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Thread: My glass cannon build

  1. #1

    My glass cannon build

    http://auno.org/ao/equip.php?saveid=193238

    Some DPM results:

    Completely self-(dps)-buffed, no raid buffs, no nanobot shielding:

    Short fights:
    460K to 480K, Chaotic Heckler [tried a few times]
    460K, Level 203 HP-dyna boss in PW
    450K, Enthralled Molok [NS2]
    440K, Mick 'Nugget' McMullet [too short]


    Medium fights:
    460K, Morgan Le Faye
    425K to 440K, Den Mantis Queen [tried a few times]
    415K, Diseased Prisoner [used watch ward/pre-nullity sphere/first aid]
    405K, Maychwaham [used NS2/first aid/watch ward/pre-nullity sphere/layers/blinds, non-optimal dps]
    390K, running around to kill 5 Den Mantis Breeders as fast as I can

    Long fights:
    410K, Level 250 HP-dyna boss in PW

    --------------------------------------------

    To simulate a raid-like situation:
    With keeper/soldier dps aura, no raid buffs, no suppressive horde, no nanobot shielding:

    Long fights:
    435K, Level 250 HP-dyna boss in PW

    --------------------------------------------

    Example self-buffed Candycanes:

    At start of fight:
    You hit Den Mantis Breeder with nanobots for 1349 points of melee damage.
    You hit Den Mantis Breeder with nanobots for 1448 points of projectile damage.
    You hit Den Mantis Breeder with nanobots for 1429 points of energy damage.
    You hit Den Mantis Breeder with nanobots for 1429 points of fire damage.
    You hit Den Mantis Breeder with nanobots for 1349 points of cold damage.
    You hit Den Mantis Breeder with nanobots for 1373 points of chemical damage.
    You hit Den Mantis Breeder with nanobots for 1373 points of poison damage.
    You hit Den Mantis Breeder with nanobots for 1453 points of radiation damage.

    Mid-fight:
    You hit Chaotic Heckler with nanobots for 1522 points of melee damage.
    You hit Chaotic Heckler with nanobots for 1621 points of projectile damage.
    You hit Chaotic Heckler with nanobots for 1602 points of energy damage.
    You hit Chaotic Heckler with nanobots for 1602 points of fire damage.
    You hit Chaotic Heckler with nanobots for 1522 points of cold damage.
    You hit Chaotic Heckler with nanobots for 1522 points of chemical damage.
    You hit Chaotic Heckler with nanobots for 1522 points of poison damage.
    You hit Chaotic Heckler with nanobots for 1602 points of radiation damage.

    Notes:
    Everything except SI/DM/Knowledge Enhancer bound to button 1, because this is on test and I've never played NT before

    Exactly 3300 self-buffed (no gauntlet) Nano Init., which is required to instacast Candycane
    803 self-buffed (no gauntlet) Strength, needed at least 800

    Great instacast nuke for kiting!

    Improvements that could be made:
    Superior Ancient Combat Tuner, DPS memories, some sort of good perk order, different perks?, different implants?, BigBurger in certain situations?

    This setup loves +add all dmg, like raid buffs!

    What do you think? Anyone with a setup like this on live want to comment? Anyone who can provide DPM numbers for similar targets for a standard cyberdeck dpm build? Any tips for NT dps in general that a tester might be doing wrong?

    PM Stardestroy on test if you want to OST LoTV for me, can provide crat/sol auras!!
    Plus1, President of Sinead O'Connor

    Try out my implant laddering tool: ao-ladderer.

  2. #2
    hot damn, nice job!

    Now that's using the noggin!

  3. #3
    So, holy dam...

    Wait... Are these figures in K damage per minute ? It is unclear...

    Sounds very very interesting if so !

    Do you still use SI - DM, do you regular/burst with these pistols ?

    What kind of damage is dealt by DM, SI, and these pistols compared to candycane ?

    What is your nuking routine, I d guess SI - DM - Candy x2 - DM etc, or did you try 3 candy per DM ?

    what about nano resist issues since you don't have CB and probably low MC ?

    More details !

    Very exciting setup !

    Woot !
    Last edited by Djiax; Nov 22nd, 2013 at 02:23:41.

