Soju's Multiboxing Guide

[Traderjill]

You might be right about some PvPers but that shouldn't cast a cloud over the fact that it is now a PvM concern (at least it is to me). I don't wish for my concern to be dismissed simply because it happens to be a shared concern of people that aren't 100% legit players.

If a bank is robbed and half of its customers are criminals you can't just say "Hey, you guys are criminals and therefore have no right to ask for justice!" You might be right in feeling that it is somehow karma unfolding for those criminals but you can't ignore that the other 50% of the bank's customers were law abiding citizens with a legitimate right to express outrage and demand the robber be caught and justice served.

In a game where most damage wins, this multiboxing in PvM activities really needs to be addressed.

[Adva]

How about we try a little experiment. Go back to the start of this thread, replace every instance of the word multi boxing with dual logging, triple logging, whatever you fancy. After rereading it, ask yourself if you would be just as "outraged" at somebody who was manually alt tabbing through clients as somebody MBing in the exact same circumstances.

[Traderjill]

How about we try a little experiment. Go back to the start of this thread, replace every instance of the word multi boxing with dual logging, triple logging, whatever you fancy. After rereading it, ask yourself if you would be just as "outraged" at somebody who was manually alt tabbing through clients as somebody MBing in the exact same circumstances.

Heya Adva I'll bite on this one.

You're probably full on aware (guess most people are) that I have multiple accounts and I have multi-logged for quite some time. With the exception of the experiment I mentioned (when funcom first announced that multiboxing was ok), I haven't used 3rd party software to directly or indirectly control my toons.

As someone that multilog's the issue for me isn't the multiple toons as much as the automation but I suppose if someone only single logs and they get OD'd by someone multilogging (Not using 3rd party software) then their issue would be with multiple accounts as well. I can't speak from that vantage point.

I do know that I don't multilog outside of instances in any way that would negatively impact other players. In other words, when I go dyna hunting, I do it on a single toon despite the fact that I could probably guarantee a win by bringing 2 more DD profs along with my primary. The only time I multilog outdoors is not in any attempt to OD other players but as simple support. I don't run around inferno dynas, biodome mobs, rk uniques, ado dynas, etc just camping out.

The issue here isn't that I have an issue with someone's style of play as much as I have an issue with their style of play having a negative impact on mine. It is starting to feel like i'm either going to have to use 3rd party software as well or go play another game. I shouldn't have to get a 3rd party software to control my toons in order to do 'normal' stuff.. that's crazy.

Now the other factor which I didn't mention earlier is that I know for a fact that a lot of the people I've seen multiboxing are doing so with accounts that aren't originally their own. Reporting such things via petition seems to have 0 effect, btw.

[Psikie]

You might be right in feeling that it is somehow karma unfolding for those criminals but you can't ignore that the other 50% of the bank's customers were law abiding citizens

Ok you got me there I do feel the MB issue is karma at it's best, and you are right I have taken very little time to think about how the pvm crowd is impacted. BUT that is because of this very next post...

Go back to the start of this thread, replace every instance of the word multi boxing with dual logging, triple logging, whatever you fancy.

Now since I have been known to dual log and actively play, and very rarely triple or quad log for buffing, I really can say I don't enjoy it much. But if someone does I can't fault them for it. If I thought it necessary to log out 2-3 toons at a dyna spawn and log them on every 30min or so just to get the kill I suppose I could, but it would get expensive for SL. Honestly Id rather spend my money on beer for sunday football parties.

[Traderjill]

Now since I have been known to dual log and actively play, and very rarely triple or quad log for buffing, I really can say I don't enjoy it much. But if someone does I can't fault them for it. If I thought it necessary to log out 2-3 toons at a dyna spawn and log them on every 30min or so just to get the kill I suppose I could, but it would get expensive for SL. Honestly Id rather spend my money on beer for sunday football parties.

I spend a lot of time doing stuff in outdoor/non-instanced areas on my trader. In the past month, alone, I have seen more multiboxers at dynas and farming outdoor stuff than I have in the prior 10 years that I've played the game. I don't get why, tbh, because if they're multiboxing you'd think they'd get more bang for their buck by farming an instance someplace.. but nevertheless, that's what I'm seeing in game.

Anyway, I'll continue to bug Funcom employees about the issues in PMs. Maybe inferno will freeze over and they'll do something about it.. even if that means getting rid of the most DD=win and changing it to first tag.

