GA armour from docs point of view

[_____________Punkbum]

Originally posted by wefix
And on the topic of GA4, it is not invincible. In a lot of cases it is, but some normal mobs get through, and you need to run or die. Then there are Aces. I fought just 1 and he killed me easily. He was at least 95% health when I died. It was a little disappointing. Can anyone solo Aces? This was a ql250 mission, are the Aces in there more powerful maybe - he whipped me so bad I never even tried again.

lvl 250 aces can only be killed by Uber teams with preferably 2 lvl190+ docs and a 10k HP enforcer with rrfe. They also have a couple of 100k HP maybe more than a mil, thats why noone does lvl 210+ missions.

[____________Anikitos]

*************
Then there are Aces. I fought just 1 and he killed me easily. He was at least 95% health when I died. It was a little disappointing. Can anyone solo Aces? This was a ql250 mission, are the Aces in there more powerful maybe - he whipped me so bad I never even tried again.
*************
This put me in a ROFL state for 15 minues....

Oh the insanity! Poor smurf could not solo a super ace in a ql250 mission.
It was a little disappointing?
What lvl are you by the way.
You mean you are supposed to solo this mobs?
Maybe fixers should get a boost.....bah.

[__________THEDEACON!]

Originally posted by Fenris
Its not the armor its the tactics. I promise you it is easy to get killed in grid armor. The fixer probably wasn't taking as much damage because he wasn't getting as much aggro. You see fixers are very strong defensively but very weak offensively. Also the very first time your little fixer buddy meets a high level trader/MP/NT that hits him with a debuff (first 2) or nuke (last) he will be messaging you from reclaim. I don't know why I am even bothering to respond in a half way civil manner to a nerf thread. This is exactly the sort of thing that gets people put on ignore permanently and a 6 page flamefest all to elaborate on what a jackhole you are for suggesting another g*dd*mn nerf. Please, don't ever, ever ask for a nerf again. Its a very good way to earn hate.


Surprisingly to most people, the most powerful fixers I know do NOT wear Grid Armor. Their characters are much more well rounded and balanced for not having that IP sinkhole called matter creation. Pelple have a misconception about Grid armor and its uberness. The truth is that characters who dont use it dont have to worry about some of the things that I do. Characters that dont use it CAN be just as evasive as characters in it. Try a little experiment. Title cap your evades. Put on a fast gun. Slide your aggro to full defense. TADAA you are a fixer except your gun is probably better. I have taken on fixers that are not GA wearers that were my same level. They followed my advice above and guess what? I missed them as much as they missed me. Whats more if they had been a nuking/debuffing class I would have been truly screwed since they could have removed what little armor I have. Characters with guns that have specials tear through my armor like an american president through an interns dress.

My point exactly. Don't like GA? Don't duel a GA fixer. But were I a gas fixer, I'd be terrified to walk into mass pvp. They have a big glaring hole in that their armor and defensive boosts can be completely removed by one class, SEVERELY crippled by two classes and minorly crippled by NTs. Yeah, i'm uberly jealous over the fact that mobs miss them more than they'll ever miss me, but like he said, fixers are semi-weak offensively and when I play as MA, the fixer may wish to pull to show off his uber grid armor, but I know who is going to get the aggro in the end.

GA is fine imho. Yeah, many classes will suck against it and I feel for you there, but many classes will also suck against trader drains, nano shutdown, dominate, corona/crown of frost, mind quake, rapid palsey, bullets, arrows, dirty looks and rabid leets. Let's nerf all those too!

There's been too many nerfs and not enough boosts in this game and I think that's something all of us can agree on. Instead of making every class uber, the past year and a half has been an effort to make every class suck equally.

[Fekal]

nerf GA fixers....

Nerf yalm's
Nerf heals
Nerf Evacs
Nerf Mongo's
NERF EVERYTHING!

Happy now?

I'm not, I've been playing fixer since day one, and I did not cry
when we were "nomber one gimp of the all", but I'm satisefied
thart I'm being able to solo 50% missions at lvl 95 without have to do the "Zone in and out routine" all the time.
I do not have GA, I'm not looking for GA, I dont envy those who have GA.
Since Fixer are the flavour of the month, you (the starter of this thread) Have seen too much smurf's that been beating your ass
around. Thats no reason too cry NERF, GA is a very rare drop and
vary few "real" fixer get the chance to wear it. My point of view is that many main's that found GA disk's, has started an alt to try out the Uber'nes as being as Fixer with GA. This "News" is comming to and end soon because all the high lvl's with Fixer Alt's will soon become bored and jump to next flavour proffesion of the month.

Yeah I'm drunk and pissed off.
but who aint drunk at a Friday evening after a weeks of work?

