Mongo Rage

[Obtena]

you need as pistol for as without sacrifices.

That's why AS pistol is needed ingame. No one should have to 'sacrifice' to be competitive with others in PVP. I don't see agents 'sacrificing' to get a good AS rifle or a soldier 'sacrificing' to get good ARifles for PVP. On the flip side, some professions are catered to for their PVP weapons ... AS shotgun on trader for instance ... The idea that pistol users should 'sacrifice' something to get a competitive PVP pistol with AS is stupid.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

That's why AS pistol is needed ingame. No one should have to 'sacrifice' to be competitive with others in PVP. I don't see agents 'sacrificing' to get a good AS rifle or a soldier 'sacrificing' to get good ARifles for PVP. On the flip side, some professions are catered to for their PVP weapons ... AS shotgun on trader for instance ... The idea that pistol users should 'sacrifice' something to get a competitive PVP pistol with AS is stupid.

The idea that you can "snipe" with a pistol is stupid.

[Gatester]

The idea that you can "snipe" with a pistol is stupid.

Just think of it as a one-handed rifle.

That and any weapon which uses something like lasers or phasers is technically a sniper weapon.



Also, can a doctor without AS even kill an enforcer? (I am assuming only enforcers with functional minds being considered here)

[McKnuckleSamwich]

Also, can a doctor without AS even kill an enforcer? (I am assuming only enforcers with functional minds being considered here)

I have a doc that's in full PVM setup:

full alphas, enhanced jathos, RH/LH, bastion armour.

I'm only missing some research, specifically the one that gives the proc dot.

I could do some testing, but my feeling is that the time it would take would provide the enf with enough chances at stun alphas that functionally, the doc would never stand a chance.

mm I'm missing malp on doc tho.

Edit: when I was nearing "endgame" PVM setup on doc I could pump out some pretty decent DPS. if you halved that, you might hit about 70k PVP DPM, and while that's optimistic, and not accounting for time spent healing etc, you might be able to wear down an enf over one cycle of BR if you used a poison damage generation device.

[Dumonde]

Also, can a doctor without AS even kill an enforcer? (I am assuming only enforcers with functional minds being considered here)

You cant.

Since MALP and Dots are almost totally useless (say hello to high NR/Rage), you wont kill any even average Enforcer. Even with AS, a good playing one is a very hard nut. Sure, they are doable, but this depends on:

- having luck (or not)
- timing the FM correctly
- able to land your perks (and thats were MR, original thread theme works for quite good)
- if the enforcer perked FR or not
- if your AS are continuously high

Regular hits wont even dent Enforcer.

I have a doc that's in full PVM setup:

full alphas, enhanced jathos, RH/LH, bastion armour.

I'm only missing some research, specifically the one that gives the proc dot.

I could do some testing, but my feeling is that the time it would take would provide the enf with enough chances at stun alphas that functionally, the doc would never stand a chance.

mm I'm missing malp on doc tho.

Edit: when I was nearing "endgame" PVM setup on doc I could pump out some pretty decent DPS. if you halved that, you might hit about 70k PVP DPM, and while that's optimistic, and not accounting for time spent healing etc, you might be able to wear down an enf over one cycle of BR if you used a poison damage generation device.

Please note that you wont be able to do... "dps" on a enforcer without a decent ammount of AI armor and related items, perks will be resisted. Thats were MR comes handy. PVM setup might be funny in PVM, but its another talk while encountering decent oponents in PVP. But thats again a thing of your theories and the reality. LR/RH? Any player will be laughing about these in a duel. High dot C ? Seriously... And yes, you can forget MALP too for the following reason / decision you have to make:

Am I using PVM (nanoskills granting) Armor with as much NCR as possible ? If yes, you will be able to land MALP a bit more but you wont hit or perk sufficiently.
Am I using PVP (AR/HP/AS granting) Armor? If yes, you might be able to perk the enforcer and land nice AS from time to time. But MALP will be almost useless and the nano pool will make some trouble in a short time. Dont forget that you have to heal your as.s out - if you encounter a dangerous one.