[jefke]

I'm against multiboxing and I duallog/multilog alot manually, in fact, I do everythign manually, I dont even use keybinds etc
I dont want to mix in the full conversation but just to voice my opinion, not to attack anyone, mutliboxing should be banned, used in pvm or pvp, it doesnt matter, its just wrong, its almost the same as using an aimbot in fps, something else is doing what you shoudl be doing

[Adva]

...snip... There's nothing to risk but much to gain. And people leaving due to MBing isn't conspiracy theory but simple fact that anyone with two eyes can see. Notum wars are dead, especially at tl7. Active population is down ~25% compared to Feb-March when things really got out of control. Someone boxing by himself day in day out maybe doesn't notice, but people wanting to play with others - or against others but in a fair way - have and will continue to notice the falling numbers.

Weird, there was another issue with towers after the merge that caused a lot of people to leave and cancel their subs. Side A did something to lessen the risk of losing sites that Side B didn't agree with, so Side B made a few threads on the forums. Side A told Side B it's legal and a legit mechanic and that they should suck it up and learn to deal with it. What was that? Hmm. Tower linking? Nope that's not it. Tower sinking? Close, but that's not it either. Anyway, the name escapes me but I'm sure you can find the threads on here somewhere.

Heya Adva

Hey Jill

You're probably full on aware (guess most people are) that I have multiple accounts and I have multi-logged for quite some time. With the exception of the experiment I mentioned (when funcom first announced that multiboxing was ok), I haven't used 3rd party software to directly or indirectly control my toons.

As someone that multilog's the issue for me isn't the multiple toons as much as the automation but I suppose if someone only single logs and they get OD'd by someone multilogging (Not using 3rd party software) then their issue would be with multiple accounts as well. I can't speak from that vantage point.

I do know that I don't multilog outside of instances in any way that would negatively impact other players. In other words, when I go dyna hunting, I do it on a single toon despite the fact that I could probably guarantee a win by bringing 2 more DD profs along with my primary. The only time I multilog outdoors is not in any attempt to OD other players but as simple support. I don't run around inferno dynas, biodome mobs, rk uniques, ado dynas, etc just camping out.

The issue here isn't that I have an issue with someone's style of play as much as I have an issue with their style of play having a negative impact on mine. It is starting to feel like i'm either going to have to use 3rd party software as well or go play another game. I shouldn't have to get a 3rd party software to control my toons in order to do 'normal' stuff.. that's crazy.

I really hate to be pedantic, but multiboxing != automation. As far as I know, multiboxing is legal because a player is actively sending key inputs to their clients, therefore they are active and attended. There is no automation/botting type of behavior going on, the player is actively controlling the characters and deciding what they do. That being said, I respect your choice to kill dynas on a single toon, but that is a personal choice that you and only you made. You've been around AO a long time, as have I, so I'm sure you remember when things were more populated and people actively fought over dynas and the such. Mobs from Ely to Inferno were camped or hunted by teams who made sure they had the people to OD others there for lootrights. Being OD'd by somebody is nothing new, we've all had it happen to us and it's been a part of the game for as long as it's been around. With that in mind, I ask you this: What if a single crat came along and OD'd you on the dyna, would you have posted something about it on the forums? What if it was a single person dual logged? How about triple logged? I guess I'm just trying to find out where the line is for what's acceptable when ODing somebody on a FFA mob before it's in bad sport? At what point is somebody using legal game mechanics negatively impacting your game?

Now the other factor which I didn't mention earlier is that I know for a fact that a lot of the people I've seen multiboxing are doing so with accounts that aren't originally their own. Reporting such things via petition seems to have 0 effect, btw.

That's an issue for a whole other thread and, while personally I'm on the fence about sharing accounts, it is kind of a shame how bad some petitions and issues are handled through Customer Service. I can't count how many time I've been told "We're looking into it" or something similar over the years regarding different issues. I've given up trying for the most part, just seems like a wasted effort.

I spend a lot of time doing stuff in outdoor/non-instanced areas on my trader. In the past month, alone, I have seen more multiboxers at dynas and farming outdoor stuff than I have in the prior 10 years that I've played the game. I don't get why, tbh, because if they're multiboxing you'd think they'd get more bang for their buck by farming an instance someplace.. but nevertheless, that's what I'm seeing in game.