Fekal (one happy Fixer)

as I said I'm drunk and my No:1 language is not english, bare with me........

[Allbronz]

Not bad at all for being drunk and for not having English as your first language

You made complete sense to me

So what was this thread about again?

[Phinger]

Hmm I played a Nt al the way thru to 200.
I am use to being hit a lot, and I mean a lot and bar nullity and calm NT would be a dead class.

But I enjoy him....he is an extreme challange to play well. And when teams see a great Nt in action THEY LOVE THEM.

But I found a GA2 disk. So made a Fixer. Raced him up to 69 and got him into GA2.

Wow I was impressed. Not being hit. As someone mentioned though I sacrificed quiet a bit in a few areas to wear this. But that argument is a little flawed because you will balance out in the end. So saying oh I wont wear GA because I am gimping my fixer is a load of crap.

I have seen GA in action, with Hots running its , well once you had it on your fixer once....you will never go back. PERIOD. The only fixer who says they wont wear GA are ones who are one just cant up and say they wont pay the outrageous credits for it. We know and I know thats the real reason. Its a good reason its competely off the scale now. But dont stand on your soap box and preach who you wont be caught in a blue suit.I mean GA1 for 60 million credits and is only useful till what late 80s? Hell I made 69 in less than a weeks play and was up into GA2.

There is more than enough IP in the end. I know because my weapon and evades skills on my Nt were dark blue but I still could pump ip into them and max them out. IP aint a problem.

Finally as for those that say it should be nerfed havent played in a GA suit. As just as its incredibly powerful.......ITS ALSO EXTREMELY VUNERABLE. I was cruising in a mission and everyteam mate was saying my god your a "GOD"......then I ran into a seasoned Dealer(trader mob) AND OMG-DEBUFFED.... I wasnt wearing anything he creamed me kicked my ass back to reclaim so god damn fast. I then reviewed the GA and thought hell this is great in a bunch of places....and in some situations YOU WILL JUST GET OWNED.

So stop the nerf crap. Fixers you will luve it and for those that cant afford I hope it lands in your lap one day and REALLY ENJOY IT! FOR FREE! Its a class distinction nano that you should be proud to find. And for the players that are jealous of it....yep I am jealous of it considering my life as a NT I should be painted black and blue I been hit so many times......BUt Funcom did a great job on it....for just as it gives power so can it put the user in huge jepoardy in any debuff situation.

Phinger

[______________Ylisar]

yea but still, how much chance would you NT stand debuffed?

[Sallust]

Comparing a debuffed fixer to a debuffed NT is an awful comparison.

Better comparison is the difference between a debuffed GA wearing fixer and a debuffed non-GA wearing fixer.

The non-GA wearing fixer still has is armor (it doesn't OE off of him) and not unlikely a better attack rating because he has more IP available before we start getting to those unsightly high level IP expenditures.

As a MP in PvP I can tell you that Nanoshutdown doesn't do much to the non-GA waring fixer but puts the GA fixer in a world of hurt. With luck even a simple Dominate or Unmake will drop you down into OE range.

So I don't consider it unbalanced because it has such glaring weaknesses. Grid Evac in the middle of combat is the only annoying part one I think the fixer has in his arsenal now (pre-fix I wouldn't have considered it a problem).

[Coldstrike]

Er.. Can people stop spreading false information about how vulnerable a GA fixer is to debuffs? It makes no sense to bring this up unless you are more vulnerable than others to theese debuffs, and you aren't.

Being debuffed with Nano Shutdown by a MP will "cripple" a GA fixer. But it will also cripple about 50% of the professions in the game. You think for instance a doc is gonna survive so much longer than you with a nano shutdown on him?

Being hit with drains from a trader will put the fixer at a great disadvantage. It will have the exact same effect on 100% of the professions in the game.

I'm sick of seeing how this is so much more devastating to a fixer than anyone else. It applies to every profession, not just fixers, and can therefore not be called a drawback. The GA IV even adds +300 Nano Resist, so you are *less* vulnerable to theese debuffs than any other profession except enforcers.

The only weak point of GA is the loss of about 1500 AC and 1k hp compared to a player wearing De Cranums armor (assuming the GA fixer puts on a primus skinchip or something). Oh, and the loss of 7% reflect from bracers.

[methodma]

Hmmmm...