That's why AS pistol is needed ingame. No one should have to 'sacrifice' to be competitive with others in PVP. I don't see agents 'sacrificing' to get a good AS rifle or a soldier 'sacrificing' to get good ARifles for PVP. On the flip side, some professions are catered to for their PVP weapons ... AS shotgun on trader for instance ... The idea that pistol users should 'sacrifice' something to get a competitive PVP pistol with AS is stupid.

True.

[Hassler]

Also, can a doctor without AS even kill an enforcer? (I am assuming only enforcers with functional minds being considered here)

a doctor without AS cant kill fixers/traders/shades/crats in a duel either

[Contra]

The idea that you can "snipe" with a pistol is stupid.

https://www.google.ro/search?q=scope...w=1366&bih=677

[Dumonde]

a doctor without AS cant kill fixers/traders/shades/crats in a duel either

.. Neither Soldier, Keeper, NTs, MPs, Agents, MAs and other docs.

[Hassler]

.. Neither Soldier, Keeper, NTs, MPs, Agents, MAs and other docs.

keeper and solds are doable. mas in time too but the problem is that you need motr and/or cloak to survive the alpha and it will be hard to kill them in time until all items for a second alpha are ready again. nr1/nr2 agent will be impossible too but nts should be doable(well which nt does duel a doc anyway)

[Dumonde]

keeper and solds are doable. mas in time too but the problem is that you need motr and/or cloak to survive the alpha and it will be hard to kill them in time until all items for a second alpha are ready again. nr1/nr2 agent will be impossible too but nts should be doable(well which nt does duel a doc anyway)

You cant kill my soldier neither my NT without using AS. And I do duels vs. Docs and yes, the non-AS docs cant do any harm. How should they. Good luck vs. 3,8k NR.

You will never ever kill Shuyin as a Doc without AS. Never.

[Obtena]

The idea that you can "snipe" with a pistol is stupid.

Somehow, I don't think what's 'realistic' for you limits the development of an online game that takes place 20K years in the future. As a ranged, competitive PVP pistol, it's perfectly reasonable for it to 'snipe'.

[Gatester]

Rage removing DoTs pretty much eliminates doc DPS in a duel anyways, spamming Malp just seems like a bad idea.


Also for doc vs NT, while I am sure it is different at 220 I know that at 200 a doctor could not actually kill my NT if I did not want it to. My mitigation was stopping regulars that might actually land, my NR was too high for them to consistently land anything on me, and my damage was too substantial for them to spend more than a cast or two in between heals to risk anything else. Even defensive focus you could annihilate a doctor if you used the NR2 and the corresponding perkline (can't remember the name but put some heavy debuffs on a doctor).

[Xootch]

this thread has turned into something awfully ridiculous. waiting for ashton kutcher to pop in and scream punked. seriously, you think support profs have a right to an agent as? you justified as pistol because you used to use bows but as pistol is better? what kind of argument is that? sorry, i can even follow the argument, let alone the points you're trying to make.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

Pistol = light arms

Pistol's intended purpose is to hit a target in close range.

By definition, close range should mean that:

1. you don't need more than a half second to aim your weapon
2. the closer a target is to the point of firing, the larger the target is eliminating the need for "aiming" and subsequently "sniping"
3. pistols do not fire a high powered projectile. They fire a low power projectile to eliminate recoil
4. Following from 3, if the projectile is low powered, body armour will substantially reduce target damage
5. following from 4, if the target has body armour, and you're not firing a high powered projectile, how the F*CK do you intend to snipe?
6. and Finally, how in hell would a "snipe" regardless of how well "aimed" it is, do any more damage to a target than a standard shot which is not "aimed", "sniped"?

LOL, Obtena.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

Actually, the way doctors *should* be killing people is using infections.

