rest of my team was hitting for a billion more in dmg.

Most of the times i was not even hitting....only doing team heals.

The absolute low point in my MA life was when i got into a team...and some guy said:
WTF, what are we supposed to do with this combatnurse?
He cant hit, and his heals suck.

I roled an atrox enf(beam) next day.

What i am saying is, that i felt like a nurse back in those days...worthless. I was the critbuffing whore...and gimped team heal spammer.


Ofcource MA has changed.
What i think would be the logical step to balance the MA.
First of all.....UVC increase crits for only specific ma weapons and NOT for Flash, nova, river, ithaca...and so on.

An ma should not be better with a river then a sol. Or a flash. Or a shotgun.

Thats what they need to do with the MA selfbuffed crit line...make it ma weapons only.

To all of you MA out there, dont you find this fair?
Should you be able to outdmg a sol with the same weapon?
Honestly, i think not.


P.S
Fix engis ffs...i hardly see engis anymore...

[Nival]

Originally posted by eaze


FIrst of all, you keep talking about breeds instead of professions, which makes me believe you dont really know a whole lot about this game.

Secondly, the MAs are overpowered in PvP now, totally, due to uncapped heals and the insane crit amount they are able to achieve. Might be somewhat balanced with LLTS nerf.

Thirdly, the MA is now the highest damage dealing profession in the game. And people, let's get real. We're talking about 30'000 years AD, and the most powerful way to go to war is with fists, a bow or a some kind of melee thing to put on your hand, while the majority of heavy weaponry on the planet doesnt even come close to dealing the same amounts? Get a grip....

opps looks like i said something wrong there i was tierd last night i ment to say professions not breed (ups)

[Nival]

Originally posted by Anikitos
When i first started this game...first weak of its release......

Wrong, sit down first and i will describe you the meaning of the word...gimp.

I started an MP....Nanomage.
MP had ONE pet, that sucked.
My "weapon" of choice back in those days was....ma dmg.

Now picture this....
A Nanomage MP using ma back in those days.....

Needless to say i got pissed off.
So i started an MA after a while.(pre-love patch.)

What can i say, he was better then my MP...but i discovered just how gimped he was killing borgs in mort.

The min dmg in those days was awfull, rest of my team was hitting for a billion more in dmg.

Most of the times i was not even hitting....only doing team heals.

The absolute low point in my MA life was when i got into a team...and some guy said:
WTF, what are we supposed to do with this combatnurse?
He cant hit, and his heals suck.

I roled an atrox enf(beam) next day.

What i am saying is, that i felt like a nurse back in those days...worthless. I was the critbuffing whore...and gimped team heal spammer.


Ofcource MA has changed.
What i think would be the logical step to balance the MA.
First of all.....UVC increase crits for only specific ma weapons and NOT for Flash, nova, river, ithaca...and so on.

An ma should not be better with a river then a sol. Or a flash. Or a shotgun.

Thats what they need to do with the MA selfbuffed crit line...make it ma weapons only.

To all of you MA out there, dont you find this fair?
Should you be able to outdmg a sol with the same weapon?
Honestly, i think not.


P.S
Fix engis ffs...i hardly see engis anymore...

that will be fixed next patch

[____________Anikitos]

They will make the ma crit line ma weapon only?
Must have missed that...

If that is the case....why are ppl screaming nerf ma then????

An ma should crit more then anyother.
If he does that with ma only weapons....i see absolutely no reason to ***** about ma.

Now, let ma be.

[Snuble]

Your fighting windmills Lucid. Just to add a few numbers (shamelessly stolen and recompiled (probably even with mistakes) from ymera.com)

Players by profession and above lvl 150 (titlelevel of death, thank you Kupotek for the striking description )

All numbers in *ishish*
MA 480
Soldier 379
Doc 306
Trader 283
Enforcer 275
NT 245
Agent 228
MP 203
Adv 150
Fixer 139
Engie 130
Crat 102

The same site (http://ymera.com) also contains stats on actively played professions (level last week I think). List by profession and %
MA 17.2
Fixer 10.8
Doc 9.5
Sold 9.1
Enf 8.6
MP 7.7
Agent 7.4
NT 6.8
Adv 6.7
Trad 5.9
Engie 5.4
Crat 4.9

I guess I'll just go back to camp tara a bit more so I can get some adv specific items Oh I've also heard that auno.org drops some really neat adv specific items...

[__________Beautyfarm]

while lucid flow's points are sometimes..questionable, i agree to the intention of his initial post. it was directed to FUNCOM, asking them to focus on other professions already (as noticed by cz then, and hopefully done soon ). i cant see no offense, no nerf crying, or whatever towards mas in the post. the martial artist is the best overall profession atm by far, hey thats alright. but fc should work on closing the gap, better than widening it more and more. (if im not mistaken special attacks will be fixed in 14.6 btw )

to all mas: what you experience now is NOTHING against the still existing trader hate, not to mention when traders actually WERE uber.