Anyway, I'll continue to bug Funcom employees about the issues in PMs. Maybe inferno will freeze over and they'll do something about it.. even if that means getting rid of the most DD=win and changing it to first tag.

I honestly can't see them changing something that's been around forever like that. While it may be nice in theory, I could see the same people that are being talked about just parking toons at dyna spawns and killing a couple at a time. Sure it'd be slower, but not having to worry with losing lootrights means it doesn't matter as long as you don't die.

I'm against multiboxing and I duallog/multilog alot manually, in fact, I do everythign manually, I dont even use keybinds etc
I dont want to mix in the full conversation but just to voice my opinion, not to attack anyone, mutliboxing should be banned, used in pvm or pvp, it doesnt matter, its just wrong, its almost the same as using an aimbot in fps, something else is doing what you shoudl be doing

That's cute. How'd those unattended gameplay, err, kited levels you wanted work out? I'm sure sitting on Kite Hill and killing those hecks manually must have been real tough for that undergeared doctor you had. I mean, if you're gonna talk about banning something from that high horse you're sitting on, you might want to make sure you're not standing in a grey area yourself. Just a thought.

[Traderjill]

With that in mind, I ask you this: What if a single crat came along and OD'd you on the dyna, would you have posted something about it on the forums? What if it was a single person dual logged? How about triple logged? I guess I'm just trying to find out where the line is for what's acceptable when ODing somebody on a FFA mob before it's in bad sport? At what point is somebody using legal game mechanics negatively impacting your game?

I've never complained about getting OD'd in the 10 some years I've played this game. It has happened many times. As far as I'm concerned if another player (or players) come along and OD me that is the game mechanic. If someone is willing to bring a full team of active players to kill something then I have the option of doing the same. I won't, but I have the option of doing so without compromising my gaming morals. If someone multiboxes, I don't feel as if I even have an option to compete. I'm not going to use 3rd party software to control toons that are not on my active window and I'm not going to ask orgmates and friends to come camp stuff with me just because the person I'm trying to OD (or not get OD'd by) is a multiboxer.

If you still don't understand why this is an issue for me, that's fine then we'll have to agree to disagree. It won't stop me from complaining about it and making constant noise until someone (Funcom) does something or bans me.

[Soju]

rude.

Did you ppl not have enough opportunities to post in the countless number of anti multibox treads? Why not make a new one, or ressurrect a old one?

Thanks for calling me ignorant. Feels nice.

[grandefiasco]

That's cute. How'd those unattended gameplay, err, kited levels you wanted work out? I'm sure sitting on Kite Hill and killing those hecks manually must have been real tough for that undergeared doctor you had. I mean, if you're gonna talk about banning something from that high horse you're sitting on, you might want to make sure you're not standing in a grey area yourself. Just a thought.

Oh thats cute, Play for 9 years and get 1 toon kited cause of lack of creds and get judged for that, do i have to mention I leveled over 50 other toons manually and ooldschool?
FFS and fyi, I maybe sat at kitehill but I wasnt afk and I helped out the person who provided the help
Still totally different thing than MB cause its still following game regulations, even tho it was with OST , its still using the game's mechanics
Moron, yes that was a personal attack

[Caloss2]

No not at all. But the loudest trumpets come from the pvp crowd is my point. ive read plenty of things you have posted and I do not think you have ever advocated for anything not above the board.

But the majority of complaints imo have been from the "pvp" crowd because of how these issues effect them personally. To me that is very hypocritical because they don't point out or complain about the other glaringly obvious exploits and bugs that they use to their own advantage. However something like MB that is obviously NOT to their advantage in pvp but is also LEGAL per funcom they cry to the high hills that the sky is falling.

I think that is straight up bogus.

I started a "hot thread on MB" calling for it to be banned some months ago, it was the one Macro and Genele both responded on.
http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...eads-you-close

I suppose that's your "loud trumpet" but I can tell you collectively that since 2001 I have less than 500 kills across 5 220 toons I'd hardly call my self one of the pvp crowd, I'd say I was a PVM'er that cares about the game and is vocal, and I'd put Jill in the category too.
Historically speaking MB received the most vocal complaints from the PVP crowd.