  4. #4
    looks like DPM to me.

    so...with raid buffs, and full DPM setup, you could be hitting closer to 2k's (~15.2-16k per nuke) with candycane. always wondered about that since we can use +dmg now, looks like it's true. wish I had more flexibility with my 200 setup to try out stuff like this.

    what procs were you using?
    Last edited by RedWatr; Nov 22nd, 2013 at 03:07:37.
    T O O N Z:
    Renamed (jeycihn) 220/30(so sexy, so Borealis...I miss it the most...still melee <3 thnx for all your help Scum!
    Giit 200/30 NM NT(THE most dangerous, and bitchy thing I ever created)
    Sixunder 158/21 NM Tra (158+SMG=Atomic bomb? Feather pillow? meh, depends on what mood she's in oO)
    Eightup 158/21 Opi Fix (perfect, maxed twink, definitive "FUN")
    Xerrrox 17X Opi Fix (GA4 fr00b...buff prostitute...reason to log in)
    Enjey 60/6 NM Eng (high maintenance OP'ness)
    Nanimated New NM Agent (no patience for it...sigh)
    Somethiing 200 Atrox Sold (potential x1k...not nearly enough "give a f*ck")
    P A R A D I S E ~&~ P A R A S I T E ~&~ B R O K E N ~&~ CCI ~&~ NOTHING PERSONAL

  5. #5
    Thanks for all the responses. These numbers are DPM, and after messing around with a DPS oriented shade on test, they are pretty crazy. A lot better than the shade over time, and _much much_ better burst damage. Insane burst damage and target-switching damage, so will be excellent in a pande/zerg raid. Shadowlands damage is amazing, and RK perhaps beaten only by engineers.

    Djiax, here is what I do:
    At start of fight, use Knowledge Enhancer, press Q, cast SI, then DM, then spam 1. 1 is bound to Candycane, Burst, Fling, and all my perks, and after playing around a bit, I'm using this order for my perks:

    Program Overload, Stop Notum Flow, Breach Defense, Notum Overflow, Nano Feast, Quark Containment Field, Accelerate Decaying Quarks, Collapser, Implode, Dazzle with Lights, Combust, Thermal Detonation, Supernova, Flim Focus, Utilize, Bot Confinement.

    I'm sure someone who has played NT a lot can optimize this.

    And good question, I have gone back and forth between 2x Candycane per DM, and 3X. Right now I'm doing 3X, unless near end of fight or end of SI, then wait a second for DM.

    More stats:

    Matter Crea = 2132
    Pistol AR = 2237
    Burst = 1068

    I've noticed 0 problems nuking anything, but then again I haven't tried raid bosses. Given the 97% NR check and my experience on my crat main with WD, I don't think I'll have problems nuking anything. I'd have to double check though.

    Procs:
    No procs seem important DD-wise to me. Nano regain is a non-issue. I'm using Thermal Reprieve and Harvest Energy. On live, you probably won't have 3300 Nano Init due to the contracts my org has. So you might need to use Nano Init procs, but it won't effect your dps much, just your ability to kite knowing 100% you won't move before nuke casts.

    Red, yes that's correct. With raid buffs, keeper aura, soldier aura, advy aura, Candycane gets insane. You can squeeze about +22 more add all damage into my setup, using DPS mems and ring of Gruesome Misery when not in SL.

    As for damage comparison between SI/DM, Candycane, and pistols, let me get back to you.
    Plus1, President of Sinead O'Connor

    Try out my implant laddering tool: ao-ladderer.

  6. #6
    Imo this is taking "DPS" to an insane level.

    I'm very annoyed I didn't think of it first... considering all the fuss I was giving to proc damage on shades/traders/keepers when the damage to perks patch went live, I totally didn't think of using NT's this way.

    many props. I want to try it.

  7. #7
    Thanks Knuckle. Here's some more information:

    No outside buffs, no raid buffs, no nanobot shielding, no reanimator cloak, etc:

    Chaotic Heckler full fight, after setting my perk order up as explained in the above post.
    I have abbreviated the Candycane message for ease of reading.