You wanna analize a prof check out all the aspects. I cant believe I even saw a responce agreeing with the idea of nerfing GA. I hope they keep it in the game because the way it is now, a GA fixer is my first PvP target. At level 130 a level 170 fixer tried to gank me in MMD. The fight lasted for over 5 minutes ending up with him killing me only by rooting me running when I had him down to 10% health. When he came back he landing a hard alpha and eventually was able to take me down, thats with a 50 level difference. With the push of one button I turn a GA fixer into a nekkid d00d with a SMG. All professions have vulnerabilities. Equally all professions can take someone else down with ease. There may be some imbalance between classes but this is half of what f**ks up AO in the first place, some moron sees half of a classes performance and realizes they cant do that and screams NERF.


--------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah...sorry Im not a forums junkie no tag here. ;p

[Phinger]

Originally posted by Ylisar
yea but still, how much chance would you NT stand debuffed?

Umm does fine at 200 Apprentice.....and debuffed. With a mochams MC I have 1138 Matter creation? Think a trader debuff going to affect my nukes much? Not likely. and finally whats your point? I was saying nerfing GA should not happen...its vunerable just as a lot of other classes are. Guys who wear GA are vunerable and not impervoius.



Phinger

[_______________wefix]

This reply is for Anikitos.

What I was saying when I said I was a little disappointed was not that I should be able to kill him, just that I thought there would be a fight, and I had a chance.

You asked my level - 169. And at that level only Aces are dark red. And as I mentioned I was not aware that Aces had levels so I did not know this guy was a god. Our teams have killed many Aces, so I knew they weren't impossible. And I couldn't even HIT him, so I was disappointed.

High level fixers (120+) can solo red mobs, including bosses. Not because they are uber, but because they have a combination of nanos that can be used to make it imposssible for the mob to win. Namely HOTs and root/snares. It takes forever to kill the mob though cause fixer damage is so low, and it can be a lot of work.

Your jealously toward fixers is misguided. For fast leveling or soloing, high damage is an advantage. So what if you can't solo a ql200 boss, you don't need to. The game is a balance between damage and defense, and fixers are defensive. They got run speed, evades, roots, snares, evacs, and GA. This means they can usually not die. However, you don't get anything for not dying! You won't die if you just stay in the cities and don't fight. This game is based on KILLING, and to kill you need damage.

As for fixers getting a boost, I was fine with my fixer before the fixer love, except that teams were aware that fixers are low damage and would not take me. I was over 112 before the patch. Since the patch, fixers are much closer to equity with other profs, and we have stuff that teams want, so we can team. So I think thing are good now and am not asking for a boost or a nerf.

[______________Ylisar]

A lvl 200 fixer with hacked NCU interface + maxed mm and mochies shouldn't get to much trouble either

[_______________wefix]

I soloed an Ace. Not a ql250 Ace, but an Ace

Now that I know Aces come in different levels I messed around some more with a ql250 Ace. I do not believe that even a level 200 fixer could kill him solo. I could barely hit him. He has infinite HP, he is immune to all nanos (even fixer cluster bullets), and he shoots through Grid Armor 4 pretty well for 1500-1800 a pop.

[kaghelion]

Originally posted by Coldstrike
Er.. Can people stop spreading false information about how vulnerable a GA fixer is to debuffs? It makes no sense to bring this up unless you are more vulnerable than others to theese debuffs, and you aren't.

Being debuffed with Nano Shutdown by a MP will "cripple" a GA fixer. But it will also cripple about 50% of the professions in the game. You think for instance a doc is gonna survive so much longer than you with a nano shutdown on him?

Being hit with drains from a trader will put the fixer at a great disadvantage. It will have the exact same effect on 100% of the professions in the game.

I'm sick of seeing how this is so much more devastating to a fixer than anyone else. It applies to every profession, not just fixers, and can therefore not be called a drawback. The GA IV even adds +300 Nano Resist, so you are *less* vulnerable to theese debuffs than any other profession except enforcers.

The only weak point of GA is the loss of about 1500 AC and 1k hp compared to a player wearing De Cranums armor (assuming the GA fixer puts on a primus skinchip or something). Oh, and the loss of 7% reflect from bracers.

Do you fight many lvl 150+ mobs naked?
I bet you don't!
That's what you are when your GA has been affected by nano-shutdown.
Loss off 1500 AC? Jeez what kind of armor do you have? A ql 100 suit has more then that.
(Yeah, you can use skinchips to avoid taking full damage from TWO damage types, but chances are you'll meet lots of mobs doing other types of damage)

Go into a backyard and kill some leets, that's the kind of damage you do to a GA wearing fixer hit by nano-shutdown.
So unless the doc is without armor he will last a lot longer even without nanos.

Anyone wearing normal armor is better off then a GA user being hit by ransack and/or deprive.
If I understand those nanos correctly they also add quite a lot to the trader (mobs) attack rating too.
High Attack rating also means higher chance for crits.