But as nothing happened those players have quit, as I said they would; I also said in that thread that this would have an effect on PVM and the game in general and it is.
So now we have PVMers complaining about the effects, being told MB is only bad for PVP and hush because PVP is only 10% of the game.
This is not the case.
MB is bad for any small population game, and shrinks the population further.
Currently AO is loosing one of the M's from MMORPG, if things continue in the same way the O will be lost as well.

[Traderjill]

rude.

Did you ppl not have enough opportunities to post in the countless number of anti multibox treads? Why not make a new one, or ressurrect a old one?

Thanks for calling me ignorant. Feels nice.

Since Macrosun has been looking in to this from a coder's point of view, I will do the same, only from a designer's point of view (Since this is my main role on the Anarchy Online project for those who didn't know.)

Everyone seem to be in agreement that multi boxing/dual logging in pvm/pve is acceptable and doesn't cause many problems. I know from personal experience that most of you play Anarchy Online with at least two accounts simultaneously.


From what I read through all the complains we have received in regards to multi boxing, the issues people present are clearly related to how pvp works in AO and especially tower wars.

1. There were tons of PvP multiboxing threads, most of which carried the same theme of "It's ok in PvM but PvP is horrible". I did indeed post in such threads and, until the past 2-3 months there were not any significant issues, that I saw, with people using multiboxing in PvM. The reality is that the few multiboxers that existed were courteous enough to keep their PvM multiboxing to instanced content and not using it against other players. This has started to hit me directly and since the problem seemed to ramp up 2-3 months ago and get progressively worse I can only imagine that this thread is a big cause of the problems I have experienced in game. You stated in this thread that YOU are leading the charge on showing people how to do this. Did you not expect that you'd get both positive and negative feedback to what YOU have chosen to lead?

2. As for calling you ignorant: I didn't say it to make you feel good nor bad. I tend to shy away from insulting people and I've never quite gotten why people take being called ignorant as an insult. I use the word, even in reference to myself, if I don't know something. Example: "I'm quite ignorant on the topic of PvPing on a 220 engie." I said that exact sentence just a week or so ago to someone that was asking me about my engie. Does that mean I'm stupid? No. Being ignorant just means you don't know. So getting back to the statement I made where I indicated that you might be ignorant.... There are only 2 options as I see it. 1. You didn't realize that people would take your guide and start using it to multibox in outdoor/non-instanced content where there is competition for mobs. OR 2. You realized it would happen but you didn't care (possibly because you don't see it as an issue) so you moved forward with the guide anyway. By you indicating that I called you ignorant I guess you're saying it was option 1? Because I definitely used the word "OR" in my sentence. And if it is option 1 then maybe it isn't just ignorance but also naivety.

For what it's worth, I don't personally think you had any intention to do harm. Obviously that doesn't matter when it is causing me to have a less desirable game experience.. which again, I'm sure you really couldn't care less about. Like the anti-PvP multiboxers, the anti-PvM multiboxers (like me) will eventually go away from the game too and then the issue will be done. And no, that isn't a "I'm quitting over multiboxing" statement, in the grand scheme of things with AO it is just another drop in the bucket.

[Dochere]

So basically, its being argued that it's better to hide information about multiboxing or lets use the more pleasing terminology "dual/triple/qual log" and pretend that it does not happen. At least here its a forum were we can share experience and encourage people not to use it in pvp and then hope that people understand what it causes to pvp. It's not like its hard to find any information around this topic on the net as there are hundreds of forums dedicated to the topic surrounding multiboxing, lets be quite honest here, multiboxing generates revenue and not seeing that money ultimately is what talks is being ignorant, as long as multiboxing generates additional revenue it is highly doubtful it'll ever be outlawed in AO or any other mmo for that matter.

[Psikie]

I suppose that's your "loud trumpet" but I can tell you collectively that since 2001 I have less than 500 kills across 5 220 toons I'd hardly call my self one of the pvp crowd,

Let me do some simple math for you, anyone who has racked up more than... lets say 100 kills or 3 pvp titles ranks on their toons could be considered pvp crowd.

Why such a low number?

1. Because pvm players 1 usually won't accumulate that number of kills.
2. Pvm players are not interested in the titles.
3. Pvm get in and get out as fast as humanly possible so the chance of getting stray kills is lower.

But that is strictly my definition and opinion.

