Who actually wants the rebalance to happen?

[McKnuckleSamwich]

On the other hand, you don't need to be a visionary to predict what that change would do to some of the weaker TL7 ranged professions. I'd say: TL7 Agents, TL7 MPs (though they could go melee), TL7 Traders.

I could see it being very difficult for agents.

time to invest in a microphone?

[Pomidor]

I want things to get balanced.

I want to see at least following changes (with explenation):

1) Low levels, 10-75

a) Remove Neleb stick - this weapo is destroied lowbie pvp to extend, that everyone uses it and there are no longer unique setups. Besides, its overpowered, if 1 weapon can be sued for all proffesions.

b) Add better weapon choice for engineers/MPs/Crats - - in PVP those characters need more dmg from gun to able to kill enfs ect. Also, while I am at it, Engi need blocker for 3 specs and blocker for regular 1 attack at low/mid level, since every opponent can use multiple special attacks in peroid of 1 minute. This wont affect higher levels at all.

c) Remove Dodge Ranged modifier from Wit of the Atrox perk.

2) Mid level: 100-150

a) Definatelly remove Nanite from traders - make them usable from lvl 201 at least.

b) Rework DoF from lvl 175 or lower modifiers from 800 to 400. MA's, starting from lvl 130, are undefeatable PVM/PVP wise with crits scaling around 5k dmg (PVM) and almost unhitable for players with AR at 1900. No wonder we see 70% of playerbase at 150 (S10 and BS) as MAs only.

level 200+

a) Firstly, I would like to see all crat nanos changed, to their CC ability wont make them solo gods. It could be that team gains modifiers instead crats AOE nerfs enemies - whatever, just nerf them.

b) I would like to see MPs gain power for CC, that curently crat posses: - AOE nuke with -NanoInit, It was suggested by me, that the nanos could go like this: lvl 50: -500 NanoInit / lvl 100: -800 NanoInit / lvl 150: -1200 NanoInit / lvl 200: -1500 NanoInit.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

if you remove neleb, you just goin to make traders more OP.

nelebs rod isn't a PVP weapon, it's a PVM weapon. It's meant to provide a stopgap to many nano using profs who run out of nano while trying to do normal activities.

People using it for PVP are either 1. very low level in which case it's a completely valid twink, or 2 a nano user in which case they will have super low AR and you can evade them without a problem. If you run into someone using a noob-rod in PVP, they are either going to kill you because they are a trader and they would have killed you otherwise, or they are made to do afk damage on a CT. So they aren't doing any harm in PVP anyway.

if engi/MP/crat don't have decent weap, why not use your OP noob rod? For PVP just use a bow or a onehander+whatever.

MP's should be evasion setups in general, no? their offense comes from nukes/pets. I have zero problems on my 110 MP.

Nerf DOF? really? because MA's are OP? I can't say I really find this.

nanites at 201+ are you serious? a trader is going to spat in seconds at 150+ without nanites. When I play vs trader with my high AR keeper, even while 2x nanite drained and 136 proc drained, and corporate protection, I'm still landing hits, not very many mind you, but still doing damage.

You remove nanites from TL5 and you just send all TL5 traders to the grave.

[Mastura]

I don't really care for or against the rebalance. Having an enfo main, I am in the camp of one of those players whose main is getting nerfed, but I don't mind. But I think a lot of profs probably need nerfing, so they stop being single-prof to rule them all type situations and encourage teaming again.