    498K DPM

    Code:
    #: totalDmg : name :        crit% |dpm|      reg&crit-spec-nano hits: 
       224,349  : Stardestroy : 6.3%  | 498,553 | 16-6-73
    [ First hit of SI gets cut off, I believe]

    You hit Chaotic Heckler for 1609 points of projectile damage.
    You hit Chaotic Heckler for 4827 points of Burst damage.
    You hit Chaotic Heckler with nanobots for 830 points of radiation damage.
    You hit Chaotic Heckler for 1609 points of Fling Shot damage.
    You hit Chaotic Heckler with nanobots for 1390 points of fire damage.
    You hit Chaotic Heckler with nanobots for 17003 points of radiation damage.
    CANDYCANE: 11739
    You hit Chaotic Heckler with nanobots for 830 points of radiation damage.
    You hit Chaotic Heckler for 1609 points of projectile damage.
    You hit Chaotic Heckler with nanobots for 830 points of radiation damage.
    You hit Chaotic Heckler for 1609 points of projectile damage.
    You hit Chaotic Heckler for 1609 points of projectile damage.
    You hit Chaotic Heckler with nanobots for 830 points of radiation damage.
    CANDYCANE: 12603
    You hit Chaotic Heckler for 1609 points of Fling Shot damage.
    You hit Chaotic Heckler for 1609 points of projectile damage.
    You hit Chaotic Heckler with nanobots for 830 points of radiation damage.
    You hit Chaotic Heckler for 2439 points of projectile damage.Critical hit!
    You hit Chaotic Heckler with nanobots for 830 points of radiation damage.
    CANDYCANE: 12603
    You hit Chaotic Heckler for 1609 points of projectile damage.
    You hit Chaotic Heckler with nanobots for 830 points of radiation damage.
    You hit Chaotic Heckler for 1609 points of projectile damage.
    You hit Chaotic Heckler with nanobots for 4279 points of projectile damage.
    You hit Chaotic Heckler with nanobots for 830 points of radiation damage.
    You hit Chaotic Heckler for 1609 points of projectile damage.
    You hit Chaotic Heckler with nanobots for 1625 points of fire damage.
    You hit Chaotic Heckler with nanobots for 25487 points of radiation damage.
    You hit Chaotic Heckler for 2439 points of Fling Shot damage.
    CANDYCANE: 13251
    You hit Chaotic Heckler for 1609 points of projectile damage.
    You hit Chaotic Heckler with nanobots for 830 points of radiation damage.
    You hit Chaotic Heckler with nanobots for 3579 points of projectile damage.
    You hit Chaotic Heckler for 1609 points of projectile damage.
    You hit Chaotic Heckler with nanobots for 830 points of radiation damage.
    You hit Chaotic Heckler for 1609 points of projectile damage.
    CANDYCANE: 13251
    You hit Chaotic Heckler with nanobots for 2579 points of projectile damage.
    You hit Chaotic Heckler with nanobots for 830 points of radiation damage.
    You hit Chaotic Heckler for 1609 points of projectile damage.
    You hit Chaotic Heckler for 1609 points of Fling Shot damage.
    You hit Chaotic Heckler with nanobots for 830 points of radiation damage.
    You hit Chaotic Heckler for 1609 points of projectile damage.
    You hit Chaotic Heckler for 4827 points of Burst damage.
    You hit Chaotic Heckler with nanobots for 830 points of radiation damage.
    You hit Chaotic Heckler for 1609 points of projectile damage.
    You hit Chaotic Heckler with nanobots for 4066 points of projectile damage.
    You hit Chaotic Heckler for 1609 points of projectile damage.
    You hit Chaotic Heckler with nanobots for 1625 points of fire damage.
    You hit Chaotic Heckler with nanobots for 26348 points of radiation damage.
    CANDYCANE: 13251
    You hit Chaotic Heckler with nanobots for 4284 points of radiation damage.
    You hit Chaotic Heckler with nanobots for 830 points of radiation damage.
    You hit Chaotic Heckler for 1609 points of projectile damage.
    You hit Chaotic Heckler with nanobots for 830 points of radiation damage.
    You hit Chaotic Heckler for 1609 points of projectile damage.
    You hit Chaotic Heckler with nanobots for 1646 points of fire damage.