[Traderjill]

At least here its a forum were we can share experience and encourage people not to use it in pvp and then hope that people understand what it causes to pvp.
<snip>
lets be quite honest here, multiboxing generates revenue and not seeing that money ultimately is what talks is being ignorant, as long as multiboxing generates additional revenue it is highly doubtful it'll ever be outlawed in AO or any other mmo for that matter.

And since this forum for discussion has been opened up to discuss how it can be bad in PvP I am adding on that it can also be bad in PvM. Perhaps you, or anyone else, disagrees with me and you're within your right to do so. That doesn't change the negative impact multiboxing has had on my game experience.

In terms of revenue generation, I'm not so sure that the number of accounts multiboxers are bringing to the table outweigh those that are lost from people leaving as a result. Just because someone disagrees with multiboxing doesn't mean they're only paying for one account (I have 3-4 paid accounts at any given time). Additionally, there is quite often a domino effect when people leave game. Using myself as an example. I have taken a break from AO several times over the past 10 years. Each time I've taken a break, numerous people have stopped playing within a month of that time. Why? Because when you have people that take a lead just disappear off the grid it impacts those that were playing with them. This has been seen time and time again, even recently with the PvP multiboxing. Believe it or not, so many people leaving game due to the PvP multiboxing was a big part of the reason why I stopped playing last year. Those PvP players also did lots of PvM and the very noticeable reduction in the Clan playerbase made the game feel empty to me and thus boring.

Anyway, I'll state again. Multiboxers, thus far, have won though I can still hope there will be some consideration for those of us that wish to not use 3rd party programs to control our toons.

-----------

I just want to clarify how I (and many others) are negatively impacted with an example that actually caused me to log out of game for a couple days due to annoyance. I'm only overexplaining in this post because I have no issues with the people that have responded. My posts in this thread were meant to bring awareness to a current issue and not to annoy other players. I've known Adva/Lil for quite awhile and always thought him to be a nice guy. I've spoken to Kitesolja a couple times on AOSpeak, seemed to be a reasonable person and I've seen some of Soju's streams and giveaways and thought they were cool gestures. My issue is primarily with Funcom and unfortunately an attempt to educate more people on how to multibox just magnifies their mishandling of the game.

So I opted to farm biodome keys. As you all know the waves of adds can vary. Sometimes you have to kill 3 waves of adds and sometimes it seems as if its a dozen or more. I was triple logged (doc/crat/soldier) and had just finished killing a wave of adds. The final boss popped and out of nowhere a multiboxer practically alpha'd it before I was even able to get it targeted with my toons.

There were several issues with this particular situation:
1. The multiboxer was Clan. I've farmed those keys a lot. In my experiences it was always one of the few places where you never had to worry about being OD'd because the biodome keys are faction specific.
2. One of the toons that OD'd me was someone I knew so I actually kinda went emo in tells with the person because I couldn't get why a friend of mine would even do that. Turns out, after a Steam conversation, that it wasn't my friend but someone from his org that was using his account. [Seems that the new generation of multiboxers can't be bothered with leveling toons so they're just borrowing them from friends.]
3. IMO this should've been covered by the killsteal policy in that I had to spend quite a bit of time spawning that mob.
4. There is absolutely nothing I could've done to not get OD'd in that scenario, outside of multiboxing myself. And this is where the issue is for me. I have no problem with being OD'd, it happens and it is part of the game. I've always felt, however, that if some guy is ODing me then I guess I need to go retwink my toon and OD him. Getting OD'd in this scenario isn't a matter of my toons not being as good (I can accept that) but that I won't use a 3rd party software to play the game.

I petitioned, btw, not only what I felt to be a violation of the killsteal policy but also the account sharing. I spoke to a GM in game and nothing was done, the guy was in game the next day pretty much doing the same thing. I was pretty annoyed and opted to simply take a couple days off game as a result and actually entertained the thought of just not playing anymore. I'm still at that point, tbh, not just over the multiboxing but general mishandling of several things but I'm in communications with funcom personnel and waiting to see their responses first.

Now you might read this and think "But most of your problems have nothing to do with multiboxing". On the surface that might be the case but multiboxing as a tool is well.. enabling people to behave like tools. I won't go into it more than that.. either you'll understand what I mean or you won't.

[Psikie]

Anyway, I'll state again. Multiboxers, thus far, have won though I can still hope there will be some consideration for those of us that wish to not use 3rd party programs to control our toons.

I just want to clarify how I (and many others) are negatively impacted with an example that actually caused me to log out of game for a couple days due to annoyance.