I am also in the camp of players that believes that 'holes' in armour and professions and whatever is good!!!! It forces teaming, or at best, dual logging. Any profession rebalance that enables one profession to do another profession's speciality is a big NONO. (ie profs that are now out-tanking the tank, out-healing the healer, out-travelling the travellers, out-profitting the profiters, out-dding the dders, etc). My biggest and pretty much only gripe, besides pack/inventory management is that PvP 'rebalancing' seeps into PvM and well now you have profs that pretty much are able to do what 3-4 other professions do, in some cases better, and professions begin to turn into the concept of a 'universal profession'

In the olden days, professions really meant something, this is one of the golden elements of AO, rich new possibilities and completely different profs to the conventional fighter/mage/ranger/bla/bla/bla of the rest of MMOs. Sure they had flaws, but they had a distinct role. I'm even happy with the notion that not ALL professions would be ideal for pvp, just like not all profs would be ideal for PvM. It creates flexibility and customisation and diversity of gameplay. If everyone keeps whining about their profession's 'holes' and they are 'rectified' ever evolving towards a universal profession, we end up with cookie-cutter pvp WoWtoons that is completely opposite to what AO is best known for: flexibility and customisation of toons! Bring back the imbalances. bring back the holes. bring back the complementary and unique abilities and profession specialisations.

Besides, since AO unofficially changed its name to "Duallog Online" due to population issues, I don't think the rebalancing is as important. It was far more important when people had '1 main' and it took FOREVER to get there. Now that we have dailies and 1-220 in < 1 week, most people have many 220s and know which toon to use for what, they aren't really 'stuck' with that profession. If they don't like something they just roll another toon. Hence why there is currently 90% population of 220 crat professions on AO atm.

At the same time, I am happy for the players that are getting new pets/toys for their main/chosen professions. Grats.

I *do* think as a few people said in the thread above me, I think there are much more pressing and important things to 'fix' the game in order to get players to return, new players to stay, etc and ultimately increase revenue. Bring back the old pvp titles!

Go have a look at the Gaming Suggestions or Bug forums to find out more info, but inventory/bank/backpack management for starters (see pack contents on hover-over or even if pack is empty or full, renaming 300+ packs, sorting, etc.... The steps and roof we get stuck on in shadowlands missions. The stuck command not working when you are apparently standing or falling even though you clearly are not.... lots lots more.

If you ask me, would I prefer Funcom to focus on AO over TSW or Lego or AoC? Of course.
Likewise, if you ask me would I prefer Funcom to focus on retexturing/modeling now that we have new engine over pvp rebalancing? Of course.
Do I like new content? Of course, just as much as the next person ... but do I care about rebalancing? No. I definitely think there is a long list of stuff to do before they consider making everyone's main profession uber.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

Besides, since AO unofficially changed its name to "Duallog Online" due to population issues, I don't think the rebalancing is as important. It was far more important when people had '1 main' and it took FOREVER to get there.


Now that we have dailies and 1-220 in < 1 week, most people have many 220s and know which toon to use for what, they aren't really 'stuck' with that profession. If they don't like something they just roll another toon. Hence why there is currently 90% population of 220 crat professions on AO atm.

The biggest problem that I see with this scenario yu've described so eloquently is that nobody know who their friend are anymore.

Everyrone has so many alts, you're like: hmm I wonder where Joe is? And he's got a new 220! wtf bro!

I agree, I spent more time building my MA, (3 years), than my advy (2 years), than my engi (1 year) than my crat (4 months), than my doctor (3 months).....

[Sleekyz]

I want things to get balanced.

I want to see at least following changes (with explenation):

1) Low levels, 10-75

a) Remove Neleb stick - this weapo is destroied lowbie pvp to extend, that everyone uses it and there are no longer unique setups. Besides, its overpowered, if 1 weapon can be sued for all proffesions.

b) Add better weapon choice for engineers/MPs/Crats - - in PVP those characters need more dmg from gun to able to kill enfs ect. Also, while I am at it, Engi need blocker for 3 specs and blocker for regular 1 attack at low/mid level, since every opponent can use multiple special attacks in peroid of 1 minute. This wont affect higher levels at all.

c) Remove Dodge Ranged modifier from Wit of the Atrox perk.