    *dead heckler*
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------

    Code:
    CANDYCANE TOTAL: 76698
    DM TOTAL:        73478 
    PISTOL TOTAL:    46712
    SI TOTAL:        16734
    PERKS:           10727
    Fight length: 27 seconds.

    My +nano damage perks had gotten rolling, but almost all of my pure dps perks hadn't gone off yet.
    The other runs shown were _not_ done using the new perk ordering (non-random, now with some strategy) that I discussed in my 2nd post.

    Probably won't change too much for longer fights. Note, the longer fights were _not_ long enough to recycle Knowledge Enhancer (but close), and not all mediums could even recycle Program Overload.
    Last edited by walterodim; Nov 23rd, 2013 at 20:08:28.
    Plus1, President of Sinead O'Connor

    Try out my implant laddering tool: ao-ladderer.

  8. #8
    Comparing different professions, all on a Chaotic Heckler and pure self-buffed, no raid buffs, no 10+ minute cooldowns, etc:

    -------------------------------------------------------------
    NT

    Glass Cannon from above, included for ease of comparison

    http://auno.org/ao/equip.php?saveid=193238

    500K DPM

    Code:
    #: totalDmg : name :        crit% |dpm      | reg&crit-spec-nano hits1: 
       224,349  : Stardestroy : 6.3%  | 498,553 | 16-6-73
    -------------------------------------------------------------
    Shade

    DPS oriented, TR/SR/SP/PM fully perked (no CIB/Acrobat), with the following equip:

    http://auno.org/ao/equip.php?saveid=193269

    375K DPM, no Sneak Attack, Backstab, etc.

    Code:
    #: totalDmg : name     : crit% |dpm      | reg&crit-spec-nano hits: 
        231,414 : Mandinka : 52.2% | 375,265 | 23-7-106
    -------------------------------------------------------------
    Crat

    Pure PVM solo, designed for Anansi L/R Hand, Bigots, Xark/Razor etc. Usually the defense HUD is equipped, and depending
    on mob difficulty, weapons are swapped for Lotus Parry Sticks:

    http://auno.org/ao/equip.php?saveid=193270

    Proc'd once. Tried again with 2x Anansi Childs, and DPM was the same pretty much.

    260K DPM

    Code:
    #: totalDmg : name  : crit% |dpm      | reg&crit-spec-nano hits: 
       234,995  : Plus3 : 8.8%  | 261,105 | 113-7-19
    Tried again with a more DPS oriented setup; CC, Dchest, different perks, ERBP and so on, and got up to 275K, also with 1 proc, not great:

    275K DPM

    -------------------------------------------------------------
    Fixer

    PVM/DPM focused

    http://auno.org/ao/equip.php?saveid=193271

    First half of the fight is very quick... second half, not so much.

    245K DPM

    Code:
    #: totalDmg : name : crit% |dpm      | reg&crit-spec-nano hits: 
       233,263  : Deyv : 23.3% | 245,540 | 30-20-13
    -------------------------------------------------------------
    Enforcer

    PVM tanking focused

    http://auno.org/ao/equip.php?saveid=193272

    175K DPM

    Code:
    #: totalDmg : name   : crit% |dpm      | reg&crit-spec-nano hits: 
        234,100 : Biggi3 : 12.8% | 173,407 | 39-21-21
    Last edited by walterodim; Nov 22nd, 2013 at 16:15:38.
    Plus1, President of Sinead O'Connor

    Try out my implant laddering tool: ao-ladderer.

  9. #9
    Neat setup!

    Since you're comparing it to other professions, maybe you could test an engineer setup roughly like this:

    http://auno.org/ao/equip.php?saveid=189992 (snipers friend is an option)

    I was surprised you beat the shade by so much.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Seoin View Post
    Neat setup!

    Since you're comparing it to other professions, maybe you could test an engineer setup roughly like this:

    http://auno.org/ao/equip.php?saveid=189992 (snipers friend is an option)

    I was surprised you beat the shade by so much.
    Thanks, yeah I want to try a DPS engi setup like that for sure. One problem is I can't get those implants on test in any efficient manner, so I feel like I can't do FA heavy setups much justice. If you or anyone else has a setup like that on live, let me know and I would be more than happy to run a DD dump for you while you kill a heck or two.