[BGumble]

I find it odd that developers can spend time thinking about and working on MA related issues when there are two or three professions in the game hovering on extinction.

I like seeing any profession get changes but someone really should get a sense of priority at Funcom - *fix the most important things first*

I honestly dont remember the last time any of my characters teamed with an engineer - high level Crats, MPs and Traders are also rare but *every* team will have a couple of MAs and Fixers in it.

Funny that.

Engineers are pretty much totally broken at the moment, Crats become engineers with calms at high levels and suffer pretty much all the same pet issues. MPs burn out at abuot 130 with nothing to do and also have the same pet issues (pathing, speed, damage, tanking ability). Doctors, Soldiers & Traders all have serious issues.

Perhaps some of these issues should rate a little higher than MA tweaks (or at least *look* like they do).

[DaveDread]

Lucid, was it something like this you really meant?

"Now that MA's have their core abilities working (crit advantage / working evades), can we agree that other professions core abilities are more important then slight tweaks to the MA's?"
If so, then you have my huge Horraayyy! Agreed! Get moving FC!

I'll leave the core abilities of respective professions to the professions in question, but I don't think I'm too far out of line if I suggest that an Engie's bot should outdamage the engie? Or that MP's get some new nanos that you need to be lvl200 with special gear or a wrangle to execute? Better aggro management to the Soldiers? Kickass nukes to the NT's, restoring the Crats ability to charm/mez at dynacamps etc..?

IE. What are the professions supposed to be and are they being it?


Final note: I have a pretty strong gut feeling that MA's will continue to get some stuff in every new patch. If MA's are going to be restricted to MA weapons, I expect more then 3 options. If MA's are supposed to use bows as the only ranged alternative I expect a bow buff and more new bows. I expect sharp objects and bugfixed/new MA specials. I expect a fix to riposte as well as to adventuring. None of these are as urgent as, say snazzier engie bots, but I expect FC to do it this way.

[DaveDread]

Oh, regarding the MA self-only crit nanos and the Scopes, it seems FC are thinking of various ways to make them not stack, and possibly removing the option for MA's to use the self-only crit nanos for weapons using any other init then phys init.

The last suggestion (by Gaute himself) was that MA self-only crit would have a massive ranged init penalty and scopes a massive melee/phys init penalty. Not too clever since it would disable every melee user from using a scope and thus hitting them harder then the intentional target, the MA's.

[Cemetarygate]

Originally posted by Lucid Flow
1) In the last 10+ patches, Funcom implemented a whole line of Crat debuffs that effecively dont work as inteded and has never been fixed since.

14.6 promisses bug fixes. Let's hope those, among other fixes, will be addressed.

Originally posted by Lucid Flow
2) Martial Artists get small bonuses to Brawl, Martial Arts, Inits and what not, all effective skills for Martial Artists. Crat figurines add to Melee Energy.... and another uses Matter Met to use, a nano skill that NO SINGLE CRAT NANO USES.

I have approx. 980 in martial arts and brawl skills. Roughly 900 in physical init. Again, +8, 10 and 12, respectively, are not effective enough to make a difference.

As I've already stated, safe to assume each profession considers their figurine a joke?

[Zamolcrat]

I've been leveling an MA alt recently and I must say they are one of the few fun and well balanced professions. Everybody who says they are too powerfull didn't play one or wathched them carefully.

My crat could solo the bots for Alvin's quest at around level 125 while my MA would get destroyed at that time. You think MAs are better tanks than soldiers or enforcers, then make an MA and go try tanking the trainees (level 300 mobs) and even superbuffed and with 2 CH docs on you , you'll still die in less than a minute. Only soldiers and enforcers can tank those. About missions, heh in missions even my nanogimp crat can tank with just some crappy heals from an MA.

You think MAs do much more damage than others, take the damage logger than and compare it with a good enforcer (that uses challanger, rage, flurry and is not just lazy and goes tab , q ) and you'll be outdamaged. And this is before they introduce the new enforcer weapons and change the challenger to have only a 15s recharge.

You think MAs are gods in PvP, then try dueling a fixer: with 1K+ attach rating I could barely hit a lower level fixer like once in 10-20 hits which the hots were more than able to heal up (btw there are more fixers with GA 3-4 than you think). Or fight an agent: AS + 2 crits with total concentration and if you are self buffed, you're dead.

Plus some of the points that Lucid Flow made are nerfs instead of improvements. The good bows (had specials and low equip time) have been nerfed and they just introduced some other MA only bows that are not that good. Also making kali self only is hardly an improvement, indeed it makes the selfish little kids feel more powerfull but for the most other MAs it means one less buff that they can help the team with (same with UVC). And about the presence of overlord line of nanos, they are completely useless, I tried to use them on green monsters in mission and nothing happens, even the enforcers fear nanos work better.