This is not personally targeted at you Jilly, but your quote is most accurate for my response.

Here is what gets me going on this issue. MB is only a problem when it affects the forum poster personally. It has nothing to do with "the game" except when it is or has been used to the disadvantage of the forum posters who are against it. Now of course everyone is entitled to their opinions and feelings. What bothers me is that MB is LEGAL. Now in the future that may or may not change based on how many forum posts and petitions are signed.

But what about all the not so legal stuff? You know 3rd party programs that can see your inspect, or your ncu? Where is the outcry over that? Why are there not dozens of hate threads over this breach of privacy and subsequent changes to everyone's open inspect and visible ncu in 18.7?
No pitchforks and cross burnings for those players? But MB is getting all the press even though it is currently legal. What about the obnoxious 1hb/1he perk bug? Not like you can't see enfos walking around with multi wield 1hb/1he right?

The powers that be have currently decided publically that it is legal, as legal as clicksaver I would suggest. But of course no one uses or has ever used clicksaver as a third party program that send signals to your unattended toon game client while you go have coffee and a smoke right?

[Caloss2]

Let me do some simple math for you, anyone who has racked up more than... lets say 100 kills or 3 pvp titles ranks on their toons could be considered pvp crowd.

Why such a low number?

1. Because pvm players 1 usually won't accumulate that number of kills.
2. Pvm players are not interested in the titles.
3. Pvm get in and get out as fast as humanly possible so the chance of getting stray kills is lower.

But that is strictly my definition and opinion.

As you bring up maths; I'll actually use some.
100 kills over 13 years = 7.7 kills a year, or 0.02 kills a day, and no not a title between them. most of those kills and losses happened when Tara was an end game event, and lvl cap was 200 and game population around x10 of present day.



So yes I suppose that could be considered a rationale of someone being a pvp-er, but this would be an unlikely conclusion by a player who actually is one.

[Caloss2]

This is not personally targeted at you Jilly, but your quote is most accurate for my response.

Here is what gets me going on this issue. MB is only a problem when it affects the forum poster personally. It has nothing to do with "the game" except when it is or has been used to the disadvantage of the forum posters who are against it. Now of course everyone is entitled to their opinions and feelings. What bothers me is that MB is LEGAL. Now in the future that may or may not change based on how many forum posts and petitions are signed.

But what about all the not so legal stuff? You know 3rd party programs that can see your inspect, or your ncu? Where is the outcry over that? Why are there not dozens of hate threads over this breach of privacy and subsequent changes to everyone's open inspect and visible ncu in 18.7?
No pitchforks and cross burnings for those players? But MB is getting all the press even though it is currently legal. What about the obnoxious 1hb/1he perk bug? Not like you can't see enfos walking around with multi wield 1hb/1he right?

The powers that be have currently decided publically that it is legal, as legal as clicksaver I would suggest. But of course no one uses or has ever used clicksaver as a third party program that send signals to your unattended toon game client while you go have coffee and a smoke right?

Multiboxing is and has been causing a trophic cascade with in the game, the only defense I've heard to support it's use from others not just yourself, is "it's legal" (so was slavery once) and misdirection (look over there, points at other thing) regarding unrelated activities in game.
It's not really much of an argument :/

[Traderjill]

This is not personally targeted at you Jilly, but your quote is most accurate for my response.

Here is what gets me going on this issue. MB is only a problem when it affects the forum poster personally. It has nothing to do with "the game" except when it is or has been used to the disadvantage of the forum posters who are against it.

I'm really confused by this being a concern of yours. Isn't that common sense? Wouldn't people post when something affects them personally especially when it has been used to the disadvantage of the forum poster? Don't get me wrong, if I see something going on that is not directly impacting me but seems to be driving people away from the game (i.e. MBing in PvP) I will most definitely post my opinion but other than me seeing something in game having a negative impact.. how would I (or anyone) know to post about it.

But what about all the not so legal stuff? You know 3rd party programs that can see your inspect, or your ncu? Where is the outcry over that? Why are there not dozens of hate threads over this breach of privacy and subsequent changes to everyone's open inspect and visible ncu in 18.7?
No pitchforks and cross burnings for those players? But MB is getting all the press even though it is currently legal. What about the obnoxious 1hb/1he perk bug? Not like you can't see enfos walking around with multi wield 1hb/1he right?