2) Mid level: 100-150

a) Definatelly remove Nanite from traders - make them usable from lvl 201 at least.

b) Rework DoF from lvl 175 or lower modifiers from 800 to 400. MA's, starting from lvl 130, are undefeatable PVM/PVP wise with crits scaling around 5k dmg (PVM) and almost unhitable for players with AR at 1900. No wonder we see 70% of playerbase at 150 (S10 and BS) as MAs only.

level 200+

a) Firstly, I would like to see all crat nanos changed, to their CC ability wont make them solo gods. It could be that team gains modifiers instead crats AOE nerfs enemies - whatever, just nerf them.

b) I would like to see MPs gain power for CC, that curently crat posses: - AOE nuke with -NanoInit, It was suggested by me, that the nanos could go like this: lvl 50: -500 NanoInit / lvl 100: -800 NanoInit / lvl 150: -1200 NanoInit / lvl 200: -1500 NanoInit.

my eyes ;_; this is like, no man. dont remove dof, don't remove perks. REMOVE ARMORS THAT ISNT UNIQUE TO THE PERKLINE DATABASE
thanks
christ...
too much coding for FC anyway

[Mavritanic]

well... changes will be good in the old game. Just for renewal

[algoreith]

i dont know why ppl freak out about rebalance. there is only one way to do it right and its with statistics, percentage, graphics etc... FC should not make changes with only comments. let the numbers speak for themselves. take new stats from test server, remake graphic with setups and compare. unless FC is really dump... we could write a story about that.

[scrumm]

I DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
{Edited by Valter: Profanity removed} I'm a MP! OFC I DO!

[Leetlover]

the game has become too easy (no, not talking grindlevel lol), and the 1st playthrough is a mess.

[Pinknpinker]

NOTHING IS BROKEN UNTIL YOU GUYS BREAK IT!!! Leave it alone and go make some new content or something!! Quit going to work under the influence of Scientology or whatever....

[Wyoming]

if you remove neleb, you just goin to make traders more OP.

nelebs rod isn't a PVP weapon, it's a PVM weapon. It's meant to provide a stopgap to many nano using profs who run out of nano while trying to do normal activities.

People using it for PVP are either 1. very low level in which case it's a completely valid twink, or 2 a nano user in which case they will have super low AR and you can evade them without a problem. If you run into someone using a noob-rod in PVP, they are either going to kill you because they are a trader and they would have killed you otherwise, or they are made to do afk damage on a CT. So they aren't doing any harm in PVP anyway.

if engi/MP/crat don't have decent weap, why not use your OP noob rod? For PVP just use a bow or a onehander+whatever.

MP's should be evasion setups in general, no? their offense comes from nukes/pets. I have zero problems on my 110 MP.

Nerf DOF? really? because MA's are OP? I can't say I really find this.

nanites at 201+ are you serious? a trader is going to spat in seconds at 150+ without nanites. When I play vs trader with my high AR keeper, even while 2x nanite drained and 136 proc drained, and corporate protection, I'm still landing hits, not very many mind you, but still doing damage.

You remove nanites from TL5 and you just send all TL5 traders to the grave.

I have to say, there's a few fixes I've already planned out which could be implimented today; so simple.

- Neleb Rod; remove nanodrain Proc in PvP (Target must be Monster) to stop whining, even though it's quite hard to make Neleb better than alternatives (Frosty/Styg OD it, FFBs OD it if you don't have melee init)
- Upgrade OMHH to a 50% heal with a 2min lockout (Rename it too); I assume OP was whining about JAME Soldiers.
- AAD Drains should have a >200 AAD check.
- Make the Nanite drains not drain AR until level 101 (Target > Level 100 Add all Off -150)
- Make Malaise add AAO. Just for the hell of it. Maybe +500 for the last one. Slows it down, makes it hit harder.
- DoF and Limber are fine, but many profs could use a nano attack (Shades need a lower SHD, give Advies a no-morph nuke, swap Program Override for a Snare DoT, give Enfos a 2 handed weapon procline,
- Make cocoon a rapidly refreshing lower thing (2k every 5 seconds rather than 10k for 25); meaning that one Full Auto won't vapourise it.
- Gief MPs better pets already. Hell, give the +meager damage pet buff a massive boost for the higher levels (I'm talking, Rihwen needs more damage than Widowmaker)

[Psikie]

The 30s duration is makes sense in pvp but at the same time is very stupid in pvm.
My conclusion is that some nanos/perks should have different effect in pvp and pvm, however I doubt if it is possible to implement

I agree with this.