So to put it short, we have one reasonably good class, please don't destroy it. That time would be much better used fixing pet pathing for my crat and improving engies,nts (Upcoming nerfs to bows, scopes and crit buffs).

[__________Lucid Flow]

Originally posted by DaveDread
Lucid, was it something like this you really meant?

"Now that MA's have their core abilities working (crit advantage / working evades), can we agree that other professions core abilities are more important then slight tweaks to the MA's?"
If so, then you have my huge Horraayyy! Agreed! Get moving FC!

I'll leave the core abilities of respective professions to the professions in question, but I don't think I'm too far out of line if I suggest that an Engie's bot should outdamage the engie? Or that MP's get some new nanos that you need to be lvl200 with special gear or a wrangle to execute? Better aggro management to the Soldiers? Kickass nukes to the NT's, restoring the Crats ability to charm/mez at dynacamps etc..?

IE. What are the professions supposed to be and are they being it?


Final note: I have a pretty strong gut feeling that MA's will continue to get some stuff in every new patch. If MA's are going to be restricted to MA weapons, I expect more then 3 options. If MA's are supposed to use bows as the only ranged alternative I expect a bow buff and more new bows. I expect sharp objects and bugfixed/new MA specials. I expect a fix to riposte as well as to adventuring. None of these are as urgent as, say snazzier engie bots, but I expect FC to do it this way.

Sort of, but not really. I'm not only concerned with Engineers.

[__________Lucid Flow]

Originally posted by Cemetarygate
I have approx. 980 in martial arts and brawl skills. Roughly 900 in physical init. Again, +8, 10 and 12, respectively, are not effective enough to make a difference.

As I've already stated, safe to assume each profession considers their figurine a joke?

That isn't my point. My point was directed toward FUNCOM because they can easily figure out that Martial Artists use Brawl, and MA and Physical Inits and give them items that add to those skills no matter how small.

Yet, they give Crat Specific items that add to MELEE ENERGY, something that has no use to anybody, especially a crat which is a RANGED profession with DARK BLUE melee skills. They also give us items that use MATTER MET as an equip requirment. No Crat nano uses Matter Met.

[Cemetarygate]

Originally posted by Lucid Flow
Also note Martial Arts is a Close Combat profession, that will ALWAYS be on top of the mob anyway.

Crats are a Ranged Profession, with all of our nanos geared toward keeping the mobs away from us.

Fully aware the MA class is close combat. However, our attack range is not 1m so we don't have to stand on top of the mob for our fists to be effective. We do, however, have to reposition ourself to make use of the nano.

Please take note of the next MA you team with and you'll see they do not stand on top of the mob while attacking. What is the MA attack range? 4m? 8m? (Seriously, I don't know the answer to that one). So, when the MA is attacking from 4m they will have no use of the nano whatsoever.

So, please do not state the MA has some of the best crowd control in the game.

[Treonaut]

MA fear has same range as NT area Nukes. The 1 meter is to make the nano on yourself. Then the aoe goes out exactly like any other area nano. Just like crat speech range is 1 meter but that's just to put the speech on him. then you only have to be in range like any other area nano to get the effect.

[_____________TanisAS]

I still reiterate.

More content for MA`s more more more.

We all pay our dues. We all deserve it. Believe it or not MA is well balanced at the moment llts change will throw this *I hope* into alot better balance.

We all need a constant stream of content to keep it interesting. We are balanced thats the main problem gone. Items dont do this unless they are extreme. Since we are balanced add to me I like it give me stuff im just like a small kitten... toys and balls of yarn make me happy.

But go balance everyone else *points at other classes* do it now. Once balanced add them to the stream of content...

*imagines* Its a happy world where everyone does the damage they are meant to.. some more than others but those who lack in damage have other advantages... Engineers skip through fields hand in hand with their now pathing slayers. Martial artists *less rivers* prance about with their martial arts weapons throwing throwing knives about and making arrows for their bows. Its happy no ones angry and calls for no more content on anyone else we all have all we could want and encourage additions to eachother its joyous...

Oh no theres the real world lacking balance and full of cross profession resentment.. *sigh*

[Cemetarygate]

Originally posted by Pumpkin
MA fear has same range as NT area Nukes. The 1 meter is to make the nano on yourself. Then the aoe goes out exactly like any other area nano. Just like crat speech range is 1 meter but that's just to put the speech on him. then you only have to be in range like any other area nano to get the effect.

MA fear ~does not~ have same range as NT area Nukes.

All NT AOE nukes have range of 25m, with exceptions to Tremor (10m) and Volcanic Eruption (20m).