It's a crossBOW

[CryptoNut]

/sarcasm on

Just give that particular weapon (crossbow) two sets of skills to use:

1.) Bow skill to load it since you clearly do not load gunpowder-cased bullets into a crossbow and instead load it with arrows... then draw back the bow and lock the ammunition into place.

2.) Rifle skill (100%) to fire it.

If you don't want to train the IP to fire the weapon's ammunition, simply load it with your bow skill and then hand it to an agent to fire it for you.

/sarcasm off

[LeeLunkwill]

Whatevery you say it is or not, to make it use rifle and bow is an NERF! That is the main problem with that change.

Its the bow every ma that use bow for alpha strike use.

[____________religion]

This does not bode well.

Sure, as some have noted, there are other bows out there.

However, being an SMG wielding crat I know that there are only a couple of good SMGs out there currently. The rest are junk.

So...if the took the best couple of SMGs and changed the requirements on them (say from SMG to SMG/Energy or SMG/Assault Rifle or SMG/Energy/Assault Rifle) then I would be a bit tweaked.

Doing this to them does a couple of things:
-It now requires them to spend more IP just to use the weapon that they have been using for quite a while.
-Their overall attack rating will be lowered (thus lowering their damage bonuses from skill)

They don't deserve this and neither would you if they changed the best weapons for whatever skills you use.

On another note: Why put profession restrictions on weapons when instead they could add more crazy, varied weapons like this (add, not change) to promote use by intended classes.
You want a soldier weapon?
Make a weapon that uses 3+ core skills for attack rating determination (assault rifle, smg, rifle, ranged energy) and see just how many other professions can actually keep their attack rating high enough for the higher quality weapons to be worth using for anyone but a soldier.

Anywise, I know I would be tweaked if I was a bow user...and I know that they have now done this to one weapon...and I could be next on the list.

-Religion

[____________Farraday]

I was waiting for someone to get there:

You're playing a game, where you are pretending to be a person who isn't even human, on the other side of the galaxy, twenty-eight THOUSAND years in the future... where "Death Isn't Fatal™" and you can teleport yourself across the globe.. you can even turn yourself into an electronic signal and insert yourself into a computer network that spans the planet for easy travel...

and you're applying modern day logic. Something about that just strikes me as hilarious.

And I'm sorry, but being a "suthna" who knows his way around more than his fair share of weaponry myself (because this is obviously the qualification that you use to invalidate any other argument tossed at you), firing a Cross-Bow is in no way similar to firing a Bow. If anything, it is akin to firing a rifle. Maybe not quite as powerful as a 30.06, but the skills needed to fire both are the same.

Edit: As an aside, something I just happened to think of later - According to your logic (A Crossbow fires a Quarrel, or Bolt, and not an explosive shell, therefore it can not use the same skill to operate said machinery -yes, I know that was wordy-), then any manner of air powered weapons. B.B., Pellet Gun, .. even Paintball Guns require no "rifle" skill at all to fire.. and I think that even as a "southerner" you can agree that isn't the case.

[Razzitazz]

Originally posted by Enri
Hm, it seems pretty simple to me, but allow me to explain.

Picture a rifle, say your standard bolt-action sniper rifle. Firing this requires one to place the stock against your shoulder and use the sights accordingly.

Now, take this bolt action rifle, and add a little bow across it... you now simply have a rifle that shoots arrows: You place it against your shoulder and use the sights accordingly. The only difference here is that you need to compensate for the flight path of an arrow vs. a bullet (hence 33% bow)

A bow fires completely different, as you are required to keep your off-hand steady without any shoulder brace, and keep it steady as you pull back and release the arrow instead of squeezing a trigger.

The skill use has nothing to do with ammunition; you have my guarantee that I could fire a rifle loaded with tracers or blanks just as compentently as one with regular ammunition. Again, its not how the weapon looks, its how you fire it.

I think the real issue here is that certain weapons were *taken* from a profession. Sad, yes, but this may not be the best approach.

That was a very well-written explanation that pretty much sums up the way it was obviously decided. Well done =)

[Warfang]

Originally posted by religion

On another note: Why put profession restrictions on weapons when instead they could add more crazy, varied weapons like this (add, not change) to promote use by intended classes.
You want a soldier weapon?
Make a weapon that uses 3+ core skills for attack rating determination (assault rifle, smg, rifle, ranged energy) and see just how many other professions can actually keep their attack rating high enough for the higher quality weapons to be worth using for anyone but a soldier.

How about making all SMGs fixer only?
Profession only weapon only decreases the variaty of the game, do not put prof only weapons except some balancing ones.

[Intenseheat]

Seeing as how the game takes place some odd 30,000 years in the future, surely bows and crossbows would've undergone some drastic changes? I am a regular attendee of my local Renaissance festival, and I have fired both archaic and modern versions of both the bow and crossbow. As for a rifle, I have not, merely a shotgun, though I would gather the firing methods would be similar save for the accuracy and range. A medeival bow, being made of wood, presents many differences from the traditional plastic/metal bows today, mainly being considerably heavier (An English longbow could weigh as much as 30 pounds, or 12 or so kilos) and having a much shorter range. The crossbows were also made of wood, not metal. The difference mainly being that the arrows were metal. Once again, traditional medeival crossbows were heavier than today's. Their lock was less dependable, and their range was not much more than 30 meters until the bow part was changed to metal. That shows the evolution of the two weapons over 1000 or so years (700-800 for the crossbow). Multiply that by 30. Now..