Implement the AS change, remove Trololol pistol from the game. I will make a custom made diploma for worst weapon implemented ever.

Take away the AS and there will be more diverse setups following that change.

I agree with this. BUT without AS/Sneak there are some fights that would never end without a lucky string of stuns like vs doctors. Removing AS from pvp would mean a need for pvp heals to be toned down also.

I've been suggesting they do this with one mechanic. FC could throw the entire game into a blender with ONE mechanic: Parry. Adding Parry mechanic to game would literally throw the entire, the ENTIRE balance of the game into a serious case of "WTF". Not one person day after patch could tell you who is OP anymore. In one mechanic, keepers might go from 2nd or 3rd worst to best. Ranged advies might go from way OP'd to middle of the pack. melee advies might go from middle of the pack to WTF OP'd.

Just curious on how parry would work, - would it be a chance to block an attack similar to engie spec blockers, would it work only vs melee or also vs ranged.

Also riposte, would that work as reflect dmg or more like a chance for dmg shield or an actual full dmg extra attack, mechanics wise- not description wise?

[McKnuckleSamwich]

Just curious on how parry would work, - would it be a chance to block an attack similar to engie spec blockers, would it work only vs melee or also vs ranged.

Also riposte, would that work as reflect dmg or more like a chance for dmg shield or an actual full dmg extra attack, mechanics wise- not description wise?

Well, that's part of the mystery!

There was a post some time ago about it, Means wrote it I think.

Basically it worked something like this:

skill 0 100 - no action
skill 101-1000 action opens (like backstab), The action has a recharge capped at 30 seconds (need something like 1500 skill to cap recharge), and otherwise scales linearly up to 2 minutes or whatever.

ON USE: When the parry skill is activated, the user has a chance to avoid the next special attack (melee or ranged) for the next 10 seconds.

[So, say from 101-1000 skill, chance of parrying any special attack is max(0.3, min(1000,skill)/10) (so varying between 30% and 100% at 1k skill.

Then, at 1001 skill, the next chance opens in which case you can now parry 2 specials, first special is 100% to parry, second special is
max(0.2, min(1000,skill-1000)/10)
So starting at 10% and goes up to 100% at 2k skill.

then, at 2k, same deal:
first two specials are parried (100% chance), and the third is calculated at:
max(0.1, min(1000,skill-2000)/10)

So you've got a decreasing base chance at 1k/2k/3k and obviously you only get a short period in the recharge ie, 10s/30s maximum.

What it might do at endgame though, is provide some melee users that tiny bit of respite from AS spam that just crushes their HP.

The counter? lead with fling/burst I do this anyway to eat engie blockers... so not much different.

[Psikie]

So an action that would function like blockers...interesting.

[Pomidor]

it supposed to be only vs melee.

Riposte could turn attack on attacker.
Parry was supposed to be Prek Action, which opens depend on skill Parry, upon melee attack.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

When means wrote about it, he said it would function against ranged as well.

[Wyoming]

Too complicated for my taste.
I thought it was like, as parry scales, your % chance of blocking a special attack does, and only with those weapons. For example, I could go for a 300 Rapier or a COTE or SOTI or whatever and block melee specials with Parry, ranged with Riposte.
Y'know, 25 skill = 1% chance of block, finishing up with some big COTE Keeper with 3.5k AR and **** blocking everything that comes their way.

[Wyoming]

With Dimach and Backstab being exceptions, of course.

[Wyoming]

Thinking about it, that would work quite well. From what I can tell, Keepers are meant to be insanely hard to kill. This same principle would mean an MA Doctor would be viable in PvP, and MPs would no longer hide in warrens popping their little heads out.