    Also, anyone who thinks my DPS is low for the classes I listed, feel free to run one yourself and post in this thread with your equip! But let us know if you ran around killing hecks till you got 4 procs in a row or used some crazy cooldown thing.
    Plus1, President of Sinead O'Connor

    Try out my implant laddering tool: ao-ladderer.

  11. #11
    Ah, I didn't know that about testlive I'd do it on live but it's been ages since my engineer was set up like that.

    A traditional cyberdeck NT with %dmg instead of +dmg setup might be another good thing to compare, it would let you know how worth it a setup like this might be after all.

  12. #12
    yeah I'd like to see how that works out vs. the old school % nano dmg setup also. I'm thinking it might actually be worth flirting with a full DPS setup for s7 now.
    T O O N Z:
    Renamed (jeycihn) 220/30(so sexy, so Borealis...I miss it the most...still melee <3 thnx for all your help Scum!
    Giit 200/30 NM NT(THE most dangerous, and bitchy thing I ever created)
    Sixunder 158/21 NM Tra (158+SMG=Atomic bomb? Feather pillow? meh, depends on what mood she's in oO)
    Eightup 158/21 Opi Fix (perfect, maxed twink, definitive "FUN")
    Xerrrox 17X Opi Fix (GA4 fr00b...buff prostitute...reason to log in)
    Enjey 60/6 NM Eng (high maintenance OP'ness)
    Nanimated New NM Agent (no patience for it...sigh)
    Somethiing 200 Atrox Sold (potential x1k...not nearly enough "give a f*ck")
    P A R A D I S E ~&~ P A R A S I T E ~&~ B R O K E N ~&~ CCI ~&~ NOTHING PERSONAL

  13. #13
    *downloads Test to attempt this*
    I'm Batman.

  14. #14
    Testing a standard-build DPM NT, Stardestroy2, against Stardestroy:

    Stardestroy2's equip:
    http://auno.org/ao/equip.php?saveid=193284

    Preliminary results:
    380K against Queen, 450K against Chaotic Heckler for Stardestroy2, compared to:
    430K against Queen, 500K against Chaotic Heckler for Stardestroy, as above.

    Again really good damage for shorter fights, in the same ballpark as the pistol NT. I was surprised at the amount of damage he is able to push out.

    I realize now that NTs are biased towards these shorter fights, especially since I've been using Knowledge Enhancer, Program Overload, and Notum Overflow at start.

    So, to better compare with other professions, I redid the 250 HP-dyna fight, this time going for 4-5ish minutes rather than stopping around the 2 1/2 to 3 minute mark as I did before. I only used Knowledge Enhancer and Notum Overflow once for all of these, at start of fight.

    Level 250 HP-dyna boss in PW, no outside buffs, 4-5ish minute fight:

    Code:
    #: totalDmg  : name         : crit% |dpm      | reg&crit-spec-nano hits: 
       1,449,244 : Stardestroy2 : 0.0%  | 357,043 | 0-0-299
       
    #: totalDmg  : name         : crit% |dpm      | reg&crit-spec-nano hits: 
       1,719,491 : Stardestroy  : 12.6% | 390,793 | 151-53-628
       
    #: totalDmg  : name         : crit% |dpm      | reg&crit-spec-nano hits: 
       1,880,873 : Mandinka     : 33.1% | 386,480 | 178-50-1093
    Level 250 HP-dyna boss in PW, keeper/soldier/advy auras to simulate a raid environment:

    Code:
    #: totalDmg  : name         : crit% |dpm      | reg&crit-spec-nano hits: 
       1,498,494 : Stardestroy2 : 0.0%  | 358,974 | 0-0-318
       
    #: totalDmg  : name         : crit% |dpm      | reg&crit-spec-nano hits: 
       1,996,520 : Stardestroy  : 15.6% | 457,218 | 147-52-630
       
    #: totalDmg  : name         : crit% |dpm      | reg&crit-spec-nano hits: 
       2,067,319 : Mandinka     : 37.3% | 426,251 | 177-49-1176
    Stardestroy2 gained very little. Stardestroy gained about 65K DPM... wow. And with raid buffs, and a few more items... For example, I am missing sinew, but just simulate it with fixer DPS buff when doing solo runs--this doesn't work in a team situation though. Fully optimized and in the perfect raid team, someone might be on the doorstep of a legit 500K over an extended fight.