A doctor should have nearly zero "combat skills" and substantial healing skills (as they do), but, the main method of "doing damage" should be from introducing toxins to the opponent.

And, then simultaneously reducing the opponents capability to DO healing.

For example:

a doc should be able to:
1. eliminate the EFFECT of max HP buffs ie. reduce efficacy
2. eliminate ALL natural healing (ie. set HD to zero - or even negative)
3. debuff first aid and treatment to a fraction of it's original value
4. Introduce infections (via implanting or convincing the opponent of poor practice)... the infection should do zero damage initially, but increase in damage in an accelerating rate until the opponent is consumed in entirety

This way, a doctor doesn't "fight" in the same method as one would expect: the doctor introduces an infection, and then must only survive until the opponent is consumed. To help the infection along, the doctor should focus on removing or eliminating those things that will keep the opponent alive (eg, max health buffs, healing efficacy, and natural healing, and keeping his first aid debuffed).

Then, eventually the opponent is consumed, but realistically, during that time the opponent can try to kill the doctor.

That's the way doctors SHOULD be built.

And obviously the infection strength should be inversely proportional, or the effect should be inversely proportional to the BD of the target, so, low HP MA's/fixers should get an ass whooping by doc's quickly, but enforcers, keepers and soldiers should be much more difficult to kill.

[Dumonde]

Now thats something I agree with you somehow, I like the idea.

Again, Xootch did not read neither think about any post I / we did. Obviously. Again, no one here here "screamed" for the ability to deal AS like an Agent.

Please do me a favor, go around your house, take some fresh air (might help), go back inside, read it all again (AND understand it) and then you will see that the most parts of your "counters" on my posts are massively exaggerated - besides the fact that they are lacking any mentionable experience (no good, neither bad) regarding the issues we Docs have to fight with.

It was expressed very good by our current Doctors Professional, Kazeran previously:

I believe its less about being a "potent" killer and more about having a reliable way to kill someone, which without AS, doesn't really exist for a doc.

[Gatester]

Lol at AS pistol giving everyone "agent aimed shots".

The list of people to take seriously dwindles constantly.

[Obtena]

Pistol = light arms ...

I stopped right there ... I'm not going to debate with you what 'pistol' means. That would be stupid ... just the like the idea that devs break our Brewster's to ensure their concepts in a SCI FI game are 'realistic'.

[RedWatr]

if we're going to get nasty about it, I propose that "Aimed Shot" needs to be replaced with "Head Shot" or "Lethal Shot", that or require person with said AS weapon to run minimum of 30m back before they can take a shot.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

if we're going to get nasty about it, I propose that "Aimed Shot" needs to be replaced with "Head Shot" or "Lethal Shot", that or require person with said AS weapon to run minimum of 30m back before they can take a shot.

Heck, just adding a 1-3 second interruptible cast time would fix the whole damn thing.

I have no problem with "AIMED" shots, as long as there's some goddam AIMING involved.

what drives me bonkers is the fact that people wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwowwwwwwwwo

and nowadays, you don't even have to stop moving to queue the action, you only need to stop moving for a fraction of a second to allow the action to occur.

Which, actually means that you can make the action while running, but the trigger is only pulled (mechanic is activated) in the hairbredth of stopped motion.

If an aimed shot actually required:

1. to be facing the target
2. to be greater than 3m away from the target
3. backpedalling (running backwards) had RS/2
4. to be stopped moving for 1 second, otherwise the action is unavailable
5. you must be in "attacking" stance (ie. pressed q)

I'd be happy. Those are totally reasonable requisites for aiming... it takes 1s to allow the action to be "ready", it takes 0 time to aim it, considering the position of the pistol in the hand, it's basically at arms length once in the fighting position.

This would meant you couldn't run away from the target at full runspeed, and shoot while not even facing them, and to actually "AIM" you'd need to be more than 3m away which would give you a reasonable amount of distance to see the locations of the body you want to hit.