As for nano resist being overpowered:
Any profession can raise their nano resist, it's just that GA fixers are REALLY motivated to do so.
I haven't done so, but the mobs I'm normally fighting isn't using nano shutdown yet.
Nano resist work really well at full def, but really bad at full aggro.

No, nano shutdown is not overpowered in any way.
It's what makes life as a GA user a even more thrilling, together with specials, deprives, nukes and the occasional chain crit.

And as for those putting on a MkII at lvl 60.... Good job, you're supposed to wear that at lvl 100 or something.
Don't complain about GA, complain about those getting it on WAY before it's intended use.
(If I'd name one fixer nano, apart from NCU buff, that should have a level req, it would have to be grid armor.)

[____________Anikitos]

*************
Your jealously toward fixers is misguided.
*************
I have no issues with fixers...but i do have some issues with GA.

There is no point for me to duel a fixer now, my lvl with GA4.
And that crap about fixers not doing dmg...is crap.

I can show you a couple of fixers that DO good dmg, trust me.
When fixers say they dont do dmg that makes me laugh.

You dont do the kind of dmg I do or some other classes, but its not like i can hit you.

My solution to this? I dont duel fixers. There is no point to duel them. I cant kill them and they cant kill me.

Allthough i do admit that i have beaten GA4 fixers, but its hell.
A GA4 Fixer for me, makes no sense to duel.

I rather duel a lvl200 docs, i know i can beat them for a fact.

[Coldstrike]

Ok, let me try to rephrase..

A typically equipped level 146+ player has about 4k AC.

GA IV gives 2k to all acs.
Primus Skinchips gives 400-900 to all acs.

The AC difference is more or less 1000-1500.


A debuffed GA fixer will loose some of this AC, yes. At 0% effectiveness he will in fact loose the 2000 he gets from his GA.

But at the same time he will still have the 150 evades from the GA (I just checked this, and you don't loose the evade bonus when the GA goes into OE). He will have the 2 hots running. He will have the 1050-1100 attack rating with SMG.

What about a doc that is hit with nano shutdown? Only one Hot running, 800 attack rating, 2-300 less evades than the fixer? Is he in less trouble than the fixer when he is hit with shutdown?

Or the MP, crat, NT... All theese would have a lower attack rating, no hots, significantly lower evades, no nano capabilities, no pet.. Are they less vulnerable to nano shutdown than the fixer?

All I ever hear from fixers are "I'm soo dead if I'm hit with Nano Shutdown".. Well, *EVERYONE IS*, so it doesn't make any sense to list it as your big weakness. You got a 300 point nano resist buff in the GA, so if anything you are less vulnerable to this.

So against the *ONLY* weakness in GA, debuffs, you are more protected than any other profession except enforcers, and at the same time theese debuffs has the same or less impact on you than they have on pretty much every other class. And on top of this you are going around on forums trying to proclaim how balanced this is? Geeze..

[____________Anikitos]

I will have to agree with Coldstrike here.
This argument about NSD is not realistic.

NSD does hurt all proffesions in one way or another.
Some proffessions are better equiped to handle NSD.
Enforcer and Fixer are 2 of those classes due to their high NR.

As it stands now, there is no point to duel a fixer...i am speaking for myself. Even with almost 1300 AR from my part(challenger) its still.....bah forget it.

Do i want them nerfed? Nope, i hate the word...nerf.
Just stating the facts.

And if anyone tells me i need to work on my tactics....plz STFU.

I am lvl 182 Apprentice Enforcer that have dueled/tested more vs GA3,4 Fixers then any other Enforcer in the game.

I have had various results both negative and positive....so i am not complaining.

The evac nano does not bother me as it is a sign of weakness if used in arena, same as zoning.

[Beartwo]

But we would like to see some balance, dont bring up offensive problems for the fixer ... with the Manex dropping like mad as mission rewards that part of the problem is solved.

Enfs got their UBAH item this patch, Fixers have theirs... Now how much does it take for FC to see that other profs need something to bring them out of oblivion?

[Hollowbyte]

as if the fixers werent godlike enough already in 90% + of encounters now they have an additional godlike tool, mainly roots and snares. can someone please please please please show me a logical scrap of evidence that this is balanced ?

none of this "well we're vulnreable to 3.5 out of 100 people playing AO on an average due to debuffs (actually semi vulnreable since its only AC not the evade part which is mostly the problem)" or the "we used to suck" thing. i want to see some logical evidence, some explanation from FC about their way of thinking.

i went through this entire post, and i havent seen a single argument that would disprove my original post, if anything, this is even more imbalanced and screwed up with the new patch instead of being fixed.

GA needs to have its evade bonus reduced by about 75% or so and it needs to be affected by the debuffs as well as the AC. then i could see the things go in a better direction.