    Shades benefit greatly from +add damage, since they have so many perks making use of it. Candycane+pistol NT is the only build I can think of that benefits more than a shade from +damage, and apparently by quite a lot more.

    It's really important to note that unlike lots of professions, this damage seems very consistent across both RK and the Shadowlands, as long as everything is landing.

    Footnote:
    Stardestroy2 is missing Nano Targeting Helpers and a properly chipped cyberdeck, which would make a noticeable difference.
    Then again, Stardestroy also needs a Nano Targeting Helper in HUD 1.
    Also, none of this addresses AoE nuking. I'm not sure how common that is in raid situations, or which nukes are used.
    Last edited by walterodim; Nov 23rd, 2013 at 00:35:10. Reason: add Shade stats
    Plus1, President of Sinead O'Connor

    Try out my implant laddering tool: ao-ladderer.

  15. #15
    square chip added to deck adds 3% nano dmg iirc, and nanite board adds some more (2%?). whether or not it trumps the +dmg, I do not know, and don't have the calcs.

    *EDIT-just noticed your footnotes
    Last edited by RedWatr; Nov 23rd, 2013 at 04:10:23.
    T O O N Z:
    Renamed (jeycihn) 220/30(so sexy, so Borealis...I miss it the most...still melee <3 thnx for all your help Scum!
    Giit 200/30 NM NT(THE most dangerous, and bitchy thing I ever created)
    Sixunder 158/21 NM Tra (158+SMG=Atomic bomb? Feather pillow? meh, depends on what mood she's in oO)
    Eightup 158/21 Opi Fix (perfect, maxed twink, definitive "FUN")
    Xerrrox 17X Opi Fix (GA4 fr00b...buff prostitute...reason to log in)
    Enjey 60/6 NM Eng (high maintenance OP'ness)
    Nanimated New NM Agent (no patience for it...sigh)
    Somethiing 200 Atrox Sold (potential x1k...not nearly enough "give a f*ck")
    P A R A D I S E ~&~ P A R A S I T E ~&~ B R O K E N ~&~ CCI ~&~ NOTHING PERSONAL

  16. #16
    What about MA NT?:->
    Quote Originally Posted by Michizure View Post
    This'll be fixed for the next patch

  17. #17
    yep, trip wield kuma tonfas is what I was thinking about after reading this too

    NT's have natural pistol support though which might make it significantly more feasible.

  18. #18
    stick with pistols, no way with exterm symbs you'll be worth a **** melee.
    T O O N Z:
    Renamed (jeycihn) 220/30(so sexy, so Borealis...I miss it the most...still melee <3 thnx for all your help Scum!
    Giit 200/30 NM NT(THE most dangerous, and bitchy thing I ever created)
    Sixunder 158/21 NM Tra (158+SMG=Atomic bomb? Feather pillow? meh, depends on what mood she's in oO)
    Eightup 158/21 Opi Fix (perfect, maxed twink, definitive "FUN")
    Xerrrox 17X Opi Fix (GA4 fr00b...buff prostitute...reason to log in)
    Enjey 60/6 NM Eng (high maintenance OP'ness)
    Nanimated New NM Agent (no patience for it...sigh)
    Somethiing 200 Atrox Sold (potential x1k...not nearly enough "give a f*ck")
    P A R A D I S E ~&~ P A R A S I T E ~&~ B R O K E N ~&~ CCI ~&~ NOTHING PERSONAL

  19. #19
    It is good on short fights, but is this the best damage ingame over a longer time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Michizure View Post
    This'll be fixed for the next patch

  20. #20
    Looks nice, for AOE stuff i use dd hud, fire aruls. For tight pulls LE cataclysm with ADd nano damage. Looks awesome though, I get nowhere near on my actual NT.
    Quote Originally Posted by Michizure View Post
    This'll be fixed for the next patch

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