Simple answer. We can't discuss exploits on the forums. Multiboxing was not deemed an exploit which means we can freely discuss it on AO's official forums. AOMH use, as far as I know, has been deemed to be a violation of the EULA/an exploit and therefore we can't have an open discussion about it per AO's forum policy. I will say that I have lost count of the number of threads that have been deleted because the topic came up and people started talking about it. It isn't as if the outrage doesn't exist, there just isn't a forum for people to discuss it.

As for the change to inspect, I've seen pages and pages of complaints about it. I personally like open inspect so any post you see from me is in support of it (and lists why) but I can't say that the anti-open inspect people have been silent because they haven't. As for the 1hb/1he thing. I remember, when I was working on my enfo, a friend explaining the issue and I therefore opted out of using 1hb/1he. Since then, I did a review of the perklines and I didn't see evidence of what he explained was the exploit. I suppose it didn't really matter to me one way or the other anyway since I don't really play the toon (was just a 2 month project since I didn't have an endgame enfo). I can't say I hear anyone in game complaining about 1hb/1he use by enforcers. I mean, besides you bringing it up on the forums and a brief chat in AOSpeak almost 2 years ago, I don't know anyone that cares about that topic. I haven't heard anyone saying they were quitting because they got ganked by a 1hb/1he enforcer or anything of that nature. Is that a hot topic amongst your in-game circle?

It is also important to note that the amount of 'noise' you see on the forums is directly related to how aggravating the situation is that's happening. Open inspect has not yet made it to Live. I suspect that when/if it does, there will be quite an uproar on the forums. Heck, I'll be one of them if it turns out to be how it is currently on TestLive where I still get that annoying message every time someone inspects me. (Though unless they make some drastic changes to 18.7 content, I suspect that will be the least of anyone's concerns.)

The powers that be have currently decided publically that it is legal, as legal as clicksaver I would suggest. But of course no one uses or has ever used clicksaver as a third party program that send signals to your unattended toon game client while you go have coffee and a smoke right?

I keep seeing people bring up Clicksaver and Mishbuddy. I don't currently use them but I've yet to see a compelling argument regarding how their use is negatively impacting the game. If I saw something that made sense I might post in support of them not being legal. Until that happens, they seem ok to me.

[Psikie]

Multiboxing is and has been causing a trophic cascade with in the game, the only defense I've heard to support it's use from others not just yourself, is "it's legal" (so was slavery once)

1. It's legal is the only defense that is needed.
2. That you would try to compare a real life horrific event like slavery to anything in a fictitious game is offensive and appalling.

I'm really confused by this being a concern of yours. Isn't that common sense? Wouldn't people post when something affects them personally especially when it has been used to the disadvantage of the forum poster?

I suppose it didn't really matter to me one way or the other anyway

I keep seeing people bring up Clicksaver and Mishbuddy. I don't currently use them but I've yet to see a compelling argument regarding how their use is negatively impacting the game. If I saw something that made sense I might post in support of them not being legal. Until that happens, they seem ok to me.

Hypothetically a veteran player of 5+ years starts a thread saying ban Clicksaver. Because it allows unattended toon control by clicking through missions. So this player who always plays "the right way" by not using 3rd party software has to literally manually run through dozens if not hundreds of missions in game to find the particular ql50 nano his toon needs. But other players who are ruining the game by using 3rd party software, that is affecting his enjoyment because he is drinking hater-ade.

You will never see a thread like that because clicksaver is so engrained in game play and game play blitzing guides etc etc it is just accepted. The point is clicksaver is a step beyond MB as far as legality, but it is turned a blind eye by funcom where as MB has been stated to be legal. If you do not see the slippery slope that is being treaded here I hate to open your eyes to ALL the 3rd party stuff we use on a regular. Where do you think those nifty gui skins come from, or gsp radio, or all those nifty in game maps and org bots.

I would like to think that the reasons MB was deemed legal had something to do with the developers thinking about what I just posted and not some random decision. But some of you will probably think I am giving them too much credit.

Do not cut off your nose to spite your faces. Some one stated "misdirection" was some form of defense being used, not at all, it's more of be careful what you wish for because it could have unforeseen consequences.

***Remember I don't use MB, but I can see bigger picture of what requests like this can lead to, there a LOT of things we take for granted in this game as useful and helpful. Can you imagine AO without them?