The difference between crossbow and bow is quite obvious I would assume to those who claim to be experienced with both weapons. The bow, one must pull and hold. This is pretty hard, as you may have to hold the bow for 20 or more seconds waiting for a good shot. This creates a vibration that any muscle makes when fully exerted for a measurable length of time, making it harder to aim. A crossbow, one pulls (though now most are automatic) and locks. This is not hard. There is no vibration created by tense muscles. Aiming is easier. Comparable to a rifle. Now if you want to go on the basis of gunpowder... what about compressed gas rifles? Those seem pretty close to a crossbow in the fact that a force is stored and trying very hard to break out, much as the tension on a bowstring in a crossbow. A crossbow is closer to a rifle than a bow as far as FIRING SKILLS. If you're going by the physical makeup, then I guess not. But the weapon in question is not 66% a rifle, and 33% a bow. The skills required are 66% rifle and 33% bow. This should (hopefully) end this discussion by an apparently poorly educated southerner (though I myself am from New Orleans)

I am now realizing I simply restated what Enri said for the most part. Well, good job Enri

[____________Kikamiro]

The change was made so that agents could be better bow wielder's as they aren't such a great prof now and have a limited selectionf or viable weaponry. Frankly I don't blame them one bit. MA's have it sweet enough as it is, they shouldn't be nerfed by any means but for gods sake if helping fix up the agent's ability to use a weapon takes a bit away from MA's ability to use a bow on top of their RIvers 6 / mad critting fists / claws/ parry stavesm then so bloody be it. Stop whining.

[________________Enri]

Originally posted by Intenseheat
I am now realizing I simply restated what Enri said for the most part. Well, good job Enri

May as well, always helps to have someone more articulate than myself back me up. Thanks.

[speardancer2]

My .02 creds as someone who has used all 3.

Bow != crossbow != rifle.

If one really wants to be picky about skills, a crossbow should be it's own skill. While the basic way you discharge the weapon is simular to a rifle, the adjustments you have to make to your aim is more in line with a bow. It's just easier, because you're not fighting the pull of the bow, there's a mechanical device doing that for you.

I like the 66% rifle, 33% bow idea, since it's not likely to happen that a new skill will just get added.

But to the core issue, I also think it's lousy that Funcom changed a weapon's requirements at this point. They made all the crossbows use the bow skill, and now they're changing in mid stream, changing this weapon to use the rifle skill.

Big thumbs down there, Funcom. You already made your call where you had crossbows slotted in the skill tree, bad form to change it this late in the game.

[Razzitazz]

Enri = r0xxor =)

Free nanoprogramming if you need it Send me a tell.

I do understand both sides of this though. Sorry for all the unhappy MA crossbow users .

[eaze]

Originally posted by Fistofpaper
To use your definition of whether it is a crossRIFLE, the SA Home Defender is not a shotgun, it's a pistol, as you hold it as such.

You seem to be pretty ignorante, or stupid, I dont know which, but simply the fact that you have the nerves to whine about MAs after all the uber improvements you got, will give you NO jusitifaction for these claims.

However, the firing/wielding ways of a crossbow is indeed more similar to a rifle than it is to a bow. The skills can obviously not be even compared, since a bow is genenrally both "Loaded" and triggered by simple hand functions, where as a crossbow might be loaded like a bow (usually it isn't), but fired indeed in the same way as a rifle.

[Shadowzar]

Did the MA's just get a Ultra Powerful MA only bow ??????http://v020u46eff.maximumasp.com/AOD...sp?AOID=165057 And your whinning about the reet ??? Well FC give MP's that uber bow and change the reet to MA only if that what they want.

I use the reet right now..not for range or pvp..its my main weapon. I like the change, because the 200 adds xp, armour, and dodge range skilz ! http://v020u46eff.maximumasp.com/AOD...sp?AOID=125061 Do what I did and stop Flaming.

Goto shop ---> Take out that eye and wrist implants ---->buy long range weapontry ql 200 clusters ------->build ------>impalnt in. ------>add IP to rifle ------->get on with life.

And by the way, I compete in it. A bow and a crossbow is NONTHING alike. Hmmm maybe you need to really learn how to use the two before u start calling people half witted....just a thought....

Edit paste the wrong one there but even at 120 it ultra powerful..just take a look at the 200 !

[________tavumebottes]

Pow bow has damages increased an equip time decreased and is available in mission reward and is easily sefequipable even the higher QL
isn t a good option now ?

[secondkenlon]

You can mission for the Pow now?

Used to be boss loot only I thought. (Wish I hadn't sold the one I had, after this change it would be worth BANK.)